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Fido198674 wrote:Are there people really arguing over this? Its SCI-FI, anything is possible inside the 40k universe. I dont see people going on about the science of statis fields, or how the Golden Throne works exactly. Just because of this imma make a nid/marine now...... crap, my armor failed.....

NOT anything is possible, the 40k universe still has in universe perameters and rules governing how it all works, also 40K is SCI-Fantasy not SCI-FI. And if you have read the background forum before you will see people do ask those types of questions.

im2randomghgh wrote:^ Where did you get that from? Just curious.

Xeneology

squidhills wrote:Eldar can crossbreed with humans because of that old Rogue-Trader era character (who has already been posted in this thread) who was stated to be an Eldar/human hybrid.

They still can crossbreed, because at no point has GW published the following words: "Eldar and humans cannot crossbreed/reproduce with each other."

GW has retconned the idea, rogue trader was a long time ago and is now nearly completely retconned, also see xeneology.

im2randomghgh wrote:^ Where did you get that from? Just curious.

Xenology has the quantiple helix.

The unstable nature of uneven numbered helices comes from knowledge of chemistry and how inter(and intra)molecular bonds work.


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squidhills wrote:Eldar can crossbreed with humans because of that old Rogue-Trader era character

Retconned out of existence.

If you want to use RT era fluff, the lore would probably look FAR different than you realize.

Eldar/Human cuddling is all platonic, you silly sausage.

If an Eldar female requires "contributions" from multiple males to make a baby, so, and this is just a random spitball idea: the dna contributed my males is double helix, but it won't make a baby in an eldar until the requisite number completes the Xhelix, but in a human female, assuming they line up correctly, combines with her double helix based egg to make a double helix based "halfbreed" baby.

There we go, explained as scientifically as anything in 40k has ever been.

/thread

Human DNA is capable of forming quadruplexes but it's very localised due to the nature of the DNA sequence required for that kind of bonding.

I forget, has anybody mentioned Love can Bloom yet? I figured in a thread like this with so many pages, SOMEONE must have said something about it. Here's some more words because I don't want my post to have an extra line for only one word.

infinite_array wrote:

Not to mention that 40k is soft sci-fi at its softest. I wouldn't be surprised if GW said that the Eldar possesed a sextuple helix, if only because there's one universal law in the background - the rule of cool.

Well I'd say it is middle of the soft-hard scifi spectrum. Their explanation often laugh in the face of science, but they at least try to use scientific basis. And a lot of their materials seem to be hybrids of existing ones, rather than made up elements (some exceptions apply).

The difference being that their weapon descriptions aren't "OOGA BOOGA ABRACADABRA DEATH BEAM OF DOOOOOOOOOOM"

At the same time, not hard sci-fi, for obvious reasons.

"I'm only into hard sci-fi."

im2randomghgh wrote:

infinite_array wrote:

Not to mention that 40k is soft sci-fi at its softest. I wouldn't be surprised if GW said that the Eldar possesed a sextuple helix, if only because there's one universal law in the background - the rule of cool.

Well I'd say it is middle of the soft-hard scifi spectrum. Their explanation often laugh in the face of science, but they at least try to use scientific basis. And a lot of their materials seem to be hybrids of existing ones, rather than made up elements (some exceptions apply).

The difference being that their weapon descriptions aren't "OOGA BOOGA ABRACADABRA DEATH BEAM OF DOOOOOOOOOOM"

At the same time, not hard sci-fi, for obvious reasons.

40k is more of science fantasy rather than science fiction.

somehow reading this thread and seeing the above in n0t_u's sig, I can't unsee this as an "old one"

Belexar wrote:I forget, has anybody mentioned Love can Bloom yet? I figured in a thread like this with so many pages, SOMEONE must have said something about it. Here's some more words because I don't want my post to have an extra line for only one word.

No, I have not read that thing which does not exist.

Melissia wrote:

squidhills wrote:Eldar can crossbreed with humans because of that old Rogue-Trader era character

Retconned out of existence.

If you want to use RT era fluff, the lore would probably look FAR different than you realize.

Can you show me where GW said "This no longer exists"...? As I said, not talking about something isn't the same as it not existing anymore. GW didn't talk about the Star Child at any point during 2nd Edition, but they brought it back in 3rd Edition. Obviously, it still existed in 2nd Edition, it's just that nobody talked about it. The Squats don't exist anymore because GW said "they got eaten by a Hive Fleet" not because they haven't mentioned them in two editions.

im with Star Trek Enterprise on this one, they would have the baby, then it would die due to some random incompatibility.

that of course doesn't mean Spock 40k wont come around someday and unite the imperium and eldar into a super race of freak beings.

I definitely think it's possible. Only a handful would exist of course, and even if the social circumstances were sufficient, it would be largely down to luck whether the genes happened to fit together in a decent enough pattern to resemble life.

I'm no biologist. But I do believe it is possible, just very, VERY unlikely.

Just pure sex however, I don't think anyone can rule it out completely. There will always be a bunch of humans who are on a world long-forgotten by the Imperium who decide they don't really have a problem with the Eldar.
There will always be some Eldar who, through depravity (Dark Eldar perhaps) or just simply being different will also see no problem with humans. Eventually it will likely culminate in at least one "round" between an Eldar and a Human, and if they strike especially lucky, a little hyrbid baby perhaps?

All I'm saying is we shouldn't simply rule anything out, no-one completely understands the crazy universe of 40k, what advances may have been made in medical science, or even the Eldar themselves. We cannot rule anything out entriely.

Melissia wrote:

Belexar wrote:I forget, has anybody mentioned Love can Bloom yet? I figured in a thread like this with so many pages, SOMEONE must have said something about it. Here's some more words because I don't want my post to have an extra line for only one word.

No, I have not read that thing which does not exist.

Okay now... So... I guess what we have so far is that it's biologically possible but highly unlikely due to both species' cultural diferences. /thread?

*Errr never mind*.

Keep editing. Its not there.

How about we throw in some tau + eldar hybrids @_@?

Won't work with Tau. Humans and Tau don't have a genetic connection in any fluff. Fluff implies that both Humans and Eldar have common ancestors, or that they were created from the same original design by the Old Ones, but the Tau don't have a link to the Old Ones, or to any of their races they created, so no.

I imagine that scenarios like this fan storie did happened in 40k lore at some time:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Rape_of_an_Eldar

But what would be ending to this in 40k lore?
Would the Eldar get pregnant or not?

Brother Coa wrote:I imagine that scenarios like this fan storie did happened in 40k lore at some time:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Rape_of_an_Eldar

But what would be ending to this in 40k lore?
Would the Eldar get pregnant or not?

I take it that's a MUCH more likely thing to happen than the previously mentioned story that doesn't exist. Also, I still think it's biologically possible.

Belexar wrote:
highly unlikely due to both species' cultural diferences. /thread?

How many humans are there in the 40k universe?

How many eldar are there in the 40k universe?

Just those numbers ALONE raise the odds that a SINGLE HUMAN and a SINGLE ELDAR would get together a little bit above "highly unlikely"

I consider it more of a probabilistic certainty, much like rule 34, that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE in each race gets turned on by the other. With such an INSANE number of living members of each race AND the insane amount of time that has passed since eldar first contact, the odds that 1 of each run into each other and bang approaches 1:1

Talking about what "the eldar" or "the humans" would do in the context of individual personal relationships is actually pretty racist when you think about it.

Brother Coa wrote:I imagine that scenarios like this fan storie did happened in 40k lore at some time:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Rape_of_an_Eldar

But what would be ending to this in 40k lore?
Would the Eldar get pregnant or not?

That is one disturbing story...disgusts me that the noble Astartes have to count Guardsmen like them as brothers-in-arms.

Tadashi wrote:Won't work with Tau. Humans and Tau don't have a genetic connection in any fluff. Fluff implies that both Humans and Eldar have common ancestors, or that they were created from the same original design by the Old Ones, but the Tau don't have a link to the Old Ones, or to any of their races they created, so no.

So Tau/Human hybrids are a no go because they are not genetically similar, but Eldar/Human hybrids are (Hint: other than outward appearance, they have little to no biological similarities, just like the Tau)? One way or the other please. As unlikely as both situations are, they are still both possible. From a purely genetic standpoint neither should work, but crazy gak happens in 40k, and thus I am willing to say, that however unlikely I deem it to be, it could theoretically happen. In both cases. (Although Fabius Bile/DE type science would probably be an easier explanation for such a pairing, and increases the probability of occurrence dramatically.

Tadashi wrote:
That is one disturbing story...disgusts me that the noble Astartes have to count Guardsmen like them as brothers-in-arms.

Oh, so short of memory the Blood Ravens are. Innumerable atrocities befell the common human captured by Marines on terra. Might the Astartes remember their betrayal and horrors committed at their own hands before casting blame on the human Guardmen? There are innumerable Guardsmen who have stood to the same enemies of the Imperium without Power Armor to hide behind. Remember that, Blood Raven, lest you forget the greatest enemies to the Imperium are those Brothers-In-Arms who might carry the same gene-seed as you.

Tadashi wrote:Won't work with Tau. Humans and Tau don't have a genetic connection in any fluff. Fluff implies that both Humans and Eldar have common ancestors, or that they were created from the same original design by the Old Ones, but the Tau don't have a link to the Old Ones, or to any of their races they created, so no.

Actually it's hinted at that Eldar, unlike humans, do not have primate descent. Hence the appellation for humans "Mon-keigh".




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Tadashi wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I imagine that scenarios like this fan storie did happened in 40k lore at some time:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Rape_of_an_Eldar

But what would be ending to this in 40k lore?
Would the Eldar get pregnant or not?

That is one disturbing story...disgusts me that the noble Astartes have to count Guardsmen like them as brothers-in-arms.

LOL because you're a human too.

Saying humans lack innate nobility is a gross fallacy.

CpatTom wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Won't work with Tau. Humans and Tau don't have a genetic connection in any fluff. Fluff implies that both Humans and Eldar have common ancestors, or that they were created from the same original design by the Old Ones, but the Tau don't have a link to the Old Ones, or to any of their races they created, so no.

So Tau/Human hybrids are a no go because they are not genetically similar, but Eldar/Human hybrids are (Hint: other than outward appearance, they have little to no biological similarities, just like the Tau)? One way or the other please. As unlikely as both situations are, they are still both possible. From a purely genetic standpoint neither should work, but crazy gak happens in 40k, and thus I am willing to say, that however unlikely I deem it to be, it could theoretically happen. In both cases. (Although Fabius Bile/DE type science would probably be an easier explanation for such a pairing, and increases the probability of occurrence dramatically.

Tadashi wrote:
That is one disturbing story...disgusts me that the noble Astartes have to count Guardsmen like them as brothers-in-arms.

Oh, so short of memory the Blood Ravens are. Innumerable atrocities befell the common human captured by Marines on terra. Might the Astartes remember their betrayal and horrors committed at their own hands before casting blame on the human Guardmen? There are innumerable Guardsmen who have stood to the same enemies of the Imperium without Power Armor to hide behind. Remember that, Blood Raven, lest you forget the greatest enemies to the Imperium are those Brothers-In-Arms who might carry the same gene-seed as you.

Apparently, the naive and ignorant Tau do not seem to distinguish between the Emperor's warriors and those Traitors cast out of the Human Realms. And I never said all Guardsmen were like that. You should note I said Guardsmen like them, not all Guardsmen. And the Space Marines have never discriminated against the Guard. Some Chapters do, but most other Chapters detest said Chapters. If you care to note, the Space Wolves argued against the Inquisition over the outcome of the First Armageddon War, and the Salamanders ABSOLUTELY hate collateral damage.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Actually it's hinted at that Eldar, unlike humans, do not have primate descent. Hence the appellation for humans "Mon-keigh".

Well, i do know IRL people who refer to homo sapiens sapiens of negroid race as "monkeys"
At same time they _do_ know that their ancestors were apes at one point...like many european gentlemen of early XX century who approved "negros is inferior as they're less evolved race" theory.

And word "mon-keigh" is both insult and variation on "mankind".

One thing that can be of relevance to original topic - as we can see from number of sources, Eldar are definitely not just mammals, but have exactly same sexual dimorphism as humans (which btw is not as pronounced even in primates like shimps).

And just because the Eldar term deride Humans as mammals, that doesn't automatically mean they're not. It could just be a way to place themselves above another sentient race in the galaxy. And the Eldar consider all other races as animals. So they could be descended from mammals, and are mammals, they just deny it, just like those people who deny the Theory of Evolution.

Tadashi wrote:And just because the Eldar term deride Humans as mammals, that doesn't automatically mean they're not. It could just be a way to place themselves above another sentient race in the galaxy. And the Eldar consider all other races as animals. So they could be descended from mammals, and are mammals, they just deny it, just like those people who deny the Theory of Evolution.

More than that, it's common for people to refer to others people's different/archaic habits to distinguish themselves. So maybe Eldars just find habit of natural breastfeeding as archaic and barbaric as most of us think of placentophagy.

That makes them even more similar to us Humans.