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ph34r wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Sure, that's what 40k is all about. But we will never be able to use them on tournaments, like my Imperial Necrons and Tau.

Just because your fluff is awful does not mean you can't compete in tournaments.

Depends on the proxying rules and rules on what percentage need to be GW models.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

shadowsnip wrote:Any sister can be captured and possessed by a daemonette but as far as the TRUE fluff is that only one sister ever turned to chaos willingly.

However the black library says a few have turned but I don't count that as canon.

That was from the 2nd Edition Codex. In the same series of Codexes, the Ultramarines were campaigning on the far side of the galaxy and their contribution to the Heresy was to smash Horus's reinforcements.

The canon has changed. Neither story (1 sister to Chaos, nor the Ultramarines smashing the reinforcements) still exists in the fluff. It changed and somebody realized that there's nothing special about the Sisters to make them immune to Chaos. Get over it.

Both still exist.
1 Sister falling to Chaos is still there.
Ultramarines defeated every Chaos ongoing troops after they dealt with Word Bearers.


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ph34r wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Sure, that's what 40k is all about. But we will never be able to use them on tournaments, like my Imperial Necrons and Tau.

Just because your fluff is awful does not mean you can't compete in tournaments.

No, it's a general rule.
Imperial forces stay Imperial and non-Imperial forces stay non-Imperial.
Same goes for Chaos Sisters.

Brother Coa wrote:No, it's a general rule.
Imperial forces stay Imperial and non-Imperial forces stay non-Imperial.
Same goes for Chaos Sisters.

"General rule"? I can think of no tournament that would deny you as long as your models were correct and everything was WYSIWYG, no matter how dumb a theme the army is.

Here the rules are like that.
Only official army's, custom Chapters, Warbands, Sept's approved.
No crossovers of any kind, and that includes Chaotic Orks or Sisters.
Here, if you put Chaos Sings on Imperial Astartes and you singed them as Space Marine Renegades you can't play. You can play only as Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines, everything else is not included.

Brother Coa wrote:Both still exist.
1 Sister falling to Chaos is still there.
Ultramarines defeated every Chaos ongoing troops after they dealt with Word Bearers.

Um, no, they aren't. The Battle of Calth can be found in White Dwarf 270 back in 2002. If you look in the 5th Edition Space Marine codex, there is no mention of the reinforcements (no mention of it at all in the 3rd or 4th). This is because when the original Codex: Ultramarines was written, the universe had much less fluff describing it.

And there is no mention of the "1 Sister" in either Codex: Witch Hunters or the new White Dwarf codex, but there have been published instances of possessed sisters and several where they've been either dominated or otherwise turned/controlled which automatically infers a change in the canon interpretation of the Sisters. As stuff has been fleshed out, things have changed. Dark Eldar didn't even exist in the fluff when either of those codexes were written, and the Tau had yet to have been introduced either. Things change. And you just adapt and accept the changes.

Brother Coa wrote:Here the rules are like that.
Only official army's, custom Chapters, Warbands, Sept's approved.
No crossovers of any kind, and that includes Chaotic Orks or Sisters.
Here, if you put Chaos Sings on Imperial Astartes and you singed them as Space Marine Renegades you can't play. You can play only as Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines, everything else is not included.

Wow, that sucks.

ph34r wrote:Wow, that sucks.

I know, I wanted to play with Necrons. When I told them I wanted to do Imperial Necrons ( Necrons who would fight for the God Emperor ) they told me this rule.
I could only play Necrons and Necrons, no other combos included.
Same was when we have regional tournament with people coming from 10 countries in region.


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Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Um, no, they aren't. The Battle of Calth can be found in White Dwarf 270 back in 2002. If you look in the 5th Edition Space Marine codex, there is no mention of the reinforcements (no mention of it at all in the 3rd or 4th). This is because when the original Codex: Ultramarines was written, the universe had much less fluff describing it.

It is said that they destroyed every Chaos force they encountered in their way to Terra - those were reinforcements for Horus even if that wasn't mentioned.

And there is no mention of the "1 Sister" in either Codex: Witch Hunters or the new White Dwarf codex, but there have been published instances of possessed sisters and several where they've been either dominated or otherwise turned/controlled which automatically infers a change in the canon interpretation of the Sisters. As stuff has been fleshed out, things have changed. Dark Eldar didn't even exist in the fluff when either of those codexes were written, and the Tau had yet to have been introduced either. Things change. And you just adapt and accept the changes.

I will, after the Sister codex 6'th edition arrive and tells the same story about that one Sister falling and every other remained pure. Until then we will embrace the old fluff as we have until now, get over it.

It is said that they destroyed every Chaos force they encountered in their way to Terra

Now you're just making things up. Fair enough.

Until then we will embrace the old fluff as we have until now.

That's my point. The old fluff you have says that other Sisters have been corrupted.

Melissia wrote:

Muhr wrote:I'm only aware of the Demonifuge.

Which is where they were mind controlled by a greater daemon of tzeentch (I believe?)....

Of Slaanesh. And it wasn't mind control, it was corruption through such old-time favorites like (I assume) crazy dreams and visions, whispers in one's head, the creeping taint where forbidden thoughts are stirred and focused - as it is often described in detail in other books. Though there seem to be two instances in the story: The slow corruption of individual Sisters Pronatus at the start even before the Order relocated to Parnis, and the instant(?) possession of the Orders Militant rescue team that was sent to check up on the convent. The latter could well be direct mind control, I suppose.

"Once we were as you. Once we were Sororitas. Ours was not the way of battle, rather, we followed the winding path of study.
We found our direction when IT was discovered - a Greater Daemon of Slaanesh, a Keeper of Secrets.
We knew not how it came to be imprisoned, but our course was clear - perhaps through study we might better understand the enemy and learn its weaknesses.
The price was high. Many of our number succumbed to its lies and whispers, and had to be put down by sword and fire.
So we moved the study here. Hidden from righteous eyes, until we were certain our knowledge was safe to share.
For three hundred years we continued our blessed inquiry, and the Imperium forgot we ever existed.
Our studies were finally ended when IT escaped.

He considered himself an artist of pain. We are his masterpiece.
Our souls were not enough - he needed still more to leave the plane and return to the great darkness which spawned him.
When you and your comrades arrived, Asteroth was waiting and claimed those of you not strong enough to resist him.
Sister slew Sister. It was not long before you alone remained."

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

shadowsnip wrote:Any sister can be captured and possessed by a daemonette but as far as the TRUE fluff is that only one sister ever turned to chaos willingly.
However the black library says a few have turned but I don't count that as canon.

That was from the 2nd Edition Codex. In the same series of Codexes, the Ultramarines were campaigning on the far side of the galaxy and their contribution to the Heresy was to smash Horus's reinforcements.
The canon has changed. Neither story (1 sister to Chaos, nor the Ultramarines smashing the reinforcements) still exists in the fluff. It changed and somebody realized that there's nothing special about the Sisters to make them immune to Chaos. Get over it.

I'd have to intervene here.

1) "Only one Sister having been turned" was not mentioned in any Codex or any other studio book at all. I've checked both the 2E and the 3E one and nowhere did I find any mention of this instance. Whoever wrote that into Lexicanum was simply wrong. Miriael Sabathiel was a creation by Sabertooth Games who did the Dark Millennium Trading Card Game for 40k, and Dan Abnett wrote a short story about her. That's it.

2) At least up to the 3E Codex, there were zero changes in Sororitas fluff from studio perspective. The Designer's Note outright clarify that even the Rogue Trader snippets were still held as sacrosanct by the time the Witchhunters Codex was written.
This did not prevent them from mentioning Parnis in a WD article, mind you - but as Gav Thorpe explained on his blog, the studio often adopts individual details from certain licensed material whilst ignoring the rest. One could also argue that Parnis doesn't count as it weren't SoB but Sisters Pronatus. Not that it matters much.

3) There is no canon in 40k. Only a lot of overlapping interpretations. Pick the things you like and feel free to ignore the rest. It's what BL and FFG writers do all the time, too - as they publicly stated, and which should explain why there are at times glaring contradictions between licensed publications and studio material. In terms of consistency, it sucks - but by now I'm rather fortunate I can pick and choose, for there's a load of groxcrap that has found its way into the fluff, particularly from the BL direction.

So wait, the snippet of "proof" that so many people are hanging their hats on doesn't even actually exist? I flipped through the 2E Codex: Sisters at one point recently, but didn't find it. It really came down to not caring enough to actually scour a bunch of fifteen year old fluff for a single sentence. Shame on me for assuming that the overzealous Sister Trolls had to be right about something just because they were so fervently insistent of it.

So then the actual answer to this thread, that could have been solved on Page 1 is "Yes, like Space Marines, they can and will turn at the drop of a hat depending on what kind of cheap narrative tool an author needs."

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

It is said that they destroyed every Chaos force they encountered in their way to Terra

Now you're just making things up. Fair enough.

So I am making things up that are stated in codex?
I am done here, there is no reasoning with you...

Veteran Sergeant wrote:So wait, the snippet of "proof" that so many people are hanging their hats on doesn't even actually exist? I flipped through the 2E Codex: Sisters at one point recently, but didn't find it. It really came down to not caring enough to actually scour a bunch of fifteen year old fluff for a single sentence. Shame on me for assuming that the overzealous Sister Trolls had to be right about something just because they were so fervently insistent of it.

So then the actual answer to this thread, that could have been solved on Page 1 is "Yes, like Space Marines, they can and will turn at the drop of a hat depending on what kind of cheap narrative tool an author needs."

Sort of. The consensus - at least as far as GW is concerned - would seem to be that they are considerably harder to corrupt due to their singleminded faith and conviction, which quite simply makes them more dedicated than the Marines, who also care about more "personal" stuff such as honor and Chapter history (which can be turned into a weakness when they'd have to choose between their pride and their duty to the Imperium).

But in the end, as with any and all details of the 40k fluff - yes, it comes down to whoever writes something about it. Which is why we have so many occurrences in Black Library novels where the author completely failed to produce anything resembling the faction presented in GW's own material. Buuut I'm sure some people get a perverted sense of satisfaction from reading that sort of stuff.

Gav Thorpe wrote:Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong.

Brother Coa wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

It is said that they destroyed every Chaos force they encountered in their way to Terra

Now you're just making things up. Fair enough.

So I am making things up that are stated in codex?

That's exactly what you're doing. Do you think I don't have access to that Codex? That I can't look at it, and verify that what you said is not actually printed in it?

Veteran Sergeant wrote:That's exactly what you're doing. Do you think I don't have access to that Codex? That I can't look at it, and verify that what you said is not actually printed in it?

"Upon learning of the treachery, Roboute immediately set course for Terra, destroying Chaos reinforcements along the way, but arrived after the war had already been won. Because of this, the Ultramarines were one of the few Legions at full strength; thus, Roboute and his Ultramarines bore much of the burden of holding the Imperium together against aliens and Chaos forces in the aftermath of the Heresy. During this time, the Ultramarines recruited heavily from their homeworld and eventually counted for over half of the Loyalist Marines. Around a decade after the Heresy ended, the Imperium finally reached a point of stability."

I'm going with yes, and lots of times.

I'm even reckoning on all four powers at one time or another, however I don't need to see that in a book.

Thats just my view of the 40K universe, although they are faithful, faith sadly has shown itself to be too danged easy to corrupt with the right ammount of motivation, and some of these Chaos powers have that in spades.

Hell Tzeentch would just do it for giggles, he'd not even realy need any long thought out plan for the reason, just .. because.

Of course my view of the 40K universe may differ to thine own.

Morathi, you just want to see a tied up Sister make out with the old (and better looking) Daemonette models, don't lie, we all know it's true

He's not saying nothing.


Although my current desktop is a very nice Khorne Sisters pic, I lifted from Brooks thread in DCM.


One of the things I must admit I am looking forward too is the new sisters codex, just as all the background material in there has to be focused on them for the first time in ages, will be eager to see what the team come up with.

People are REALLY obsessed with fallen Sisters these days...

these days.. you new to the hobby lad?

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:these days.. you new to the hobby lad?

Yeah, seriously.

People have always gone the boring generic "take [army name here], add Chaos!" route to try to give themselves that special snowflake feeling.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:these days.. you new to the hobby lad?

No, but I am quite orthodox. And see more in Sisters then just boob girls with guns.

Aye, so do I.. don't let the avatar fool you.

Brother Coa wrote:

DeffDred wrote:
If you want to create an army or write a story or draw a picture ect. of Sisters who are "Turned" that's your call to make.

Sure, that's what 40k is all about. But we will never be able to use them on tournaments, like my Imperial Necrons and Tau.

You can't use pink sisters with chaos symbols in a tournament?? thats BS! I think it should be okay as long as you follow the bloody codex!

What would you play them as, Traitor Guard? They wouldn't get their Acts of Faith powers, they no longer have faith in the God-Emperor, which is the origin of those powers. You'd have to treat them like some oddball Chaos Sorcerer or something, I guess.

Eh, they just become "Acts of Debasement" and end up as a "Counts As" army like every other "Counts As" army.

People play Space Marine armies using the Space Wolves or Blood Angels codexes all the time, even though their armies might not be furries or Twilight rejects.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
People play Space Marine armies using the Space Wolves or Blood Angels codexes all the time, even though their armies might not be furries or Twilight rejects.

Do not ever again compare Sons of Sanguinius with that joke of a movie. Blood Angels have some pride for Emepror's sake...

well, I never have been fond of warrior nuns so even if it was possible for ALL of them to convert to chaos, I wouldn't care.
*prepares for *

Um, thanks for bumping this thread with this sophisticated and relevant message, I guess.

Lynata wrote:Um, thanks for bumping this thread with this sophisticated and relevant message, I guess.

I guess that we need more then 8 pages for this

google "Sister of Nurgle" - a short story about a sister of battle that turns to the dark powers of Nurgle...