Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They also have polymorphine to allow Assassins to shift into other species.......

The Tech is there but its unlikely it would be wanted - although I guess the Imperium might want to vat grow look alike Eldar to use as infiltrators or to expermiment ...........

BrainDeleted wrote:An Eldar female needs to mate repeatedly over an undefined amount of time to become pregnant. In this way, an Eldar can have several 'fathers' as each mating introduces some of the necessary genetic material. Pregnancy is longer than that of humans and more finicky. Double the amount of time, iirc?

Men.....sound like gangbang to me.

We do know Eldar have more chromosomes than us...
At any rate hybridism has only ever been observed by 2 members of a very close species e.g. Tigers and Lions
quote wrote:


There are a ton of half breed animais. Like a mule :a horse and donkey: dogs cyotties and wolves can all interbreed. Even the American Bison can breed with a regular cow. Not to mention all the sub species half breeds such as a mix btween say a mule deer and white tail. It actually happens quit frequently. And both Eldar and Humans were created
by the old ones wghos to say they arn't subspeices of each other, they're deffinatly similer enough

There are a ton of half breed animais. Like a mule :a horse and donkey: dogs cyotties and wolves can all interbreed. Even the American Bison can breed with a regular cow. Not to mention all the sub species half breeds such as a mix btween say a mule deer and white tail. It actually happens quit frequently. And both Eldar and Humans were created
by the old ones wghos to say they arn't subspeices of each other, they're deffinatly similer enough

Agreed, and there's an example in the fluff, however old, of a hybrid. It can't be said for certain either way, and that's the point. The 'imperium propaganda' approach also gives room for interpretation. Firstly the previously reported hybrid could be a baseless rumour. On the other hand it could be the case that the imperium play up the differences between humans and eldar so as to dismiss them as xenos, the closer they are, the more awkward it gets for the xenophobic imperials.

Really this should be a discussion based primarily on the fluff and fiction. There's nothing to say that hybrids are not possible, eldar and humans share an artificial creation. There's not much to be gained from trying to argue real science when there are so many fictional ideas in there. The laws of physics don't apply in warhammer either. Creating sentient living beings from two animal and one fungus DNA strands, as with the Orks, is a total nonsense for example, but we take it as a reality according to the 40K universe.

I've not explicitly said that eldar-human hybrids happen, only that there's no good reason to dismiss the possibility based on existing fluff. I don't see why anyone has to throw a wobbler because others don't agree that it's an impossibility.

The examples of half-breed animals bear an important distinction in most cases, however. They're all part of the same species, with very few exceptions, and it's important to note that in those exceptions, the offspring is infertile. Humans and Eldar may share original creators, but this does not make them of compatible species. Humans, being homo sapiens, are not necessarily compatible with Eldar, who, from the information I can find, are not homo sapiens or anything related to homo sapiens. They are not, as is the case with Elves from Shadowrun, for example, Homo Sapien Nobilis.

Given that we have very, very few references to any Human-Eldar cross-breeds in the fluff, and those that are evidenced are from an era of the game that has been all but ret-conned into oblivion, I think that at this point it's fairly safe to say that Eldar and Humans cannot interbreed. This is not to say that their DNA is 100% incompatible, it may be possible to use chimeric genetic splicing to create a test-tube baby or clone that makes use of genetic material from both species, but it would otherwise be impossible for Eldar and Humans to create hybrids sexually. The era of the Eldar being nothing more than Elves in Space is long, long gone.

I'm 95% certain that the Eldar have triple helix pattern dna that accounts for all their psychic-y nonsense, and unless you brought in some Fabius Bile type science, but at that point you are probably going to have some Croneburg style Fly thrown in there (Cause Bile just wanted to see what would happen, for da giggles).

Also, I think that while the Eldar outsides look quite similar, the insides are most certainly not what you are expecting (from a human perspective).

I'll have to go back and look for the source on all that for y'all (I know it was more recent than RT), maybe xenology?

Just my two cents, and understanding of reproductive science (although, as it is 40k, any number of reasons exist as to why this Half Breed has spit in the eye of logic (chaos pact, Mad science, psychic will, etc).

BrainDeleted wrote:An Eldar female needs to mate repeatedly over an undefined amount of time to become pregnant. In this way, an Eldar can have several 'fathers' as each mating introduces some of the necessary genetic material. Pregnancy is longer than that of humans and more finicky. Double the amount of time, iirc?

Pretty different than human mating.

Actually, I've read that Eldar gestation is one year.

Psienesis wrote:Given that we have very, very few references to any Human-Eldar cross-breeds in the fluff, and those that are evidenced are from an era of the game that has been all but ret-conned into oblivion, I think that at this point it's fairly safe to say that Eldar and Humans cannot interbreed.

Until a particular point IS retconned, it is not retconned. Anything canon requires either refutation of the point, or GW to post a refutation of the work it appeared in, even if it is RT era. To my knowledge there has been know such refutation, ergo crossbreeds are a thing.

I think it can generally be agreed that 40k takes a lot of liberties with science, and with that understanding we can safely state that any appeal to modern biology is completely non-sequiter. The only source we have is the sum total of canon 40k works, and thus without a book, codex, online article, or WD there is no basis of argument.

Tadashi wrote:
Actually, I've read that Eldar gestation is one year.

That would depend on when you consider the conception of the child...The first time a male donates genetic material to the ovum or the final time? Either way, it's a much longer process than it is for humans that much is clear though it's something the fluff leaves pretty vague with just an off hand sentence here and there in the DE and Eldar codices...Probably for good reason anyway.

Anything canon requires either refutation of the point,

There is no canon, there is only Zuul.

DeadGaurd wrote:

purplefood wrote:We do know Eldar have more chromosomes than us...
At any rate hybridism has only ever been observed by 2 members of a very close species e.g. Tigers and Lions

There are a ton of half breed animais. Like a mule :a horse and donkey: dogs cyotties and wolves can all interbreed. Even the American Bison can breed with a regular cow. Not to mention all the sub species half breeds such as a mix btween say a mule deer and white tail. It actually happens quit frequently. And both Eldar and Humans were created
by the old ones wghos to say they arn't subspeices of each other, they're deffinatly similer enough

Lions are Tigers (My example) do have the same number of chromosomes...
I'm not sure but i'm willing to bet that Horses and Donkeys do as well.
Eldar and Humans do not.
Incidentally i'm not sure how this thread has lasted so long...

purplefood wrote:

DeadGaurd wrote:

purplefood wrote:We do know Eldar have more chromosomes than us...
At any rate hybridism has only ever been observed by 2 members of a very close species e.g. Tigers and Lions

There are a ton of half breed animais. Like a mule :a horse and donkey: dogs cyotties and wolves can all interbreed. Even the American Bison can breed with a regular cow. Not to mention all the sub species half breeds such as a mix btween say a mule deer and white tail. It actually happens quit frequently. And both Eldar and Humans were created
by the old ones wghos to say they arn't subspeices of each other, they're deffinatly similer enough

Lions are Tigers (My example) do have the same number of chromosomes...
I'm not sure but i'm willing to bet that Horses and Donkeys do as well.
Eldar and Humans do not.
Incidentally i'm not sure how this thread has lasted so long...

Horses have 64, donkeys 62. Someone earlier mentioned humans and neanderthals; humans have 46, neanderthals 48. Two pairs of chromosomes in neanderthals are fused into a single pair in humans.

Off the top of my head you could argue that the eldar genome has the same content as human but divided into more chromosomes to increase genetic diversity in offspring through random chromosome assortment. I imagine this could be useful in a long lived species with a relatively small number of individuals - as compared to humans anyway.

As different species, they would likely have different numbers of X and Y chromosomes. Meaning no Hudar/Elmen

im2randomghgh wrote:As different species, they would likely have different numbers of X and Y chromosomes.

How on earth do you figure that?

Howard A Treesong wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:As different species, they would likely have different numbers of X and Y chromosomes.

How on earth do you figure that?

The majority of species have different chromosomes, there is no reason to believe the Eldar would have that in common with humans, meaning no offspring possible. If everything had the same chromosome structure, you could impregnate your dog. DO NOT TRY.

We know Eldar have different numbers of chromosomes. I wondered why you thought the number of X and Y chromosomes in particular would be different.

Anyway, shared chromosome number is not a requirement for offspring, have you read the thread?

I dunno though

http://eatatau.smackjeeves.com/comics/

Howard A Treesong wrote:We know Eldar have different numbers of chromosomes. I wondered why you thought the number of X and Y chromosomes in particular would be different.

Anyway, shared chromosome number is not a requirement for offspring, have you read the thread?

TBH I forget where I was going with that,

And either way, eldar pheromones would not affect humans, and vice versa, meaning there would be no inherent sex appeal between the two. An Eldar would do no more to arouse you that a squirrel, except maybe from afar/in pictures.

Again, I have a feeling I phrased that poorly.

Also, there are no stork to carry babies to parents on Craftworlds.

I think a human could find an eldar sexually attractive, what a strange argument. Some people shag sheep for heavens sakes, I think they could get it up for an eldar. Anyway, no one is suggesting that hybrids are common just a possibility and rare event.

And storks come from Earth and can't fly through space because there's no food. So I'll give you that one.

Howard A Treesong wrote:I think a human could find an eldar sexually attractive, what a strange argument. Some people shag sheep for heavens sakes, I think they could get it up for an eldar. Anyway, no one is suggesting that hybrids are common just a possibility and rare event.

Well I assume the people would go off for Eldar would be the RARE unstable person, the same kinda person who would attempt to "have fun" with their pets.

That combined with the difficulty of taking an Eldar prisoner...it probably has never happened, ever.

Why not a male eldar with a human woman? I don't understand why you think a person finding an eldar attractive has to be mentally unstable, they are very human-like. It's really not like having sex with a dog.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:I think a human could find an eldar sexually attractive, what a strange argument. Some people shag sheep for heavens sakes, I think they could get it up for an eldar. Anyway, no one is suggesting that hybrids are common just a possibility and rare event.

Well I assume the people would go off for Eldar would be the RARE unstable person, the same kinda person who would attempt to "have fun" with their pets.

That combined with the difficulty of taking an Eldar prisoner...it probably has never happened, ever.

Yeah...no. The Ordo Xenos and many Astartes Chapters have taken lots of Eldar prisoners.

I don't like the suggestion that it could only happen if eldar were taken prisoner and then presumably forced, that's not a fun direction I wanted this thread to go in.

For example there are eldar and human mercenaries that operate across the galaxy. There's no reason why it couldn't happen consensually.

As I said before, don't go into NSFW. That could get into trouble with the Administratum.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Why not a male eldar with a human woman? I don't understand why you think a person finding an eldar attractive has to be mentally unstable, they are very human-like. It's really not like having sex with a dog.

An enormous portion of human sexual attraction is pheromones.

ENORMOUS!

Without them, attraction is quite shallow and weak. Certainly not enough to cause a man to rape an Eldar, for that is surely the only way it would happen.

Although I do think it quite feasible that a Dark Eldar would commit horrible filthy violation of a human of either gender.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Why not a male eldar with a human woman? I don't understand why you think a person finding an eldar attractive has to be mentally unstable, they are very human-like. It's really not like having sex with a dog.

An enormous portion of human sexual attraction is pheromones.

ENORMOUS!

Without them, attraction is quite shallow and weak. Certainly not enough to cause a man to rape an Eldar, for that is surely the only way it would happen.

Although I do think it quite feasible that a Dark Eldar would commit horrible filthy violation of a human of either gender.

Yes, but not completely. The possibility of attraction is still there.

Tadashi wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Why not a male eldar with a human woman? I don't understand why you think a person finding an eldar attractive has to be mentally unstable, they are very human-like. It's really not like having sex with a dog.

An enormous portion of human sexual attraction is pheromones.

ENORMOUS!

Without them, attraction is quite shallow and weak. Certainly not enough to cause a man to rape an Eldar, for that is surely the only way it would happen.

Although I do think it quite feasible that a Dark Eldar would commit horrible filthy violation of a human of either gender.

Yes, but not completely. The possibility of attraction is still there.

Again, looking at a picture they might say "hot damn!" but in person the thought wouldn't even cross their mind.

Especially with the "xenos filth" education of Imperial Servants.

im2randomghgh wrote:
An enormous portion of human sexual attraction is pheromones.

ENORMOUS!

Not conclusively demonstrated to be the case in humans by a long way. Anyway, as I said people are more than capable of enjoying themselves with animals, inanimate objects and pictures. So really, a sexy space elf could do it for a human guy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:Again, looking at a picture they might say "hot damn!" but in person the thought wouldn't even cross their mind.

No offence, but I think you're probably young/naive to think of sexuality in such a constrictive manner.

How likely are you to fall in love with a chimpanzee?

Not very likely, I would imagine.

The Eldar are not humans with pointy ears. They're aliens. More importantly, they're aliens with a superiority complex the size of the galaxy and they view humans as little more than very clever, and extremely violent, beasts. Are you looking to shack up with an enraged ape? No? Likewise, Eldar are not interested in sexual activity with a Human.

There's no cause for common ground or inter-personal relationships between Humans and Eldar. The Eldar barely consider humanity to be intelligent life, let alone viable partner material for a Saturday night date at the discotheque. Add to this that, the Eldar are a race accustomed to repressing their emotions and living lives of rather severe austerity.

Let alone the fact that most human beings they will encounter, especially in the wild and freewheeling lifestyles of mercenaries, are younger than Eldar children. Eldar live for centuries, the more powerfully psychic Eldar live thousands of years... there's a filter of experience and accumulated wisdom to the average Eldar that none but the most exceptional human would ever be able to equal, let alone understand.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
An enormous portion of human sexual attraction is pheromones.

ENORMOUS!

Not conclusively demonstrated to be the case in humans by a long way. Anyway, as I said people are more than capable of enjoying themselves with animals, inanimate objects and pictures. So really, a sexy space elf could do it for a human guy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:Again, looking at a picture they might say "hot damn!" but in person the thought wouldn't even cross their mind.

No offence, but I think you're probably young/naive to think of sexuality in such a constrictive manner.

1. Though That may be the case, MHC IS fairly conclusive in it's results, and it is something you can't get from a picture. Plus, as I said, it would be that 0.0001% of the population that thinks their dog is sexy who would be thinking about Eldar in that way.

ALSO, being in the presence of a psychic being is supposed to be a HUGELY, profoundly disturbing experience for most being in the galaxy.

2. What I was saying was basically the same as point #1, a picture of a shmexy space elf would be just as...inviting as a picture of a sexy space woman, but without MHC and pheromones in person, combined with the psychological shock of being near a psychic being, combined with humanity's most basic fear: the unknown (the alien) manifesting itself as extreme xenophobia, PLUS the hate the xenos indoctrination of the IoM, fight or flight is the most likely instinct when seeing one, not fight flight or bone.