Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
These previews were going so well, until this phrase appeared:



Mortal Wound.

*sigh*

To be fair, they said it was rare.
Of course, knowing GW, it will probably be rare up until they want to sell a new unit.

Blastaar wrote:
This is not future-proofing. Future-proofing is writing the main rules in such a way that new units can be added to the game later without causing balance problems or requiring new mechanics to function properly because the core of the game was designed to support them to begin with. Limiting options so severely is withholding content, so that they can charge us again for the same product.

GW has been making games for 30+ years- the time "wait and see" how 8th, KT or whatever develops, or to "be patient" is long past. They should be able to get things right by now.

Can you give it up already?
The game is very clearly designed to be added onto. The Grey Knights are a clear example of future proofing.
They've hardly 'limited options' - since from the get go we didn't know what we could use, and all units so far have all their equipment options.
Nobody cares that you don't like it, and since you clearly aren't interested in the final product, you're just wasting your time and ours.
Go play Heralds of Ruin. Or make your own ruleset.
But consistently posting here in such a negative mindset is akin to a kind of insanity.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
These previews were going so well, until this phrase appeared:



Mortal Wound.

*sigh*

To be fair, they said it was rare.
Of course, knowing GW, it will probably be rare up until they want to sell a new unit.

It also seems highly situational (only on your Leader, only when in close combat), costs 2 CP (which mostly seem to slowly trickle in) and doesn't even work half the time. That seems like a place I'm willing to let them be in, as a nice fluffy nod if you feel like using that pet daemon / spirit guide / JoJo stand your leaderdude hangs with in your headcanon. 'Cause competitive it ain't, son.

 HorticulusDK wrote:
So the content of "Kill Team : Rogue Trader" would be :

The "Elucidian Starstriders" Team :

- 1 Rogue Trader Elucia Vhane
- 1 Lectro-Maester Larsen Van Der Grauss
- 1 Rejuvenat Adept Sanistasia Minst
- 1 Executionner Knosso Prond
- 1 Voidmaster Nitsch
- 3 Voidguards (?)
- 1 Voidguard with Autocanon
- 1 Voidguard Imperial Dog

The "Gellerpox Mutants" Team :

- 1 Vulgrar Thrice-Cursed
- 3 Nightmare Hulks
- 3 Gellerpox Mutants
- 4 Glitchlings
- 10 Mutoid Vermin (4 Flies Swarm, 4 Mites, 2 Maggots)

Space ship tiles and small plastic objectives / scenery

This but still looks really interesting despite my increasing issues with the core system (Necromunda lite with 40k copy paste units and no proper customisation)

Hopefully they will also get 40k stats in the same way as Shadespire get AOS stats

Lictors and Primaris and other multi-wound models laugh at your one mortal wound generation on a 4+ within 1" with your leader. If my Lictor is in combat with your leader to use that strategy, then I'm already happy. Go ahead, use it. Next turn you'll be paste on the floor and my Lictor will return to the shadows.

Also if you look at the Rogue Trader board, there's little stars and wall lines. It's clear that your movement and sight will be limited, with the 'terrain' marking where doors and objectives are more than anything else.

 Sherrypie wrote:
It also seems highly situational (only on your Leader, only when in close combat), costs 2 CP (which mostly seem to slowly trickle in) and doesn't even work half the time. That seems like a place I'm willing to let them be in, as a nice fluffy nod if you feel like using that pet daemon / spirit guide / JoJo stand your leaderdude hangs with in your headcanon. 'Cause competitive it ain't, son.

Not really the point I was making.

The ability itself? Couldn't care less. I'm more concerned about the presence of Mortal Wounds, the single most lazy rule GW has come up with in the past decade. 40K is now just a bunch of different methods of delivering mortal wounds (or +1/-1 auras, or re-roll/re-roll 1's auras). Look at the Exalted C'Tan abilities - just slightly different ways of putting out mortal wounds.

Now we have Mortal Wounds in KT.

Top list in current 40k don't rely on the mechanic to dish out a tons of mortal wounds aside from the thousand sons.

The presence of mortal wounds in current competitive 40k only exist in a smite spam list that barely exist anymore.

Mortal wound is acceptable if it isn't the ultimate competitive choice.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
These previews were going so well, until this phrase appeared:
Mortal Wound.
*sigh*

Where have you been?

Neronoxx wrote:

Blastaar wrote:
This is not future-proofing. Future-proofing is writing the main rules in such a way that new units can be added to the game later without causing balance problems or requiring new mechanics to function properly because the core of the game was designed to support them to begin with. Limiting options so severely is withholding content, so that they can charge us again for the same product.

GW has been making games for 30+ years- the time "wait and see" how 8th, KT or whatever develops, or to "be patient" is long past. They should be able to get things right by now.

Can you give it up already?
The game is very clearly designed to be added onto. The Grey Knights are a clear example of future proofing.
They've hardly 'limited options' - since from the get go we didn't know what we could use, and all units so far have all their equipment options.
Nobody cares that you don't like it, and since you clearly aren't interested in the final product, you're just wasting your time and ours.
Go play Heralds of Ruin. Or make your own ruleset.
But consistently posting here in such a negative mindset is akin to a kind of insanity.

If you want to discuss things under the lash of the Positivity Police, I recommend Facebook, where the Great Evil of Negativity is considered the most heinous of sins against Almighty GW.

Discussion doesn't require positive reactions, and folk who dislike it are every bit as entitled to say so and discuss why as you are to like it and discuss why.

I've been hearing a lot of people saying the game isnt actually alternating activations but instead some sort of weird alternating phase (you move, I move, you shoot, I shoot, etc.)

I couldve sworn GW said outright the game has alternating activations, where did they say differently?

Gimgamgoo wrote:I've not read all 60 pages, apologies if I missed this...

(Assuming I already have bucket loads of figures from a variety of armies)

If I get the rule book, will that allow me to play a full game? Or, am I going to need to wait for Kill Team War book 1, book 2, WD articles etc?

So far things are looking so close to 8th edition 40k that I expect it to be very easy to import your own stuff.

So the real question is whether or not your perspective opponents are open to that or will want to only play "by the book?"

That said, I would expect a supplement treadmill here. While we may not see necromunda style Gang War books, we already know that the faction expansions contain new tactics not in the core rules. So unless those are all available online for free, expect Kill Team to be the kind of game where you buy multiple products to get all the rules. Terrain kits will come with new kill zone rules or whatever. And it looks like there will be larger miniatures included expansions like Kill Team: Rogue Trader.

So will you need to get on the treadmill given your local community? I do not. We're already doing 8th edition 40k skirmish using the basic guidelines of Age of Sigmar: Skirmish and some house rules. If we like how kill team plays, we'll simply take our 8th edition codexes and include what we want. If we like the way 40k + AoS:Skirmish plays, we'll stick with that.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I've been hearing a lot of people saying the game isnt actually alternating activations but instead some sort of weird alternating phase (you move, I move, you shoot, I shoot, etc.)

I couldve sworn GW said outright the game has alternating activations, where did they say differently?

My understanding is that the movement phase is I-Go-U-Go, everything else is alternating.

the_scotsman wrote:
aaaaaaand you can very clearly see a reference to a Grey Knights psychic power that says "if the target is a Daemon..."

In a game mode.

That doesn't have any daemons.

Games workshop not givin a flying flip.

Yet. I'm sure they'll be along soon enough.

"If the target is a daemon, you win the game, else you lose"

*no daemons are introduced*

*GW Finally puts Grey Knights where they belong, in the same place that Squats do NOT belong*

*Squats return, everyone rejoyces*

Xorce wrote:
Top list in current 40k don't rely on the mechanic to dish out a tons of mortal wounds aside from the thousand sons.

The presence of mortal wounds in current competitive 40k only exist in a smite spam list that barely exist anymore.

Mortal wound is acceptable if it isn't the ultimate competitive choice.

H.B.M.C. has a point, and it's not whether mortal wounds dominate tournaments or not.

The C'tan has such amazing powers on his D6 table as cause mortal wound, cause mortal wounds, cause mortal wounds, such a classic as cause mortal wounds, another way to cause mortal wounds, and last but not least, cause mortal wounds. Isn't it wonderful?

The point is that instead of creating an ability or set of abilities where it makes sense that are thematic and fun to use, possibly even giving the player a range of options to choose from, GW's designers use the same overly abstract and generic rule to represent any number of things. This doesn't just add bloat (everyone does and should have an armor save, so we need armor penetration to lessen the effect of armor - now some units aren't as tough as they should be, so let's give them invulnerable saves - now that we've handed out invulnerable saves like candy, let's introduce mortal wounds that ignore invulnerable saves) for no real gain, mortal wounds go against the much propagated but completely hollow plea for forging a narrative by denying players flavorful options.

If you are of the opinion that the designers didn't do a good job on 8th ed, it's just not a good sign to see the same rules in Kill Team. Moreover, it's an even worse sign to see that the designers are apparently of the opinion that including these rules is a good idea.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I've been hearing a lot of people saying the game isnt actually alternating activations but instead some sort of weird alternating phase (you move, I move, you shoot, I shoot, etc.)

I couldve sworn GW said outright the game has alternating activations, where did they say differently?

My understanding is that the movement phase is I-Go-U-Go, everything else is alternating.

That's my takeaway from the rules 101 GW posted, too.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/14/kill-team-rules-101/

The relevant parts:

For the sake of speed, movement in Kill Team is handled on an I-go-you-go basis. After rolling off at the top of the turn, players take it in turns to move all their models – so far, not unlike Warhammer 40,000.

In Kill Team, the shooting and combat phases are tense, reactive affiar where players take it in turns to choose individual models to attack with.

Have to agree with H.B.M.C. - I think?

8th seems to have devolved into a Mortal Wounds and/or a +1/-1 and/or re-roll mechanic game.

Is it...not quite as simple as that?

Probably.

But it is pretty close.

Many people (myself included!) are looking forward to a skirmish game with more crunch in it - and Killteam *might* be that game - eventually?

Mortal Wounds, the single most lazy rule GW has come up with in the past decade.

Nah D weapons were worse along with the SH stomp mechanics in 7th.

Mortal Wounds are the answer to D from 7th - a method of wounding things that goes past the standard methods of protection.

Well... other than Feel No Pain-style saves.

It's layers of rule escalation, and unfortunately mortal wounds are so common that it's just absurd how many things do them.

I actually like that Smite and Perils do mortal wounds.

I hate that exploding vehicles do mortal wounds.

I would disagree that the rule itself shouldn't exist. But I would agree there's been some laziness in it's application.

Have we heard how many points the average game is supposed to be?

100 pts per team.

Woah I agree with HBMC.
That's... weird.
Anyway, way too much rule escalation in 40k, and it's even more ridiculous in Kill Team where the "extra" stuff really doesn't have any raison d'être.
Mortal wound are (supposed to be) here to represent some attack that is so so powerful that it can ignore even the incredible protection of something that gives an invulnerable save. Invulnerable save should already be relatively rare, and almost inexistent at a Kill Team scale. Mortal wounds therefore shouldn't be needed, and stuff this powerful should be entirely outside the scale of the game.

I don't suppose anyone has seen the cost of poxwalkers?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/18/18th-july-kill-team-focus-asuryanigw-homepage-post-1/

Eldars.

 BrookM wrote:
I don't suppose anyone has seen the cost of poxwalkers?

3 points according to Boos Salvage's post on the previous page

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1770/752823.page#10069400

 Geifer wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I don't suppose anyone has seen the cost of poxwalkers?

3 points according to Boos Salvage's post on the previous page
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1770/752823.page#10069400

And it's a clear bit of the screengrab, so confident that's right. You figure you can really take like 1 Plague Marine with meaty kit (~20 pts) and then 25 Poxwalkers? That's quite the horde As well as damn cinematic (and potentially in a bad place if their boss gets sniped, not sure how bottle tests work in KT).

By the by, here's what they do in KT, which is probably similar to 40k and seems legit for 3 points!

Also from CWE:



So yea, looking like there's a way to buy more CP ala AOS.

- Salvage

zamerion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/18/18th-july-kill-team-focus-asuryanigw-homepage-post-1/

Eldars.

"Sigh" - Resin Rangers but oh not Striking Scorpions, Guardians and Las Platform not Warp Spiders or a Dark Reaper - just stupid and Weak.....

re Mortal Wounds - I don't mind the mechanic myself.

Invulnerables are quite rare - Genestealers/Lictor's have one don't they - Sisters all have them but they were told not to come sadly

CWE:
Dire Avengers Exarch have one, and can grant another one to nearby DAs.

SM:
I'd bet the Storm Shield is in.

Harlequins:
4++ across the board

DE:
Don't Wyches get one?

TS:
I'd expect some

Tau:
Shield Drones?

I think more KTs will have an invuln option than won't. IG and DG might not have one.

Bharring wrote:
CWE:
Dire Avengers Exarch have one, and can grant another one to nearby DAs.

SM:
I'd bet the Storm Shield is in.

Harlequins:
4++ across the board

DE:
Don't Wyches get one?

TS:
I'd expect some

Tau:
Shield Drones?

I think more KTs will have an invuln option than won't. IG and DG might not have one.

Good points - more than I remembered! Wyches get 6++ against shooting and 4++ in combat.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/18/18th-july-kill-team-focus-asuryanigw-homepage-post-1/

4 chocies for Craftworld