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Had a chance to look through it and yeah it's ok - looks as if the Enslavers are still there, if not mentioned, but seemed to do the Old Ones in rather than the Necrons .

The Eldar now see being soulless as the greatest threat rather than having their souls eaten, not sure about that but ok.

I guess we'll see more stories of Hive Worlds being wiped out as more and more Necron Tombworlds awaken as there must be so many planets that the Imperium now share with the Necrontyr.

Pilau Rice wrote:Had a chance to look through it and yeah it's ok - looks as if the Enslavers are still there, if not mentioned, but seemed to do the Old Ones in rather than the Necrons .

They are, Trazyn have one Enslaver in his collection.

One more thing I am having against the new Necrons is Trazyn fluff. More specifically: giant man wearing baroque Power Armour.
Almost all are convince that he has a Primarch in his possession.

Brother Coa wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:Had a chance to look through it and yeah it's ok - looks as if the Enslavers are still there, if not mentioned, but seemed to do the Old Ones in rather than the Necrons .

They are, Trazyn have one Enslaver in his collection.

One more thing I am having against the new Necrons is Trazyn fluff. More specifically: giant man wearing baroque Power Armour.
Almost all are convince that he has a Primarch in his possession.

I mean in reference to the Enslaver Plague, seems that it wasn't what drove the C'tan to hibernation but was the nail in the coffin for the Old Ones.

Yeah, I've heard this but I am not. Could be a Heresy Veteran or an Inquisitor, could even be a Grey Knight or a Custodian. He's somehow got the head of Sebastian Thor in a jar.

Pilau Rice wrote:The Eldar now see being soulless as the greatest threat rather than having their souls eaten, not sure about that but ok.

I can see it working alongside the old fear of being eaten. For an Eldar, being soulless completely destroys them as who they are. Everything they do relies on their psychic ability in some way. On the other hand, for those with souls, having those souls eaten sucks the most... I dunno. The explanation works in my head.

Brother Coa wrote:

Dytalus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:How can 1.000+ be same as 1.000.000+?

Is 1,000,000 greater than 1,000? Then it falls into the 1,000+ category. Ergo, something over 1,000,000 is also over 1,000.

No, that doesn't work that.
1.000+ may only go to 1 million, not more ( logically because there is no more thousands, then millions ), 1.000.000+ can go to billion, not more.
So when I say thousands I might go only to 1.000.000+ ( 50.000, 500.000, 999.999 ), I can't say there are thousand planets in galaxy when there is billions of them .
So your theory falls into water

The number 1,300,000 would like to have a word with you.

Dytalus wrote:
The number 1,300,000 would like to have a word with you.

The millions number? Go ahead, tell me what bother's you...

Dytalus wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:The Eldar now see being soulless as the greatest threat rather than having their souls eaten, not sure about that but ok.

I can see it working alongside the old fear of being eaten. For an Eldar, being soulless completely destroys them as who they are. Everything they do relies on their psychic ability in some way. On the other hand, for those with souls, having those souls eaten sucks the most... I dunno. The explanation works in my head

My reasoning is that you are scared of something that has no soul, that might not do anything to you, rather than have your own soul actually eaten.

Say you are an Eldar, you might never encounter a Necron. But if you fall over a bit of Wraithbone and smash your soulstone you're going to get your soul eaten.

Bad example is bad but I think you get me .. hopefully

Brother Coa wrote:

Dytalus wrote:
The number 1,300,000 would like to have a word with you.

The millions number? Go ahead, tell me what bother's you...

This'll have to be my last post on this, since maths is slightly ot. <__<

The fact that it is 1 million, three hundred thousand. If thousands cannot go into millions beyond one million, how do you get all the numbers between 1 and 2 million. Or 3 and 4 million. Thousands go into millions, it's basic division.

Dytalus wrote:
The fact that it is 1 million, three hundred thousand. If thousands cannot go into millions beyond one million, how do you get all the numbers between 1 and 2 million. Or 3 and 4 million. Thousands go into millions, it's basic division.

You see, this is different because word "million" goes before thousands. And the text in codex say either "millions" or "thousands" - not millions of thousands.
Thousand can never go into million, it's basic math.

Brother Coa wrote:

Dytalus wrote:
The fact that it is 1 million, three hundred thousand. If thousands cannot go into millions beyond one million, how do you get all the numbers between 1 and 2 million. Or 3 and 4 million. Thousands go into millions, it's basic division.

You see, this is different because word "million" goes before thousands. And the text in codex say either "millions" or "thousands" - not millions of thousands.
Thousand can never go into million, it's basic math.

I have to go with coa on this one. When any piece of fluff states "thousands of warriors" or "thousands of worlds", it means while it is impossible to assert the exact number of warriors or planets, we can estimate that they number a few thousands and NOT a few millions.

The Necrons at the height of their power had an Empire beyond measure, after defeating the C'Tan they still had a larger Empire than the IoM at it's peak.

These handful represent the millions - that pretty much sums it up. The Necrons have an Empire vastly larger than the IoM that hasn't fully awoken yet. Consider the tiny amount that has woken already, it pretty much crushed it's way uncontested through the galaxy. Necrons are the winners for most powerful faction.

The IoM is now the tiny factor to a larger race, who's threat is marginal, you can try and call the Necrons a "Tau Threat," but they are in truth, a vast empire squashing little human and xeno bugs alike on their planets.

Beef, you didn't read more than half of what we write here do you?

Brother Coa wrote:No, that doesn't work that.
1.000+ may only go to 1 million, not more ( logically because there is no more thousands, then millions ), 1.000.000+ can go to billion, not more.
So when I say thousands I might go only to 1.000.000+ ( 50.000, 500.000, 999.999 ), I can't say there are thousand planets in galaxy when there is billions of them .
So your theory falls into water

What is a thousand thousands?

Side note:
Never get anywhere near mathhammer.

Brother Coa wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:Had a chance to look through it and yeah it's ok - looks as if the Enslavers are still there, if not mentioned, but seemed to do the Old Ones in rather than the Necrons .

They are, Trazyn have one Enslaver in his collection.

One more thing I am having against the new Necrons is Trazyn fluff. More specifically: giant man wearing baroque Power Armour.
Almost all are convince that he has a Primarch in his possession.

Why don't you like it?

Pilau Rice wrote:
My reasoning is that you are scared of something that has no soul, that might not do anything to you, rather than have your own soul actually eaten.

Say you are an Eldar, you might never encounter a Necron. But if you fall over a bit of Wraithbone and smash your soulstone you're going to get your soul eaten.

Bad example is bad but I think you get me .. hopefully

You're ignoring the whole, "We fought you before and now we're going to finish it" angle. Or the "YOU KILLED MY FATHER!" angle (Old ones). There are lots of reasons for the Eldar to hate the Necrons.

Brother Coa wrote:Beef, you didn't read more than half of what we write here do you?

You seem to find a conflict in the number of worlds the Necrons have.

They have thousands of worlds across the galaxy that are crawling with automatons. The have untold millions of worlds in stasis.

As for you not liking Trazyn having a possible Primarch in his possession.. .why not? He is millions of years older than the Emperor of mankind and the human race. He came from an empire that was at it's peak and perhaps well after, capable of hunting Tyranids into extinction. His Empire also fought the Eldar in their prime, a race that had the entire Ork threat isolated to a small blip on the galactic map in manageable numbers.

To Trazyn and the Necrons in general, humans, tau, and chaos are just squatters living on borrowed time.

I have no issue with worlds, they have millions ( aldo most of them were either destroyed or raided ) Imperium has million world'S, Orks have even more. I hate Trazyn because: I don't know, I don't like him. He's to creepy even for a Cron...

And you still didn't read half stuff that is posted here...

Trazyn's not creepy. He just likes to kidnap people and imprison them in displays where they can enact historic moments for all eternity for his own satisfaction.

Not creepy at all.

Brother Coa wrote:I have no issue with worlds, they have millions ( aldo most of them were either destroyed or raided ) Imperium has million world'S, Orks have even more. I hate Trazyn because: I don't know, I don't like him. He's to creepy even for a Cron...

And you still didn't read half stuff that is posted here..

Where does it say in their codex that most of their millions of worlds were destroyed? Page Number? I found a reference to worlds perishing due to time, raids, eldar, tectonic plates etc... but nothing about the majority of their worlds being destroyed.

And where does it say the Orkz have more worlds than Necrons? Page Number? Again, I need to know what you are referencing, because I'm not seeing anything in this codex that says orkz have more worlds?

Orkz have a gak ton of worlds. Dunno how they sit in comparison to everybody else, but they are up there.

Orks have consistently been referred to as the most numerous race in the entire galaxy.

Unless the codex changed that and I missed it, they should still outnumber the Necrons.

If nothing else they've been sporing sinnce the War in Heaven, and the Necrons ..haven't

They likely got beaten back a few times (ancient eldar for example) but they spread fast, and spore all through their lives

Void__Dragon wrote:Orks have consistently been referred to as the most numerous race in the entire galaxy.

Unless the codex changed that and I missed it, they should still outnumber the Necrons.

That certainly doesn't mean they control the most worlds. I have no problem believing it if it's stated somewhere, but I've never actually seen as such.

iproxtaco wrote:That certainly doesn't mean they control the most worlds. I have no problem believing it if it's stated somewhere, but I've never actually seen as such.

IIRC the galaxy map shows that Orks are essentially everywhere, inhabiting the majority of the galaxy.

I could be misremembering though.

There's a fluff piece about a probe sent out from the imperium 10,000 years ago or so that's still transmitting.

Most of the signals it picks up are orkish.

It sys in the Ork dex i think (could be the main rulebook fluff section) that wherever humanity goes the orks are already there, or will be soon.

Ork dex says their number is beyond counting, and they have empires from the galactic core to the distant ghoul stars, but that the empires aaren't static. They rise and fall and rise again.

I'll see what other snippets i can find.

The Necron Megalith is on page 21 of the new codex. It's described as large enough so that pieces initially thought to be just debris raining down ended up being monoliths. The necrons have a warmachine that makes it rain monoliths.

As for the drive debate, the Night Scythes are apparently "often employed as far-ranging scout ships, tasked with making contact with other tomb worlds . . . " Necrons have to have FTL in their fighters, probably those nice inertialess drives. On the other end of the spectrum, we have a World Engine, that over the course of 14 years, devastates an imperial sector. I'd say that requires FTL.

It's quite possible that every reference to torch ships is another variance of similar madness to that affecting Zahndrek, Necrons having forgotten recent history and falling back to their ancient, necrontyr roots.

Edit: Also, the fluff piece about the Necron Tomb Ship being trashed by a black templar battle barge says nothing about 1 volley. It only states a broadside took down the shields so boarding torpedoes could hit.

Not sure the Necrons are even villians anymore. Imotekh fights with honour. I feel sorry for the Silent King. They are just Imperialists. In many ways they are morally on par with Imperium.

Just a couple of notes on the whole debate. I love the new necron Codex, fluff and all...and I've been with necron for years now.

The original codex declared them as a 'awakening' threat...the new 'dex claims that as a tomb world awakens, it's base forces are awakend to secure the planet....would it not be plausible that what the IoM saw WAS the first troops awakened? Wouldn't they believe that these massive C'tan were the leaders, since everyone else in the army was a mindless killing machines? But now that the REAL leaders are awake, they would see (whilst being manhandled by a tide of undying metal buttwhoopin) That they were wrong about it all?

Another thing I've noticed is alot of debate about the Necron being 'noble and honorable fighters'....yes, against foes they, or more specifically, the Praetorians deem to be an 'honorable' foe. They view everyone else as cattle and insects to be enslaved, or exterminated. Stormlord, however, has a glitch in his system that makes him battle for glory...it's not honor that spared halbrecht, it was Arrogance and Pride. He only spares them so they can wallow in defeat, OR man up, get better, and come back and try for round 2. Nemesor Zahndrekh, however, thinks he's fighting Necrontyr, so EVERYONE gets the codes of battle applied to them.

The Necron may have a boat load of planets...but a crapton where annihilated throughout the ages, through artifice or just bad luck. thousands more aren't even awake yet...

I can't imagine that the Necron can dart across the galaxy willy nilly JUST because they have a few strands of the webway under their belt. they have to use the Dolmen Gates, which angers the webway, causing it to..for lack of a better term...cauterize the entrance, and anything trapped within if they're not fast enough. I assume, since they have some form of 'Dimension slipping' technology, that their ships would use it whenever possible.

Trazyn is just awesome...that pompus letter he wrote that inquisitor...did anyone else notice he sent her a Tesseract Labyrinth! 'thanks for the regiments, here, have an eternal extra dimensional prison to stay in.'

yes, the new Codex paints them as the next 'all powerful conqueror'...but they're not....they get kicked in the face just as much as the next guy (except maybe IG...they get slapped around day and night) Superior Tech? Uh...yea, that's sort of their thing. But no matter how awesome they may seem...they will never win. So just chill...enjoy the Codex for what it is..new. They're a blast to play.

What Codex did you read dude?

In the one I read they lost less planets than survived and they have thousands awakening with millions in stasis.

The same codex that also has Doom Scythes, a flier that makes veteran armies rip out their own eyes as they see hallucinations of worm ridden corpses of their friends..

In this dex, the Necrons also dominated the face out of a Chapter Master and rocked every race they fought like they were fighting nothing but PDF.

So were are you getting this whole weaker thing?

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
In this dex, the Necrons also dominated the face out of a Chapter Master and rocked every race they fought like they were fighting nothing but PDF.

So were are you getting this whole weaker thing?

Aside from Helbrecht's revenge, no, it was not that one sided. The Necron Lord that travels around awakening Tomb Worlds crippled his force destroying one Cadian regiment. There were cases of their forces being stretched to the limit. Indeed, one force stalemates against Eldar until the Tomb World they're on wakes up. Not to mention generally in the background the Necrons don't always come out on top.

Tin_cannon wrote:Just a couple of notes on the whole debate. I love the new necron Codex, fluff and all...and I've been with necron for years now.

The original codex declared them as a 'awakening' threat...the new 'dex claims that as a tomb world awakens, it's base forces are awakend to secure the planet....would it not be plausible that what the IoM saw WAS the first troops awakened? Wouldn't they believe that these massive C'tan were the leaders, since everyone else in the army was a mindless killing machines? But now that the REAL leaders are awake, they would see (whilst being manhandled by a tide of undying metal buttwhoopin) That they were wrong about it all?

Yes, that's what I figure.