Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Was it? I'm not entirely sure about that. It was one single event that killed off most of the Eldar, I'm not sure it was bigger or more important.

I'll say it again though, anything regarding the Men of Iron is speculation. It was a highly destructive war, yes, but numbers or its scale is not known.

it WAS more important, because it created a god. Without the power of this god added to the others, the HH COULDN'T have happened.

It created a God, massively important, not disputing that. The second part though is conjecture. The Great Crusade couldn't have happened, but the Horus Heresy happened hundreds of years later and was its own singular event.

And numbers are also unknown for the HH, but the scale of the MOI was galactic. According to the note, they were used for each and every aspect of human life. They were the only military force commanded by humans other than the Pilots of ships and warmachines.

We know a lot more about the Horus Heresy. It was a war between literally two halves of the Imperium encompassing the entire extent of the Emperor's realms, which covered most of the galaxy.

Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Chaos Marines.
Space Wolves for being mentally challenged Jacob marines when they should be the aggressive, proud and hardy marines.
Grey Knights for being Mary Sue marines who fight and never lose rather than the heroic marines who fight and against all odds and sometimes prevail. They should be the greatest heroes of the Imperium for their bravery, instead they're simply unbeatable and that makes for boring characters.
Chaos Marines for being presented as the bad guys. Why did you rebel? Because we're evil. Why are you covered in spikes? For extra evilness! What are your motives? DESTRUCTION AND BLOOD AND BURNING AND BEING EVIL! They're just cartoon villains with no depth, no sanity and no point.

Oh, and I don't particularly like Orks. Tau's non-grimdarkness is what makes them grimdark: their intentions are galactic peace and unity yet they have no idea just how fethed up the universe is. But Orks non-grimdarkness is because they're the comedic relief.

@im2randomghgh

I'm curious why do you hate orks?

Void__Dragon wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:No not at all ( sarcasm ).
They just instrumented the greatest civil war in the galaxy, turning a son against his father.
They probably instrumented Fall of the Eldar to ( aldo we have no info about that ).

Don't be fulled, they are truly sentient. Our emotions are only like a fuel to them, and my sentience is not dependable on a food or water I am eating.
Why are different emotions affecting different Chaos God, who knows? But I can assure you that they are very intelligent beings who use every trickery in the book to sway mortal souls to their side.

But your opinion is your opinion and I will respect that.

The mortal races of the galaxy are so far below them that holding them morally responsible for killing them is like holding someone morally responsible for spraying disinfectent on a window. And frankly, the Emperor made it so pitifully easy for Chaos that it would almost be a crime for them not to of instigated the Horus Heresy. But beyond that, they didn't give much of a care about the galaxy before the Emperor threatened their power.

The Fall of the Eldar was the work of the Dark Eldar, no one else's.

Emotions created them, they are bound to them, shackled to them, defined by them. Nurgle and Tzeentch in particular are very far removed from mortal concepts of morality.

Brother Coa wrote:But the truth is, even dough Eldar are racist - Human hate is much more bigger than theirs...

Yet the Eldar are still more racist? Interesting...

Well the Emperor's plan for dealing with chaos was a good one, there was just no room for error. Instead of doing battle with them, which was guaranteed to cost trillions of lives, he attempted to starve them of faith and worship i.e. what they feed on to survive.

If Lorgar hadn't been a HUGE dick, the plan would have worked.

Rockiroad278 wrote:The Ecclesiarchy bothers me quite a bit. They make so many stupid and rash decisions that tend to reflect what I don't like about a lot of actual churches. Through millenia of zealous praise of the emperor, they've forgotten his original teachings and revere him as a God, which he himself rejected the idea of. Mix that in with xenophobia and heretical scares, and you get people like Inquisitor Karamazov.

But I guess without that you take away a large portion of the Imperium's rich lore, so I guess I should quit complaining.

Wouldn't the fact that sisters of battle get things like faith points (as do preachers et al) mean the emperor agrees with some of their decisions, You are right the emperor didn't like the idea of being called a god but he also knew humans are still simple minded (compared to his legion goodness) and when he fell into his pimp chair to chill out for a bit he realized that humanity needed something more then a corpse to lead them so he allows for ecclesiarchy to exist as they are truly the faithful.

yevix wrote:

Rockiroad278 wrote:The Ecclesiarchy bothers me quite a bit. They make so many stupid and rash decisions that tend to reflect what I don't like about a lot of actual churches. Through millenia of zealous praise of the emperor, they've forgotten his original teachings and revere him as a God, which he himself rejected the idea of. Mix that in with xenophobia and heretical scares, and you get people like Inquisitor Karamazov.

But I guess without that you take away a large portion of the Imperium's rich lore, so I guess I should quit complaining.

Wouldn't the fact that sisters of battle get things like faith points (as do preachers et al) mean the emperor agrees with some of their decisions, You are right the emperor didn't like the idea of being called a god but he also knew humans are still simple minded (compared to his legion goodness) and when he fell into his pimp chair to chill out for a bit he realized that humanity needed something more then a corpse to lead them so he allows for ecclesiarchy to exist as they are truly the faithful.

^ That.

Also, he was mortal during the GC, but he may actually be a deity now, since the prayers of humans feeds him in the warp.

Plus being able to make people into saints, and maybe being the cause of the perdus rift anomaly that allowed a not-quite-evil faction (Tau) to exist are pretty god-like things.

The Ecclesiarchy, they're too self righteous to be of actual good to anyone in the galaxy...

Dark Eldar. I hate them so much. They made Slaneesh and continue to act in all of their immoral ways as if nothing happened. They also all look like they came out of an S & M biker club. They have nice vehicles like the Razor Wing Fighter, but some of the models look too S & M. The sculpts are nice, but I just don't like the aesthetic look of the models.

Red Comet wrote:Dark Eldar. I hate them so much. They made Slaneesh and continue to act in all of their immoral ways as if nothing happened. They also all look like they came out of an S & M biker club. They have nice vehicles like the Razor Wing Fighter, but I just can't stand what they are and their models.

can't stand their models? First time I ever heard that about DE.

Also, they continue because if they stop indulging, Slaanesh eats their souls.

The old models were far more S and M

Especially the thong and assless chaps male bikers

The new models are 98% awesome to 2 % meh

TrollPie wrote:Oh, and I don't particularly like Orks. Tau's non-grimdarkness is what makes them grimdark: their intentions are galactic peace and unity yet they have no idea just how fethed up the universe is. But Orks non-grimdarkness is because they're the comedic relief.

To be fair, that's just from the Ork point of view. From the point of view of the Imperium, Orks are terrifying.

im2randomghgh wrote:Well the Emperor's plan for dealing with chaos was a good one, there was just no room for error. Instead of doing battle with them, which was guaranteed to cost trillions of lives, he attempted to starve them of faith and worship i.e. what they feed on to survive.

If Lorgar hadn't been a HUGE dick, the plan would have worked.

His plan for dealing with Chaos wasn't too bad, but the way he treated his Primarchs, among others, made it easy for Chaos to turn them against him.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Red Comet wrote:Dark Eldar. I hate them so much. They made Slaneesh and continue to act in all of their immoral ways as if nothing happened. They also all look like they came out of an S & M biker club. They have nice vehicles like the Razor Wing Fighter, but I just can't stand what they are and their models.

can't stand their models? First time I ever heard that about DE.

Also, they continue because if they stop indulging, Slaanesh eats their souls.

What I meant to say was that I dislike the look of the army. Sculpts are really nice for the models and I'm glad the DE players got that update the army needed it badly.

TrollPie wrote:Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Chaos Marines.
Space Wolves for being mentally challenged Jacob marines when they should be the aggressive, proud and hardy marines.
Grey Knights for being Mary Sue marines who fight and never lose rather than the heroic marines who fight and against all odds and sometimes prevail. They should be the greatest heroes of the Imperium for their bravery, instead they're simply unbeatable and that makes for boring characters.
Chaos Marines for being presented as the bad guys. Why did you rebel? Because we're evil. Why are you covered in spikes? For extra evilness! What are your motives? DESTRUCTION AND BLOOD AND BURNING AND BEING EVIL! They're just cartoon villains with no depth, no sanity and no point.

Oh, and I don't particularly like Orks. Tau's non-grimdarkness is what makes them grimdark: their intentions are galactic peace and unity yet they have no idea just how fethed up the universe is. But Orks non-grimdarkness is because they're the comedic relief.

Lets pit them against another race who "apparantly" can't lose... nid's and what do we get=

happygolucky wrote:

TrollPie wrote:Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Chaos Marines.
Space Wolves for being mentally challenged Jacob marines when they should be the aggressive, proud and hardy marines.
Grey Knights for being Mary Sue marines who fight and never lose rather than the heroic marines who fight and against all odds and sometimes prevail. They should be the greatest heroes of the Imperium for their bravery, instead they're simply unbeatable and that makes for boring characters.
Chaos Marines for being presented as the bad guys. Why did you rebel? Because we're evil. Why are you covered in spikes? For extra evilness! What are your motives? DESTRUCTION AND BLOOD AND BURNING AND BEING EVIL! They're just cartoon villains with no depth, no sanity and no point.

Oh, and I don't particularly like Orks. Tau's non-grimdarkness is what makes them grimdark: their intentions are galactic peace and unity yet they have no idea just how fethed up the universe is. But Orks non-grimdarkness is because they're the comedic relief.

Lets pit them against another race who "apparantly" can't lose... nid's and what do we get=

A draw. They retreat to space and commence exterminatus.

So there IS no stopping the GK

happygolucky wrote:So there IS no stopping the GK

They didn't put them against Chaos Gods yet...

Brother Coa wrote:

happygolucky wrote:So there IS no stopping the GK

They didn't put them against Chaos Gods yet...

Yeah but this is matt ward we are talking about, he will have already put something down saying that draigo got some cheese and killed them all with it.

Sigh...

Brother Coa wrote:

happygolucky wrote:So there IS no stopping the GK

They didn't put them against Chaos Gods yet...

Perhaps you forgot this dude?

#1 Ultramarines, this is classic, it's a chapter of mary sues! (I think thats what it is called at least...)
#2 5th edition Grey Knights, when they were Daemonhunters, i thought they were the coolest thing, now... I play these guys and I dislike their modern lore.
I dont like with them (as with the Ultramarines) they are just "better" then everyone else. I also am annoyed about what they do with the survivors
"oh hey, we saved this population from daemons... slaugher or slave labor time!!!"
It's like, hey Grey Knights, thanks for your offer to help us... please don't come!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TrollPie wrote:Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Chaos Marines.
Space Wolves for being mentally challenged Jacob marines when they should be the aggressive, proud and hardy marines.
Grey Knights for being Mary Sue marines who fight and never lose rather than the heroic marines who fight and against all odds and sometimes prevail. They should be the greatest heroes of the Imperium for their bravery, instead they're simply unbeatable and that makes for boring characters.
Chaos Marines for being presented as the bad guys. Why did you rebel? Because we're evil. Why are you covered in spikes? For extra evilness! What are your motives? DESTRUCTION AND BLOOD AND BURNING AND BEING EVIL! They're just cartoon villains with no depth, no sanity and no point.

Oh, and I don't particularly like Orks. Tau's non-grimdarkness is what makes them grimdark: their intentions are galactic peace and unity yet they have no idea just how fethed up the universe is. But Orks non-grimdarkness is because they're the comedic relief.

Why not just make it easier and say you hate 40k =P

Void__Dragon wrote:

TrollPie wrote:Oh, and I don't particularly like Orks. Tau's non-grimdarkness is what makes them grimdark: their intentions are galactic peace and unity yet they have no idea just how fethed up the universe is. But Orks non-grimdarkness is because they're the comedic relief.

To be fair, that's just from the Ork point of view. From the point of view of the Imperium, Orks are terrifying.

im2randomghgh wrote:Well the Emperor's plan for dealing with chaos was a good one, there was just no room for error. Instead of doing battle with them, which was guaranteed to cost trillions of lives, he attempted to starve them of faith and worship i.e. what they feed on to survive.

If Lorgar hadn't been a HUGE dick, the plan would have worked.

His plan for dealing with Chaos wasn't too bad, but the way he treated his Primarchs, among others, made it easy for Chaos to turn them against him.

He didn't actually treat the Primarchs that badly, barring Angron, they just felt neglected like attention-starved bitches, because the Emperor was trying to make the webway accessible to humans, which would further suck for chaos, because humans would never travel through the warp. It would be obsolete.

Remulus wrote:

TrollPie wrote:Space Wolves, Grey Knights and Chaos Marines.
Space Wolves for being mentally challenged Jacob marines when they should be the aggressive, proud and hardy marines.
Grey Knights for being Mary Sue marines who fight and never lose rather than the heroic marines who fight and against all odds and sometimes prevail. They should be the greatest heroes of the Imperium for their bravery, instead they're simply unbeatable and that makes for boring characters.
Chaos Marines for being presented as the bad guys. Why did you rebel? Because we're evil. Why are you covered in spikes? For extra evilness! What are your motives? DESTRUCTION AND BLOOD AND BURNING AND BEING EVIL! They're just cartoon villains with no depth, no sanity and no point.

Oh, and I don't particularly like Orks. Tau's non-grimdarkness is what makes them grimdark: their intentions are galactic peace and unity yet they have no idea just how fethed up the universe is. But Orks non-grimdarkness is because they're the comedic relief.

Why not just make it easier and say you hate 40k =P

2 of the smallest factions in the game, 1 slightly larger one and then Orks... that's not everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Void__Dragon wrote:

TrollPie wrote:Oh, and I don't particularly like Orks. Tau's non-grimdarkness is what makes them grimdark: their intentions are galactic peace and unity yet they have no idea just how fethed up the universe is. But Orks non-grimdarkness is because they're the comedic relief.

To be fair, that's just from the Ork point of view. From the point of view of the Imperium, Orks are terrifying.

But from the player point of view, they're laughable.

All of IoM for the ultra depressing suicide its going through, and how it seems so totally plausible.

Ultramarines for being everywhere.

Horus. For the second most perfect being in IoM, he totally got played by a few joes and his own ego. Not to mention "theres to much paperwork" crybaby attitude. Oh and how when someone accuses your father of treason you kill half the galaxy and attack him. USE YOUR WORDS!!

But the rest I'm happy with. Arrogance is fine. Someone out there has to be.

The thing about orks is that people underestimate them

'You find us funny, mr Marquis, with our strange manners and convoluted circumlocutions, but never assume that because something is funny, it is not also dangerous..' Mr Croup (Neverwhere.. quoted approximately from memory, shortly before knocking out, torturing and killing the Marquis...)


Orks are funny, yes, but they are still an amazingly grim bunch. They are just enjoying their grimdark more than most It's like watching a tiger roll in a huge catnip patch, going into kittygasms, then notice you and bite your head off, so that it can enjoy the vibrations from you screaming as it crushes your skull ...


And yes, they are hilarious for the players too. Not laughable (implies useless..) but funny as hell

Eldar annoy me the most due to their arrogance and supposed superiority.

The Grey Knights stuff is also pretty annoying.

In terms of game stuff, Space Marines annoy me because of how much love is lavished upon them by GW. An entirely separate category is reserved for what GW did to Blood Angels. They went from a Codex Astartes chapter who fought against a curse (in 3rd edition) to....loyalist Khornates. Good job, guys. Also, deep striking Land Raiders makes blood shoot out my nose.

In terms of universe fluff once you remove GW incompetence, I actually don't mind Spaez Marens that much. The sole exception is the Soul Drinkers, which was nauseating Mary Sue drivel.

Grey Templar wrote:
Perhaps you forgot this dude?

No I didn't... the man is pure win against Chaos...
I know that many are saying that he is actually being tortured by Chaos Gods, but:

To me he's like a cockroach.

Irritating, nauseating, no real threat and tiny, but you can't get rid of him, no matter what you try...

Ot perhaps more like a particularly virulent verucca.

Ascalam wrote:To me he's like a cockroach.
Irritating, nauseating, no real threat and tiny, but you can't get rid of him, no matter what you try...

Sounds like Tau

Yeah, them too

Ogiwan wrote:In terms of game stuff, Space Marines annoy me because of how much love is lavished upon them by GW. An entirely separate category is reserved for what GW did to Blood Angels. They went from a Codex Astartes chapter who fought against a curse (in 3rd edition) to....loyalist Khornates. Good job, guys. Also, deep striking Land Raiders makes blood shoot out my nose.

In terms of universe fluff once you remove GW incompetence, I actually don't mind Spaez Marens that much. The sole exception is the Soul Drinkers, which was nauseating Mary Sue drivel.

Soul Drinkers is pwnz.

And they are much less mary sue than certain grey astartes, and certain blue smurfs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

Ascalam wrote:To me he's like a cockroach.
Irritating, nauseating, no real threat and tiny, but you can't get rid of him, no matter what you try...

Sounds like Tau

-_____________________________-