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tneva82 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

You keep ignoring the very real fact that gws business is not built around the HH setting and their shops are not geared around HH stories.

His point was about lol at xenos.

There's no reason to expect xenos in this show. They certainly aren't gw's primary focus.

Marines are.

We can be sure marines are in,

Xenos? Much less so.

0% chance it's a show "about" marines.

There might be one Marine among an ensemble of characters. Or a squad might show up in a climactic episode. But it won't be a Space Marine Show.

 Olthannon wrote:
Also it's set in a city but they have to go to somewhere weird on the planet in episode 3 or 4.

Which happens to look exactly like Stanley Park or a Welsh quarry, depending on whether it’s filmed in Canada or the UK.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
That's hilarious, you must be a xenos player kind of guy to think GW cares about ensuring representation of any xenos.

Who the feth do you think the Marines are going to fight?

Other marines? Evil humans and their warp-spawned allies?

The fact GW do just license out individual stories and settings though suggests it's going to be an original story. If they just wanted to make Eisenhorn, or Gortrex or even Horus Heresy, they would just license those stories. No need to license the setting as a whole.

deano2099 wrote:
The fact GW do just license out individual stories and settings though suggests it's going to be an original story. If they just wanted to make Eisenhorn, or Gortrex or even Horus Heresy, they would just license those stories. No need to license the setting as a whole.

At the same time Amazon might feel that there's a future and the investment in the first series they do is just to establish sets, props, CGI material and such. So Amazon want more security for the future than a single production licence. So instead of securing "a licence" for a single production, they secure one that covers more ground, giving them more security for the future. It might mean that Amazon are shielding themselves from GW then going and getting Netflix and other streaming services also licencing material.

They should do a grimdark Better Off Ted about some Inquisitional order(s). There are so many fun minor ones (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisition#Ordo_Minoris) that could work well as as "office comedy" that could also create jumping off points for the wider 40K universe. Some interesting orders like these:

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ordo_Chronos
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ordo_Scriptus
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ordo_Redactus
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ordo_Originatus
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ordo_Barbarus

There's enough potential for absurd hijinks that appeals to a mainstream audience and can introduce everything else the 40k universe can offer without starting people who have no clue about it right in the middle of it. And yeah, for a more conventional introduction to the universe Abnett's Eisenhorn and its spin-offs would probably the best option when it comes to content vs. scale (apparently it's already in progress). Gaunt's Ghosts was inspired by the Sharpe books (that got an TV adaption) so… maybe? Although that seems like something with a scale when you have established a bit of a 40K "TV audience".

chaos0xomega wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
That's hilarious, you must be a xenos player kind of guy to think GW cares about ensuring representation of any xenos.

Who the feth do you think the Marines are going to fight?

Other marines? Evil humans and their warp-spawned allies?

Um... they could always bring Genestealers (cult or just purestrains - or both). Xenos of all trades since Space Hulk - not much explanation, extensive background, different designs or vehicles/ships/weapons/equipment/homeworlds/language/politics...

GSC would be the easiest. You can have primarily human antagonists for 95% of the show and then a pure strain as the final reveal/boss fight.

They should do a grimdark Father Ted!

“Sororitas! Reverse!”

“The Imperial credits were just resting in my account t”

“Will ye not have some tanna, inquisitor? Ah, ye will. Ye will ye will ye will.”

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
GSC would be the easiest. You can have primarily human antagonists for 95% of the show and then a pure strain as the final reveal/boss fight.

Do Deathwing - lone marine returns to homeworld to discover cult infestation. It's already been a short story and a comicbook, so why not add a third medium?

 Flinty wrote:
They should do a grimdark Father Ted!

“Sororitas! Reverse!”

“The Imperial credits were just resting in my account t”

“Will ye not have some tanna, inquisitor? Ah, ye will. Ye will ye will ye will.”

"I hear you're a radical now, inquisitor."

 Mallo wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
They should do a grimdark Father Ted!

“Sororitas! Reverse!”

“The Imperial credits were just resting in my account t”

“Will ye not have some tanna, inquisitor? Ah, ye will. Ye will ye will ye will.”

"I hear you're a radical now, inquisitor."

“This squig is very small. Those squigs are far away.”

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

There's no reason to expect xenos in this show. They certainly aren't gw's primary focus.

Marines are.

We can be sure marines are in,

Xenos? Much less so.

No Xenos? So who do the Space Marines fight? Each other? Would lead back to HH.
"They certainly aren't gw's primary focus." - It's not up to them if they've sold the rights is it?

Personally, I really enjoyed the story of the first few HH books. Would make a great series of rather expensive movies, but not sure it's TV stuff.

I can see it being some kind of Imperial guard show. All the viewers are "but I thought Warhammer was space marines", then one appears in the final episode. Much like Luke in the Force awakens. lol

We do have this big baddy gw keeps promoting. Chaos

Lot easier to produce as well.

 Jadenim wrote:

 Mallo wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
They should do a grimdark Father Ted!

“Sororitas! Reverse!”

“The Imperial credits were just resting in my account t”

“Will ye not have some tanna, inquisitor? Ah, ye will. Ye will ye will ye will.”

"I hear you're a radical now, inquisitor."

“This squig is very small. Those squigs are far away.”

It's Necromunda's biggest lingerie section. Or so I've heard.

I’m now imagining Mrs Doyle falling from the window sill. Atop a Hive Spire.

I have no idea why people keep saying 'Eisenhorn'. Abnettverse is not 40K, you could pretend it once was but now that he lost all the brakes recently it became so glaringly obvious it's not even funny. Magic copied from Earthsea? Protagonists finding lightsaber totally not stol--- inspired by certain other franchise owned by Disney (can you say 'lawsuit')? Perpetuals? Your desk computer unraveling all secrets of Chaos by bashing together random letters for a few years? Magic photos?

Etc, etc, this random nonsense copied from whatever Abnett saw last week jarringly not fitting into 40K on its own wouldn't be that big of a deal but any company wanting to build a franchise here would either need to get rid of all of the above so its next offering in 40K range keeps the same tone or lose all the audience liking Abnett stuff the very moment they do 'regular' 40K. It just doesn't work, IMO.

Amazon should do smart thing and make Ciaphas Cain series, Cavill would make a good Cain, protagonists are mostly relatable humans, there is lots of natural humor lightening all the grimdark elements, and Cain series episodic format that doesn't keep straight chronology would lend itself to TV show extremely well. Also, Cain fights virtually any opponent 40K has to offer so no matter who you want to use, there is always a story about it and author did a really good job keeping cast diverse so it's ready to go with zero changes and rewriting on this front too...

Well, if a Caiphus Cain series flops, we can always look forward to hearing an Amazon executive saying, “if I knew then what I know now. I never would have…”

But seriously either an Inquisitor or Rogue Trader series would make the most sense to me as an intro to the 40kCU. Keeps the scale human, and allows them to flesh out the setting.

Valete,

JohnS

Inquisitors, Rogue Traders, and Commissars are all boring as hell.

In an ideal world, we'd start off with a "Band of Brothers" styled Guard series. We don't need every single iota of the universe explained to us or the audience in detail--that's what the in-universe propaganda pieces can be used for.

Would you like to know more?

 Irbis wrote:
I have no idea why people keep saying 'Eisenhorn'. Abnettverse is not 40K, you could pretend it once was but now that he lost all the brakes recently it became so glaringly obvious it's not even funny. Magic copied from Earthsea? Protagonists finding lightsaber totally not stol--- inspired by certain other franchise owned by Disney (can you say 'lawsuit')? Perpetuals? Your desk computer unraveling all secrets of Chaos by bashing together random letters for a few years? Magic photos?

Etc, etc, this random nonsense copied from whatever Abnett saw last week jarringly not fitting into 40K on its own wouldn't be that big of a deal but any company wanting to build a franchise here would either need to get rid of all of the above so its next offering in 40K range keeps the same tone or lose all the audience liking Abnett stuff the very moment they do 'regular' 40K. It just doesn't work, IMO.

Amazon should do smart thing and make Ciaphas Cain series, Cavill would make a good Cain, protagonists are mostly relatable humans, there is lots of natural humor lightening all the grimdark elements, and Cain series episodic format that doesn't keep straight chronology would lend itself to TV show extremely well. Also, Cain fights virtually any opponent 40K has to offer so no matter who you want to use, there is always a story about it and author did a really good job keeping cast diverse so it's ready to go with zero changes and rewriting on this front too...

People keep saying Eisenhorn bevause the initial announcement about GW developing a streaming series with Cavill and Amazon was about an adaptation of Eisenhorn. You might not think it's real 40k, but GW and everyone else seems to.

Plus its a decently well known character who can work in a mostly human and Imperial setting which doesn't really on big battles, titans, armed forces or anything.

There's a huge scope to also do stories that aren't from the books and which flesh out as "adventure of the week" format or even just do a long puzzle quest over several episodes and such.

Perhaps of interest to the discussion? The opening paragraph from Rogue Trader.

For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the master of mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium to whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, for whom blood is drunk and flesh eaten. Human blood and human flesh - the stuff of which the Imperium is made.

To be a man in such times is to be one among untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of these times. It is a universe you can live today if you dare - for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort or hope. If you want to take part in the adventure then prepare yourself now. Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace among the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.

But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed…

In theory the first words the first players of 40K ever read to prime them on what was to come. And it still stands up pretty well now.

That is 40K boiled down to its core. The mission statement. That is what the show needs to convert first and foremost.

If they have an opening scroll, it needs to contain “In the grim darkness of the far future…”

Well if this thread has shown me anything it is the sheer damage the HH series has done to people's perception of 40k...

Now, if some of us lot think that everything should revolve around oversized manchildren, that all of a sudden MUST be 9ft tall, as we live in the manosphere in 40k and everything has to to be ridiculously tall to be relevant, what do you think the uninitiated are going to think if you present that as their doorway into 40k?

We've already seen it happen. Just take a peek at the various 40k subs on Reddit like r/40klore or r/ImaginaryWarhammer to see how this cancer of Primarch spank effects literally everything around it, despite only being a minor part of the 40k universe.

Watching the two free episodes on Warhammer TV convinces me that 40K could work as a nod to Tales Of The Unexpected, hosted by Tzeentch or Cegorach, maybe in the Crystal Labyrinth or the Black Library. Maybe both?

GW gave us a series of 50+ books focusing on the primarchs and basically turned them into the closest thing to "main characters" that exist in the setting. They ate the Luke Skywalkers and Kylo Rens and Darth Vaders of the setting.

A big problem with 40k storytelling is there aren't really any equivalents because 40k is a patchwork mosaic of independent plotlines whereas HH was a concerted and directed effort in writing an epic saga. If GW could come up with a set of primary POV characters that feature through the advancing plot of the setting for more than ~3 books they can probably shift the emphasis onto soneone/something else.

So GW could avoid the mistakes of the Star Wars franchise by simply not adapting the Horus Heresy? That’s a great reason for them not to do it!

As for the rest, there’s Gaunt and co, Eisenhorn and co, Cain and co, Gorgias and co, Calpurnia, Kal Jericho, the Eldar from the Eldar trilogies, Ahriman, the Space Wolves characters, the Inquisitor trilogy characters, etc.. there are are a lot of characters who fill out an omnibus (or two!) with three novels and some short stories.

It will be a series about an Ork clan fighting off a Dark Eldar invasion. I doubt the Imperium even gets a mention.

 Grimtuff wrote:
We've already seen it happen. Just take a peek at the various 40k subs on Reddit like r/40klore or r/ImaginaryWarhammer to see how this cancer of Primarch spank effects literally everything around it, despite only being a minor part of the 40k universe.

And that's exactly why they'd be likely to do something like that. Because that's actually what's popular, and that's what 40k's media output wider than the older hobby actually consists of.

If you check the memes, the social media, the jokes, and the tiktoks (yes, I mention it), it's not Cain, Ravenor, Eisenhorn, or the human characters getting the most attention. It's the Space Marines, and more specifically, Primarchs. Even if they don't do 30k, I think they're missing a trick not doing it about Space Marines, because *that's* what 40k's legacy is.

Adapt Ian Watson stuff. Give us Biff the Imperial Fist entering a hiveship through the anus.