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2018/06/11 18:06:16
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Audustum wrote: Where Radiant Mantle will.shinr is if you're trying to duel Captain Slamguinus's, Thunderstrike Gauntlet Knights and the like (since they'll be forced to -2) or if you're trying to help neutralize re-rolls.
But Superior Creation will help you survive the death grip.
I'm not saying it's always better, I'm just saying it has it's uses if you're anticipating being in certain situations.
Audustum wrote: Where Radiant Mantle will.shinr is if you're trying to duel Captain Slamguinus's, Thunderstrike Gauntlet Knights and the like (since they'll be forced to -2) or if you're trying to help neutralize re-rolls.
Thunderhammer captain hits on 3's. taking it to 4's is less good then ignoring wounds on a 5+.
Against Thunderstrike Gauntlet Knights (hitting on 4's. becoming 5's) its in theory equal. In practice Mantle here purely because 1 hit can't kill a bike captain from full wounds and 2 hits is to many wounds that your not going to save enough anyway.
You're forgetting shutting off re-rolls too. If Captain Slammy has access to re-rolling all hits, the Radiant helps negate a lot of those (same for ANY unwiledly enemy with re-roll access, which was part of my point).
Against Slammy specifically (just calculating 5 attacks) it's 1.73 vs. 1.94 so I guess less good but pretty negligible in all honesty (slightly better if Captain Slammy is the Warlord).
Audustum wrote: Where Radiant Mantle will.shinr is if you're trying to duel Captain Slamguinus's, Thunderstrike Gauntlet Knights and the like (since they'll be forced to -2) or if you're trying to help neutralize re-rolls.
Thunderhammer captain hits on 3's. taking it to 4's is less good then ignoring wounds on a 5+.
Against Thunderstrike Gauntlet Knights (hitting on 4's. becoming 5's) its in theory equal. In practice Mantle here purely because 1 hit can't kill a bike captain from full wounds and 2 hits is to many wounds that your not going to save enough anyway.
Just a heads up, certain knights with a relic hit with the thunderstrike on a 2+. So with the mantle, you make it a 3+. And if he hits, he will spend 1 cp and kill the shield captain.
You don't even need a Relic, actually.
House Mortan Gallants hit on a 2+ anyway.
The best option with Mortan OR a relic is to NOT let it swing at you
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/11 18:10:40
2018/06/11 18:12:43
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Audustum wrote: Where Radiant Mantle will.shinr is if you're trying to duel Captain Slamguinus's, Thunderstrike Gauntlet Knights and the like (since they'll be forced to -2) or if you're trying to help neutralize re-rolls.
Thunderhammer captain hits on 3's. taking it to 4's is less good then ignoring wounds on a 5+.
Against Thunderstrike Gauntlet Knights (hitting on 4's. becoming 5's) its in theory equal. In practice Mantle here purely because 1 hit can't kill a bike captain from full wounds and 2 hits is to many wounds that your not going to save enough anyway.
Just a heads up, certain knights with a relic hit with the thunderstrike on a 2+. So with the mantle, you make it a 3+. And if he hits, he will spend 1 cp and kill the shield captain.
You don't even need a Relic, actually.
House Mortan Gallants hit on a 2+ anyway.
True, but Gallants are kinda bad.
In any case, a lot of ways to deathgrip on a 2+ before radiant mantle, and a shield captain only has a 1/6th chance to escape each deathgrip roll-off.
Rule of thumb is basically: don't charge any custodes character into a knight with a gauntlet if your opponent has 1cp free.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 18:13:47
2018/06/11 18:20:31
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Audustum wrote: Where Radiant Mantle will.shinr is if you're trying to duel Captain Slamguinus's, Thunderstrike Gauntlet Knights and the like (since they'll be forced to -2) or if you're trying to help neutralize re-rolls.
Thunderhammer captain hits on 3's. taking it to 4's is less good then ignoring wounds on a 5+.
Against Thunderstrike Gauntlet Knights (hitting on 4's. becoming 5's) its in theory equal. In practice Mantle here purely because 1 hit can't kill a bike captain from full wounds and 2 hits is to many wounds that your not going to save enough anyway.
Just a heads up, certain knights with a relic hit with the thunderstrike on a 2+. So with the mantle, you make it a 3+. And if he hits, he will spend 1 cp and kill the shield captain.
You don't even need a Relic, actually.
House Mortan Gallants hit on a 2+ anyway.
The best option with Mortan OR a relic is to NOT let it swing at you
Although a quick note-the Relic Fist does 8 damage. So, that gives the following odds of being killed, assuming a 3+ Invuln:
Non-Gallant vs. SC Warlord
55.92% chance of at least one wound
15.85% chance of at least two wounds
Added together, that's a 10.91+15.60=26.51% chance of death
Gallant vs. SC Warlord
73.19% chance of at least one wound
32.82% chance of at least two wounds
Added together, that's 14.28+32.30=46.58% chance of death
Non-Gallant vs. RM Warlord
45.02% chance of death
Gallant vs. RM Warlord
64.08% chance of death
So, if you're up against the Paragon Gauntlet, Superior Creation is the clear better choice.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2018/06/11 19:46:27
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Again, you really shouldn't base your choice of SC or RM on how well you can survive against a paragon gauntlet. Neither will do a great job of saving you. With SC, you're almost guaranteed to die against deathgrip. With RM, you have a slightly less chance of dying against deathgrip, but the first attack might do you in anyway.
2018/06/11 19:50:17
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I don't see lances doing much versus Knights unless they have already taken a good number of wounds TBH.
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
2018/06/11 20:16:39
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Against something with a 2+ (gallant with a paragon gauntlet, Mortan gallant with a thunderstrike, or any Mortan knight with a paragon gauntlet):
SC has a 68.8% chance of surviving deathgrip from full health.
RM has a 66.6% chance of surviving deathgrip from full health.
No relic has a 58% chance of surviving
Against something with a 3+ (Canis Rex, normal knight with paragon gauntlet, mortan knight with thunderstrike gauntlet, or a gallant with a thunderstrike gauntlet):
SC is 75.0% survival rate from full health
RM is 74.9% survival rate from full health
No relic has 66.6% chance of surviving
Against something with a 4+ (normal knight with thunderstrike gauntlet):
SC is 81.3% survival rate
RM is 83.3% survival rate
No relic has a 75.0% chance of surviving
All of the above includes the initial hit roll necessary.
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2018/06/11 21:01:47
2018/06/12 03:26:38
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Against the death grip stratagem, yes. Both are significantly better than not taking a Warlord trait, but between the two there's not much of a difference.
2018/06/13 00:54:09
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Since we're taking chaff detachments anyway, what about an Inquisition one for Dominate? Suddenly the shooting knights become a liability, or at least are forced to use their character-hunter missiles (and CP) on them instead of buffing themselves or snipping our shield captains.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2018/06/14 06:36:45
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The telemon looks awesome, hits on 2+, is elligable for rerolls 1 hit and wounds, -1 to hits, +1 attacks etc. It also helps stay pure custodes, which is nice. At most expensive, its just cheaper than one of the errant/paladin/warden. At cheapest, you will be saving a substantial amount, enough to consider running just for points savings. Obviously also, it would be awesome to teleport one into the opponent's face.
The knight on the other hand does the job better- for only a little more. You can take a errant/paladin/warden for the same ish as a CC dread, and the knight does it better with 6dmg and a big ass extra gun. The gallant is cheaper than a CC dread, and also then does its job better.
So, what do you think? I'm drawn towards the options with the Knights (in form of magnetising etc) with WT and relics, but the telemon looks cool and also does the job as a custodian.
The telemon looks awesome, hits on 2+, is elligable for rerolls 1 hit and wounds, -1 to hits, +1 attacks etc. It also helps stay pure custodes, which is nice. At most expensive, its just cheaper than one of the errant/paladin/warden. At cheapest, you will be saving a substantial amount, enough to consider running just for points savings. Obviously also, it would be awesome to teleport one into the opponent's face.
The knight on the other hand does the job better- for only a little more. You can take a errant/paladin/warden for the same ish as a CC dread, and the knight does it better with 6dmg and a big ass extra gun. The gallant is cheaper than a CC dread, and also then does its job better.
So, what do you think? I'm drawn towards the options with the Knights (in form of magnetising etc) with WT and relics, but the telemon looks cool and also does the job as a custodian.
Yeah that is a good question. If you just need shooty, I'd go Telemon with the autocannons. As well as being pure Custodes/cheaper it integrates better, benefitting from things like a -1 to hit banner etc.
Sounds like you're after choppy though, in which case the Gallant would be a better option I think. The CC dread is just a bit overpriced for what it offers I think, in its current iteration of course. If you can stand to wait a bit longer until the final publication comes out that may change things.
2018/06/15 22:42:05
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The telemon looks awesome, hits on 2+, is elligable for rerolls 1 hit and wounds, -1 to hits, +1 attacks etc. It also helps stay pure custodes, which is nice. At most expensive, its just cheaper than one of the errant/paladin/warden. At cheapest, you will be saving a substantial amount, enough to consider running just for points savings. Obviously also, it would be awesome to teleport one into the opponent's face.
The knight on the other hand does the job better- for only a little more. You can take a errant/paladin/warden for the same ish as a CC dread, and the knight does it better with 6dmg and a big ass extra gun. The gallant is cheaper than a CC dread, and also then does its job better.
So, what do you think? I'm drawn towards the options with the Knights (in form of magnetising etc) with WT and relics, but the telemon looks cool and also does the job as a custodian.
Yeah that is a good question. If you just need shooty, I'd go Telemon with the autocannons. As well as being pure Custodes/cheaper it integrates better, benefitting from things like a -1 to hit banner etc.
Sounds like you're after choppy though, in which case the Gallant would be a better option I think. The CC dread is just a bit overpriced for what it offers I think, in its current iteration of course. If you can stand to wait a bit longer until the final publication comes out that may change things.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm kinda hoping the CC dread gets dropped a little in points, 400 for 5 3dmg attacks isn't that great.
Another question, would it be better to BUY a knight or get a telemon?
The knight gives me lots of options, but the telemon is cool. I am wary however of only d3 dmg on the guns, I never roll well for that.
The telemon is FW, I've never bought or worked with FW resin, I feel safer with the Knights. If I buy Knights I can get two for not much more than a dread with both sets of weapons, (only like £30 more for another knight)
I shouldn't be asking this- I need to focus on AOS and keep getting drawn by cool stuff! Ugh.
Thanks for the reply
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/16 08:32:44
Obviously this doesn't consider any relics/warlord traits the knight may have or any auras the bikes may benefit from. It also doesn't break down say 2 bikes vs a 7-12 wound knight.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/16 02:06:05
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2018/06/16 06:55:27
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Totally silly question here. When the FW index comes out, what do you guys think the chances are that we will be seeing that 30k Beasts unit? I think is was called the Pursuer Cadre?
Would a unit that is cheap-ish, fast moving, and still able to be taken in a Custodes detachment be worthwhile?
2018/06/16 08:30:34
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The telemon looks awesome, hits on 2+, is elligable for rerolls 1 hit and wounds, -1 to hits, +1 attacks etc. It also helps stay pure custodes, which is nice. At most expensive, its just cheaper than one of the errant/paladin/warden. At cheapest, you will be saving a substantial amount, enough to consider running just for points savings. Obviously also, it would be awesome to teleport one into the opponent's face.
The knight on the other hand does the job better- for only a little more. You can take a errant/paladin/warden for the same ish as a CC dread, and the knight does it better with 6dmg and a big ass extra gun. The gallant is cheaper than a CC dread, and also then does its job better.
So, what do you think? I'm drawn towards the options with the Knights (in form of magnetising etc) with WT and relics, but the telemon looks cool and also does the job as a custodian.
Yeah that is a good question. If you just need shooty, I'd go Telemon with the autocannons. As well as being pure Custodes/cheaper it integrates better, benefitting from things like a -1 to hit banner etc.
Sounds like you're after choppy though, in which case the Gallant would be a better option I think. The CC dread is just a bit overpriced for what it offers I think, in its current iteration of course. If you can stand to wait a bit longer until the final publication comes out that may change things.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm kinda hoping the CC dread gets dropped a little in points, 400 for 5 3dmg attacks isn't that great.
Another question, would it be better to BUY a knight or get a telemon?
The knight gives me lots of options, but the telemon is cool. I am wary however of only d3 dmg on the guns, I never roll well for that.
The telemon is FW, I've never bought or worked with FW resin, I feel safer with the Knights. If I buy Knights I can get two for not much more than a dread with both sets of weapons, (only like £30 more for another knight)
I shouldn't be asking this- I need to focus on AOS and keep getting drawn by cool stuff! Ugh.
Thanks for the reply
There is no reason be afraid of building FW stuff. I finished building my Telemon yesterday. Working with resin is not that hard. It may not be as easy as building a plastic kit. But you have way more options for poses. and the FW stuff is really awesome looking when its finished It took me about 3-4 hours including magnetising.
Here are two pics
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/16 10:58:49
2018/06/17 02:50:50
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Got a local 1250 tournament coming up, everything through the IK codex will be allowed. Thinking about giving my golden guys a go, what do ya’ll think of the following list?
Outrider Detachment - 1248pts
2x shield captain on jetbike (one has misericordia to fill points)
1x Vexilla with misericordia
3x 3-man Vertus Praetors, hurricane bolters
Plan is to get both of the captains a 3++, warlord trait will be threat-dependent
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/17 02:52:09
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2018/06/17 17:28:10
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
My teammate:
Punisher tank commander
Shadowsword
Salamander support vehicle
Trojan support vehicle
2x company Commanders
Primaris psyker
We came 25th out of 72 with 2 crushing victories, a draw, a minor defeat and a crushing defeat.
Game 1 (minor defeat):
Vs Tyranids + GSC Not much to report, we got some pretty poor maelstorm and lost by 4 points.
Game 2 (crushing defeat):
Vs Cadian IG Nothing we could do, 4x Basilisks + Pask + LRBT made short work of the Shadowsword and some allied in devastators did mortal wounds to the bikes followed by about 8d6 morters. On our turn we couldn't really do much to their entrenched gunline, next turn we lost the tank commander to a smash captain, the bike Captain to Celestine and all of the IG. By turn 4 we were tabled. That team went on to come second in the tournament (they lost one game because of a slow playing team).
Game 3 (draw):
Vs Orks
An interesting one, they spammed boys and KMKs; we could handle the boys but there were too many kannons to do much about.
Game 4 (crushing victory):
Vs Tau + Eldar
Shadowsword, meet Riptide and 2 wraithlords. Bikes, meet lots of firewarriors. It was a match-up made in heaven, nuff said.
Game 5 (crushing victory):
Vs Nids + GSC They through everything they had into the Custodes with a turn 1 charge from 40 Genestealers but, unfortunately for them, they only killed two bikes. After that it was a slaughter of Genestealers after Genestealers being gunned down or even trampled by the Shadowsword.
Overall, I think we did quite well, just a shame about the second game match up. Definitely recommend Battlefield Birmingham if anyone's in that area.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2018/06/17 21:57:40
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I've got a 1,500pts 16 man tournament on July 7th, with an emphasis on "chilled competitive" as this particular tournament has finally been resurrected after a 10 year hiatus as 8th has brought back a surprising amount of players to my local scene.
So my list for it is as follows. I can't realistically add units to it due to time/money factors and the only spare models I have is 6 custodian guard with spears.
I've played some practice games, and the storm Shields block so much damage its beyond crazy. With the reduction to 1500pts I'm hoping I won't run into too much silliness, but any advice would greatly be received!
40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company
2018/06/17 22:29:25
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The Wardens and Contemptor would stick out to me If I was facing this. They are the only things without a 3++ and are also more ounchy than the rest of your non-character targets, so will be focussed first. Will you be deepstriking these?
If so I would probably recommend Allarus Termies instead since youre going for Relaxed level of competitiveness, but you don't have them, so nevermind.
2018/06/17 22:42:16
Subject: Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
The Wardens and Contemptor would stick out to me If I was facing this. They are the only things without a 3++ and are also more ounchy than the rest of your non-character targets, so will be focussed first. Will you be deepstriking these?
If so I would probably recommend Allarus Termies instead since youre going for Relaxed level of competitiveness, but you don't have them, so nevermind.
The Wardens and Contemptor will be deepstruck - it always catches people out I can do that to a Dread! The mad scramble I see some of my opponents do is beyond silly to stop them once deployed, they are the perfect psychological terror...
40k: Thousand Sons World Eaters
30k: Imperial Fists 405th Company
2018/06/17 23:15:37
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I've got a 1,500pts 16 man tournament on July 7th, with an emphasis on "chilled competitive" as this particular tournament has finally been resurrected after a 10 year hiatus as 8th has brought back a surprising amount of players to my local scene.
So my list for it is as follows. I can't realistically add units to it due to time/money factors and the only spare models I have is 6 custodian guard with spears.
I've played some practice games, and the storm Shields block so much damage its beyond crazy. With the reduction to 1500pts I'm hoping I won't run into too much silliness, but any advice would greatly be received!
You REALLY need to make more of those dudes with Spears. From my proxying, 3 Spears to 1 Shield is a good ratio. You lose way too much damage potential with the Swords.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/06/18 00:31:10
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I've got a 1,500pts 16 man tournament on July 7th, with an emphasis on "chilled competitive" as this particular tournament has finally been resurrected after a 10 year hiatus as 8th has brought back a surprising amount of players to my local scene.
So my list for it is as follows. I can't realistically add units to it due to time/money factors and the only spare models I have is 6 custodian guard with spears.
I've played some practice games, and the storm Shields block so much damage its beyond crazy. With the reduction to 1500pts I'm hoping I won't run into too much silliness, but any advice would greatly be received!
You REALLY need to make more of those dudes with Spears. From my proxying, 3 Spears to 1 Shield is a good ratio. You lose way too much damage potential with the Swords.
Really depends what he's up against. Lots of Space Marines? Won't matter in close combat. Lots of close combat armies? Lost shooting isn't a huge deal (pistols might even be better).
If you have no clue what you're fighting than probably best to do 2 spear / 1 sword. I don't get everyone adding fourth and fifth Guardians to these units. They're a tax: don't take more than you have to.
2018/06/18 00:40:46
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
I've got a 1,500pts 16 man tournament on July 7th, with an emphasis on "chilled competitive" as this particular tournament has finally been resurrected after a 10 year hiatus as 8th has brought back a surprising amount of players to my local scene.
So my list for it is as follows. I can't realistically add units to it due to time/money factors and the only spare models I have is 6 custodian guard with spears.
I've played some practice games, and the storm Shields block so much damage its beyond crazy. With the reduction to 1500pts I'm hoping I won't run into too much silliness, but any advice would greatly be received!
You REALLY need to make more of those dudes with Spears. From my proxying, 3 Spears to 1 Shield is a good ratio. You lose way too much damage potential with the Swords.
Really depends what he's up against. Lots of Space Marines? Won't matter in close combat. Lots of close combat armies? Lost shooting isn't a huge deal (pistols might even be better).
If you have no clue what you're fighting than probably best to do 2 spear / 1 sword. I don't get everyone adding fourth and fifth Guardians to these units. They're a tax: don't take more than you have to.
It matters for multi-wound models and T3. Spears are a better all-comer and you only ever need the one meat shield. Plus units with Spears get a better Strategem.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/06/18 01:02:59
Subject: Re:Codex Adeptus Custodes: By His will alone
Thousand Sons 
World Eaters
Imperial Fists 405th Company 
