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Nah its all what i said

also the cost of production is cheap

53% damn. Hopefully people will actually stop buying GW boycot or no from this and they'll drop prices.

gendoikari87 wrote:53% damn. Hopefully people will actually stop buying GW boycot or no from this and they'll drop prices.

I doubt 197 lost players will convince GW to lower thier prices

Honestly, the prices aren't that bad. Think about filling your gas tank, cigarettes, random snacks, and a bunch of other stuff that you don't really need. 40k is a great game and the money that I spend there is better spent than money elsewhere, like most games that are as much as Land Raider yet don't see as much use.

[Votes NO]

I only buy books from GW, they have a horrible tendency to over-react to IP protection and it generally appears that their corporate/admin side is much larger than their creative 'for the spirit of the game' side; but I still wouldn't go as far as boycotting them as it's nice to see a wargaming company doing well in the wider market and doing work to gain more players rather than letting 40K slowly die as a 'cult hit'. For all their faults, the highstreet and indeed the hobby itself would be a worse place without them.

Hell, I haven't bought anything directly from GW in years. Ebay and Bartertown take core of my needs just fine.

don_mondo wrote:Hell, I haven't bought anything directly from GW in years. Ebay and Bartertown take core of my needs just fine.

Same, unless I am near a store and I am really in need of something. Ebay and thewarstore for me.

Joey wrote:If you can have a night out for the same cost as a box of troops or even a tank, you're having rubbish nights out.
Less whinging, more playing.

$66 is a crappy night out? you're either an alcoholic or rich.

phoenixrisin wrote:

Joey wrote:If you can have a night out for the same cost as a box of troops or even a tank, you're having rubbish nights out.
Less whinging, more playing.

$66 is a crappy night out? you're either an alcoholic or rich.

This, to me, is possibly the silliest argument I've ever heard, coming from both ends. It's not one or the other, people. You can go bowling, or see a movie, instead of going to the bar. Or, you could get a tactical squad instead of a Land Raider. This is called basic budgeting, people. It's something grownups do.

to all those defending GW on this price rise, I recommend you look up Stockholm Syndrome

For how much work that i can put into a GW model its worth it. i can spend 50-60 bucks on a PC game an be entertained for a week. Or i could drop 50-60 buck on something like a box of assault terms or even a tac squad and i have something to do for a good month, assembling each one. priming basing highlighting ect ect not even counting actually playing the game. Also its a hobbie, its not meant to be cheap its meant to cost time and money.

But if you look at its competitors, mantic for example, they offer the same quality models at a massive half of GW's price.


24. 75 $ for 10 ghouls, or 1 ghoul for roughly 2 dollars.


46 $ for 50 ghouls or 1 ghoul for roughly 1 dollar.

Edit: Fixed the images.

Vendetta 476 wrote:But if you look at its competitors, mantic for example, they offer the same quality models at a massive half of GW's price.


24. 75 $ for 10 ghouls, or 1 ghoul for roughly 2 dollars.

Edit: Fixed the images.

I'll just play devil's advocate right here and say that with gamesworkshop, i can get 11 boyz for, if I remember correctly $22.75, which are all great quality, come with options for slugga and shoota, along with a power klaw and 2 special weapons. I also get a substantial amount of bitz, not even counting all the extra arms I will have due to two equitment loadouts being in one box. Seems like you pay more for each of those gouls, and they all seem to be rather similar in equiptment. GW seems to win out by a little right here.

I don't know any of GW's box sets that sell 50 guys in a single box, so I can't speak for the second image. Really, I think that most of GW iinfantry models are fine. Perhaps 5 mans elites ought to run a little bit less than 10 men troops, and the cult units for CSM really should be sold in equal amounts, and maybe termies could do with a small price drop (except the GK ones, which come with a plethora of bitz and options, fantastic kit right there).

I just don't like paying so much for tanks and walkers and transports. Rhinos and razornbacks are pretty small models, along with most transports really. Tanks are obviously bigger, but are still pretty expensive, and walkers can get pretty bad, besides killa kanz, anouther great kit. Some of the lighter walkers should be sold in $44.50 for three kits like the killa kanz, such as war walkers, sentinals, and maybe broadsides or other battle suits, even though they aren't walkers. The single walkers should take a jump down and cost roughly $35. Alss, it'd be really nice if they could make finecast optional, but that'll never happen, so whatever.

This thread is just like all the others. A buncha plastic junkies complain about their dealer raising prices, but in the end they keep on buying because they can't bear to quit. If you don't like GW, then don't buy from them. It's as simple as that. I haven't bought in GW stuff in over a year and I'm the most weakminded person I know, so it can't be that hard.

People should also take a look at related hobbies, like building model trains, airplanes, and cars. It is very easy to buy a model car that costs $30-$50, and said car generally comes with less detail, fewer options (bitz), and doesn't come with a game that you can play with other people.

Paying $35 for a drop pod really isn't out of scope with paying $35 for a model vehicle outside of the world of GW.

My budget for purchasing hobby stuff has not change. What this simply means is that there will be more time between purchase, which is a good thing since that will give me time to paint what I already have.

Not to say that the price increase is not irritating, but what GW did is essentially making sure that I do not start a new army, but instead focus on adding to an existing army. I see how what they are doing can hurt compulsive buyers, but fortunately I am not one.

Let me see...

Do I boycott the store that sells a hobby that a really enjoy, allows me to socialise to friends, produces models that I find are of a high quality and reasonably priced?

Or do I change my hobby? Maybe go and buy a Ferrari?
Oh wait. They're expensive. Better go complain on their forums. That will make Ferrari drop their prices.

[opinions]

Thought; if more people brought from their local GW rather than super-cheap online stores, would GW sales begin to climb, thus allowing a re-structuring of prices? Is the pricing hike really to do with the economy, or equally as much to do with people moving all of their sales online to save a few measly bucks?

I know I'm guilty of this. If I buy a battleforce, I'll purchase it online, where I can easily save 15-20 pounds over GW prices. But with that saved money I then go to GW and buy some other models to bolster my battleforce. Spend the same, end up with more, everybody benefits (...kind of.) But with anything else, I'd much rather go into my local GW and purchase what I need from an (occasionally) friendly and helpful staff members, who I can chat to about the hobby I love, and support the company that provides for me.

I can't say I can justify the hike, but I can see where they're coming from.

[/opinions]

Justus wrote:Honestly, the prices aren't that bad. Think about filling your gas tank, cigarettes, random snacks, and a bunch of other stuff that you don't really need. 40k is a great game and the money that I spend there is better spent than money elsewhere, like most games that are as much as Land Raider yet don't see as much use.

My father-in-law golfs. This year he spent 1800 on green fees just to have the ability to golf. That does not include clubs, balls, or drinks while on the green.

I may bitch about the cost of models, but my hobby costs far less than his does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

don_mondo wrote:Hell, I haven't bought anything directly from GW in years. Ebay and Bartertown take core of my needs just fine.

Personally I buy from my FLGS. Ebay and Bartertown are awesome, but I buy from my FLGS. This is done to help ensure I have a place to play and hang out with my friends. If everyone at my FLGS bought their crap online, there would be no FLGS to play at.

The way I look at it, I've got 4 armies for 40k. Buying 1 land raider over 2 in a month makes no difference to me. My monthly budget is the same for gaming, and if GW sells me 1 or 2 models IDK. The funny thing is the cost to produce one plastic kit over 2 is not that much for them -- so the GW profit margin stays fairly flat.

LordofRust wrote:[opinions]Thought; if more people brought from their local GW rather than super-cheap online stores, would GW sales begin to climb, thus allowing a re-structuring of prices?

Alternatively, it'll show GW that even if they raise their prices they will still sell the same amount of models, and thus benefit from higher profits. Their goods are already inelastic in demand and this is why their raising prices (the % drop in the number of sales is less than the % increase in price). If we buy less from GW, the drop in demand for their goods may begin to fall so that the % fall in demand is greater than the % increase in price, and so they would reduce prices to pick up sales, which is where the idea of the boycott is coming from.

Having said that, I do enjoy going down to my local GW as everyone there is really friendly and helpful, plus it's a good place to socialise and have a game with some new people. I may even pick up a few models/paints etc while I'm there. We're still supporting GW by buying from independant retailers, just not as much, I know I go down to my FLGS and buy at lower prices just as much as I buy from GW.

You can't moan about the prices and yet continue to buy. If you don't like it, don't buy. It's as simple as that. As it stands, I'm still prepared to buy at the current price level, as the most recent price increases haven't really effected me as most of the stuff that's been increased is stuff that I'm not intending upon getting. I'm not defending the increases, I just don't have any reason to moan personally if I'm still prepared to part with cash.

Ailaros wrote:People should also take a look at related hobbies, like building model trains, airplanes, and cars. It is very easy to buy a model car that costs $30-$50, and said car generally comes with less detail, fewer options (bitz), and doesn't come with a game that you can play with other people.

The price comparison is irrelevant. Some hobbies are expensive, others are not. That doesn't mean we can't object to GW's pricing.

Ailaros wrote:Paying $35 for a drop pod really isn't out of scope with paying $35 for a model vehicle outside of the world of GW.

Would you pay $50 for a drop pod if comparable non-GW stuff was available for $50? What about $200? At some point you would draw the line, right?

Vendetta 476 wrote:But if you look at its competitors, mantic for example, they offer the same quality models at a massive half of GW's price.

You picked a good example (Ghouls). But some of Mantic's stuff is well below the quality of GW. Not that I'm excusing GW, but certainly some people might not want Mantic because of the lower quality of some sculpts.

For people who say its fine to increase the price, at what point does it become a problem? 50%? 100%?

For me it’s not just the constant over inflation price increases, it's everything.

Who here can say that GW is a good and friendly company?

The models released recently are not as good in terms of quality as you had before.

It's not pose-able like it used to be or at least the things I've bought.

Soul Grinders only fit together a certain way. As well as Bloodcrushers, Bloodletters, and pink horrors, same goes for the Dreadknight. Grey knights in power armour only fit together a particular way and are numbered accordingly in the instructions.


There's some rubbish stuff now the new SM flyer that is horrible to look at.

There's the fine cast problems. Even stuff that isn't malformed (i have a fault with about 50%) does not last.
My Incubi have spoiled while being left in their case.

Then comes the removal of tournament support.

The cease and desist letters these forums get.

The late delivery of white dwarf magazines compared to stores deliveries.

The content of those white dwarfs being nothing but adds for themselves.

Now making you pay for the free models at Games Day - where they only real priority it would seem is keeping the sales stands ticking over.

The complete lack of info on what is coming out.

Stealth Price raises on things like the tomb king battalion.

Removal of the Carnifex from the battleforce whilst leaving it on the front cover.


All these things are little things but add up to a joke.

I will no longer buy from GW and anything I do get will be second hand (and even then I will think carefully about it)

I've read the shareholder reports. These price rises are not used to better the hobby. Last time they raised prices they reinvested £5m and gave the shareholders £10m.

And now they've increased prices again.

GW shows us nothing but contempt.

You can all do what you like but I prefer invest in other miniatures from other providers who at least appreciate us. Rather than see us as a resource to be bled

Truer words have never been spoken!

I think we should do what always happens. A ton of us claim that there should be a boycott, or that they're quitting buying anything GW. Then 75% of those people completely cave-in and keep buying because it was all talk.. Thus strengthening GW's opinion that the majority of their fans will pay anything, which is why they raise prices so routinely- especially on their "best sellers", like Space Marines.

obsidianaura wrote:The models released recently are not as good in terms of quality as you had before.

It's not pose-able like it used to be or at least the things I've bought.

Soul Grinders only fit together a certain way. As well as Bloodcrushers, Bloodletters, and pink horrors, same goes for the Dreadknight. Grey knights in power armour only fit together a particular way and are numbered accordingly in the instructions.

Wait, what? Of all the things you can level at GW, don't go with quality. Have you seen the quality of models in the last year or two? It is worlds better than it used to be. Posability might be an issue, but the sculpt quality and number of bits provided are huge now.

TermiesInARaider wrote:

phoenixrisin wrote:

Joey wrote:If you can have a night out for the same cost as a box of troops or even a tank, you're having rubbish nights out.
Less whinging, more playing.

$66 is a crappy night out? you're either an alcoholic or rich.

This, to me, is possibly the silliest argument I've ever heard, coming from both ends. It's not one or the other, people. You can go bowling, or see a movie, instead of going to the bar. Or, you could get a tactical squad instead of a Land Raider. This is called basic budgeting, people. It's something grownups do.

what if you need a land raider? i'm not condoning the whole "going out" analogy, i'm just playing devil's advocate. if i need a raider i needs me a raider, tac marines aren't going to get me anywhere.

in reality, everything has an opportunity cost, for every choice you make you must give up something else, that's just how it goes for the 99%. you make your choices and live with it.

GW raising prices is just going to bolster the second hand market. i never buy at full price anyways.

LordofRust wrote:[opinions]

Thought; if more people brought from their local GW rather than super-cheap online stores, would GW sales begin to climb, thus allowing a re-structuring of prices? Is the pricing hike really to do with the economy, or equally as much to do with people moving all of their sales online to save a few measly bucks?
[/opinions]

Loving the [opinions] notations...you are definitely entitled to have one of those...

The pricing hike probably doesn't have to do with either of those things things. In the US a vast majority of the sales are done through Independent retailers and not from GW directly. Heck some states have a dozen GW stores in them while most don't even have a single GW store in them, so hard for people to walk into the local GW and buy minis if they don't exist. Given that GW makes just as much money off of a purchase made through a discounting online retailer as they do from a non-discounting brick and mortar stockist, the primary difference is one of volume. I can buy 1.2 times value retail worth of stuff from an online discounter than when paying retail at a local brick and mortar store, so I spend $400 in a brick and mortar store then GW gets the wholesale profts off of $400 retail. If I spend $400 at my online discounter GW is actually getting wholesale profits on $480 retail worth of product. The discounters aren't hurting GW's sales, they are increasing them which is why it is funny how GW has tried to make it harder for them to sell online at all let alone at a discount. Stop buying at discounters in the US and GW sales figures will drop because you'll be buying less product at local stores. The few scatter GW stores in the US may keep it from going down too low, but there are too many places that don't have a GW store anywhere close by.

Skriker

daedalus wrote:
It is indeed naive. You DON'T have any power. None. Zero. Nada. You plus thousands of other people? Maybe. Probably not.

In the words of Matthew Good "Take the world and make it yours again".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:Well, I am kind of an ass, I'll admit it. It's what I'm good at. And no, I really don't know what he's saying and I'm bothered by the fact that he would compare MLK's crusade for equality with getting prices on plastic army men lowered. It feels cheap somehow.

Its because you said that nobody can make a difference unless they have financial backing. MLK made a big difference and he was a minister by trade. There are other examples that can be used you know. For instance a group of fans in the UK got together and bought a football club. How do you like that? GW itself was built by a few guys by themselves. Richard Branson started by selling records in his garage. There are tons of examples of people who can do things if they try. Sure they might need a bit of luck or be smart about it, but it can be done.

Heres more info on that football club.

http://www.myfootballclub.co.uk/

And I'm here because, as other people have mentioned, boycott threads are an eyesore and unproductive. I also have personal issues with all the constant negative hyperbole. If there's something I can do about it, I'm going to try. One person can make all the difference, right?

I'm not boycotting because I don't have a massive issue with it. Sure I don't like price rises but they happen and they happen in all walks of life.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ailaros wrote:This all shows the main problem with idealism. We do not live in a world where ideas are power. We live in a world where power is power. Nothing changes based solely on what you happen to think is a good idea or not.

Hogwash, there are plenty of people who made a difference and they didn't need massive armies to back them up. You obviously have forgotten your history books.

Benjamin Franklin didn't have an army and yet look at what he accomplished. Lots of inventions and even established libraries as an institution. Oh but of course, he is just one man who possibly can't make a difference. Lets see what we have here.

1) Jesus Christ - Founder of a religion and was only a carpenter
2) Plato
3) Albert Einstein
4) John Nash (He even suffered from a mental disorder, but still his genius changed the world forever)
5) Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, yes they became very rich but only because of what they achieved before it and made a massive difference to the world of technology.
6) William Wilberforce abolished slavery here in the UK with the help of the Quackers
7) Nelson Mandela
8) Leonardo Da Vinci
9) Rosa Parks (one person who decided to take a stand by herself)
10) Socrates
11) Edward Jenner
12) Sir Issac Newton
13) Jesse Owens
14) Heck even J.R.R. Tolkien should be included
15) Betty Williams for her peace work in Northern Ireland

etc, etc. I could go on but I think I made my point.

pretre wrote:

obsidianaura wrote:The models released recently are not as good in terms of quality as you had before.

It's not pose-able like it used to be or at least the things I've bought.

Soul Grinders only fit together a certain way. As well as Bloodcrushers, Bloodletters, and pink horrors, same goes for the Dreadknight. Grey knights in power armour only fit together a particular way and are numbered accordingly in the instructions.

Wait, what? Of all the things you can level at GW, don't go with quality. Have you seen the quality of models in the last year or two? It is worlds better than it used to be. Posability might be an issue, but the sculpt quality and number of bits provided are huge now.

I don't just talk about quality though, and I suppose when I say quality it’s lots of things under that come under that banner.

You do get lots of bits yes, and other companies dont do that really which is something good but I think it's coming at a big premium.

As for sculpting from GW, it is brilliant indeed no disagreement from me!

But don’t you think when you look at their newer releases, particularly the larger ones the design at least is pretty poor?

People when comparing quality of miniatures against GW stuff, say its competitor’s miniatures are only available in specific poses which is true, and the GW stuff is indeed better but that’s the older stuff.

And while other companies are moving towards that GW seems to be moving away.

The latest stuff, the items I listed are only buildable a very restricted way or even one specific way and won’t fit together in another.

And with quality I also include in finecast because it’s not fit for purpose.

But like I said these separately are small things. Just when you add them up, it leaves me feeling disenfranchised.

I don't think many of my points are too much to expect from GW are they?

Ugavine wrote:Let me see...

Do I boycott the store that sells a hobby that a really enjoy, allows me to socialise to friends, produces models that I find are of a high quality and reasonably priced?

Or do I change my hobby? Maybe go and buy a Ferrari?
Oh wait. They're expensive. Better go complain on their forums. That will make Ferrari drop their prices.

Obvious strawman is obvious.