Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

3-man unit size base, 5-man box with options for captain and libby!!

/wishlisting

Yeah, GW's not going to miss an opportunity to sell you a $45 Terminator Captain plus a $45 Terminator Librarian.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have to admit, the idea of a 3-man Terminator box is very upsetting.

5 terms for $80

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
3-man unit size base, 5-man box with options for captain and libby!!

/wishlisting

They did it with Evocators in AoS...could see it here too.

But with Lieutenants not Captains/Librarians.

 triplegrim wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Roll Three Dice wrote:
I agree - The focus on personalities and ‘Epic storylines’ tied to them seems completely at odds with what I always saw as the core appeal of 40k: Endless possibilities for making your own stories, because there isn’t one ‘main storyline’, and whatever happens, you will not be missed.

I completely agree. I liked it better when 40k was a setting within which stories are told, rather than a continually developing story.

BattleTech has a story. Things change. Nations rise and fall. Characters are killed, or get old and die. They have children. They grow up to be leaders or tyrants or cowards.

Meanwhile the Lion was asleep in the rock, Guillman was slowly healing in stasis, and Russ promised to return for the Wolf Time... but in the meantime, tell whatever story you want. I think things were better that way.

Yawn...

It was that way for 20 years. Stale. Time to actually deliver on some of this 5 minutes to midnight ragnarok stuff. I am happy they do something with the metaplot once in a great while.

So rather than let players have fun making stories you prefer forever locked status quo "I'll get you next time!" where nothing can change.

Got it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jaredb wrote:
I'm fairly certain it'll be a 5 man box, based on the video alone it had s 5 man squad.

That would mean squad with hq's in it.

There are already quite a few boxes that have configurations that allow you to build a squad, or a smaller squad and character(s).

 triplegrim wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Roll Three Dice wrote:
I agree - The focus on personalities and ‘Epic storylines’ tied to them seems completely at odds with what I always saw as the core appeal of 40k: Endless possibilities for making your own stories, because there isn’t one ‘main storyline’, and whatever happens, you will not be missed.

I completely agree. I liked it better when 40k was a setting within which stories are told, rather than a continually developing story.

BattleTech has a story. Things change. Nations rise and fall. Characters are killed, or get old and die. They have children. They grow up to be leaders or tyrants or cowards.

Meanwhile the Lion was asleep in the rock, Guillman was slowly healing in stasis, and Russ promised to return for the Wolf Time... but in the meantime, tell whatever story you want. I think things were better that way.

Yawn...

It was that way for 20 years. Stale. Time to actually deliver on some of this 5 minutes to midnight ragnarok stuff. I am happy they do something with the metaplot once in a great while.

It was only "stale" if you decided that nothing mattered except the non-existent "metaplot" and ignored the countless new stories, characters, planets, locations, events, campaigns etc had were regularly added, both big and small.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Roll Three Dice wrote:
I agree - The focus on personalities and ‘Epic storylines’ tied to them seems completely at odds with what I always saw as the core appeal of 40k: Endless possibilities for making your own stories, because there isn’t one ‘main storyline’, and whatever happens, you will not be missed.

I completely agree. I liked it better when 40k was a setting within which stories are told, rather than a continually developing story.

BattleTech has a story. Things change. Nations rise and fall. Characters are killed, or get old and die. They have children. They grow up to be leaders or tyrants or cowards.

Meanwhile the Lion was asleep in the rock, Guillman was slowly healing in stasis, and Russ promised to return for the Wolf Time... but in the meantime, tell whatever story you want. I think things were better that way.

Yawn...

It was that way for 20 years. Stale. Time to actually deliver on some of this 5 minutes to midnight ragnarok stuff. I am happy they do something with the metaplot once in a great while.

It was only "stale" if you decided that nothing mattered except the non-existent "metaplot" and ignored the countless new stories, characters, planets, locations, events, campaigns etc had were regularly added, both big and small.

Discussing this is like the special character discussion: ultimately futile, because either option will piss off roughly 50% of the community. People complained when it was a 'setting, not a story' and ridiculed the rhetoric of 'the clock ever creeping closer to midnight' but nothing ever really happening, and people complain now that we have actual plot advancement and comicbook superheroes. There's no pleasing everyone, GW is gonna do what GW is gonna do, apparently the big heroes and 'awesome' stories sell, until that changes your main options are to embrace it or ignore it, for it does not look like it's going away anytime soon. With a bit of luck they'll slow down once they wrecked one half of the Imperium and returned Fulgrim and maybe another couple of loyalists, when we've reached another stagnation phase, but with a generally darker galaxy and higher stakes.

 triplegrim wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Roll Three Dice wrote:
I agree - The focus on personalities and ‘Epic storylines’ tied to them seems completely at odds with what I always saw as the core appeal of 40k: Endless possibilities for making your own stories, because there isn’t one ‘main storyline’, and whatever happens, you will not be missed.

I completely agree. I liked it better when 40k was a setting within which stories are told, rather than a continually developing story.

BattleTech has a story. Things change. Nations rise and fall. Characters are killed, or get old and die. They have children. They grow up to be leaders or tyrants or cowards.

Meanwhile the Lion was asleep in the rock, Guillman was slowly healing in stasis, and Russ promised to return for the Wolf Time... but in the meantime, tell whatever story you want. I think things were better that way.

Yawn...

It was that way for 20 years. Stale. Time to actually deliver on some of this 5 minutes to midnight ragnarok stuff. I am happy they do something with the metaplot once in a great while.

First of all, it's 2 minutes to midnight. The hands that threaten doom. Kids these days.

Secondly, the problem with advancing the plot is that they cannot resolve it in a narratively compelling way. A story has a beginning, middle, and end. But they can never actually resolve this story without ending the setting and then having us play historical games (which I would actually prefer to what we got, but not what the Advance the Timeline crowd really wants methinks). So all we really get is shuffling of deck chairs. And that begs the question, other than an excuse to introduce new minis, what's the point? It's just changing things for the sake of changing things. I got into 40k because I liked the setting as is - if I wanted something different I'd look into other properties.

Problem is of course that the plot DOESN'T advance.

All we got was all room for player stories went away for locked up´status quo. GW cannot change the story as that would risk model sales.

So we lost benefit of setting while getting locked up status quo where nothing changes.

tneva82 wrote:
All we got was all room for player stories went away for locked up´status quo.

No, it didn't. There's an entire FETHING GALAXY to play in outside of the main plot.

This is Space Marines we're talking about.

It'll be a 5-man terminator box.
Then there'll be ANOTHER 5-man terminator box with a different loadout.

And then there'll be the terminator captain, librarian, chaplain, apothecary, tech marine, lieutenant, all in separate 40 dollar boxes.

And then ANOTHER 5-man terminator box with ANOTHER different loadout.

Please, why even debate this?

drbored wrote:
This is Space Marines we're talking about.

It'll be a 5-man terminator box.
Then there'll be ANOTHER 5-man terminator box with a different loadout.

And then there'll be the terminator captain, librarian, chaplain, apothecary, tech marine, lieutenant, all in separate 40 dollar boxes.

And then ANOTHER 5-man terminator box with ANOTHER different loadout.

Please, why even debate this?

This guy gets it.

$80 a box since they are bigger and newer.

5 Man "regular"

5 Man "assault"

Cyclone and Hvy. Flamer Upgrade pack

Characters as listed above at @$45... say $42.50 because that makes no sense.

Then don't forget to cycle in all the rest of the crap: BA/SW/DA/SW

For me, the best thing about 40K is that it can be whatever you want it to be. In my head canon, the Horus Heresy is legend rather than history, the Primarchs may or may not have ever been real, any rumours of one or two of them returning might just be wild stories or propaganda.

The big stories that GW put out are simply a backdrop and most parts of the galaxy are so far removed from those events as to make them irrelevant (if you want them to be).

My biggest complaint about special characters is that they should simply be examples of their archetype that players can use or take as inspiration when creating their own. They shouldn’t be more powerful that generic characters of equal stature. As an example Marneus Calgar, say, is a chapter master. The rules for generic Chapter Masters should enable players who invent their own chapters to create a leader just as powerful and interesting to play as him or any other named chapter master.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
The big stories that GW put out are simply a backdrop and most parts of the galaxy are so far removed from those events as to make them irrelevant (if you want them to be).

Part of Cypher's fluff is literally that parts of the fringe believe the Emperor is dead and that Cypher was his successor. The galaxy is HUGE and it takes time for information to filter across if at all.

Boosykes wrote:
Hate to say it but new terminators will be 3 to a box.

Not remotely any chance of this. As much chance as The Old World being 15mm.

What is probably going to happen is a first set of sculpts in starter box then a different kit/kits later with options. The layered pauldron in previews has a lack of undercut suggesting one piece moulding, not pauldron piece glued over shoulder piece.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Boosykes wrote:
Hate to say it but new terminators will be 3 to a box.

Not remotely any chance of this. As much chance as The Old World being 15mm.

How many terminators are in the Custodes box again? Not saying it will be three, but to say there isn't a remote chance is nonsensical.

 Platuan4th wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
All we got was all room for player stories went away for locked up´status quo.

No, it didn't. There's an entire FETHING GALAXY to play in outside of the main plot.

And this is still the case. Advancing the story and bringing back legendary figures doesn't change the fact that the setting is (still) large enough to accommodate almost any story a player might want to tell.

drbored wrote:
This is Space Marines we're talking about.

It'll be a 5-man terminator box.
Then there'll be ANOTHER 5-man terminator box with a different loadout.

And then there'll be the terminator captain, librarian, chaplain, apothecary, tech marine, lieutenant, all in separate 40 dollar boxes.

And then ANOTHER 5-man terminator box with ANOTHER different loadout.

Please, why even debate this?

We already have that, technically.

 Dawnbringer wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Boosykes wrote:
Hate to say it but new terminators will be 3 to a box.

Not remotely any chance of this. As much chance as The Old World being 15mm.

How many terminators are in the Custodes box again? Not saying it will be three, but to say there isn't a remote chance is nonsensical.

By that logic Termagants could be 3 to a squad, because they also are entirely different models to a classic Terminator with different squad org, just as any Custodes models are. Terminators have 30+ years of squad size and load out precedent.

 jaredb wrote:
I'm fairly certain it'll be a 5 man box, based on the video alone it had s 5 man squad.

No it didn't.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
I'm fairly certain it'll be a 5 man box, based on the video alone it had s 5 man squad.

No it didn't.

We don't see 5, but its hard to tell how many there actually are. 4 teleport in (3 + the Librarian), but then in the very next scene there's a 4th one with an assault cannon who wasn't there before.

There is a squad of 3 and two characters.

I'd be surprised it the box contents don't match this completely:

1x Terminator Captain
1x Terminator Librarian
1x Gravis Apothecary
1x Phobos Lieutenant w/Combi-Flamer
5x Primaris Veterans (Sergeant w/Combi-Melta, Marine w/Combi-Melta, 2 Marines w/Combi-Flamers, 1 Marine w/Hellstorm Heavy Bolter)
5x Flamey Marines
3x Terminators
1x Shooty Redemptor
(1x Ancient - there is one in the trailer)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There is a squad of 3 and two characters.

I'd be surprised it the box contents don't match this completely:

That could just be a quite elaborately decorated Sergeant rather than a second character.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There is a squad of 3 and two characters.

I'd be surprised it the box contents don't match this completely:

That could just be a quite elaborately decorated Sergeant rather than a second character.

Last time we saw a white shoulder pad with heraldry on an Ultramarine it was on a Terminator Captain.

The stater will be exactly as pictured a 3 man squad and a captain and a librarian.

Later a seperat kit with some options will come out 3 man squad.

To be clear this is my opinion. I just think this is how GW works now you pay way more and get way less.

I feel like it will come down solely to the way they set out the sprues. Even with the size increase, I imagine that fitting four bodies into a single sprue wouldn't be impossible, while the sergeant goes on another sprue along with most of the weapons, with accessories spread across the two. That would allow them to swap the Sergeant sprue out for another Sergeant sprue that had close combat weapons on it. A three-sprue alternative would have two regular terminators to a sprue with all their standard loadout, replicated once in the box, with another sprue again for the sergeant and special weapons. Pure speculation, but the two/three-sprues-to-a-box setup of the current marine releases suggests there will be plenty of sprue space for a full five man squad, depending on whether or not they're willing to keep certain options out, or insist they be included. There are multiple permutations I can think of which would easily fit a five man Terminator squad into even fewer sprues than the current standard Intercessor set comes with, so they'd genuinely have to try hard in order to put out a Terminator squad of 3 to a box. I realise some of you probably think that's exactly what they'd try to do though, so I guess my argument is going to fall on more than a few deaf ears.

Boosykes wrote:
The stater will be exactly as pictured a 3 man squad and a captain and a librarian.

Later a seperat kit with some options will come out 3 man squad.

To be clear this is my opinion. I just think this is how GW works now you pay way more and get way less.

Are terminator units going to go to 3-10 unit size? Custodes are 1-6 unit size, but were only ever sold as 3 packs via the forgeworld and plastic versions. Current sm terminator squads are sold as boxes of 5 in every form- basic, assault, blood angels, deathwing, wolf guard, grey knights, chaos, scarab occult, and blightlord, while tartarus and cataphractii are now doubled up and sold as boxes of 10.


5 Heavy Intercessors fit in one kit just fine, and are similar in size to the new terminators, and TDA doesn't have separate backpacks, pistol holsters, or bits to swap out to change the weapon styles.

It would be really weird for CSM to lose 3 man termies and then SM gets them. I don't know that marines would change their typical units like that in lore, so, I imagine it would still be 5 man.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
It would be really weird for CSM to lose 3 man termies and then SM gets them. I don't know that marines would change their typical units like that in lore, so, I imagine it would still be 5 man.

Not sure what will change or not, but 3/6 man squads have been creeping into space marines for a while now, starting pre-primaris with the even more bigger armor suits... the centurions.

Guilliman fluff-wise have been critical of the space marines in general for treating the Codex Astartes as an immutable solution for 10,000 years rather than something to adapt over time. He'd be the obvious person to change things

Given the range bloat of trying to carry two separate but over-stuffed model lines, its clear something is going to change on the game level. Considering they're just blowing off the distinction between primaris and not-primaris with the new terminators, I'm feeling a bit hopeful for a unit squish where people can use whichever space marine with bolter model they've got on hand to fill out the basic units.