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Quick someone show me a 2nd Amendment Left Winger!

(Can't say progun as I can think of several if the Left will calim them-Black Panther, New Black Panther parties being examples).


EDIT: Inversely hard to think of an ant-2nd Amendment Right Winger-does Guiliani count as a right winger?

Frazzled wrote:Quick someone show me a 2nd Amendment Left Winger!

(Can't say progun as I can think of several if the Left will calim them-Black Panther, New Black Panther parties being examples).

While there are pro-gun Democrats, it was more the manly men of conservatism, womenly men of liberalism that I was scoffing at.

Its an old line that has little to do with any sensible understanding of men, liberalism or conservatism.

wally world has good prices on SOME ammo.

9mm is good. 10 - 11 bucks for 50 rounds.

but 7.62 x .39 is insane. its 17 bucks for a box of 20 rounds. that isent even a full mag. granted its remmington and nice reloadable brass.

but for people like me who dont have the stuff to reload... good old wolf ammo, 4-5 bucks for a box of 20. stupid carosive primer though, got to clean that thing real good after your done shooting.

BTW, anyone know of a good place to pick up reloading equipment?? i mainly shoot 7.62 x .39 and 9MM.

Equipment or supplies?

Yes.

http://www.mastercast.net/index.html

Check this board:
http://www.reloadbench.com/main.html

http://www.reloadbench.com/gloss/guide.html

Frazzled wrote:Quick someone show me a 2nd Amendment Left Winger!

(Can't say progun as I can think of several if the Left will calim them-Black Panther, New Black Panther parties being examples).


EDIT: Inversely hard to think of an ant-2nd Amendment Right Winger-does Guiliani count as a right winger?

There are indeed both Democrats, "liberals", and Left wingers who are pro 2nd. I imagine that there are more people who are gun owners who self identify as conservatives, if for no other reason than that one issue. I would think that it would be hard to quantify as someone's political opinion at any given time can't be measured exactly with numbers and data. It isn't as simple as counting up registered Republicans or Dems who are NRA members, for instance. Opinions differ amongst individual parties, and other people may not have the same opinion as you as to what constitutes "left wing".

I think the polar nature of politics and the fact that people make assumptions on someone's entire worldview based on a few stated beliefs or positions to be one of the most baleful and divisive aspects of politics in this country. I think it is unrealistic and unkind to apply group labels to individuals.

Why can't someone be pro-choice, for instance, and still expect to be able to own weapons? I don't see any relationship between those viewpoints whatsoever. It is completely unfair to assume that someone is "conservative" because they own or want to own a firearm.

Now that I think about it this is interesting-someone show me a well known left winger who's a 2nd amendment supporter.

On the flip side show me a well known right winger who's pro choice.

I initially thought "ah thats easy," but on further reflection, I can't think of an example. I can't really think of an example of a hard right pro choice right winger, nor can I think of a pro-life left candidate. There really is something to this. I'd proffer the 2nd Amendment is similar.

Frazzled wrote:Now that I think about it this is interesting-someone show me a well known left winger who's a 2nd amendment supporter.

On the flip side show me a well known right winger who's pro choice.

Do you live life in little boxes?

Frazzled wrote:Now that I think about it this is interesting-someone show me a well known left winger who's a 2nd amendment supporter.

On the flip side show me a well known right winger who's pro choice.

It isn't the people who are well known in this country who are *really* important, it is us.

Best I can come up with for the first one is Hunter S. Thompson. Not sure that really counts though.

Don't know on the other one, I don't keep up with abortion politics.

Ahtman wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now that I think about it this is interesting-someone show me a well known left winger who's a 2nd amendment supporter.

On the flip side show me a well known right winger who's pro choice.

Do you live life in little boxes?

I think the real problem is the little box in people's living room. I don't own a TV.

Now that I think about it this is interesting-someone show me a well known left winger who's a 2nd amendment supporter.

I'm pretty sure Joe Biden is on record as owning multiple guns and being a strong supporter of the second amendment. But hey, you probably haven't heard of him before.

I think the real problem is the little box in people's living room.

You become ignorant because of what you consume. Not how you consume it.

Well..... Heston used to be fairly Liberal at one time.

From memory I think one, if not both, of the South Park guys are gun owners.

Oh.... Michael Moore is in the NRA still right ?

SEnator Arlen Specter is liberal with regards to abortion, gay marriage etc but pretty strong on gun ownership etc

Ahtman wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now that I think about it this is interesting-someone show me a well known left winger who's a 2nd amendment supporter.

On the flip side show me a well known right winger who's pro choice.

Do you live life in little boxes?

How flippant. Do you?

reds8n wrote:Well..... Heston used to be fairly Liberal at one time.

From memory I think one, if not both, of the South Park guys are gun owners.

Oh.... Michael Moore is in the NRA still right ?

SEnator Arlen Specter is liberal with regards to abortion, gay marriage etc but pretty strong on gun ownership etc

Thanks Reds8n. Thats helpful.

Frazzled wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now that I think about it this is interesting-someone show me a well known left winger who's a 2nd amendment supporter.

On the flip side show me a well known right winger who's pro choice.

Do you live life in little boxes?

How flippant. Do you?

Why thank you. And yes, we all do to different degrees. We seek to categorize and label and bring sense. Of course life isn't that simple or boring. It would be easy if someone liked guns to be able to throw them into the Conservative box and not have to worry about it. Now you have an artificial taxonomy and it makes things easier (on the surface). Of course it is only that simple when you are running for office in a two party system, but even then not always. The problem is that even within parties the individuals don't agree on the degrees to which different policy should be implemented. For example two Republicans can work on firearm legislation and one Republican will want grenade launchers banned but the other will believe that it is unconstitutional. Now they are both pro-gun but they differ on the degrees. Taking a complex and nuanced issue like gun controller and boiling it down to just simply "For" or "Against" is for politicians to do when they want your vote. We aren't running for office so we can afford a little more room for the realities and subtleties of life.

Ahtman wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Now that I think about it this is interesting-someone show me a well known left winger who's a 2nd amendment supporter.

On the flip side show me a well known right winger who's pro choice.

Do you live life in little boxes?

How flippant. Do you?

Why thank you. And yes, we all do to different degrees. We seek to categorize and label and bring sense. Of course life isn't that simple or boring. It would be easy if someone liked guns to be able to throw them into the Conservative box and not have to worry about it. Now you have an artificial taxonomy and it makes things easier (on the surface). Of course it is only that simple when you are running for office in a two party system, but even then not always. The problem is that even within parties the individuals don't agree on the degrees to which different policy should be implemented. For example two Republicans can work on firearm legislation and one Republican will want grenade launchers banned but the other will believe that it is unconstitutional. Now they are both pro-gun but they differ on the degrees. Taking a complex and nuanced issue like gun controller and boiling it down to just simply "For" or "Against" is for politicians to do when they want your vote. We aren't running for office so we can afford a little more room for the realities and subtleties of life.

You and your cogent nuanced reply...thats just not conducive to intranets chest beating

Agreed. I would posit though that its a strong indicator of where a politician/fanatic might lie on other topics, as nuance is not their strong suit. Politicians/Huffington.com/Limbaughisasofty.com will generally be in line. Aka most Huffington supporters are going to be rabidly proabortion and progun control to the point of confiscation, whereas Townhall.com supporters will think the only appropriate gun control is limitng the access to tacical nukes. The US lies in between and can have differing opinions.

one of the things that really bother me about the gun control issue, are the celebrities who say one thing, and do another... Take Rosie O'donnell, she has come out on numerous occasions saying that guns have no place in america, and they should be outright banned. She normally is alot more long-winded then that, but we dont have that kind of space... At any rate, she comes out saying these things, but then turns around and has her child's BODYGUARD carry around a loaded pistol, into the kid's school!

Honestly, if you're going to preach anti-gun sentiments (or preach anything, for that matter) you should be among the first living by what you preach. Not the "do as I say, not as I do" policies of many of these bleeding-heart special interest supporting celebs.

AAAAaaaaaaannnnnnd bleeding heart celebrities are brought into the gun debate.


If only some sort of sage wisdom had been lain down in the very first reply about the inevitable direction of this thread!

Ensis Ferrae wrote:one of the things that really bother me about the gun control issue, are the celebrities who say one thing, and do another... Take Rosie O'donnell, she has come out on numerous occasions saying that guns have no place in america, and they should be outright banned. She normally is alot more long-winded then that, but we dont have that kind of space... At any rate, she comes out saying these things, but then turns around and has her child's BODYGUARD carry around a loaded pistol, into the kid's school!

Honestly, if you're going to preach anti-gun sentiments (or preach anything, for that matter) you should be among the first living by what you preach. Not the "do as I say, not as I do" policies of many of these bleeding-heart special interest supporting celebs.

Can we all just say that Rosie O'Donnell bothers all of us in all sorts of ways and leave it at that.

In fact, is that something we can all agree on... no-one likes Rosie O'Donnell?

ShumaGorath wrote:I'm pretty sure Joe Biden is on record as owning multiple guns and being a strong supporter of the second amendment. But hey, you probably haven't heard of him before.

O yes.... he’s the one that said he would shoot lord obama if he came after his guns right?? Something to the extent of "he’s not gonna take my shotgun, if he dose, ill show him my .45"

Ya right. We shall see how pro 2nd THIS government will be. A rat supermajority and you think that there will NOT be any anti constructional efforts???

My views:

I'm what would be considered fairly centrist in Europe, but a raving liberal moonbat here in the US of A.

I think guns are an inherently dangerous thing and feel that they should be strictly monitored. However, I also believe that here in the States, the Constitution should trump personal feelings and as the 2nd Amendment specifically invokes the "Right to bear arms," then I feel the government should stay the hell out of impeding the citizenry's access to arms of all kinds.

Would you point a gun at ya opponent if ya suspect he is cheating? Like on "Big Lebowski"?

Guns have the ability to send a bullet flying out.

A hammer has the ability to crush someone’s skull.

Both are dangerous in the wrong hands.

If you look into it, the weapon of choice amongst the Nob biker gang know as the "Hells Angels" is a ball peen hammer. Why??? Because it is perfectly legal for ANYONE to carry it. If your a convicted felon you can’t carry a gun (well, you can. but if your caught with it your neck deep in ork sh ) but you can carry a hammer.

Yes, some of them carry guns and knives. But most often it is stuff like hammers, crowbars, ect ect.

History channel FTW ^^^^

edited by moderati to avoid flamewar

Envy89 wrote:
Ya right. We shall see how pro 2nd THIS government will be. A rat supermajority and you think that there will NOT be any anti constructional efforts???

No, I don't. Why would there be? There are bigger problems than people who feel the need to make statements about their independence through firearms.

Envy89 wrote:Guns have the ability to send a bullet flying out.

A hammer has the ability to crush someone’s skull.

Both are dangerous in the wrong hands.

Yep. But a hammer is considerably less dangerous as it takes more effort on the part of the owner to use it.

To take this another route. Would you say that you had the right to bear arms if we let you throw rocks? No? Then rocks and guns aren't comparable, and neither are hammer and guns.

Envy89 wrote:
If you look into it, the weapon of choice amongst the Nob biker gang know as the "Hells Angels" is a ball peen hammer. Why??? Because it is perfectly legal for ANYONE to carry it. If your a convicted felon you can’t carry a gun (well, you can. but if your caught with it your neck deep in ork sh ) but you can carry a hammer.

Yes, and now trigger pull = hammer blow in terms of effort, and ease? Dude...come on...

Envy89 wrote:
Yes, some of them carry guns and knives. But most often it is stuff like hammers, crowbars, ect ect.

History channel FTW ^^^^

Books and logic for the conquest.

Any pussy can pull a trigger, hence making killing easier. Hence why it's probably not a good idea.

Ghetto_Fight wrote:Any pussy can pull a trigger, hence making killing easier. Hence why it's probably not a good idea.

to be the aforementioned female genitalia?

Stabbing isn't that hard either, just push. Slicing and bludgeoning follow along the same lines. It is just messier. Being able to move your finger or your arm have little to do with being a vagina or an idiot. Context is what will determine that.

Speaking of dicing has anyone else but me seen ratboy shamwow towel guy now peddling some sort of dicer? The guy just screams sleeze. Strangely enough they had two stalls peddling that shamwow thing at gun show last weekend.