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Removal of the Necrons' fancy FTL was pretty bad. Somehow we're to buy that the Necrons created a galaxy spanning empire using sub-light travel (the galaxy is 100,000 LY across), then we're to believe that they somehow decided to have a civil war at sub-light speeds (never mind that it would take decades or centuries to even get around to declaring war, much less launch a decent attack), and then, finally, decided to maintain unity, they decide to throw their dirt slow ships at a different galaxy spanning empire that actually had FTL capabilities. Even if we ignore the fact that without FTL it'd take millenia for the Necron leaders to organize for a war, how stupid would you have to be to attack an enemy that has such a decisive advantage?

They should have left the Necron FTL alone, and just said that the C'Tan borked up the webway as part of a plan to cripple the Old Ones' ability to fight back.

I guess they didn't necessarily retcon it...But they never mentioned it at all and implied that they rely on the webway now...I think I need to read it more closely again

BrainDeleted wrote:
Uuhhh.

The Lord that Captured one of the Khans also happens to be the Lord who thinks he's still fighting Necrontyr in the wars of succession so that makes perfect sense that he'd let someone go for the above reasons. He thinks the marine is a Necrontyr warrior.

They still shouldn't be showing such mercy out of honor. In the grimdark of 40k mercy is hard to come by, so anyone who shows it comes off as quite heroic. The Orks/Tyranids/Chaos/Dark Eldar/most Imperial factions/even Eldar wouldn't contemplate mercy.

Why would an Overload want to waste his time and warriors killing Imperials if it is possible that they would surrender? This is the Lord described as dangerously low on troops because of his galactic travels to waken other Necrons. He wanted only to reach the tomb world beneath them. As for trading/allying/working with the Imperials...Hm...I see an example of demands of tithes from subjugated human worlds and I see a few examples of "allying" with Imperials when a greater mutual threat presents itself. If anything, they're just a little less mindless, destroy-all about their conquering of the galaxy. Gross over exaggeration.

He didn't offer them peaceful withdrawal out of practicality, the codex specifically said it was done because the honor of battle dictates. Necron society is specifically described as valuing "oaths of blood and honor" as immensely important, for a race of supposed machines.

Not to mention if the Necrons were really bent on galactic conquest and teach the lesser races some humility, they would want to sow as much terror and bloodshed as they could.

The Dynasty that's disliked because it's "too violent" is made up of flayed ones who try to consume flesh though it does nothing for them, wear skins and other grisly trophies because they're completely insane, ect, ect. It's not even just this that makes other Necrons wary of them...It's the fact that their horrible insanity is contagious...Oh, and it is a terrible curse afflicted upon their kind by a C'Tan. Yup, totally want to integrate that Dynasty into the greater Necron Empire. Totally not a good idea to destroy/avoid them. They're Necron too, after all.

Flayed ones used to have so much more depth, necrons who retained a part of their old selves and wanted to experience it again. Now it's just OMG VIRUS HATE THEM. I guess that's why I have such a problem with the whole concept

The Dynasty mistrusted for going back on its word.......Well, this should just be pretty darn self evident.

Ones word and honor shouldn't have any meaning for machines, but I guess I still want to see the Necrons as a machine race rather then the Necrontyr.

The Silent King doesn't want to save the Galaxy for heroic reasons. He wants to stop the Tyranids for the same reason Chaos and the DE want to stop the Tyranids: THEY DESTROY EVERYTHING. What's the point in dominating a galaxy full of burnt out husk planets? There isn't one.

Dude, he destroyed the protocol that would have allowed him to command the Necron legions as a whole (and thus easily assert their domination over the galaxy) because that was mean and dishonorable. He went on a self-imposed exile of penance. He's a heroic figure in the world of 40k, at worst an anti-hero. Really, the Necrons if anyone should come to a mutual understanding with the Tyranids if that were possible as they can't be consumed (though according to Ward they can, which makes no sense).

As for their overall threat level, they're still as they've always been. A half realized but inevitable and extremely potent threat. The fact that the largest Dynasty has ~80 (Where did you get this number?) worlds reflects that they're still not all awake and sleepy time continues.

You have specific entries about Tomb Worlds fighting each other and acting independent, they won't unite and won't ever be more then a localized threat, even with the return of the Silent King. Its been made clear that the Necrontyr Race was prone to disunity in the new codex (and the Necrons now are just the Necrontyr, there's no real difference anymore). Should the Tomb Worlds truly unite then they could be an existential threat again but that isn't going to happen, just as it won't happen with Orks or Chaos. Of course it would have been possible had the Silent King not destroyed the command protocol over all Necrons, but noooo that was too mean a thing to do.

And that is why the Necrons have been de-escalated as a threat. They used to be on the level of the Tyranids, immensely powerful and unified in goal/purpose, but now they are localized. The most powerful Sarutekh Dynasty is stated as just being a threat on the Imperium's Eastern Fringe. Not to the Imperium as a whole. The Imperium has gained a valuable boost in its strategic situation from this codex.

And the 80 numbers comes from GW's website about Imotekh.

Seriously, please don't degenerate into mindless hate, thread. Please.

It isn't mindless hate. It's legitimate criticism of the new fluff that I give with specific reasons as to why I criticize it. I don't see why I can't express that.

I don't simply bash anything that's new, I think the 5th Ed. DE Codex is one of GW's best ever for instance.

Fair enough. You didn't really give reasons, just hyperbolic, over simplified fluff the first go round which I why I responded as such. While I don't agree with you on most of your points, you've got a pretty valid opinion.

Though I gotta snipe the untrustworthy dynasty one...Don't matter who you are, if they keep plunging a dagger in your back, you ain't gonna trust them. It's logic, machines at least have that. And any understanding with the Tyranids is impossible. They don't negotiate (Anymore ). The Necrons simply aren't going to tolerate someone destroying THEIR galaxy.

daveNYC wrote:Removal of the Necrons' fancy FTL was pretty bad. Somehow we're to buy that the Necrons created a galaxy spanning empire using sub-light travel (the galaxy is 100,000 LY across), then we're to believe that they somehow decided to have a civil war at sub-light speeds (never mind that it would take decades or centuries to even get around to declaring war, much less launch a decent attack), and then, finally, decided to maintain unity, they decide to throw their dirt slow ships at a different galaxy spanning empire that actually had FTL capabilities. Even if we ignore the fact that without FTL it'd take millenia for the Necron leaders to organize for a war, how stupid would you have to be to attack an enemy that has such a decisive advantage?

They should have left the Necron FTL alone, and just said that the C'Tan borked up the webway as part of a plan to cripple the Old Ones' ability to fight back.

I agree with BrainDeleted. There's no way they forged a galaxy spanning empire with Torch Ships, they must have some form of FTL travel. It's just not mentioned in the books. They can't have used the Webway for this FTL travel, as it's expressly mentioned that they only break into it near the end of the War in Heaven. And, I don't think it's stated decisively but the way I understand the Dolmien Gates is that because they tear open the Webway, the gates they forge are unstable. The Webway tries to fix itself. So only armies use it, they don't seem to be able to move their actual fleets through en masse.

1. Helbrecht fought Imotehk and lost badly.

1 vs 1 - He got his ass kicked and his hand cut off. It wasn't even described as a tough fight, he could of easily killed him.

Ambushing a flagship with support vessels with a BT fleet then launching a boarding party isn't a 1 v 1. Imotehk wanted to stay, most likely because he knew in a 1 v 1 he would stomp the BT Chapter Master out twice no sweat. However, he is a logic bot and came to the conclusion it wasn't going to be a 1 v 1. Also, one flagship isn't a big deal to a Necron Overlord with as many Tomb Worlds at his command as Imotehk has. Building weapons for war isn't a lost art of zany fake magic science to Necrons, they simply build the best and haven't forgotten how.

2. Dolmen Gates give Crons the ability to enter the webway. They did mention that at one point the Necrontyr Empire had slow travel, but as the stories progress they are suggested as having fast FTL, though not as fast as the webway.

Edit: Plus the World Engine covered ground faster than a torch ship. IE they developed a solid form of FTL.

I myself really love the new fluff, and because the codex is so good (in my opinion) i'm going to start a necron army very soon!
Well... after Christmas...

DoctorZombie wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:I thought most of the fluff sucked, honestly.

I won't blame a vet Cron player for not liking the change. It's your baby and they re-wrote it totally. But some of the stuff is epic win.

Like how new crons dethroned the Imperium for power in the 40K setting. It's not even a contest anymore, they have a galaxy map that can make any star they desire go super nova. That's too awesome! I also can dig the different dynasties and the more descriptive backstory they give as to why they turned to the C'Tan.


Mostly I just love reading about really bad Imperial forces getting pantsed hard. The new dex made me happy because it was paragraphs of IG, SMs and Imperial Navy just getting owned.

Then again, I'm a huge Tau fan, so liking the dex was a double edged sword, as it paints Tau as borderline autistic.

I think the new fluff gives the crons more color, rather than just being mindless robots.

I always thought that was the point of the Necrons. If they're going to change it that much, it's not really the Necrons any more.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:2. Dolmen Gates give Crons the ability to enter the webway. They did mention that at one point the Necrontyr Empire had slow travel, but as the stories progress they are suggested as having fast FTL, though not as fast as the webway.

Edit: Plus the World Engine covered ground faster than a torch ship. IE they developed a solid form of FTL.

I look at the Webway as being roughly the same as the farcaster network in the Hyperion novels (read the first two, punch anyone who suggests the last two) allowing instant (or near instant for the web) travel to any point on the network. Travel would have been much faster and easier back before the C'Tan busted it up, not to mention the damage caused by the Fall.

World Engine would have had to have FTL capability, just not sure if that story still counts as valid fluff, since I'm not sure it was written with the Necron retcon in mind (unlike the BA story).

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Ambushing a flagship with support vessels with a BT fleet then launching a boarding party isn't a 1 v 1.

But is intended to become 1 vs 1, because why would you board a ship if you don't want to face the bridge crew and the capt'n..?

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Imotehk wanted to stay, most likely because he knew in a 1 v 1 he would stomp the BT Chapter Master out twice no sweat.

No.

BeefCakeSoup wrote: However, he is a logic bot and came to the conclusion it wasn't going to be a 1 v 1.

Its always a 1 vs 1 after boarding. There is no fun without following the ancient path of the 'leader vs leader' fight, established long ago as one of the major scenes in a story.
So logic would dictate it will be another 1 vs 1.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Also, one flagship isn't a big deal to a Necron Overlord with as many Tomb Worlds at his command as Imotehk has.

Getting kicked of his Flagship is not raising the mood of the Overlord..
Is there any newly built ship mentioned, except of the main fleet base which sends off ships at random courses...thus malfunctions a bit.
I'd love to have them have their own shipyards but it seems they just collect the tech stored anywhere pre-stasis.


Now, the main alteration that wasn''t mentioned yet ( or I missed this posted already ) was the whole 'accept tribute, demand respect'
theme Necrons got added. The Necron have zero interest in destroying the galaxy , harvesting all life or any other means as respect and tribute needs someone to pay. ( 829.M41 Aryand )

They even got so far to create incidents to send other factions against each other. ( 815.M41 explorer fleet 913 ).

1hadhq wrote:
Getting kicked of his Flagship is not raising the mood of the Overlord..
Is there any newly built ship mentioned, except of the main fleet base which sends off ships at random courses...thus malfunctions a bit.

Speaking of those ships, is anyone else a bit amazed that a broadside from a battle-barge was enough to drop the shields of a Tomb Ship? Either that means that the Newcron ships are weaker by far than what we're used to or the Templar's battle-barges are more powerful than we've previously thought.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
Getting kicked of his Flagship is not raising the mood of the Overlord..
Is there any newly built ship mentioned, except of the main fleet base which sends off ships at random courses...thus malfunctions a bit.

Speaking of those ships, is anyone else a bit amazed that a broadside from a battle-barge was enough to drop the shields of a Tomb Ship? Either that means that the Newcron ships are weaker by far than what we're used to or the Templar's battle-barges are more powerful than we've previously thought.

IIRC 'Cron ships were always kind of spongey to the lolhuge guns of the Imperium. Their strength came from their ridiculously efficient stealth systems which made them hard to target, and the self repair ability. Plus blinding speed and even more powerful guns.

daveNYC wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:2. Dolmen Gates give Crons the ability to enter the webway. They did mention that at one point the Necrontyr Empire had slow travel, but as the stories progress they are suggested as having fast FTL, though not as fast as the webway.

Edit: Plus the World Engine covered ground faster than a torch ship. IE they developed a solid form of FTL.

I look at the Webway as being roughly the same as the farcaster network in the Hyperion novels (read the first two, punch anyone who suggests the last two) allowing instant (or near instant for the web) travel to any point on the network. Travel would have been much faster and easier back before the C'Tan busted it up, not to mention the damage caused by the Fall.

World Engine would have had to have FTL capability, just not sure if that story still counts as valid fluff, since I'm not sure it was written with the Necron retcon in mind (unlike the BA story).

World Engine was essentially a Tomb World with its engines fired up.

It is mentioned in the Cron dex as the result of a civil war in which a more ambitious Lord took command of it and sent it on a path of destruction.


As for the BT vs Imotehk fight...

In a stand up fight with armies waging war against each other and leaders squaring off, Imotehk and his Dynasty are better then the Black Templars and Helbrecht at war. This is ultimately the reason why Helbrecht wants revenge so badly, he got defeated strategically and physically by Imotehk. Then when he should of been granted honorable death, he was humiliated and had his right hand taken off as a reminder of who his daddy was.


Helbrecht then thought he could outsmart Imotehk by ambushing him only to come up shorthanded (lol)



The ultimate lesson learned being that you shouldn't try to fist bump Necrons unless you're a Blood Angel and know the secret after bump sidewinder secret handshake. Otherwise, the Cron will take your hand off.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Helbrecht then thought he could outsmart Imotehk by ambushing him only to come up shorthanded (lol)

I love you. ^ _^

Oh and fyi, fights between Necrons and the IoM aren't actually fights. It's just the Imperium getting on its knees and begging for mercy or fighting to the last.

Megaliths > Titans, Mantas, Gargants, everything...

Technology is heavily in Necron favor and Tomb Worlds are basically World Engine / Forge Worlds that pump out insane armies that win almost flawless victories.

Necrons are all over the place, while they aren't numerous ants, they are top tier in 40K fluff, the ultimate Alpha Predator that only recognizes Tyranids as a threat.

Why would an Overload want to waste his time and warriors killing Imperials if it is possible that they would surrender? This is the Lord described as dangerously low on troops because of his galactic travels to waken other Necrons. He wanted only to reach the tomb world beneath them. As for trading/allying/working with the Imperials...Hm...I see an example of demands of tithes from subjugated human worlds and I see a few examples of "allying" with Imperials when a greater mutual threat presents itself. If anything, they're just a little less mindless, destroy-all about their conquering of the galaxy. Gross over exaggeration.

He didn't offer them peaceful withdrawal out of practicality, the codex specifically said it was done because the honor of battle dictates. Necron society is specifically described as valuing "oaths of blood and honor" as immensely important, for a race of supposed machines.

Not to mention if the Necrons were really bent on galactic conquest and teach the lesser races some humility, they would want to sow as much terror and bloodshed as they could.

The Necrons always had a bit of personality in their lords, who ultimately controlled the lower echelons of the Necron warmachine. I think it is fair to say that they were never really "only machines" but more like AI or Androids or Cyborgs. Also, I think all the Honor and protocol makes Necrons a step above other races. They still want to harvest, subjugate, blah blah, but they are far more "civilized" in their way of going about it that when compared to Dark Eldar or the Imperium who view everyone else as "lesser races" the Necrons actually prove they are a cut above the other powers. Atleast that is how I view it. It's a very Lawful Evil-Neutral viewpoint I think.

The Dynasty that's disliked because it's "too violent" is made up of flayed ones who try to consume flesh though it does nothing for them, wear skins and other grisly trophies because they're completely insane, ect, ect. It's not even just this that makes other Necrons wary of them...It's the fact that their horrible insanity is contagious...Oh, and it is a terrible curse afflicted upon their kind by a C'Tan. Yup, totally want to integrate that Dynasty into the greater Necron Empire. Totally not a good idea to destroy/avoid them. They're Necron too, after all.

Flayed ones used to have so much more depth, necrons who retained a part of their old selves and wanted to experience it again. Now it's just OMG VIRUS HATE THEM. I guess that's why I have such a problem with the whole concept

In Fall of Damnos which is supose to be a representation of the new fluff, the Flayed ones were still as you said along with how the new codex describes them. They were driven insane and wanted to experience life again, or be flesh again, so they draped themselves in the flesh of their enemies and tried to eat meat. Remember, Codecies are supose to be an overview of a race/army, just because the unit's entry doesn't same something about them doesn't mean that is the end all be all of their fluff.

The Dynasty mistrusted for going back on its word.......Well, this should just be pretty darn self evident.

Ones word and honor shouldn't have any meaning for machines, but I guess I still want to see the Necrons as a machine race rather then the Necrontyr.

See my first bolded point. Necron Lords were mentioned as having some personality in older fluff, that was expanded upon. I don't think it is a far stretch to think that their personalities, having been retained, are still moulded and build upon their original society/culture.

The Silent King doesn't want to save the Galaxy for heroic reasons. He wants to stop the Tyranids for the same reason Chaos and the DE want to stop the Tyranids: THEY DESTROY EVERYTHING. What's the point in dominating a galaxy full of burnt out husk planets? There isn't one.

Dude, he destroyed the protocol that would have allowed him to command the Necron legions as a whole (and thus easily assert their domination over the galaxy) because that was mean and dishonorable. He went on a self-imposed exile of penance. He's a heroic figure in the world of 40k, at worst an anti-hero. Really, the Necrons if anyone should come to a mutual understanding with the Tyranids if that were possible as they can't be consumed (though according to Ward they can, which makes no sense).

He is not a heroic figure to the universe. He started a galatic war, turned his whole race into souless robots, and then fought another war that devastated said race. He felt he had betrayed his whole race in the deal with the C'tan and sought to correct that, but that doesn't mean other Necrons would ever view him as such. He was the one that cursed them all to live out in metallic bodies with no feeling after all, I would doubt that any Necron feels like he is a heroic figure. I would go with he is an Anti-Hero if not a villain who sought to "correct his wrongdoing" in regards to his own race.

As for their overall threat level, they're still as they've always been. A half realized but inevitable and extremely potent threat. The fact that the largest Dynasty has ~80 (Where did you get this number?) worlds reflects that they're still not all awake and sleepy time continues.

You have specific entries about Tomb Worlds fighting each other and acting independent, they won't unite and won't ever be more then a localized threat, even with the return of the Silent King. Its been made clear that the Necrontyr Race was prone to disunity in the new codex (and the Necrons now are just the Necrontyr, there's no real difference anymore). Should the Tomb Worlds truly unite then they could be an existential threat again but that isn't going to happen, just as it won't happen with Orks or Chaos. Of course it would have been possible had the Silent King not destroyed the command protocol over all Necrons, but noooo that was too mean a thing to do.

And that is why the Necrons have been de-escalated as a threat. They used to be on the level of the Tyranids, immensely powerful and unified in goal/purpose, but now they are localized. The most powerful Sarutekh Dynasty is stated as just being a threat on the Imperium's Eastern Fringe. Not to the Imperium as a whole. The Imperium has gained a valuable boost in its strategic situation from this codex.

And the 80 numbers comes from GW's website about Imotekh.

You seem to forget this codex is also representing the Necrons are a still emerging and reawakening threat. Along with the fact that Imotekh's dynasty is suposidly expanding at an exceptional rate that it is a cause for concern already to the Ultramarines and the Tau.

Also, disunity is the common theme for the villains of 40k is it not? If any of the "Greater Evils"(Tyranids the exception) ever united for longer than 5 minutes and gave some thought into a battle plan they would ultimately devastate the Imperium/Tau/Eldar. So plot armor wins here. Also it does mention that the ultimate directive(s) of the Necrons are to reunite the Empire, and it does look like some of the Dynasties do want to do that, not to mention that there even is a special character going around gathering a massive army and forming alliances with other dynasties so said goal could be achieved.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Oh and fyi, fights between Necrons and the IoM aren't actually fights.

Exactly, just little plastic dudes shoved around on a flat surface.







Nercons want order. No longer a force of disorder ( evil ).
Looking forward to see your favorite xenos bend their knee before the cron overlords.

You can't really argue who would win in a fight between Imotekh and Helbrecht.

They have fought in martial combat once.

Imotekh embarassed Helbrecht, humiliating him. Imotekh told his own relatively paltry TT CC abilities to shut up for five minutes so he can go ahead and spank the Chapter Master of the Black Templars, a chapter renowned for their prowess in close combat.

... For the life of me, I'm not sure why people are eating up the Necrons being the invincible spankmachines in the fluff now. Since that was one of the main complaints regarding them when they came out (Which mostly resulted from misunderstandings with the fluff, IMHO).

Also, 1hadhq, the Necrons were always on the side of Order. They represented ultimate Order, the stagnation of life and space itself. They are now in fact much more chaotic than they used to be.

And here is something only for our good xeno Beef:

1hadhq wrote:Nercons want order. No longer a force of disorder ( evil ).
Looking forward to see your favorite xenos bend their knee before the cron overlords.

Just because you are not a force for disorder does not mean you cannot still be evil, or shades of grey, or are good. For instance if you look at D&D alignments you have Lawful Evil, which compared to Chaotic Evil(D. Eldar, or Chaos) is seen as "a well-ordered system as being easier to exploit, and show a combination of desirable and undesirable traits; while they usually obey their superiors and keep their word, they care nothing for the rights and freedoms of other individuals and are not averse to twisting the rules to work in their favor." It's also known as the "Dominator" alignment. What are Necrons if not a race of protocal and honor bound beings that want to rule and subjugate?

I would argue the new fluff certainly paints the Necrons as being less "Evil", but my point was that you can still be a force of order and be evil.

Void__Dragon wrote:
They have fought in martial combat once.

That combat was not fair.
Helbrecht has kill him several times, it is said in the codex. But each time he deal him a mortal blow his wound regenerate in split of a second and stike him back.
No wonder he fell to the ground after being mortally hit several times.

That's absolutely correct.

The Necrons were definitely a force of order in the galaxy, and definitely evil.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:That combat was not fair.
Helbrecht has kill him several times, it is said in the codex. But each time he deal him a mortal blow his wound regenerate in split of a second and stike him back.
No wonder he fell to the ground after being mortally hit several times.

That's like saying the Swarmlord didn't fight fair with Calgar by being really big and strong, aka a Tyranid Monstrous Creature.

Or me saying Helbrecht wasn't fighting fair by being much faster than Imotekh.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Imotekh embarassed Helbrecht, humiliating him. Imotekh told his own relatively paltry TT CC abilities to shut up for five minutes so he can go ahead and spank the Chapter Master of the Black Templars, a chapter renowned for their prowess in close combat.

... For the life of me, I'm not sure why people are eating up the Necrons being the invincible spankmachines in the fluff now. Since that was one of the main complaints regarding them when they came out (Which mostly resulted from misunderstandings with the fluff, IMHO).

Also, 1hadhq, the Necrons were always on the side of Order. They represented ultimate Order, the stagnation of life and space itself. They are now in fact much more chaotic than they used to be.

Yep Helbrecht was chosen , maybe the former BT vs Necron fluff 'inspired' one to add a BT vs Necron piece into the new fluff.?
Weird as it is, GW decided to release the 'finecasted' Helbrecht in November....and guess whose Hands weren't altered?

The invincibility idea here is only BeefCakeSoups doing.

Necrons had the same left unchecked and you will rue it status of the threats in the 40k verse as anyone else.
The trick this time is to obey the "don't disturb" sign on the door.

I suspect the theme order vs disorder as main line of 6th ed could come true, given the necrons new clothes ( codex ).
They still dislike orks and elves. Plus finally accept their duty of kicking the nids out.
They are order and surely always were, but the non-talkative Necrons had a bit of a wildcard.
The changes made moved them into a less destructive position in the gathering of the 40k species.

Marshal_Hadrial wrote:
I would argue the new fluff certainly paints the Necrons as being less "Evil", but my point was that you can still be a force of order and be evil.

I was aware of the RPG alignments used by D&D, just didn't think my post would open the can labeled "evil/good".
Should take more care next time, promise.

Necrons aren't evil as other races aren't good. I Admit It wasn't correct to use the term evil there.
Necrons got diversified so much, we can't be sure if every Necron with personality is similar in "alignment" . Because his body and maybe basic routines could be copies, and not individually created shells for the Necrontyr in question and the remaining "alignment" is maybe not a correct representation of the former Necrontyr. Some overlords did get things wrong after the great sleep and the Necrons got "humanized" a bit with the changes. The mechanicum may deem the machine perfect, we can see the machine is not perfect, given the example of the Necrons.

1hadhq wrote:Yep Helbrecht was chosen , maybe the former BT vs Necron fluff 'inspired' one to add a BT vs Necron piece into the new fluff.?
Weird as it is, GW decided to release the 'finecasted' Helbrecht in November....and guess whose Hands weren't altered?

Oh yeah, I forgot, the Black Templars were present at Damnos IIRC.

The invincibility idea here is only BeefCakeSoups doing.

I dunno man, Necron technology in particular has gotten a more quantifiable boost. A Necron Lord tricks an Ork into casually erasing both he and the planet he is on from existence, using some technology the Lord could apparently just give away.

Necrons had the same left unchecked and you will rue it status of the threats in the 40k verse as anyone else.
The trick this time is to obey the "don't disturb" sign on the door.

Only now the Necrons are a much more obvious and active threat than before, and yet only the Alaitoc Craftworld seems to give a damn.

I suspect the theme order vs disorder as main line of 6th ed could come true, given the necrons new clothes ( codex ).
They still dislike orks and elves. Plus finally accept their duty of kicking the nids out.
They are order and surely always were, but the non-talkative Necrons had a bit of a wildcard.
The changes made moved them into a less destructive position in the gathering of the 40k species.

Perhaps so. But I feel a lot was lost as well.

I was aware of the RPG alignments used by D&D, just didn't think my post would open the can labeled "evil/good".
Should take more care next time, promise.

You better be.

You know what a tactical genius would do?
Get his hand cut off, then it would fix itself with reanimation protocols.

I like to think of these new Crons as British, with Top Hats, and talking all funny British talk while twirling their metal mustaches.

Still haven't read it, though looking forward to it based on all the emotion spewed throughout these pages.

Necron supremacy is not an idea, it's pretty much fluff fact.

Necrons are unstoppable in their current portrayal. World Engines burn through Imperial fleets, Megaliths eclipse over cities, Necron forces are described as having several massive wars against the IoM, in which Hive Worlds are pretty much swept aside without Necron Rulers even thinking they are fighting actual resistance.

Necrons blow through the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, PDF, Space Marines, Tau, Eldar, and Imotehk probably has exterminated more races than the Emperor of Mankind.

Necrons are top dogs at the moment, Imperial forces are more likely to run then fight a foe that swats thunderhawks out of the skies and humiliates Chapter Masters.


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CpatTom wrote:You know what a tactical genius would do?
Get his hand cut off, then it would fix itself with reanimation protocols.

I like to think of these new Crons as British, with Top Hats, and talking all funny British talk while twirling their metal mustaches.

Still haven't read it, though looking forward to it based on all the emotion spewed throughout these pages.

It's pretty awesome.

Vet Cron players will have mixed feelings, but I like how they start the story 65 million years before the Emperor was even born. Narrative is not typical Ward writing, I have a strong suspicion a different person wrote fluff.

I don't know if necrons still hold the top spot. They use to, but it looks like they have been fluff nerfed. They are no longer united, there ships don't go fast. They don't seem to be the same level of threat. I kind of see them more likely to save humanity then doom it.

I will need to read some Black Library books on them before I decide.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Necrons blow through the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, PDF, Space Marines, Tau, Eldar, and Imotehk probably has exterminated more races than the Emperor of Mankind.

THey were in sleep around 60.000.000 years and before that they were mindless servants of the Silent King who onle defeated the Old Ones then C'Tan and then send them all to hibernation. No "exterminated" races here exept C'Tan and the Old Ones. And Emperor didn't exterminate any alien race, only his son Fulgirm had, and that is just 1 race, not races.

Necrons are top dogs at the moment, Imperial forces are more likely to run then fight a foe that swats thunderhawks out of the skies and humiliates Chapter Masters.

Hm...let me see....
Are they united? No.
Are they have superior FTL. No.
Do they outnumber Humanity? No.
Do they hold countless number of worlds? Beside several ones mentioned, No.
Do they suffer defeat sometimes? Yes, by both Imperials and Orks.
Are they top dogs? No. Imperium still hold the 1'st place being largest and most unified force in the galaxy.

New Necrons are actually weaker then the old ones.



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Ultramarinescout wrote:I will need to read some Black Library books on them before I decide.

There is only 1 book: "The Fall of Damnos"

Brother Coa wrote:Are they united? No.

Actually, they are more united than most of the bad guys. Their most basic programming is basically "enslave/kill everyone and take control again". While there's a few dynasties damaged and hence not following this command, it's probably no more than the number of Imperial worlds which rebel on a regular basis.

Are they have superior FTL. No.

Yes, actually. They definitely have some form of FTL not reliant on the Warp, which makes it better than the Warp. It might be slower, but they don't have to worry about showing up a hundred years late or being eaten by thought forms. Then there's the Dolmen Gates, which make them more mobile than the Eldar. Eldar have to rely on natural Webway Gates. Necrons can make their own.

Do they outnumber Humanity? No.

Considering that humanity needs to expend millions of soldiers to conquer a world, and the Necrons never really expend troops in the long run, this doesn't matter. Plus, it's also described that there are billions of Necrons sleeping on thousands of Tomb Worlds. And unlike humanity, every single one of them is some kind of soldier or weapon of war. Humanity has useless civilians at the lowest point (or if we're talking just military guys, the PDF), Necrons have their Warriors.

Do they hold countless number of worlds? Beside several ones mentioned, No.

Okay, valid point. They don't hold as many as the Imperium. I'd be willing to bet they come in second or third. To the Imperium. Both of them probably suck compared to how many worlds Orks control. God damn pests. :p

Do they suffer defeat sometimes? Yes, by both Imperials and Orks.

Shall we list the Imperial defeats of the 40k fluff? Damnos (Necrons), Sanctuary 101 (Necrons again), several million worlds at the hands of the Tyranids, the Cadian Gate as of the Thirteenth Black Crusade is no longer under complete Imperial control. Only Cadia remains a solid fortress, and even then there are Chaos forces entrenched there. And that's just from the codices I actually have access to (save the 13th Crusade, which I still have the newsletters for. I loved that Campaign.)

Are they top dogs? No. Imperium still hold the 1'st place being largest and most unified force in the galaxy.

Largest, yeah probably. But the fluff pretty much dictates that this won't last. The Emperor is dying, the Imperium's grip is rapidly decaying, they're losing ground everywhere to heretics, xenos and just general rebellion. I'd hardly call that unified. The Tau and Eldar are far more unified than that.

It's called the Time of Ending for a reason. : D