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For the last time, the goblins were metal because Mantic is getting tired of people telling them that their models look terrible *after* they've already spent massive amounts on tooling plastic moulds. :p
For the last time, the goblins were metal because Mantic is getting tired of people telling them that their models look terrible *after* they've already spent massive amounts on tooling plastic moulds. :p
But isn't that what 3D CAD are for?
Any previews, really. Whether it's concept art, greens, renders or metals, the way to avoid this problem is to allow people to find out what the plastics will look like and say what they think could be done better before the point of no return, before you start cutting the moulds.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
Basically, metal models = beta-testing for the plastics.
Thats what they said about their Undead Knights, but then they went with the plastic resin. Goblins might be another faction getting shoved into the plastic resin
Well, I'm sure any reduction of price will always be welcome. Those goblin spearmen (speargoblins? ) are actually lovely little models.
Glad they put that 360 degree shot of the Veer-myn on their blog, they obviously heard some of the comments about how much better the minis look on there!
Basically, metal models = beta-testing for the plastics.
Thats what they said about their Undead Knights, but then they went with the plastic resin. Goblins might be another faction getting shoved into the plastic resin
The undead knights (revenant knights) are an elite choice for the undead army. So restic makes sense. Metal goblins as beta testing for plastics, when spear goblins are a core unit in a horde army, are different from this, but also make sense.
I collect:
Grand alliance death (whole alliance)
Stormcast eternals
Slaves to Darkness - currently Nurgle but may expand to undivided.
scarletsquig wrote:Okay, current word on the backstage pass video on BoW is that it states that the next KoW army will be Angels, Paladins, good humans, that sort of thing.
It's clearly impossible for Mantic to do anything original, so what army is that supposed to represent? Bretonnia?
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
scarletsquig wrote:Okay, current word on the backstage pass video on BoW is that it states that the next KoW army will be Angels, Paladins, good humans, that sort of thing.
It's clearly impossible for Mantic to do anything original, so what army is that supposed to represent? Bretonnia?
show me a GW army that is original . please?
actually make it 2 , why not :')
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/03 07:06:45
No, the Perrys did a line of historical miniatures from the period that GW ripped off to do Empire...
As did FireForge.
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio
Don't worry I think Scarletsquig is being deliberately scurrilous
Those Perry 'War of the Roses' plastics are excellent by the way, would definitely be my first port of call if I was making an Empire or Brettonian army.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:No, the Perrys did a line of historical miniatures from the period that GW ripped off to do Empire...
As did FireForge.
Same difference. The important thing is that Mantic shouldn't make their historical race a pseduo-historical faction. We've got historicals manufacturers for that.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
How about a 28mm Plastic Arabian/Saracen race? They're quite rare.
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio
ArbeitsSchu wrote:How about a 28mm Plastic Arabian/Saracen race? They're quite rare.
That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
Has anyone done any equivalency studies of these sorts of things? For example, is it possible to create an entire Empire army using Perry miniatures plastics or do you have to mix and match? How do the prices stack up if you compare the cost of a GW Empire army to one made from 3rd party manufacturers? I'd be interested in it if the price is right (and the counts-as doesn't bother me; my other WHFB armies are Mantic ones).
One of the good things about the Mantic lines and army deals is the fact you can make an equivalent GW army out of them - the Mantic units are direct counterparts to their GW version (obviously what Mantic intended) but it means you can pay £150 for one of their army mega deals and have a 2000-2500 point army straight out the box.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/03 13:46:09
You could make nearly an entire army from Perry miniatures for Empire out of the two plastic boxes they offer now (Crossbowmen, Handgunners and Pikemen in one, Bows and Halberds in another), and the new Cavalry box they'll be releasing soon.
This only leaves swordsmen and flagellants as your infantry not covered. Swordsmen are easy to do, all you need to use is handweapons and shields on their pikemen. Flagellants might not be so easy.
Artillery can be covered by their miniatures, or lines from other manufacturers. Same for heroes. The only thing which really represents a problem is the Demigryphs and War Altar/Arcane chariot. If you can find a solution to that, you're set.
Buying from other manufacturers is a good idea because often their prices are better, the miniatures are often better scaled and look better, and are the same or better quality than the GW ones. For example, I believe on the Perry site that one 40 infantry box is about $30 odd dollars or so, more or less. Let's see you find a similar price from GW for infantry which is only one type instead of allowing you to make multiple kinds.
Also, buying from other manufacturers supports them and allows them to keep developing and coming up with new plastic kits, and puts pressure on GW to either re-do their kits or lower their prices.
So, in all cases I recommend not buying GW where you can, and supporting alternative manufacturers. Here in Australia we get the short end of the stick on prices, so I have no qualms about giving it right back to them. If you like the miniatures other companies make, buy them. Don't feel you're stuck with one particular manufacturer at all.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:How about a 28mm Plastic Arabian/Saracen race? They're quite rare.
That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
But they will engage the ire of all the people who expect everything Mantic does to be usable in a GW game, whilst not being a copy of anything GW does, if they do something that original.
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
The Corp Rangers look good in the 360 view, shows off their details a lot better. Still need leg and knee armour, just saying.
Would love to see more Project Pandora/Veer-Myn stuff, still on the fence as wherever to buy the game or not as I still know very little about them.
I mean going by the Mantic blog aren't we on the third Project Pandora/Veer-myn teaser week now? and we still don't have much information
about the game or the Veer-Myn army as whole and both are right on top of their release dates, not the best way to drum-up excitement.
Hell it even took Beast of War getting involved to actually see a decent picture of the miniatures, isn't that what Mantics surposed to be doing
right now all over thier blog/Site, like crazy?
Sorry I'm most likely just impatient, but these teaser weeks really haven't been that impressive so far. Mantic really should just try showing the product
in its full glory rather than showing poor quality scrapes and expecting us to pro-order entire armies.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/03 21:03:46
ArbeitsSchu wrote:How about a 28mm Plastic Arabian/Saracen race? They're quite rare.
That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
But they will engage the ire of all the people who expect everything Mantic does to be usable in a GW game, whilst not being a copy of anything GW does, if they do something that original.
Which is why they wont go too out there. Trust me I would love to see some Middle East factions in plastic but no one really touches them besides some persians. I doubt Mantic will ever go outside their comfort zone, and if they do it'll probably end up being a faction made out of plastic resin/metal
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rolt wrote:
Sorry I'm most likely just impatient, but these teaser weeks really haven't been that impressive so far. Mantic really should just try showing the product
in its full glory rather than showing poor quality scrapes and expecting us to pro-order entire armies.
Miniature companies can be really funny. Most dont hire half decent painters or even show their products painted. Some dont even show their product at all (Cough Old Glory cough)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/03 22:14:08
filbert wrote:Has anyone done any equivalency studies of these sorts of things? For example, is it possible to create an entire Empire army using Perry miniatures plastics or do you have to mix and match? How do the prices stack up if you compare the cost of a GW Empire army to one made from 3rd party manufacturers? I'd be interested in it if the price is right (and the counts-as doesn't bother me; my other WHFB armies are Mantic ones).
One of the good things about the Mantic lines and army deals is the fact you can make an equivalent GW army out of them - the Mantic units are direct counterparts to their GW version (obviously what Mantic intended) but it means you can pay £150 for one of their army mega deals and have a 2000-2500 point army straight out the box.
Perry Miniatures: £0.45/model for infantry.
GW: £1.55/model
And yes, you can make most of an army out of them. Also, mantic bases are perfect fits for perry models! Nothing wrong with using a few GW kits here and there, their large plastic monsters and things are very nice models and reasonably priced due to being the only ones on the market that are plastic.
Take the new Empire griffon for example - £33, gigantic model. I have no issues with buying one of those to tower over my Perry infantry. Same goes for the steam tank, the new buffwagons, demigryphs and plastic characters.. they're all "one off" units as opposed to the hundreds of state troops that make up the bulk of the expense for any new army. And I happen to be someone who wants a very very large army indeed (1000+ models) where it would cost me as much as a car to buy the army from GW.
I mean seriously, who here has paid GW £100 to buy a single horde of Empire Greatswords? Be honest now. One 8th-edition competitive unit. One hundred pounds.
I'm about as big a fan of Mantic as you can get, but even I don't see it is "one company or another" thing. I have no idea why people are so bloody tribal on the topic of wargames manufacturers and assume that anyone who likes Mantics models is some sort of frothing anti-GW nutter who stands outside their stores all day screaming obscenities.
Anyway, this is conversation is all off-topic and should be moved to the mantic discussion thread.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/04/03 23:12:07
kenshin620 wrote:
Miniature companies can be really funny. Most dont hire half decent painters or even show their products painted. Some dont even show their product at all (Cough Old Glory cough)
Oh yeah trust me I 100% agree with you on that one, if I was to try and count the amount of miniature companies that have terrible camera angles, bad-quality shots, or no pics at all on my hands
alone, let's just say I'd run out of fingers, toes, pennies, counters and any other form of numical visual aid very quickly.
It just when it comes to Mantic this lack of quality product advertisement just makes less sense to me. When it comes to a lot of smaller companies I kind of accept that their 1-2 man deals with small
budgets and a very limited range of miniatures and many of those miniatures are "not-something's" or generic "x-theme", so you kind of know what you're getting and there's not much in the way of
long-term investment in to their product to worry about either. But when it comes to Mantic it seems like their trying to set themselves up as the next "big game" with tons of large scale armies, vehicles, rulebooks and an ever-growing universe that will continue to evolve over many years to come with new products and expansions and god knows what else, not to mention the sheer cost of all the plastics their doing is pretty risky.
Now don't get me wrong I do understand Mantics still pretty small themselves, but you'd think they would set-up the presentation of their stuff a bit better considering the sheer cost of producing all this on their side and the potential long term investment they will need from fans to keep them going, it just seems reckless to show these products so poorly.
AlexHolker wrote:That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
But they will engage the ire of all the people who expect everything Mantic does to be usable in a GW game, whilst not being a copy of anything GW does, if they do something that original.
"All the people"? You mean me? If anyone else has been making the specific argument that Mantic should start looking at races and units that can be adequately represented by the same rules but fulfil different aesthetic or thematic roles, I haven't seen them.
I think plastic angels would be extremely popular, if only as a source of cheap, human-sized feathered wings for conversions. If they're armoured, I could see them being used for a lot of SoB Seraphim conversions. In WHFB, they might see use as Pegasus Knights and pegasus-mounted characters.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
AlexHolker wrote:
I think plastic angels would be extremely popular, if only as a source of cheap, human-sized feathered wings for conversions. If they're armoured, I could see them being used for a lot of SoB Seraphim conversions. In WHFB, they might see use as Pegasus Knights and pegasus-mounted characters.
Hmm that is the problem though. It boils down to "I think _____ would be extremely popular". Internet speak is...internet speak. People can say "I would love X" but in reality, would people actually buy it? Even internet polls and a faux pre order system might not guarantee anything. And what if the end product isnt what people wanted? (wgf greatcoats) Money and Time can be very unforgiving in miniature making
I certainly didnt see everyone clamoring for Ex Illis' Plastic Angels....(true though I suppose they are somewhat expensive)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/04 00:10:00
AlexHolker wrote:That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
But they will engage the ire of all the people who expect everything Mantic does to be usable in a GW game, whilst not being a copy of anything GW does, if they do something that original.
"All the people"? You mean me? If anyone else has been making the specific argument that Mantic should start looking at races and units that can be adequately represented by the same rules but fulfil different aesthetic or thematic roles, I haven't seen them. .
Its a 67 page thread. Some bugger said it, I'm not going back in to look who. I'm 33. How much longer have I got?
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio
kenshin620 wrote:Hmm that is the problem though. It boils down to "I think _____ would be extremely popular". Internet speak is...internet speak. People can say "I would love X" but in reality, would people actually buy it? Even internet polls and a faux pre order system might not guarantee anything. And what if the end product isnt what people wanted? (wgf greatcoats) Money and Time can be very unforgiving in miniature making
What's the alternative? Unless you're making the exact same models that people have already had ample opportunity to buy from other companies, this is an unavoidable problem. At least my suggestion means making models that add something new to the market yet are more aesthetically compatible with existing armies than, for example, Mantic elves next to GW elves.
I certainly didnt see everyone clamoring for Ex Illis' Plastic Angels....(true though I suppose they are somewhat expensive)
Yeah, somewhat. 18 pounds for 6 isn't any cheaper than buying Scourges from GW at 15 pounds for 5.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
AlexHolker wrote:
I think plastic angels would be extremely popular, if only as a source of cheap, human-sized feathered wings for conversions. If they're armoured, I could see them being used for a lot of SoB Seraphim conversions. In WHFB, they might see use as Pegasus Knights and pegasus-mounted characters.
Hmm that is the problem though. It boils down to "I think _____ would be extremely popular". Internet speak is...internet speak. People can say "I would love X" but in reality, would people actually buy it? Even internet polls and a faux pre order system might not guarantee anything. And what if the end product isnt what people wanted? (wgf greatcoats) Money and Time can be very unforgiving in miniature making
I certainly didnt see everyone clamoring for Ex Illis' Plastic Angels....(true though I suppose they are somewhat expensive)
...
It should also be pointed out that Mantic has a lot more market awareness then Ex Illis does/did (at least, that's my impression, given that I never heard of them till they were out of business).
By the by, does anyone have a suggestion for a "see X page for Y!" for the thread title? I don't really see an obvious page to point people too, but maybe I haven't been paying enough attention.
I've been jazzed about the Corporation miniatures since the first rumours popped up. I was thinking of getting into some harder sci-fi gaming and was excited at the prospect of some plastic 28mm troopers at a good price.
Well, I decided to go with 15mm miniatures (the same scale as Flames of War) as I've been disappointed with pretty much all the 28mm releases over the last while.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
) are actually lovely little models.
