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Skriker wrote:No, but in areas where the median income is higher across the US prices are different.

Some of the larger chains tried that here back in the '90s. What they found was that people just went to the the stores in the cheaper areas instead.

Ailaros wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:Are you an idiot, comparing it against a commodity that has gone through the roof. if GAS had kept stable with average inflation it'd be in the buck and half range right now. it's not.

SilverMK2 wrote:Petrol price increases and model cost increases are not an apt comparison; fuel has, and probably will continue to, increase in value (or rather cost) significantly faster than everything else.

Think again.

During that same time period that gas prices have gone up 240%, and space marines 200%, the price of gold has increased just slightly less than that (194%), while the price of a pound of bacon has nearly tripled (293%). The price of ground beef has gone up 83% in the last three years alone, much less the last 25.

Good point, I wanted to point out to the uneducated on how plastic is made http://science.howstuffworks.com/plastic.htm Note the second paragraph and then note what Ailaros said about the relation of gas prices to model price increases lol.
Oil is refined to make both Gasoline (Petrol) and plastic.

insaniak wrote:

Skriker wrote:No, but in areas where the median income is higher across the US prices are different.

Some of the larger chains tried that here back in the '90s. What they found was that people just went to the the stores in the cheaper areas instead.

Which is the exact problem Australia has. If your country's prices goes up, where else can you get the supplies? I'd be willing to bet that the cost of buying GW products from your local FLGS in australia is lower than the price of buying that same stuff from a store that operates out of the US, and then have to pay for shipping.

Australia has the misfortune of being on the opposite side of the planet from most of the rest of the developed world. It shouldn't come as a shock that prices are relatively higher if you order it from the Antipodes than if you order it from just down the proverbial street in Nottingham.

I mean, I expect to pay more for pineapple at my grocery stores here in east central Illinois than I would expect to pay if I were vacationing in the tropics, just as I expect to pay more for salmon than if I lived in Alaska.

If GW could reduce the prices in Australia and still make the same profit per unit, they would lower prices in a heartbeat to ship more volume. As it is...

Ailaros wrote:Which is the exact problem Australia has. If your country's prices goes up, where else can you get the supplies? I'd be willing to bet that the cost of buying GW products from your local FLGS in australia is lower than the price of buying that same stuff from a store that operates out of the US, and then have to pay for shipping.

Exactly the opposite. That's been the whole reason for the complaints about GW pricing here. If I could get stuff from my LGS for around the same price as I could buy from overseas with the not-negligible cost of international shipping, I would buy locally.

But even with shipping, buying from the UK or US works out at around 60-70% of walking into an Australian store.

...they would lower prices in a heartbeat to ship more volume.

That has never been GW's business model.

NuclearMessiah wrote:Good point, I wanted to point out to the uneducated on how plastic is made http://science.howstuffworks.com/plastic.htm Note the second paragraph and then note what Ailaros said about the relation of gas prices to model price increases lol.
Oil is refined to make both Gasoline (Petrol) and plastic.

I'd like to point out to the uneducated how much petrol (rather than oil) is taxed, and the taxation is continually increasing (certainly in the UK) above and beyond the rise in the price of oil and inflation, while oil is not being taxed in the same way...

If you want to look at the increase of the plastics, compare directly with crude.

SilverMK2 wrote:If you want to look at the increase of the plastics, compare directly with crude.

Sure. In May of 1987, the price of a barrel of brent crude was $38. As of this afternoon, the price is $106.92

That's a 255% increase in the cost of crude oil over the same time that the price of the plastic minis has only increased 200%.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

I disagree that Purifiers are appropriately priced. The 25% increased cost, isn't because of survivability, it's because the massive increase in offensive power.

You get Hammerhand, Cleansing Flame, Force weapons, and an extra attack A standard power weapon alone costs 3 points less than another Tac marine, in the SM codex.

However, this is a tad off-topic.

On-topic. We knew it was coming. People talk of Boycotting every year. Doesn't really work. GW will eventually price themselves out of too many customers, and the rate they are going though. We'll see how things go after the Hobbit.

I was wrong actually - 50% increase in cost, forgot purifiers were 24 compared to GH at 16,for essentially the same number of attakcs.

Non-optional upgrades *always* cost less than optional ones. Because you dont have any choice in the matter.

The same naive comparison as you did shows that banshees should also cost about 30ppm. They dont, for the good reason that they arent worth that much. Purifiers are appropriately costed.

Grey Hunters are also considered, undercosted by anywhere, from 1-3 ppm. using them as your standard for cost comparison, is inherently flawed. Purifiers get a lot more than 16 points worth of Upgrades, and special rules compared to GH. You seem to be focusing on just number attacks, when it is so much more than that.

Perhaps my comparison wasn't the best example, but I don't see how you can say that purifiers are properly costed at all. They should be abut 1-2 PPM more than they are right now. Their cost is even worse when considered from an internal balance standpoint.

Purifiers are not appropriately costed.

Most of the 40K guys in my area (Wrexham) have already effectively been boycotting, since the last price rise. I think there's only one person I know personally who's bought any Finecast. Most of us are either moving on to Infinity, or back to Mordheim / Bloodbowl, and either way, not buying GW stuff.

Every year GW gets better, every year GW raises it's prices. First I was pissed off about the price rises but then I realized the necrons had a near perfect release, currently they have a model for every unit (except for 1 or 2 SC) and good looking models at that. Along with a fairly balanced codex they did a perfect job.

Stoping using your hate of Matt Ward and his Grey Knights as an excuse to hate all of GW

They call it Down Under cause it's as close to Hell as you are gonna get on this planet. And yeah price increases again sucks, and yes everything else is going up in value, but I will not be able to get anyone else into this game when they gotta start dropping $300 on a 1k army list with an army book/codex, basic paints and brushes and carrying case and that $300 goes up fast.

There's also another more important macroeconomic factor at play. While prices everywhere (including GW) have been going up, purchasing power has been going down, along with things like real wages.

40k may not be objectively any more expensive than it once was, but, speaking for myself, my discretionary income has tanked compared to 5 years ago. Nothing like getting hours cut while minimum wage stays the same while rent, food, and energy prices slowly double to reduce the amount I can spend on 40k to virtually nothing.

Greenstuff and plasticard, the voice of the recession generation...

Yeah, I'm the same -- from well-paid full-time work pre-recession, to back to university and scraping a living however I can...

Ian Sturrock wrote:Yeah, I'm the same -- from well-paid full-time work pre-recession, to back to university and scraping a living however I can...

all because of greedy rich peo.... wait i sense a pattern here lol

As i said before, it is all of us to blame for the predicament were in, we ALLOWED the greedy corrupt people to manage our finances and we ALLOW GW to raise there prices to obscene levels year after year, if we trully wanted it to stop we would stop it

The Crusader wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

Ailaros wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:it's painfully obvious that GW is going to keep raising prices above inflation

In 1987, space marines were £0.75 apiece. The price for a litre of petrol in 1987 was £0.387. In 2012, the price of a space marine is £2.30 apiece. The price of a litre of petrol as of this month is £1.338.

The cost of a space marine has increased just about 200%, while the price of petrol has increased 245%. Perhaps you might want to get your facts straight before you start bitching and moaning.

Are you an idiot, comparing it against a commodity that has gone through the roof. if GAS had kept stable with average inflation it'd be in the buck and half range right now. it's not.

No sir, You are the idiot. on average, a single American uses 600 gallons of petrol a year. Ethiopians use less than 40 gallons a year. Petrol is not a commodity, you don't NEED it. People have been getting around just fine for thousands of years without motorised transport. Just because it saves time and effort to use a car doesn't mean that it is the "be all and end all". At current consumption rate, we will run out of Petrol in less than 40 years.

40 Years.

Then it's back to Horses, Bikes and good ol' ground pounding.

Oooor we switch to a more-renewable alternative.

Either way, the resource that the modern world runs on compared to little plastic men isn't exactly a fair matchup, either way. One is a luxury item, the other is, many would consider, a necessity. In most western countries, anyone who can't afford to gas their car isn't on the market for 40k minis.

The Crusader wrote: Petrol is not a commodity, you don't NEED it.

lol I don't think "commodity" means what you think it means.

Joey wrote:If you can have a night out for the same cost as a box of troops or even a tank, you're having rubbish nights out.
Less whinging, more playing.

Actually, for about 25 USD more than the new Stormraven price I can take someone out to Texas de Brazil, a fething amazing steakhouse (it's 44 USD a person, by the way). The funny thing is, it's extremely close to my local GW. Let's see... utterly fantastic steakhouse, or stormraven... yeah, gonna have to go with any option that has the least to do with GW.

Ugh, well I guess I'll be scouring ebay more often than I do already... GW prices in Canada are Squig- , our dollar's basically at parity with the American dollar, yet we pay considerably more for new models...

And before you say it, I know, complain to the Australians.

The Crusader wrote:Petrol is not a commodity, you don't NEED it.

Anything you can buy or sell is a commodity. That chair you're probably sitting on? Commodity. The material it's made out of? Commodity. Hell, in certain areas of the world, people are still a commodity.

Also, gas is indeed a necessity to much of the western world. When you have to commute an hour into work every morning, then home again, turning that into a 2 hour bike ride or a five hour jog isn't really an option.

Although we'd be in great shape... we'd be on the way to having countries full of triathletes. Ironman triathletes.

McNinja wrote:

Joey wrote:If you can have a night out for the same cost as a box of troops or even a tank, you're having rubbish nights out.
Less whinging, more playing.

Actually, for about 25 USD more than the new Stormraven price I can take someone out to Texas de Brazil, a fething amazing steakhouse (it's 44 USD a person, by the way). The funny thing is, it's extremely close to my local GW. Let's see... utterly fantastic steakhouse, or stormraven... yeah, gonna have to go with any option that has the least to do with GW.

I want to disagree with you but your avatar is just too awesome.

Petrol is not a commodity, you don't NEED it. People have been getting around just fine for thousands of years without motorised transport.

Tell that to urban planners and people out in the rural area's not close enough to local food areas and service.

Of course one could say that about hospital care, I mean sure we don't NEED it, maybe we could also go back to the years when Mercury was used as cure-alls. We were fine thousands of years without it afterall.

It's an excellent time for a GW boycott.

Just like last year.

And the year before that.

And the year before that.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Petrol is not a commodity, you don't NEED it. People have been getting around just fine for thousands of years without motorised transport.

Tell that to urban planners and people out in the rural area's not close enough to local food areas and service.

Of course one could say that about hospital care, I mean sure we don't NEED it, maybe we could also go back to the years when Mercury was used as cure-alls. We were fine thousands of years without it afterall.

People can get along fine without personal transport if they moved into cities, which they will eventually do as petrol becomes more and more expensive. Petrol is only really important for commercial and other non-consumer things (military etc).

Joey wrote:

McNinja wrote:

Joey wrote:If you can have a night out for the same cost as a box of troops or even a tank, you're having rubbish nights out.
Less whinging, more playing.

Actually, for about 25 USD more than the new Stormraven price I can take someone out to Texas de Brazil, a fething amazing steakhouse (it's 44 USD a person, by the way). The funny thing is, it's extremely close to my local GW. Let's see... utterly fantastic steakhouse, or stormraven... yeah, gonna have to go with any option that has the least to do with GW.

I want to disagree with you but your avatar is just too awesome.

I will agree with Joey the model will probably give one more long term enjoyment unless you are a creepy creepy person.

McNinja wrote:Also, gas is indeed a necessity to much of the western world. When you have to commute an hour into work every morning, then home again, turning that into a 2 hour bike ride or a five hour jog isn't really an option.

Moving to somewhere closer or getting a different job is, though.

Petrol is a 'necessity' because people have allowed themselves to develop the habit of relying on cars. If we stop doing that, petrol suddenly becomes a heck of a lot less important.

Don't like GW's prices? Craigslist is your friend. I haven't bought retail in 2 or so years, and I don't touch finecast, but with a little bit of searching I get most if not everything for half off or better off other people.

insaniak wrote:

McNinja wrote:Also, gas is indeed a necessity to much of the western world. When you have to commute an hour into work every morning, then home again, turning that into a 2 hour bike ride or a five hour jog isn't really an option.

Moving to somewhere closer or getting a different job is, though.

Petrol is a 'necessity' because people have allowed themselves to develop the habit of relying on cars. If we stop doing that, petrol suddenly becomes a heck of a lot less important.

Because people can just move and/or find a new job with no problems at all. It's not like the job market is garbage right now or anything. We aren't giving up cars any time soon. They were designed to be convenient, and until we find something that works better with better fuel efficiency (coughfusionpowercough), we're going to keep wasting that oil stuck in earths crust, though we have massive untapped reserves in various locations around the world.

Buttons wrote:

Joey wrote:

McNinja wrote:

Joey wrote:If you can have a night out for the same cost as a box of troops or even a tank, you're having rubbish nights out.
Less whinging, more playing.

Actually, for about 25 USD more than the new Stormraven price I can take someone out to Texas de Brazil, a fething amazing steakhouse (it's 44 USD a person, by the way). The funny thing is, it's extremely close to my local GW. Let's see... utterly fantastic steakhouse, or stormraven... yeah, gonna have to go with any option that has the least to do with GW.

I want to disagree with you but your avatar is just too awesome.

I will agree with Joey the model will probably give one more long term enjoyment unless you are a creepy creepy person.

I'm not going to disagree (because I slightly agree), but I'd rather spend money on an enjoyable night with a friend or on a date rather than spend the money on a model, though that's just personal preference. I'm not sure what you mean by creepy person...

I'm glad my avatar can win arguments for me

Buttons wrote:

Joey wrote:

McNinja wrote:

Joey wrote:If you can have a night out for the same cost as a box of troops or even a tank, you're having rubbish nights out.
Less whinging, more playing.

Actually, for about 25 USD more than the new Stormraven price I can take someone out to Texas de Brazil, a fething amazing steakhouse (it's 44 USD a person, by the way). The funny thing is, it's extremely close to my local GW. Let's see... utterly fantastic steakhouse, or stormraven... yeah, gonna have to go with any option that has the least to do with GW.

I want to disagree with you but your avatar is just too awesome.

I will agree with Joey the model will probably give one more long term enjoyment unless you are a creepy creepy person.

Or have a very vivid imagination/memory.

McNinja wrote:Because people can just move and/or find a new job with no problems at all.

Your options not being easy is not the same as having no options.

I have moved in the past in order to be within walking distance of my work. It's not impossible, and can have some pretty huge benefits.

McNinja wrote:

Less whinging, more playing.

Actually, for about 25 USD more than the new Stormraven price I can take someone out to Texas de Brazil, a fething amazing steakhouse (it's 44 USD a person, by the way). The funny thing is, it's extremely close to my local GW. Let's see... utterly fantastic steakhouse, or stormraven... yeah, gonna have to go with any option that has the least to do with GW.

To be fair, though, the storm raven is a durable good, which means it will last for years and years, the cost being defrayed more every time you pull it out of your army case. That steak will only last, what 48 hours? The memory will last longer of course, depending on how many beers you had to go with that steak...

Plus, you get the enjoyment of the hobby, and then you get the enjoyment of game after game. 40k isn't actually very poor of a value, despite its cost. Just be glad that GW isn't moving over to a DRM or microtransaction business model like online distributors are able to do. The day that GW bans using your own miniatures and you're required to rent your minis from the store every time you want to play a game is the day I stop playing 40k...

The Crusader wrote:No sir, You are the idiot. on average, a single American uses 600 gallons of petrol a year. Ethiopians use less than 40 gallons a year. Petrol is not a commodity, you don't NEED it. People have been getting around just fine for thousands of years without motorised transport. Just because it saves time and effort to use a car doesn't mean that it is the "be all and end all". At current consumption rate, we will run out of Petrol in less than 40 years.

40 Years.

Then it's back to Horses, Bikes and good ol' ground pounding.

Wow. Be careful throwing back out the 'idiot' word. I suppose if you want to live like an ethiopian, you can try to get by on 40 gallons of 'petrol' a year. I prefer to live a slightly higher and better standard of living.

And they have been saying, oh say for the last 40 years, that we are going to run out of 'petrol' in 40 years.

I'll let you in on a clue. We are not going to run out of 'petrol' anytime soon.

As far as the 'other poster' using highly volatile traded commodities to represent/justify his straw man argument that gw models have not 'grown at a faster rate than inflation', I could just as easily debunk his argument using flat screen tv's and computers.

GW price increases will continue to hurt their bottom line. What's going to happen is vet's like me are going to appreciate the price increases as most resale values are based on current retail prices. So we can get out of this game line, offer what appears to be a golden deal to 'newer' players and invest on something that is far more cost effective to get into, like Dust or some product from Defiance Games.

I'm tired of playing the same old players. I would love to see this game grow, but it's getting incredibly cost prohibitive for new people to play this game, especially when you can get exquisite armies for far less than half the price from Dust and Defiance Games. GW must think they are 'too big to fail'. LoL.