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Made in us
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CSM have proven they can work with one codex via the 7th Edition book + the supplement. It just needs correct internal balance.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I like what they have done with Tsons and DG so far. I started and expanded armies of both Tsons and DG in 9th edition and had fun playing both. They feel different from the CSM armies (of which I have lots because CSM was my first love).

EC, WE, Tsons and DG all have enough lore to support having their own books. The key thing is to diversify their units such that they have their own armies. DG is the most extreme example of this. There are very few DG units that rely on CSM existing rooster. Most DG army lists these days use exclusively the new DG sculpts and the new DG units.

Tsons went this direction as well with the new rubric and Occult sculpts once they made good rules for these core units.

And both have a very distinct way of playing and style that set them apart from "CSM army variation 7".

If they can do this with EC and WE, it would be great. The only issue is that if they do this, I am not sure if what is left in the core CSM codex is interesting enough. It feels like it should be, but we will have to see.

I mean, there are still distinctly CSM codex units. Possessed feels like World bearers, Obliterators for Iron warriors. Black legion has Abaddon.

The challenge now is whether they have enough to form a new WE or EC codex. Not just in terms of lore (because I am sure there are tons of EC and WE lore). But in terms of actual sculpts and new units. I mean, if you are going to make WE an entire codex by itself, you really need to have some dedicated WE sculpts and units. It shouldn't be just a case of "I repaint my CSM army red and call it a day".
   
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Eldenfirefly wrote:
I like what they have done with Tsons and DG so far. I started and expanded armies of both Tsons and DG in 9th edition and had fun playing both. They feel different from the CSM armies (of which I have lots because CSM was my first love).

EC, WE, Tsons and DG all have enough lore to support having their own books. The key thing is to diversify their units such that they have their own armies. DG is the most extreme example of this. There are very few DG units that rely on CSM existing rooster. Most DG army lists these days use exclusively the new DG sculpts and the new DG units.

Tsons went this direction as well with the new rubric and Occult sculpts once they made good rules for these core units.

And both have a very distinct way of playing and style that set them apart from "CSM army variation 7".

If they can do this with EC and WE, it would be great. The only issue is that if they do this, I am not sure if what is left in the core CSM codex is interesting enough. It feels like it should be, but we will have to see.

I mean, there are still distinctly CSM codex units. Possessed feels like World bearers, Obliterators for Iron warriors. Black legion has Abaddon.

The challenge now is whether they have enough to form a new WE or EC codex. Not just in terms of lore (because I am sure there are tons of EC and WE lore). But in terms of actual sculpts and new units. I mean, if you are going to make WE an entire codex by itself, you really need to have some dedicated WE sculpts and units. It shouldn't be just a case of "I repaint my CSM army red and call it a day".


If GW can make 20 unique primaris captains and primaris lts, they can add a bit of variety to make World Eaters and Emperor's Children feel different.

In many cases, it's just a matter of letting you take a couple daemon engines, adding in the core unit (Berzerkers/Noise Marines) and giving us a terminator-equivalent sculpt and a few key characters (Kharn/Lucius, etc) on top of the Primarch (Angron/Fulgrim). Everything else is a cherry on top. I'm not saying that this is easy to do, and it's a lot of chaos to have, but World Eaters and Emperor's Children are far more visually distinct than Dark Angels and Blood Angels, at least.

Also, regular Chaos Marines will always have a place. People love Black Legion, renegade chapters, and the other 4 undivided chapters.
   
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Gert wrote:Chaos Daemons was May 2008 and 4th Ed ended in July 2008. 4th Ed CSM was released 7 months prior to Daemons in September 2007.

so I was one edition behind, now I feel old
drbored wrote:Yeah, then the whole idea of supplements came out in 6th edition iirc? We saw Iyanden and Khorne Daemonkin, and of course a million Space Marine chapters each get their own supplement.

3rd, the idea of supplements came out in 3rd edition
Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Craftworld Eldar and Catachans were Supplements

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
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 kodos wrote:
drbored wrote:Yeah, then the whole idea of supplements came out in 6th edition iirc? We saw Iyanden and Khorne Daemonkin, and of course a million Space Marine chapters each get their own supplement.

3rd, the idea of supplements came out in 3rd edition
Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Craftworld Eldar and Catachans were Supplements


Yeah I remember starting in 4th Edition with the 3E Blood Angels Supplement and 4E SM 'dex. I've since gone back and collected every legal 4E book and I honestly miss the original supplement style. Only the unique profiles were printed in the book and every other entry either said "Refer to Codex Space Marines" or "Refer to Codex Space Marines and make the following changes:". The new SM supplements are very close to that style thankfully though I could do without the weird "If this model is from the DA chapter it can take..." sprinkled throughout the base codex.

Of course it also helped that at the time codexes were $30 and supplements $15 (iirc that's how much I paid at a FLGS). So buying two books to play one army didn't really "feel bad".

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/28 10:12:50


 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




More stuff:

Alpha legion
•-1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
•Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
•Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap

Emperor's children
•Ignore any/all modifiers to ws / bs
•Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
•wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6

Red corsairs
•Charge if they advanced
•Models count as 2 for obsec
Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
•wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap

Creations of bile
•+1 str/move
•Fight after death in melee
•wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound

Random renegade traits
•+4" to range other than grenade and relic
•After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game
   
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos






Dudeface wrote:
More stuff:

Alpha legion
•-1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
•Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
•Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap

Emperor's children
•Ignore any/all modifiers to ws / bs
•Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
•wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6

Red corsairs
•Charge if they advanced
•Models count as 2 for obsec
Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
•wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap

Creations of bile
•+1 str/move
•Fight after death in melee
•wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound

Random renegade traits
•+4" to range other than grenade and relic
•After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game


Thanks !

Not sure how I feel about EC losing fight first but unmodifiable WS/BS sound really good, especially with Noise Marines since they'll pretty much always be advancing. And telsa on assaults also looks really good (especially with a big bomb of Warp talons).

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
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Flood gates opening.

More stuff from clockworkchris at B&C:

Chosen can choose and additional trait, it has now been confirmed that this trait is one of the traits from the build a warband ruleset. I posted earlier today 2 of those traits.

For core and characters, you can purchase a gift of the gods
Khorne: +1S on the charge

I am willing to guess what the others will be.

Unmarked units gain some support from stratagems & renegade traits

Venomcrawler
•is now FA
•is a bit faster (my guess 12" instead of 10")
•now gives +1 to psychic tests
•claws and mechatentrites are now just 1 weapon (again my guess this means the claw profile may be getting +2a)
•ws3 bs3

No changes to disco lord

We are getting "daemon gifts", these are buff you can buy for CORE or CHARACTERS.

Khorne +1s to charges
Tzeentch ignore damage on first failed save
Slaanesh fight first in the fight phase
Nurgle -1 damage

Obliterators
•have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
•ignore modifier for heavy weapons
•armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
•Has 3 shooting profiles
Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/28 19:46:28


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Well, at least Obliterators have less Randumb for their shooting. That's nice.

I don't like EC ignoring ALL modifiers to hit. I think any first modifier is pretty reasonable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also don't think falling back and charging is very Alpha Legion-ish

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/28 20:20:21


 
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






Damn ! Oblits are looking good ! Too bad you still can't buy them on their own

I'm also surprised the Disco lord wasn't nerfed since it one of our high performing unit. Point hikes incoming I guess

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
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Hmm, oblits not being randumb and actually back to being able to do anything is a nice touch.

I am more curious about the cultists /traitor guard and the HQ / flag bearer for those.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

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Never Forget Isstvan!






Sorry, what? The super doctrines are different for each Legion trait? I don't buy that.
Also, those Daemonic Gifts seem hella good and unless there are limitations like DW KT Specialisms or Drukhari Favoured Retinues, they're going to be waaay too good not to take. Very suspicious IMO.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/28 22:02:19


 
   
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Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 Gert wrote:
Sorry, what? The super doctrines are different for each Legion trait? I don't buy that.
Also, those Daemonic Gifts seem hella good and unless there are limitations like DW KT Specialisms or Drukhari Favoured Retinues, they're going to be waaay too good not to take. Very suspicious IMO.


I mean space wolves super doctrine is different to the Blood angels one, so seems expected to me?

As you know daemonic upgrades historically cost a wide range of points, I would hope these aren't free.

These all seem a bit sus, but we just had 3 weeks of eldar rumours with lots of people decrying them every page only for them to pan out, it's a good time to be reading rumours!
   
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Never Forget Isstvan!






Is super doctrine for Marines not just Combat Doctrines? The only different between the basic Codex variant and the DW variant is choosing which one I want in a given turn, not massive differences based on subfactions.
The big about the Gifts was more to focus on the fact that similar instances are a case of one each/detachment that are still paid upgrades i.e. you can have one Trueborn unit or one type of Kill Team Specialism for like +1 Power/X points.
   
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Super Doctrine is the "when in X doctrine, gain Y bonus" every chapter has.

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Rihgu wrote:
Super Doctrine is the "when in X doctrine, gain Y bonus" every chapter has.


Yeah, this is already established.

Also, the concern about EC losing their 'fight first' bonus seems to be... reversed if they have Mark of Slaanesh...?

I'm more curious about "tzeentch ignore damage on first failed save" does that mean if you only make one save against a weapon, say a lascannon, and you fail it, do you just ignore all the damage from that? Need a lot more clarification on that.

Oblits look decent. Getting d3 attacks at the s9 level is going to... hurt if there are no stratagems or other abilities to re-roll that. I can imagine a squad of 3 oblits getting 3-4 attacks out of that and just... not doing anything. But, such is the way with high strength weapons.

Alpha Legion is also a bit odd. -1 to hit them from range, but then when they do get into close range (and get the super doctrine) they get better AP. Interesting.

EC ignoring any/all modifiers to WS and BS means that it can't be improved either, and doesn't that go against what was said earlier about EC getting better to-hit on thunder hammers? Some of these are starting to contradict each other, which is making me more and more sus. The internal balance of it all is swinging wide, as well. I guess we'll see what it all boils down to. We didn't even get a tease of Chaos stuff in the LVO reveals, but hopefully we'll see something soon...
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





Emperors children changes are nice, im fine with fight first being a paid for bonus. Moves them more towards perfection focused and those who are blessed get the daemonic speed. Their super doctrine kicking in in 3rd turn is cute and also fits them likely loosing all control.

EC oblits will be scary, firing full BS in combat, especially if "honour the prince" is still around to drop, shoot and charge.

Im hoping that the rumoured cultist banner allows cultist squads to replenish, if so could see core of my army being 30-40 cultists, noise marines, thunderhammer chosen with lord in drop pod.

I also hope we see either some hq options go to elites or get a "3 options 1 slot" or "lord lets these be none force org" because chaos often feels very limited to lord/sorc/dark apostle or disco lord as others while great struggle for the slot space.
   
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Ohio

I'm suspicious of these rumors. As an Alpha Legion player, I'm also a little let down by their trait. Seems a bit out of sorts for them.

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Tons!
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EviscerationPlague wrote:
CSM have proven they can work with one codex via the 7th Edition book + the supplement. It just needs correct internal balance.


*Cough*

You mean the outdated 6th ed Codex. The Traitor Legions supplement that showed up about 5 months before the entire ruleset was overhauled. And the FW Imperial Armour book because no CSM army was running without that during 6th and 7th edition 40k.

Also, the 6th ed Codex was awful. And we basically got lumped with it and its horrific imbalanced self for the majority of 2 editions. Traitor Legions was literally a band aid that did a LOT of heavy lifting to fix it and we got that for a grand total of about 5 months.


Now only a CSM player. 
   
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Dakka Veteran




 DarkStarSabre wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
CSM have proven they can work with one codex via the 7th Edition book + the supplement. It just needs correct internal balance.


*Cough*

You mean the outdated 6th ed Codex. The Traitor Legions supplement that showed up about 5 months before the entire ruleset was overhauled. And the FW Imperial Armour book because no CSM army was running without that during 6th and 7th edition 40k.

Also, the 6th ed Codex was awful. And we basically got lumped with it and its horrific imbalanced self for the majority of 2 editions. Traitor Legions was literally a band aid that did a LOT of heavy lifting to fix it and we got that for a grand total of about 5 months.

I meant 6th edition sorry, but the point still stands it CAN work. The little amount of time that people got use out of the Traitor Legion supplement is disgusting.
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
CSM have proven they can work with one codex via the 7th Edition book + the supplement. It just needs correct internal balance.


*Cough*

You mean the outdated 6th ed Codex. The Traitor Legions supplement that showed up about 5 months before the entire ruleset was overhauled. And the FW Imperial Armour book because no CSM army was running without that during 6th and 7th edition 40k.

Also, the 6th ed Codex was awful. And we basically got lumped with it and its horrific imbalanced self for the majority of 2 editions. Traitor Legions was literally a band aid that did a LOT of heavy lifting to fix it and we got that for a grand total of about 5 months.

I meant 6th edition sorry, but the point still stands it CAN work. The little amount of time that people got use out of the Traitor Legion supplement is disgusting.


It really didn't. I just showed that up. The Codex was awful. The supplements did all the work. Up until the supplements CSM were dead in the water for the most part unless you spammed specific builds.

And if your army becomes -Spam X or Lose- the book is a dud. I was one of the higher ranking Death Guard players at the time in the ITC rankings. And 6th burned me out. The book was just not that well done. Everything that came after it, with the exception of Orks, just ramped up in terms of power. Sorry, that book was weak. It was uninspired and lead to some rather boring monobuilds.

And it wasn't just 'a single Codex' - Eldar pulled off a single Codex in that edition.CSM literally was a dud until IA vol. 13 and then the Traitor Legions supplement.


Now only a CSM player. 
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Spoiler:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
CSM have proven they can work with one codex via the 7th Edition book + the supplement. It just needs correct internal balance.


*Cough*

You mean the outdated 6th ed Codex. The Traitor Legions supplement that showed up about 5 months before the entire ruleset was overhauled. And the FW Imperial Armour book because no CSM army was running without that during 6th and 7th edition 40k.

Also, the 6th ed Codex was awful. And we basically got lumped with it and its horrific imbalanced self for the majority of 2 editions. Traitor Legions was literally a band aid that did a LOT of heavy lifting to fix it and we got that for a grand total of about 5 months.

I meant 6th edition sorry, but the point still stands it CAN work. The little amount of time that people got use out of the Traitor Legion supplement is disgusting.


It really didn't. I just showed that up. The Codex was awful. The supplements did all the work. Up until the supplements CSM were dead in the water for the most part unless you spammed specific builds.

And if your army becomes -Spam X or Lose- the book is a dud. I was one of the higher ranking Death Guard players at the time in the ITC rankings. And 6th burned me out. The book was just not that well done. Everything that came after it, with the exception of Orks, just ramped up in terms of power. Sorry, that book was weak. It was uninspired and lead to some rather boring monobuilds.

And it wasn't just 'a single Codex' - Eldar pulled off a single Codex in that edition.CSM literally was a dud until IA vol. 13 and then the Traitor Legions supplement.

I'll second that. IA 13 was the only thing that kept me playing through 7th. Traitor Legions was great as well, but short lived. The 6th/7th edition CSM codex was barely any better than the 4th edition mess, and the 8th edition codex wasn't much of an improvement over it. We've had 3 lackluster codexes in a row. Here's hoping this one finally breaks that cycle.
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






drbored wrote:


Oblits look decent. Getting d3 attacks at the s9 level is going to... hurt if there are no stratagems or other abilities to re-roll that. I can imagine a squad of 3 oblits getting 3-4 attacks out of that and just... not doing anything. But, such is the way with high strength weapons.



Yeah, maybe the new rampant techno virus will help that for IW ? I'm more impressed by the Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1. That's a lot of shots with AP1 ! And during the first doctrine (I wish they chose other names then just: "synonyms of kill") that's a minimum of 30 st5 ap1 dmg1 shots with exploding 6s ! If you can still give them +1str that's wounding a blob of Skitarii rangers on 2s !

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
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Fixture of Dakka







drbored wrote:
EC ignoring any/all modifiers to WS and BS means that it can't be improved either, and doesn't that go against what was said earlier about EC getting better to-hit on thunder hammers?

Not necessarily - don't Thunder Hammers have the "-1 to hit with attacks with this weapon" rule? If so, and EC get to ignore that, then they'd be better with thunder hammers.

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
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 l0k1 wrote:
As an Alpha Legion player, I'm also a little let down by their trait.
Didn't you know? Alpha Legion are all about subterfuge, infiltration, sabotage and close ranged bloody massacres.



 DarkStarSabre wrote:
The Traitor Legions supplement that showed up about 5 months before the entire ruleset was overhauled.
#Neva4Get

Spoiler:







This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/29 10:00:54


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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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Wicked Warp Spider





Ohio

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 l0k1 wrote:
As an Alpha Legion player, I'm also a little let down by their trait.
Didn't you know? Alpha Legion are all about subterfuge, infiltration, sabotage and close ranged bloody massacres.



Alpha Legion at 12-18 inches, World Eaters at 6-12


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 l0k1 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 l0k1 wrote:
As an Alpha Legion player, I'm also a little let down by their trait.
Didn't you know? Alpha Legion are all about subterfuge, infiltration, sabotage and close ranged bloody massacres.



Alpha Legion at 12-18 inches, World Eaters at 6-12


I'd say World Eaters shorter than that, steroids are not great for certain things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/29 23:59:19


 
   
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Australia

 Dysartes wrote:
drbored wrote:
EC ignoring any/all modifiers to WS and BS means that it can't be improved either, and doesn't that go against what was said earlier about EC getting better to-hit on thunder hammers?

Not necessarily - don't Thunder Hammers have the "-1 to hit with attacks with this weapon" rule? If so, and EC get to ignore that, then they'd be better with thunder hammers.


Also worth being skeptical of the precise wording being shown in these rumours. The trait could simply be e.g. "ignore any and all negative modifiers" and the leaker/guy communicating with him as just chosen to write it a certain way. The latter chap is no linguist.

If the rule is just "ignore all negative modifiers", then EC having Chosen that hit on 2s with thunder hammers still lines up (as the rumoured Slaanesh icon gives +1 to hit in melee).

Anyway, the aforementioned guy claiming to be communicating with the leaker did a new summary with all the information collected in one place today on B&C. Don't think there's anything new but it's nice to have it all in one place:

Spoiler:

CSM doctrine:

Similar to SM Doctrine, except exploding 6s (unmodified hits) instead of +1AP. Still 3 levels that affefct different weapons (the weapons listed below are not confirmed by my sources, but the ones in the legion traits are confirmed by my sources as well as the names, so what I am about to list may be subject to change)
Destruction ''Doctrine'': Heavy/grenade
Massacre ''Doctrine'': Rapid fire/assault
Slaughter ''Doctrine'': pistol/melee

Marks:

Can only be applied to CORE & CHARACTERS

Icons: (purchaseable upgrade)

vengeance +1 CA
wrath +1ap melee
flame +1ap shooting
excess +1 to hit melee
despair 6s to hit = autowound

''Daemonic Gifts'': (purchaseable upgrade)

Khorne: +1S on the charge
Nurgle: -1 damage
Tzeentch: ignore all damage on first missed save
Slaanesh: fight first in the fight phase





All legions are getting 6 WT, 8 relics & 8 stratagems each (seems to be a lot from F&F but with some tweaks)



Legion rule:



NL

-2LD & -1CA @ 9''
+1 to advance & +1 to charges
Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee vs below half strenght unit or LD 6 and below = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

6" aura that cancels obsec

Relics

Jump pack: moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+

Stratagems

Vox scream: cancels AURAS
Jump pack DS turn 1

IW

Ignores cover
Reduce ap1/2 by 1
Wanton Destruction: Heavy/grenade vs vehicules/buildings/units in cover = +1 to wound (Super doctrine)

WLT

Some way to give +1 damage to certain units



WB

Charges/HI = reroll hits
5+++ vs MW
Wanton Slaughter: When using a pistol/assault/melee = 6s to wound cause 1MW (capped @ 3MW per unit) (Super doctrine)



BL

ignore CA
+1 to hit when charge or shoot closest unit
Wanton Massacre: rapid fire/assault/pistol = exploding 5s (hit) (Super doctrine)



Alpha legion

-1 to hit 12" away, if wounds are 10+ then it's 18"
Can charge and perform actions if they fell back
Wanton massacre (super doctrine):Rapid fire, assault, pistol if within half range +1 ap


Emperor's children

Ignore any/all negative modifiers to ws / bs
Any attack on a 6 to wound +1ap
wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on a 6 gives additional hit, combine this with the slaughter bonus and you'd get 2 additional hits on 6
Side note, this matches up with a 4chan leak that said TH chosen could hit on 2s with EC (legion trait+icon of excess)


Red corsairs

Charge if they advanced
Models count as 2 for obsec; Models with 10+ wounds count as 5
wanton destruction (super doctrine): Heav, rapid, grenade get +1ap


Creations of bile

+1 str/move
Fight after death in melee
wanton slaughter (super doctrine): Melee hits on 6 auto wound


''Build a warband'' renegade traits

+4" to range other than grenade and relic
After killing a unit, the unit is then considered to be in destruction, massacre and slaughter for the rest of the game

WE

Not in the codex





Datasheet info:



Disco lord

not much change

Cypher

In the codex



Cult units (berzerkers/rubrics/plague marines, only noise marines are stille in the codex because EC wont be getting their own book very soon)

Are no longuer in the codex
Act like harlequins in CWE army, or like Scions in Guard (including them is like including fabius bile, it doesnt cancel you legion trait)
Always Elites
can benefit from army rules
Cannot gain a legion trait

Fallen

No in the codex

Chosen

3w
Stat wise similar to CSM troops (6'' S4 T4 3+/no invul)
No news on WS BS or A
can use TH (unconfirmed)
Gain gain an additional trait that you can choose, this trait is one of traits from the list of build a warband traits

Terminators

Loadout options similar to DG blightlords
Only thing I was told is that we could no longer have an all LC loadout as a hint.

Greater possessed

No in the codex

Possessed

S5 T5 3W 5A
unit of 10 (do not know if this is total or max)
Personnal guess: either the greater possessed model will be the new stand possessed model, or it will be an upgrade to the standard possessed unit

Mutilators

no longer in the book



Warp talon

lost cancel overwatch
gained no fallback
5a (these are total with claws)



Raptors

still have the -1LD aura
+2a

Venomcrawler

is now FA
is a bit faster (my guess 12" instead of 10")
now gives +1 to psychic tests
claws and mechatentrites are now just 1 weapon (again my guess this means the claw profile may be getting +2a)
ws3 bs3

Obliterators

have essentially big guns never tire(shoot into engagement range with -1 to hit)
ignore modifier for heavy weapons
armed with powerfists without -1 to hit
Has 3 shooting profiles:
Heavy 9+d6 s5 ap1 d1
Heavy 3+d3 s7 ap2 d2
Heavy d3 s9 ap3 d4



Havocs

exactly the same as right now but 2w



Stratagems

something to ignore invuls (4chan leak, so take with a grain of salt, leak said EC chosen could destory custodes hitting with TH on a 2+ and with strat ignore invul saves)

Other:

New cultist unit HQ
New mutant culstists
Unmarked units gain some support from stratagems and renegade traits (build a warband)

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There's a bit new info in there. It includes Warlord Traits for Night Lords, or some of them at least:

"WLT

6" aura that cancels obsec

Relics

Jump pack: moving over or charging units causes d3 MW on a 2+

Stratagems

Vox scream: cancels AURAS
Jump pack DS turn 1"
"

Cancelling obsec, auras, jump packs doing extra stuff... could it be? Could Night Lords really be getting some decent rules?
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

drbored wrote:
There's a bit new info in there.


Nah those aren't actually new, that information was first posted a while ago. Was posted on Dakka as well but evidently might not have made it onto this topic. Night Lords also already have a Vox Scream stratagem that allows them to shut down auras, but the others are new. Not a huge surprise though as I'd expect a good chunk of the Faith & Fury era material to stick around in some form.

The turn 1 DS stratagem is a little odd given that only matched play prevents you from deep striking on turn 1; not sure if there are any existing stratagems that only apply to matched play?

There was actually some new information provided/clarified today in the time since I made that post:



Just posted a correction. I made an error transcribing the nurgle daemonic gift. Misread it .

Nurgle daemonic gift.

-1 to wound instead of -1 damage.


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