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BeefCakeSoup wrote:Necron supremacy is not an idea, it's pretty much fluff fact.

Necrons are unstoppable in their current portrayal. World Engines burn through Imperial fleets, Megaliths eclipse over cities, Necron forces are described as having several massive wars against the IoM, in which Hive Worlds are pretty much swept aside without Necron Rulers even thinking they are fighting actual resistance.

Necrons blow through the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, PDF, Space Marines, Tau, Eldar, and Imotehk probably has exterminated more races than the Emperor of Mankind.

Necrons are top dogs at the moment, Imperial forces are more likely to run then fight a foe that swats thunderhawks out of the skies and humiliates Chapter Masters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CpatTom wrote:You know what a tactical genius would do?
Get his hand cut off, then it would fix itself with reanimation protocols.

I like to think of these new Crons as British, with Top Hats, and talking all funny British talk while twirling their metal mustaches.

Still haven't read it, though looking forward to it based on all the emotion spewed throughout these pages.

It's pretty awesome.

Vet Cron players will have mixed feelings, but I like how they start the story 65 million years before the Emperor was even born. Narrative is not typical Ward writing, I have a strong suspicion a different person wrote fluff.

Lol Top dog....until the next dex is out.

Brother Coa wrote:

There is only 1 book: "The Fall of Damnos"

They seem pretty capable in Dark Creed

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Necrons blow through the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, PDF, Space Marines, Tau, Eldar, and Imotehk probably has exterminated more races than the Emperor of Mankind.

And yet a Tomb Ship has it's shields stripped from it by a broadside from a Battle-barge. Ambiguity much?

Hm, did anyone see mention of Dark Eldar in the codex? I read through it, and don't remember even a snippet. I could have missed it though.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Necrons blow through the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, PDF, Space Marines, Tau, Eldar, and Imotehk probably has exterminated more races than the Emperor of Mankind.

And yet a Tomb Ship has it's shields stripped from it by a broadside from a Battle-barge. Ambiguity much?

Well, tombships aren't even suposed to have voidshields at all
But hey, who cares about old fluff now that Ward has shown us the light...

KingDeath wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Necrons blow through the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, PDF, Space Marines, Tau, Eldar, and Imotehk probably has exterminated more races than the Emperor of Mankind.

And yet a Tomb Ship has it's shields stripped from it by a broadside from a Battle-barge. Ambiguity much?

Well, tombships aren't even suposed to have voidshields at all
But hey, who cares about old fluff now that Ward has shown us the light...

Shields does not necessarily equal Void Shields.

Necron ships were always squishy, mainly due to the Imperium's love affair with stupidly big guns (nothing screams , DIE YOU BASTID like a gun with a barrel the size of your car). Their power came from how difficult they were to target and the fact that their weapons were far, far better than Imperial weapons. If a Tomb Ship was ambushed, I don't doubt a Battle Barge (one of the most powerful ships in the Imperium) would be capable of bringing its shields down.

Dytalus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Are they united? No.

Actually, they are more united than most of the bad guys. Their most basic programming is basically "enslave/kill everyone and take control again". While there's a few dynasties damaged and hence not following this command, it's probably no more than the number of Imperial worlds which rebel on a regular basis.[

No they aren't, the fluff clearly states that every dynasty is fighting against other dynasties for prevail. We have only few fluff examples of Necron dynasties working together. All other examples they are fighting each other. They only one being able to unite them all was Silent King, and using the Old Ones as a bait. The only time they were truly united was when they were under Silent King direct control, and he destroyed that remote controler and thus every hope that their race will be united again.

Are they have superior FTL. No.

Yes, actually. They definitely have some form of FTL not reliant on the Warp, which makes it better than the Warp. It might be slower, but they don't have to worry about showing up a hundred years late or being eaten by thought forms. Then there's the Dolmen Gates, which make them more mobile than the Eldar. Eldar have to rely on natural Webway Gates. Necrons can make their own.

Better in sense they need decades to the nearest star system, those ships serve to transfer troops and they are equipped with stasis pods. And they are easy picking for the Imperial Navy ships. That is great fail compared to their previous fluff.

Do they outnumber Humanity? No.

Considering that humanity needs to expend millions of soldiers to conquer a world, and the Necrons never really expend troops in the long run, this doesn't matter. Plus, it's also described that there are billions of Necrons sleeping on thousands of Tomb Worlds. And unlike humanity, every single one of them is some kind of soldier or weapon of war. Humanity has useless civilians at the lowest point (or if we're talking just military guys, the PDF), Necrons have their Warriors.

The point is that Mankind can reinforce their losses quickly while Necrons can't. Every time their solder fall and cannot repair he is lost to them forever. And numbers do count, when 1 Necron warrior is fired upon by 100 Guardsman he doesn't have much of a chance against them do he? And those Tomb WOrlds are under contant danger, natural or no. There is very small chance that a great number of them will awoke undamaged.

Do they hold countless number of worlds? Beside several ones mentioned, No.

Okay, valid point. They don't hold as many as the Imperium. I'd be willing to bet they come in second or third. To the Imperium. Both of them probably suck compared to how many worlds Orks control. God damn pests. :p

Good that we see this in common sense.

Do they suffer defeat sometimes? Yes, by both Imperials and Orks.

Shall we list the Imperial defeats of the 40k fluff? Damnos (Necrons), Sanctuary 101 (Necrons again), several million worlds at the hands of the Tyranids, the Cadian Gate as of the Thirteenth Black Crusade is no longer under complete Imperial control. Only Cadia remains a solid fortress, and even then there are Chaos forces entrenched there. And that's just from the codices I actually have access to (save the 13th Crusade, which I still have the newsletters for. I loved that Campaign.)

God Emperor.... shall I list alien defeats? I need to type several days to list them all. And all Necron engagements in new fluff are against MINOR Imperial forces. I noticed that in every battle Necrons fought against the Imperium in new codex they outnumber the Humans badly. Then the NEcrons got owned when several Space Marine chapters atack at the same time, destroying the Tomb World without any major losses. In all other losses it was Necron entire military force against 1 Guard Regiment ( usually numbering 8 - 12.000 Men ). If Necron force was to be outnumbered buy Humans they would lose badly every battle because of the sherr firepower they can brought to bare.

Are they top dogs? No. Imperium still hold the 1'st place being largest and most unified force in the galaxy.

Largest, yeah probably. But the fluff pretty much dictates that this won't last. The Emperor is dying, the Imperium's grip is rapidly decaying, they're losing ground everywhere to heretics, xenos and just general rebellion. I'd hardly call that unified. The Tau and Eldar are far more unified than that.

It's called the Time of Ending for a reason. : D

And yet we have 116 of the rulebook that say: "They know as we know that night approaches and all mortal life shall be extinguished ( The end times ). We know, as they cannot, that there shall be a new dawn and a new day when we will rise and they will be driven into the darkness forever ( the age after the End Times )." This means that they are temporary in bad situation, defending more worlds than they can. And that they will stabilize in some point and punch back again. For now, Imperium is still the largest and the most powerful galactic fighting force, because all others are either disunited or minor threats. As for the end times, as NEcron fluff can change dramatically so it can that fluff. We will just wait 6'th edition and see for ourselves.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Oh and fyi, fights between Necrons and the IoM aren't actually fights. It's just the Imperium getting on its knees and begging for mercy or fighting to the last.

Megaliths > Titans, Mantas, Gargants, everything...

Technology is heavily in Necron favor and Tomb Worlds are basically World Engine / Forge Worlds that pump out insane armies that win almost flawless victories.

Necrons are all over the place, while they aren't numerous ants, they are top tier in 40K fluff, the ultimate Alpha Predator that only recognizes Tyranids as a threat.

I think, I nearly chocked to death when reading your post.

Check this out: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440056_Imperial_Datasheet_-_Emperor_Battle_Titan.pdf

I'm not boasting about the IoM's strength or anything, but the necrons are not the only ones to have shiny toys. Nor do they have the sharpest teeth IMO.

No offense intended (and I mean it, keep cool ), but your posts almost reek of necron fanboyism. No need to get this lyrical when describing your utter satisfaction of seeing your fav faction crushing all of its opponents in their brand new codex.

It is true that the necrons are shown under a very favorable light in the latest codex, but guess what... every other race is also shown as a group uber-winning badasses in their own codices. Matt Ward (or the ghost writer behind the new cron dex, as some people claim) didn't invent anything.

After reading the nid or the ork codex, I was also under the impression that they would soon be the ultimate masters of the galaxy and that every other faction was doomed to extinction. But after regaining a cool and rational mind, I realized that it was normal for these races to be depicted this way in their own codex.


I think describing the necrons as the "apex predators of the galaxy" or the "tier 1" race in the Universe is a bit overreacting.

Laodamia wrote:
I think, I nearly chocked to death when reading your post.

Check this out: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440056_Imperial_Datasheet_-_Emperor_Battle_Titan.pdf

I'm not boasting about the IoM's strength or anything, but the necrons are not the only ones to have shiny toys. Nor do they have the sharpest teeth IMO.

No offense intended (and I mean it, keep cool ), but your posts almost reek of necron fanboyism. No need to get this lyrical when describing your utter satisfaction of seeing your fav faction crushing all of its opponents in their brand new codex.

It is true that the necrons are shown under a very favorable light in the latest codex, but guess what... every other race is also shown as a group uber-winning badasses in their own codices. Matt Ward (or the ghost writer behind the new cron dex, as some people claim) didn't invent anything.

After reading the nid or the ork codex, I was also under the impression that they would soon be the ultimate masters of the galaxy and that every other faction was doomed to extinction. But after regaining a cool and rational mind, I realized that it was normal for these races to be depicted this way in their own codex.


I think describing the necrons as the "apex predators of the galaxy" or the "tier 1" race in the Universe is a bit overreacting.

Thank you good sir for bringing reason in this thread. Thank the Emperor for that.

Brother Coa wrote:
No they aren't, the fluff clearly states that every dynasty is fighting against other dynasties for prevail. We have only few fluff examples of Necron dynasties working together. All other examples they are fighting each other. They only one being able to unite them all was Silent King, and using the Old Ones as a bait. The only time they were truly united was when they were under Silent King direct control, and he destroyed that remote controler and thus every hope that their race will be united again.

The Silent King gave one last order prior to destroying his protocols. Which was "take control of the galaxy again". All the Necrons obey that, it's their most basic programming.

Better in sense they need decades to the nearest star system, those ships serve to transfer troops and they are equipped with stasis pods. And they are easy picking for the Imperial Navy ships. That is great fail compared to their previous fluff.

Where does it state decades other than prior to the War in Heaven? There's no way they conquered the galaxy without FTL. It just wouldn't happen. Plus, even if that were the case they still have the webway. How many times have Eldar fleets and armies shown up out of nowhere? And they have less of a choice of where to show up than the Necrons.

The point is that Mankind can reinforce their losses quickly while Necrons can't. Every time their solder fall and cannot repair he is lost to them forever. And numbers do count, when 1 Necron warrior is fired upon by 100 Guardsman he doesn't have much of a chance against them do he? And those Tomb WOrlds are under contant danger, natural or no. There is very small chance that a great number of them will awoke undamaged.

You missed my point. The Imperium invades a world. It loses millions. They take it. Necrons invade a world, they lose a fraction of that amount. If they don't repair on the field of battle, they repair in a Tomb. If they can't be repaired there, they are broken down into energy and parts...used to build more stuff. And are your worlds not under constant danger? Rebellion, heretics, rogue governors, and every single alien race ever. The Imperium has more worlds and a less efficient way of communicating with them. They can't possibly maintain control over everything to the same degree a similarly sized Necron empire could.

Good that we see this in common sense.

Huzzah! Agreement. ^ _ ^

God Emperor.... shall I list alien defeats? I need to type several days to list them all. And all Necron engagements in new fluff are against MINOR Imperial forces. I noticed that in every battle Necrons fought against the Imperium in new codex they outnumber the Humans badly. Then the NEcrons got owned when several Space Marine chapters atack at the same time, destroying the Tomb World without any major losses. In all other losses it was Necron entire military force against 1 Guard Regiment ( usually numbering 8 - 12.000 Men ). If Necron force was to be outnumbered buy Humans they would lose badly every battle because of the sherr firepower they can brought to bare.

Did you miss every other indication? Like the entire Hive World which got wiped, the numerous space marine chapters. Damnos itself had a huge army, and it got wiped ridiculously quickly. With Space Marine help. When did Space Marines ever unite to wip out a tomb world in this Codex. I would like a page number, because I honestly don't remember. And if it takes a bunch of space marine chapters, anybody is dying to that, Necron or no. It's hardly a fair point. On average, the Necrons face down whole Imperial worlds, with millions of guardsmen and PDF, and win. And they regularly whoop Space Marine ass too.

And yet we have 116 of the rulebook that say: "They know as we know that night approaches and all mortal life shall be extinguished ( The end times ). We know, as they cannot, that there shall be a new dawn and a new day when we will rise and they will be driven into the darkness forever ( the age after the End Times )." This means that they are temporary in bad situation, defending more worlds than they can. And that they will stabilize in some point and punch back again. For now, Imperium is still the largest and the most powerful galactic fighting force, because all others are either disunited or minor threats. As for the end times, as NEcron fluff can change dramatically so it can that fluff. We will just wait 6'th edition and see for ourselves.

True, the fluff might change. But the rulebook is written from an Imperial standpoint. Of course there's going to be propaganda like that in an excerpt from an Imperial file. How will the Imperium recover when the Emperor dies? No more Astronomicon, no more warp travel, no more Imperium. But yes, the fluff might change back to the glory days of the Imperium, but I doubt it. The Imperium's situation has been getting worse with every edition. I can't see that changing.

EDIT: Regarding the guy who posted before me (NINJA D:<, yeah the Imperium does have some pretty fancy guns. Guns the size of a building is what they excel at (and are awesome for). It doesn't change that in fluff the Necrons have things which outmatch Titans. I agree Necrons aren't top tier though. Only Chaos could probably be a top tier enemy, or those damned Orks. The point is that the Necrons, if left unchecked, will be a near undefeatable problem. They aren't the only ones. Chaos and Tyranids also fall into this category.

TheAngrySquig wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Personal favorite was Imotehk beating the crap out of Helbrecht, telling him he sucked, his empire sucked and his troops sucked then cutting his hand off and kicking him off a cliff.

Such win, that it cannot be measured on an internet scale.

I will leave you with this: http://blog.eloqua.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Success-kid2.jpg

And I leave you both this

Dytalus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
No they aren't, the fluff clearly states that every dynasty is fighting against other dynasties for prevail. We have only few fluff examples of Necron dynasties working together. All other examples they are fighting each other. They only one being able to unite them all was Silent King, and using the Old Ones as a bait. The only time they were truly united was when they were under Silent King direct control, and he destroyed that remote controler and thus every hope that their race will be united again.

The Silent King gave one last order prior to destroying his protocols. Which was "take control of the galaxy again". All the Necrons obey that, it's their most basic programming.

No. His last order was: "rebuild your dynasties, and restore them to their former glory." He might forgot en that they restored them to glory by crushing other dynasties that rival them. Ups...

Better in sense they need decades to the nearest star system, those ships serve to transfer troops and they are equipped with stasis pods. And they are easy picking for the Imperial Navy ships. That is great fail compared to their previous fluff.

Where does it state decades other than prior to the War in Heaven? There's no way they conquered the galaxy without FTL. It just wouldn't happen. Plus, even if that were the case they still have the webway. How many times have Eldar fleets and armies shown up out of nowhere? And they have less of a choice of where to show up than the Necrons.

Page 8: "As a race bereft of psykers, the Necrons are incapable of Warp travel, and without access to the webway, they would be forced to rely once more on slow voyaging stasis-ships, dooming them to isolation." And because webway portals are unstable and many times happened that they lose a number of solders they are forced to again use this ships. Witch are damned slow according to this paragraph.

The point is that Mankind can reinforce their losses quickly while Necrons can't. Every time their solder fall and cannot repair he is lost to them forever. And numbers do count, when 1 Necron warrior is fired upon by 100 Guardsman he doesn't have much of a chance against them do he? And those Tomb WOrlds are under contant danger, natural or no. There is very small chance that a great number of them will awoke undamaged.

You missed my point. The Imperium invades a world. It loses millions. They take it. Necrons invade a world, they lose a fraction of that amount. If they don't repair on the field of battle, they repair in a Tomb. If they can't be repaired there, they are broken down into energy and parts...used to build more stuff. And are your worlds not under constant danger? Rebellion, heretics, rogue governors, and every single alien race ever. The Imperium has more worlds and a less efficient way of communicating with them. They can't possibly maintain control over everything to the same degree a similarly sized Necron empire could.

The only worlds they successively captured were low defending worlds and in every battle they outnumbered Humans a lot. Novere in new codex is stated some large military operation, the biggest territory Necrons have is Imotech's little empire of several Tomb Worlds. And it is said that they will fall in the near future because several alien factions will be descending upon iit. And Imperials may don't communicate effectively with their worlds. They still manage to rise large forces to crush enemy resistance. What is millions for the Imperium that have that numbers x 10000 on LOW populated world, their biggest recourse is manpower so they are spending it a lot. My point is, no matter how many solders Imperium lose in the end it still wins it's most important battles without sending it's major military force.

God Emperor.... shall I list alien defeats? I need to type several days to list them all. And all Necron engagements in new fluff are against MINOR Imperial forces. I noticed that in every battle Necrons fought against the Imperium in new codex they outnumber the Humans badly. Then the NEcrons got owned when several Space Marine chapters atack at the same time, destroying the Tomb World without any major losses. In all other losses it was Necron entire military force against 1 Guard Regiment ( usually numbering 8 - 12.000 Men ). If Necron force was to be outnumbered buy Humans they would lose badly every battle because of the sherr firepower they can brought to bare.

Did you miss every other indication? Like the entire Hive World which got wiped, the numerous space marine chapters. Damnos itself had a huge army, and it got wiped ridiculously quickly. With Space Marine help. When did Space Marines ever unite to wip out a tomb world in this Codex. I would like a page number, because I honestly don't remember. And if it takes a bunch of space marine chapters, anybody is dying to that, Necron or no. It's hardly a fair point. On average, the Necrons face down whole Imperial worlds, with millions of guardsmen and PDF, and win. And they regularly whoop Space Marine ass too.

Poor unlighted child, No matter if 1 Hive World get wiped, even if 100 get wiped that is not great loss for them. And Necrons viped out only 1`Space Marine chapter, attacking them in a instant with millions of warriors ( against only 1.000 marines, what a shocker ). Page 57 say that after Orikan the Diviner attacked Silver Sculls and preventing them from helping Helios VI who fell to the Orks he granted his Necrons a new territory. Then Silver Sculls returned with "few palls" and "destroying the Tomb World from whence Orikan's original commission had come." He never spoke of that again to hide his shame of future telling ( he screw up his vision ). I didn't read anywhere about "millions of Guardsman and PDF", only 2-3 Regiments or mostly 1, that got destroyed by entire Necron army's ( Imperial army have thousands of Regiments, not 2-3 ). Like I said, Necrons only win battles because they outnumber their foes on their own turf. If they really faced millions of Guardsman they would be utter dead like every other alien foe.

And yet we have 116 of the rulebook that say: "They know as we know that night approaches and all mortal life shall be extinguished ( The end times ). We know, as they cannot, that there shall be a new dawn and a new day when we will rise and they will be driven into the darkness forever ( the age after the End Times )." This means that they are temporary in bad situation, defending more worlds than they can. And that they will stabilize in some point and punch back again. For now, Imperium is still the largest and the most powerful galactic fighting force, because all others are either disunited or minor threats. As for the end times, as NEcron fluff can change dramatically so it can that fluff. We will just wait 6'th edition and see for ourselves.

True, the fluff might change. But the rulebook is written from an Imperial standpoint. Of course there's going to be propaganda like that in an excerpt from an Imperial file. How will the Imperium recover when the Emperor dies? No more Astronomicon, no more warp travel, no more Imperium. But yes, the fluff might change back to the glory days of the Imperium, but I doubt it. The Imperium's situation has been getting worse with every edition. I can't see that changing.

I see it actually. In every book, novel, comic, video game...they always win + return their worlds with minimal forces in battle. And let's not forget Star Child theory, when Emperor dies he will resurrect again and lead Mnakind in a new Great Crusade, thus dooming every alien force out there. Primarchs will return to fight beside him etc... And I see some parts of non-Imperial codex as propaganda as much as Imperial codex are propaganda, so let's not carry ourselves there.
The bottom line is, new Necrons are weak, weaker then Orks or Nids. They have small territories, incapable of advanced FTL travel witch makes them prior to isolation. They fight among themselves for power and didn't encounter large force to fight against, except for Lazar were they lost an entire Tomb World. They still have their tech, making them dangerious in local level, but on large galactic scale: in termes of power they are just little above Tau now.

I know it's off on a bit of a tangent, and don't want to derail the thread but (having not seen the codex I can't say for certain if it's in there) there is a snippet in WD about the 'Bone Kingdom of Drazak' which is basically an entire tombworld that gets turned into flayed ones, and when the amount of flesh etc on the planet runs low they raid nearby planets for fresh meat and their led by a overlord who is also a flayed one.

Really makes me want to start a flayed-one heavy list, and conversions abound...

Brother Coa wrote:
No. His last order was: "rebuild your dynasties, and restore them to their former glory." He might forgot en that they restored them to glory by crushing other dynasties that rival them. Ups...

You're misreading it. The Necron dynasties (ie, all of them) are to be restored. I will admit the Silent King herp'd by not including a "don't be dicks to each other" clause in their somewhere.

Page 8: "As a race bereft of psykers, the Necrons are incapable of Warp travel, and without access to the webway, they would be forced to rely once more on slow voyaging stasis-ships, dooming them to isolation." And because webway portals are unstable and many times happened that they lose a number of solders they are forced to again use this ships. Witch are damned slow according to this paragraph.

Ah. Bugger. I missed that bit. Nuuuuuuuuu my beloved FTL drives. ; - ;. It still does state that they move a lot faster than the younger races, and again lost Necrons are rarely permanently lost. Though it's the Webway, I'd imagine their teleportation still works.

The only worlds they successively captured were low defending worlds and in every battle they outnumbered Humans a lot. Novere in new codex is stated some large military operation, the biggest territory Necrons have is Imotech's little empire of several Tomb Worlds. And it is said that they will fall in the near future because several alien factions will be descending upon iit. And Imperials may don't communicate effectively with their worlds. They still manage to rise large forces to crush enemy resistance. What is millions for the Imperium that have that numbers x 10000 on LOW populated world, their biggest recourse is manpower so they are spending it a lot. My point is, no matter how many solders Imperium lose in the end it still wins it's most important battles without sending it's major military force.

It's not said it will fall. It's said that Imotekh is about to face them down. It's already established in the canon he's the galaxies greatest strategist (Sorry CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED), so he should be well capable of handling the situation. Should be interesting though. And there are numerous worlds lost to the Necrons with whole armies to defend them. Your assumption that they are all small worlds is flat out wrong. And it's major military forces is the Imperial Guard. I don't see how they can win their major battles wihtout sending them in. That's just wrong. How'd they win Armageddon? By sending in millions of Guardsmen and hundreds of Space Marines. How'd they (just barely) keep a hold on Cadia? With billions of Guardsmen and thousands of Space Marines. I'll admit, they aren't going to be describing massive Necron defeats in a Necron Codex, but that doesn't mean the Imperium hasn't fought them as hard as possible.

Poor unlighted child, No matter if 1 Hive World get wiped, even if 100 get wiped that is not great loss for them. And Necrons viped out only 1`Space Marine chapter, attacking them in a instant with millions of warriors ( against only 1.000 marines, what a shocker ). Page 57 say that after Orikan the Diviner attacked Silver Sculls and preventing them from helping Helios VI who fell to the Orks he granted his Necrons a new territory. Then Silver Sculls returned with "few palls" and "destroying the Tomb World from whence Orikan's original commission had come." He never spoke of that again to hide his shame of future telling ( he screw up his vision ). I didn't read anywhere about "millions of Guardsman and PDF", only 2-3 Regiments or mostly 1, that got destroyed by entire Necron army's ( Imperial army have thousands of Regiments, not 2-3 ). Like I said, Necrons only win battles because they outnumber their foes on their own turf. If they really faced millions of Guardsman they would be utter dead like every other alien foe.

"millions of Guardsmen and PDF" covers the Hive Worlds taken. I'd quote every time the Imperium is defeated in the Necron Codex when they field substantial forces, but I don't have the Codex with me. "Every other alien foe" does not always die against Guardsmen. Otherwise the Tyranids, Orks, Dark Eldar and Tau wouldn't be alive.

I see it actually. In every book, novel, comic, video game...they always win + return their worlds with minimal forces in battle. And let's not forget Star Child theory, when Emperor dies he will resurrect again and lead Mnakind in a new Great Crusade, thus dooming every alien force out there. Primarchs will return to fight beside him etc... And I see some parts of non-Imperial codex as propaganda as much as Imperial codex are propaganda, so let's not carry ourselves there.
The bottom line is, new Necrons are weak, weaker then Orks or Nids. They have small territories, incapable of advanced FTL travel witch makes them prior to isolation. They fight among themselves for power and didn't encounter large force to fight against, except for Lazar were they lost an entire Tomb World. They still have their tech, making them dangerious in local level, but on large galactic scale: in termes of power they are just little above Tau now.

They are miles above Tau. The Tau control about the same (possibly less) than the sum total of the awoken dynasties, are equally crippled by a lack of Warp Travel (and they don't have the webway) and can't win a war of attrition like the 'crons can. I love the Tau to pieces, I've always hoped I'd have the money for an army of them, but they're probably one of the lowlier threats in the galaxy. They are weaker than Nids, but not Orks. Of course, that's only be virtue of the Orks constantly beating the crap out of each other. If the Orks were to unite, everyone would die. Imperium, Necrons, et al. There's just too many of them. Star Child theory is just that, a Theory. And of course they win every game and novel. They're (supposed to be) the good guys. The good guys always win. But the core component of the whole universe is the slow decline of the Imperium. Humanity is currently losing its overall war of survival, the future theories of a resurrected emperor is irrelevant. They are losing right now. They're still top dog, no question. But for how long?

Brother Coa wrote:
The bottom line is, new Necrons are weak, weaker then Orks or Nids. They have small territories, incapable of advanced FTL travel witch makes them prior to isolation. They fight among themselves for power and didn't encounter large force to fight against, except for Lazar were they lost an entire Tomb World. They still have their tech, making them dangerious in local level, but on large galactic scale: in termes of power they are just little above Tau now.

Well, while I appreciate some of your arguments there, saying that "necrons are weak" is also a bit excessive. They still have the best tech in the galaxy after all (although other races are certainly not as primitive as the necrons might think).

Laodamia wrote:
Well, while I appreciate some of your arguments there, saying that "necrons are weak" is also a bit excessive. They still have the best tech in the galaxy after all (although other races are certainly not as primitive as the necrons might think).

Thank you, while this is true it is also all I stated above true. They are not united, they are outnumbered by almost everybody now ( Tau still don't outnumber them ) and they are spread all across northern part of the galaxy making them easy picking for the younger races. The only thing saving them now is all other races disorganization and small territories they held ( witch makes for perfect defense ). If Imoteck face the same Ork WARGHH Imperials faced on Armageddon he woudl lose because he coudn't kill so many Orks as they would overrun them.

EDIT: on the post above I will only say this: in battle for Armageddon Imperium had "only" 2.600.000 Guardsman in the ENTIRE WAR. Someone dig that up from Armageddon rulebook. No millions of Guardsman there. And Cadia is 3/4 under Chaos Control because all it's army's are somewhere else in the galaxy. Besides 8'th Cadian and 2 more Cadian Regiments there was 24 Regiments of Guard witch is again not millions of Guardsman, perhaps again 2 -3 million. Same as for every other Hive World in the Galaxy, they don't have millions of solders, just small PDF groups to protect them until help arrives.

Brother Coa wrote:

Laodamia wrote:
Well, while I appreciate some of your arguments there, saying that "necrons are weak" is also a bit excessive. They still have the best tech in the galaxy after all (although other races are certainly not as primitive as the necrons might think).

Thank you, while this is true it is also all I stated above true. They are not united, they are outnumbered by almost everybody now ( Tau still don't outnumber them ) and they are spread all across northern part of the galaxy making them easy picking for the younger races. The only thing saving them now is all other races disorganization and small territories they held ( witch makes for perfect defense ). If Imoteck face the same Ork WARGHH Imperials faced on Armageddon he woudl lose because he coudn't kill so many Orks as they would overrun them.

EDIT: on the post above I will only say this: in battle for Armageddon Imperium had "only" 2.600.000 Guardsman in the ENTIRE WAR. Someone dig that up from Armageddon rulebook. No millions of Guardsman there. And Cadia is 3/4 under Chaos Control because all it's army's are somewhere else in the galaxy. Besides 8'th Cadian and 2 more Cadian Regiments there was 24 Regiments of Guard witch is again not millions of Guardsman, perhaps again 2 -3 million. Same as for every other Hive World in the Galaxy, they don't have millions of solders, just small PDF groups to protect them until help arrives.

Ah, my mistake. Maybe it was older fluff (I skipped 4th edition because of school work and lack of money) in 3rd edition which said that Hive Worlds held whole Guard armies. My IG friend just said the same to me, so I apologise for being wrong about that. And technically, 2.6 million is millions. <__<

But to the point at hand. I'm not trying to argue that the Imperium is weak. Hell naw, they're the most powerful people going overall save perhaps the Tyranids. The problem is most of the threats the face are weaker than them through sheer chance and the Imperium is dying mostly because of its sheer size and the corruption within its leadership. And the Necrons, as they are now, are already a threat and are expanding. They're not top dog, simply because they are still waking up. That's the whole point. You can't write them off. Right now, they're about mid tier just as right now, the Imperium is top tier. The disorganisation and constant warfare between the lesser races is, funnily enough, exactly what is keeping the Imperium alive as well. If they are ignored, however....they will eventually become more powerful than the Imperium and everyone else. Their empire was once larger than the Imperium's after all, and that was at a time when they were fighting the Old Ones.

No hard felling brother Dytalus, after all - everybody has right to their own opinion.

Brother Coa wrote:

Laodamia wrote:
I think, I nearly chocked to death when reading your post.

Check this out: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440056_Imperial_Datasheet_-_Emperor_Battle_Titan.pdf

I'm not boasting about the IoM's strength or anything, but the necrons are not the only ones to have shiny toys. Nor do they have the sharpest teeth IMO.

No offense intended (and I mean it, keep cool ), but your posts almost reek of necron fanboyism. No need to get this lyrical when describing your utter satisfaction of seeing your fav faction crushing all of its opponents in their brand new codex.

It is true that the necrons are shown under a very favorable light in the latest codex, but guess what... every other race is also shown as a group uber-winning badasses in their own codices. Matt Ward (or the ghost writer behind the new cron dex, as some people claim) didn't invent anything.

After reading the nid or the ork codex, I was also under the impression that they would soon be the ultimate masters of the galaxy and that every other faction was doomed to extinction. But after regaining a cool and rational mind, I realized that it was normal for these races to be depicted this way in their own codex.


I think describing the necrons as the "apex predators of the galaxy" or the "tier 1" race in the Universe is a bit overreacting.

Thank you good sir for bringing reason in this thread. Thank the Emperor for that.

Titans carry troops.

Megaliths carry Monoliths.


Megalith >>>>>> Emperor Class Titan.


Necrons are the big dog now.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Titans carry troops.

Megaliths carry Monoliths.


Megalith >>>>>> Emperor Class Titan.

Uh....that was an April's fools joke done by GW and Beast of War. Megaliths do not exist in fluff nor on TT.

Necrons are the big dog now.

Nice try, you nearly have me going there for a nanosecond

Brother Coa wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Titans carry troops.

Megaliths carry Monoliths.


Megalith >>>>>> Emperor Class Titan.

Uh....that was an April's fools joke done by GW and Beast of War. Megaliths do not exist in fluff nor on TT.

Actually they do now. I lol'd when I read it. The Megalith is like a city which moves, and Monoliths are its buildings. It seems to be the ultimate invasion device from the little fluff it has in the Codex. It has teleporters to bring in troops, seriously powerful weapons described as swatting Thunderhawks from the sky, and it deploys Monoliths....which then deploy even more troops.

I don't remember it at all while reading in a codex. Cna you point me to the page?

Nevermind, find it...it is in Conquest of Uttu Prime. And to me it seems to be more of a spaceship than just ordinary war machine.

Brother Coa wrote:I don't remember it at all while reading in a codex. Cna you point me to the page?

Nevermind, find it...it is in Conquest of Uttu Prime. And to me it seems to be more of a spaceship than just ordinary war machine.

Perhaps, there's not a lot on it. In one way, it seems to be a more massive version of a Monolith, but in another it could be a warship capable of acting as a war machine. :/

Necrons aren't united at all. The codex clearly states this and each Dynasty acts independently of the others while trying to get an advantage over them at best, and at worse they fight each other (and this is very common). All the Dynasties are working to restore themselves to their former glory, yeah, but that entails fighting the other and civil war is common in Tomb Worlds (just see the Zahndrekh entry). Don't be surprised when Tomb Worlds start allying with "lesser" races to fight another Tomb World.

Hell, even going back as far as the Necrontyr you see that civil war was their #1 problem (the war against the Old Ones was retconned to be an attempt by the Triarch to unify the Necrontyr rather then them being jealous of the Old Ones long lives, a far more stupid/simplistic change imo).

After raping the C'tan from the story and making the Necrons motivated by honor, courage, and "ties of blood", I think the biggest goof was not making them united. Decreased their threat image enormously imo.

I'd be willing to accept all the new fluff if A.) C'tan were still pulling the strings (you could have had them do so while also powering them down on the battlefield or reducing their ability to physically manifest) B.) Necrons weren't so motivated by honor C.) Necrons were united

Since 2nd Edition, every faction's codex has depicted them as the baddest-assest army in the setting, and illustrated that with a list of examples of how they have crushed all their rivals at least once. Frankly, it got boring a long time ago.

Unless the Necrons take-off quite remarkably in sales terms, they will, fluff badassery or not, within month or two, go back to being footnotes for the next few years.

Harriticus wrote:Necrons aren't united at all. The codex clearly states this and each Dynasty acts independently of the others while trying to get an advantage over them at best, and at worse they fight each other (and this is very common). All the Dynasties are working to restore themselves to their former glory, yeah, but that entails fighting the other and civil war is common in Tomb Worlds (just see the Zahndrekh entry). Don't be surprised when Tomb Worlds start allying with "lesser" races to fight another Tomb World.

Hell, even going back as far as the Necrontyr you see that civil war was their #1 problem (the war against the Old Ones was retconned to be an attempt by the Triarch to unify the Necrontyr rather then them being jealous of the Old Ones long lives, a far more stupid/simplistic change imo).

After raping the C'tan from the story and making the Necrons motivated by honor, courage, and "ties of blood", I think the biggest goof was not making them united. Decreased their threat image enormously imo.

I'd be willing to accept all the new fluff if A.) C'tan were still pulling the strings (you could have had them do so while also powering them down on the battlefield or reducing their ability to physically manifest) B.) Necrons weren't so motivated by honor C.) Necrons were united

I agree on a number of points, I do think however that the two best generals fighting under the same banner pretty much ensures a united Necron conquest. Imo and Zahn are pretty much unbeatable generals that can only be countered by random Ork tactics. I'd say that overall the Necrons are a great villain for the current setting.

What I really hope is they are a prelude of villains to come... Hopefully we will see an actual evil Chaos down the road or a more aggressive Tau.


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English Assassin wrote:Since 2nd Edition, every faction's codex has depicted them as the baddest-assest army in the setting, and illustrated that with a list of examples of how they have crushed all their rivals at least once. Frankly, it got boring a long time ago.

Unless the Necrons take-off quite remarkably in sales terms, they will, fluff badassery or not, within month or two, go back to being footnotes for the next few years.

I've almost every dex and none of them do this as much as people think and none as much as Necrons.

The Blood Angel Codex has a bunch of narrow wins, a few defeats, some draws etc. Codex Space Marines also paints a few battles ups and downs. IG was back and forth, Tau was mostly wins that had follow ups in different dexes.

The Necron Codex is simply them beating the s*** out of everyone with ease. Not even GKs got the hot streak of wins like they did.

Dytalus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Titans carry troops.

Megaliths carry Monoliths.


Megalith >>>>>> Emperor Class Titan.

Uh....that was an April's fools joke done by GW and Beast of War. Megaliths do not exist in fluff nor on TT.

Actually they do now. I lol'd when I read it. The Megalith is like a city which moves, and Monoliths are its buildings. It seems to be the ultimate invasion device from the little fluff it has in the Codex. It has teleporters to bring in troops, seriously powerful weapons described as swatting Thunderhawks from the sky, and it deploys Monoliths....which then deploy even more troops.

Which is paltry when compared to the World Engine, which was destroyed by a battle barge full of Space Marines with Melta Bombs.

Harriticus wrote:Necrons aren't united at all. The codex clearly states this and each Dynasty acts independently of the others while trying to get an advantage over them at best, and at worse they fight each other (and this is very common). All the Dynasties are working to restore themselves to their former glory, yeah, but that entails fighting the other and civil war is common in Tomb Worlds (just see the Zahndrekh entry). Don't be surprised when Tomb Worlds start allying with "lesser" races to fight another Tomb World.

The Zahndrekh entry isn't him fighting actual rebels. He's fighting orks. He just thinks he's fighting the wars of succession, and so he sees everyone as Necrontyr he's fighting against.

Brother Coa wrote:Page 8: "As a race bereft of psykers, the Necrons are incapable of Warp travel, and without access to the webway, they would be forced to rely once more on slow voyaging stasis-ships, dooming them to isolation." And because webway portals are unstable and many times happened that they lose a number of solders they are forced to again use this ships. Witch are damned slow according to this paragraph.

Unfortunately someone now needs to tell the Tau that since they don't have psykers, they're going to have to start using the webway to get around too. At this point with the Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Harlequins, and soon, the Tau running around in there, it must be getting pretty crowded. There's also a gaping plot whole involving the World Engine, and just how it managed to trundle around nuking planets.

Removing the Necron's realspace FTL capability was a mistake. Sub-light speeds are stupid slow, even for intra-system travel, much less for travel between star systems.


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Dytalus wrote:

Harriticus wrote:Necrons aren't united at all. The codex clearly states this and each Dynasty acts independently of the others while trying to get an advantage over them at best, and at worse they fight each other (and this is very common). All the Dynasties are working to restore themselves to their former glory, yeah, but that entails fighting the other and civil war is common in Tomb Worlds (just see the Zahndrekh entry). Don't be surprised when Tomb Worlds start allying with "lesser" races to fight another Tomb World.

The Zahndrekh entry isn't him fighting actual rebels. He's fighting orks. He just thinks he's fighting the wars of succession, and so he sees everyone as Necrontyr he's fighting against.

That is some pretty funny fluff. "I'm not sure why they're painted green and yelling, but we'll give those rebels the old what for."

The Necron special characters are basically the opposite of the ones in the GK book. The Necrons each have individual motivations and personality quirks (or just flat out mental illnesses). The GK guys were simply an additional layer of hyperbole slathered on top of a chapter that had already been dialed up to eleven.

Bravo on the special character fluff.

Yeah, no FTL drive = no threat. They just can't do anything offensively to other races anymore. They can bust into the Webway, sure, but it tries to close itself off to them. Not to mention the Dolmen gates are unstable. Although, when Helbrecht attacked Imotekh's fleet, how did Imotekh "make his escape" on an escort vessel if they have no FTL? I think this is an issue of one writer taking over for another writer and had different orders from GW to make Necrons less of a threat than Chaos for 6th edition. Essentially, the inertialess drive was too good, so they took it away. Well, I guess they forgot to mention that they have some sort of FTL drive and don't just use the Webway, otherwise they would never get to very many places and would never be a large threat.

Unless of course, this was all just a money grab and GW doesn't really care if Necrons are a threat or not. Either way, this is all very silly and a tad depressing.