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Well, I am kind of an ass, I'll admit it. It's what I'm good at. And no, I really don't know what he's saying and I'm bothered by the fact that he would compare MLK's crusade for equality with getting prices on plastic army men lowered. It feels cheap somehow.

And I'm here because, as other people have mentioned, boycott threads are an eyesore and unproductive. I also have personal issues with all the constant negative hyperbole. If there's something I can do about it, I'm going to try. One person can make all the difference, right?

Not massively wanting to get into this point. Since, well, I don't believe any sort of organised boycott is going to work in a few days... Or that GW is agile enough to notice if it did.

This is a massively incompetent move in my opinion, especially if the prices are as true as they're suggesting (80 pounds for a battleforce....)

However, I do think there's some overly cynical views expressed here, and so I'm countering with.... Mass Effect 3.

In any case... And I said this at the last price rise. GW are only going to notice when the prices are too high when Little Timmy goes into a shop, looks at some sphess mehreens, goes "mummy, I want that." Then she looks at the prices and laughs.

At 80 pounds a battleforce... GW are probably at that point.

Sasori - and again only mentioning the gains, and none of the losses

I did agree in what they loose. I then showed what they gained in comparison.

Done going so far off topic, when people cant even argue adequately about the off topic subject.

I have disputed your points, in a reasonable manner, as well as discussed and made my points quite adequately. If you don't want to discuss this any further, that is fine. Saying that I haven't discussed this adequately is being very disingenuous.

Finally - I didnt mention every thing they gain, because you had adequately covered that. Repetition is fairly pointless. I was just trying to point out that purifiers DO lose something, when the way you speak they are the best thing since sliced bread

Hyperbole aside, I do think they are one of the best units, that any army has to offer. They offer a lot of utility, in a cheap package. I would gladly include them in any of my armies.

Your initial costing talked about optional wargear costs, as if it makes any sense to compare to mandatory wargear

In my first post about this, I did. In the second post I said that you were right, it was not a good comparison. You continued to bring it up, however.

24 points, and dies like any other marine. If you cannot kill marines, you are doing something wrong

It's just not that simple. Yes, they die like other marines, but you are more limited in effective ways to do so. A good example of this is Tyranids. I have numerous ways to "Kill Marines" in my army. The effective ways drastically dwindles when going up against Purifiers. I can't send my Hordes of Gaunts, as they will get hit by Cleansing flame. It's a gamble to send any sort of MC at them, as a Single wound could kill them. Most of my Shooting is fairly infective, and puts the unit in question, in the threat range of CC with them.

You're right, they die just like normal marines. It's easy to say that but actually applying that in game against this Purifiers, is a lot more difficult to do, especially in CC. Shooting retains the same effectiveness, but close combat does not work well. That really shrinks effective options.

Categorically purifiers are the right points for what they bring to the table. You see them in henchmen lists because what are you going to bring in elites otherwise? Crap assasins?

You are not obligated to purchase anything in the Elite Slot. As for good choices in the slot, while most of the assassins are not that good, Venerable psyriflemen are. People bring Purifiers because they can handle anything in a TAC list, and fit very well into the Mech-heavy MSU meta.

Purifiers are really not properly costed, they bring too much to the table, for what they cost.

daedalus wrote:Well, I am kind of an ass, I'll admit it. It's what I'm good at. And no, I really don't know what he's saying and I'm bothered by the fact that he would compare MLK's crusade for equality with getting prices on plastic army men lowered. It feels cheap somehow.

And I'm here because, as other people have mentioned, boycott threads are an eyesore and unproductive. I also have personal issues with all the constant negative hyperbole. If there's something I can do about it, I'm going to try. One person can make all the difference, right?

are you being intenionally confrontational?

are you seriously trying to tell me that you cant see the diference between seperate posts?
You claimed no one person can make a diference, i gave you examples of people who did, and your trying to claim im comparing MLK to toy soldiers.. what?
When we started off down this tangent all i was trying to expain that any movement must start somewhere, and the mass of people dont care either way, i also said we havent reached the point yet where that mass will actually vote with there wallets and do something about it, i dont mind if they do, i dont mind if they dont, this doesnt make me a hypocrite, im simply explaining what im seeing, and if you all cant see the diference.. well.

Come to think of it... what have you done ? I understand you think these threads and eyesore, and you entitled to that opinion, however what alternative do you propose?

See last time this happened i took it more seriously than the years proceding it, I was in GW and a dude walked up to me and said "are you doing the boycott on ? date" (cant remember the date) now its one thing to say something on the anon interweb, but this was real world, makes me wonder how many people actually boycotted on that day and if GW noticed

Formosa wrote:
Hitler
Stalin
Gearge washington
Abraham lincoln

... all of whom were backed by an army, and all of them were at some point at the helm of an entire national government. If Hitler wanted to make GW's prices cheaper, and backed it up with threat of invasion, then GW's prices may be forced to go down (or maybe not, it depends on who's in charge of parliament in this hypothetical world).

Saying that being a dictator means that you have an impact on things is fine, but it has no bearing on those of us who are not blessed with such powers.

Formosa wrote:Martin luther king

And throw ghandi in here as well. The thing with these people is that they created and managed massive civil society institutions. Ghandi's became such a powerful political force that it went on to rule india, once again, being married to a state and an army.

This all shows the main problem with idealism. We do not live in a world where ideas are power. We live in a world where power is power. Nothing changes based solely on what you happen to think is a good idea or not.

Formosa wrote:

are you being intenionally confrontational?

Not intentionally, but as previously stated, I'm kind of an donkey-cave. I call it like I see it, as bluntly as I see it.

are you seriously trying to tell me that you cant see the diference between seperate posts?
You claimed no one person can make a diference, i gave you examples of people who did, and your trying to claim im comparing MLK to toy soldiers.. what?

I think you missed my point. Looking back on it, I alluded to it, but I didn't really articulate it well enough, I guess. All of your examples stood on the shoulders of large frameworks of people. Hitler was not one person. He had behind him a nation of people so desperate to escape their terrible economic situation they were willing to do anything. Stalin was not one person. He had people under him to do his bidding. Lincoln had the entire force of the North behind him when he did anything that made him famous as a president. MLK had an entire race of people. You have a wargaming community so fragmented that half of them are saying no to the poll question above. I doubt that 50% of black people were perfectly happy being treated the way they were.

When we started off down this tangent all i was trying to expain that any movement must start somewhere, and the mass of people dont care either way, i also said we havent reached the point yet where that mass will actually vote with there wallets and do something about it, i dont mind if they do, i dont mind if they dont, this doesnt make me a hypocrite, im simply explaining what im seeing, and if you all cant see the diference.. well.

Sure, but the problem isn't even really a problem, as Ailaros pointed out. This isn't predatory home loans here; it's luxury items that are actually keeping with the inflation of prices on other commodities. That's not profiteering. And, at least GW has improved in quality in their plastics. Gasoline hasn't gotten more awesome (though more rare, I guess). Bacon hasn't gotten more awesome, but it's pretty awesome as is.

Come to think of it... what have you done ? I understand you think these threads and eyesore, and you entitled to that opinion, however what alternative do you propose?

In this case, I'm okay with the status quo. What end would you have me work toward?

Frankly, I don't picture GW cutting prices even if there was a successful boycott. I just picture a scale down of production and R&D. I work for a major financial data provider, nameless because I'm not. When everything went to gak economically speaking, we lost a lot of business due to banks consolidating and removing redundant departments. Did we reduce prices? No, we laid off hundreds of people and in a lot of ways scaled back our operations. Not saying that's right or wrong. It's just what happens.

See last time this happened i took it more seriously than the years proceding it, I was in GW and a dude walked up to me and said "are you doing the boycott on ? date" (cant remember the date) now its one thing to say something on the anon interweb, but this was real world, makes me wonder how many people actually boycotted on that day and if GW noticed

If they did, they made no mention of it, though that's normal I suppose. So then, what's your overall strategy? How many people do you estimate will need to get involved in this prior to change? How much of their revenue stream do you need to disrupt? How low do their prices need to go before it's okay to buy again? What happens if revenue drops so low they can't continue production at all and start closing stores?

daedalus wrote:I work for a major financial data provider... It's just what happens.

And of course, this is tragically often the difference between the two sides of any issue that has anything to do with business. On one side is people who understand business, and on the other is people who consume said business, but don't really understand it.

Someone made a mention to the occupy protesters, and I think it's really apt here. A bunch of people who don't understand how the financial system works get angry and so behave in ways that are angry, but have nothing really to do with finance. Impassioned pleas of "something must be done!" by people who only see how things immediately effect them without a broader understanding of the systems themselves never get anywhere.

What things like this prove is that, whether we're talking about defense spending, finance, international trade, or games workshop, people being angry and being loud about this means nothing more than that something is going on that's not popular, not that something is going on that's actually wrong based on a nuianced understanding of what the issues actually are, and what ramifications will actually transpire if said angry people just get their way.

NATO is still the best value for the defense of the free world, the IMF is still the most efficient stabilizer of global economies, the WTO still ensures the most wealth for the most people, Wall Street still well-allocates capital to where it can be productive, and Games Workshop actually knows what it's going.

To say that because they're not doing things for you the way you want them to do things for you means that GW is doing things wrong is another whole class of naive, which is only made annoying by the addition of idealist naivete.

How is this thread still alive?

BlapBlapBlap wrote:How is this thread still alive?

Don't you know? Threads like these don't die till they hit 12 pages or someone gets to emotionally involved and starts cursing people out.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:How is this thread still alive?

Don't you know? Threads like these don't die till they hit 12 pages or someone gets to emotionally involved and starts cursing people out.

I'd of thought people'd have more common sense than to get into this debate.

Question, can I just curse people out and lock it now just so we can stop bleating on about it?

Please do.

Ebay pure and simple or trade on here i got 21 ork bikers 4 of them nob bikers from FW for about £70 thats about £150 worth of ork biker for less than half price and that was on here off ebay ive bought 90boyz 5 rokkit buggies 3 deffkoptas a trukk a warboss for about £120 its simple if you dont like their prices buy elsewhere eventually when GW realise whats happening they will lower their prices

This again

This is a hobby, hobbys are generally expensive, you can however play 40k on a budget.

eh why would people want to lock the thread? is it even about game worksop anymore?

i think it tured into a debate about morals, power and change in a globalized world...or maybe i'm insane i dunno...but i thought the issues rased about affecting change on a larger brauder scale were very interesting..to the point where i didn't care about the GW agenda lol.

i guess thats why this thread is still going...that and we havn't hit 12 pages yet

BlapBlapBlap wrote:How is this thread still alive?

You realise that posting in it just bumps it back up to the top for more people to post, yes?


If you're not interested in the discussion, feel free to not post in it.

insaniak wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:How is this thread still alive?

You realise that posting in it just bumps it back up to the top for more people to post, yes?


If you're not interested in the discussion, feel free to not post in it.

If only the irony of that solution needing to be posted in a thread about boycotts was not lost on them.

these posts keep popping up because some people care, it really is that simple, now im not going to repeat what i said, you can read my previous posts on this subject

Everyone calling for a boycott, just vote with your wallet and move to another system. I'm sure G.W has heard many calls for Boycotts and angry phone calls. Doesn't work.

DiRTWaL wrote:This is a hobby, hobbys are generally expensive, you can however play 40k on a budget.

I'm sorry but the words "40k" and "budget" should never be used in the same sentence

ShatteredBlade wrote:Everyone calling for a boycott, just vote with your wallet and move to another system.

Or, in other words... boycott GW?

I do care about the price hikes but I care more about the fact that 6th had damn well better fix this game because if it doesn't I am not going to be playing 40k anymore. The boycott you were discussing might end up happening anyway if they manage to screw up the game worse than it is right now.

Reivax26 wrote:I do care about the price hikes but I care more about the fact that 6th had damn well better fix this game because if it doesn't I am not going to be playing 40k anymore. The boycott you were discussing might end up happening anyway if they manage to screw up the game worse than it is right now.

This is true lol, a bad rulebook would damage the hobby alot more, look at 4th, i knew alot of people who left for (almost) the entire edition, 5th came out and some of them came back, but alot stayed with other systems

Just don't get yourself wasted at a bar for 3 fridays a month and you'll have $100+ extra dollars and less destroyed brain cells

Hey, guys, just out of curiosity, how much do you really think GW is gouging you for? I did come across an article on the Jungle (http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarseconomics.html) claiming GW is making perhaps $5 off a $60 Land Raider sale before factoring in advertising/storefront rent, I've got a sneaking suspicion that the miniatures are so expensive because it's kind of a low-volume product.

AnomanderRake wrote:Hey, guys, just out of curiosity, how much do you really think GW is gouging you for? I did come across an article on the Jungle (http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarseconomics.html) claiming GW is making perhaps $5 off a $60 Land Raider sale before factoring in advertising/storefront rent, I've got a sneaking suspicion that the miniatures are so expensive because it's kind of a low-volume product.

Yeah, the figures in that article are way out.

Kirby has said in GW's financial statement in the past that production costs account for 2% of the price of the miniature. Quite a bit less than the 15ish% that is suggested in that article.

insaniak wrote:

ShatteredBlade wrote:Everyone calling for a boycott, just vote with your wallet and move to another system.

Or, in other words... boycott GW?

It is really only a boycott if you are doing specifically to anger GW and affect change of GW pricing. If, on the other hand, you are just tired of it all and move on to a new system that has better rules and doesn't cost as much you aren't really boycotting so much as just being an informed consumer.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reivax26 wrote:I do care about the price hikes but I care more about the fact that 6th had damn well better fix this game because if it doesn't I am not going to be playing 40k anymore. The boycott you were discussing might end up happening anyway if they manage to screw up the game worse than it is right now.

I'm not sure if they will screw it up "worse" than it is right now. If history of GW rules teaches us anything they are more likely to just screw it up "different" than "worse". Some new things will be cool and others will suck. Existing suckage will disappear as things change completely...that is the standard GW path of rules versions.

Skriker

The prices keep on going up because games workshop is a british based company and because the bloody stupid royal mint (the place that makes english pounds) have been printing off so much money that things (warhammer) have been losing their value so games workshop have to bump up their prices but personally i blame the royal mint and VAT.

orkdestroyer1 wrote:The prices keep on going up because games workshop is a british based company and because the bloody stupid royal mint (the place that makes english pounds) have been printing off so much money that things (warhammer) have been losing their value so games workshop have to bump up their prices but personally i blame the royal mint and VAT.

I'm not sure that's entirely it...I think it has more to do with the cost of production than items losing their value.