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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but to me that is the beauty of things like 40k: to get the silly aggression out of our systems in a safe way.

Also, I think there is a definite US/euro divide on the issue of gun ownership/culture/law. After all the constitution gives US citizens the right to bear arms (yes?). No european can really understand what this means. It's a very definite cultural divide (as I see it).

I would agree with Grignard.

In the time it takes for a bear to close the short distance charging, aiming and hitting a vital spot is not likely.

It's literally a Guardsman trying to Death or Glory a Tank...

troy_tempest wrote:Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but to me that is the beauty of things like 40k: to get the silly aggression out of our systems in a safe way.

Also, I think there is a definite US/euro divide on the issue of gun ownership/culture/law. After all the constitution gives US citizens the right to bear arms (yes?). No european can really understand what this means. It's a very definite cultural divide (as I see it).

I'm not sure I completely agree with that. I need to look it up again, but even the UK, which is known for having restrictive firearms laws, has a line in their laws that refers to law abiding citizens bearing hunting arms ( Again, I can't quote it, but I remember I did look it up at one time. It is no where near as permissive as our constitution though). For that matter many European countries have less restrictive firearms laws than the most restrictive U.S. states. Switzerland comes immediately to mind, but of course they have firearms training as a requirement for citizenship. Finland apparently has alot of firearms enthusiasts ( Incidentally I was reading they have a low level of firearms violence relative to the US). France allows private ownership of handguns, though apparently they restrict certain calibers in automatic firearms. Germany is fairly restrictive but shooting enthusiasts in Germany are generally very enthusiastic. The Germans are known for their firearms....heard of H&K?

and Sig Sauer SIG SAWYA!!! (sorry love the name), and Glock, and Steyr, and Walther. My they are bloody little bunch aren't they...

JohnHwangDD wrote:I would agree with Grignard.

In the time it takes for a bear to close the short distance charging, aiming and hitting a vital spot is not likely.

It's literally a Guardsman trying to Death or Glory a Tank...

Also the fact that most human beings today just aren't prepared for that, viscerally. 10000 years or so ago we would be, but not now.

Perhaps you're right about the minituae of the laws themselves, however my point is that the culture is different. Particularly on my little island, we just don't 'do' guns. There isn't the same desire, like others have mentioned about hunting. Trappings of the upper classes maybe, but your average 'Bernard'? (pronounced BERnard not bernARD) I don't think so.

Well maybe London and Wolverhampton might be the exceptions... but those are illegal guns owned by kids.

troy_tempest wrote:Perhaps you're right about the minituae of the laws themselves, however my point is that the culture is different. Particularly on my little island, we just don't 'do' guns. There isn't the same desire, like others have mentioned about hunting. Trappings of the upper classes maybe, but your average 'Bernard'? (pronounced BERnard not bernARD) I don't think so.

Well maybe London and Wolverhampton might be the exceptions... but those are illegal guns owned by kids.

Illegal guns?

I'll agree with you about culture though. I understand that hunting is traditionally viewed as a "upper class" pursuit. With the exception of bird hunting, that isn't the case here in the US. In fact, hunting, particularly big game, tends to have a populist bent here.

I've always wanted to tag along on an English fox hunt, though I don't really have any desire to kill a fox.

It's funny you mention that, the fox hunt has always interested me too. I have no problems with foxes either, it's more a curiosity and the fact it is such an 'event'. Of course now that fox hunting is banned in England they just pop across to Wales to do it there! Another example of a pointless law.

I am, of course, aware that a gun itself cannot be illegal. I was referring to gun ownership. But I think you know that.

But yes-exactly. 'A populist bent' - I couldn't have put it better. You have summed the cultural divide up in one phrase. Well done!

I have enjoyed this conversation. I mean, apart from the silly pedant part. But it's like the chap from Australia said at the start, no-one changes their mind about this sort of thing. It tends to be quite black and white.

troy_tempest wrote:Of course now that fox hunting is banned in England they just pop across to Wales to do it there! Another example of a pointless law.

wth are you on about?

I should have made it clear that people go foxhunting in Wales because its isolated and the chances of detection are smaller, rather than the laws in Wales being different. I'm assuming that's your gripe WW?

Foxhunting is of course illegal in England and Wales, and has been since 2004.

Well yeh, that is my "gripe." The law covers both england and wales and scotland have held a law against it even longer. And even if there is this "more isolated" rubbish you've conjured up how does that make it a pointless law?

'More isolated rubbish' Um.. have you ever been to Wales? I was there last year, deepest darkest Wales. Its where they go to do foxhunting to make sure they don't get caught. Please don't tell me I'm talking rubbish: a very dignified, respectable older gentleman told me this, and I believe him because of his excellent character, because he lives in rural Wales, and because it makes intuitive sense.

Its pointless in the sense that it can't be enforced effectively. If everyone breaks the law, what was the point in making the law in the first place?

If you think foxhhunts have stopped then I'm afraid you are either naive or not in full possession of the facts.

Right because it used to take place in city parks of course for everyone to see.

No I don't believe fox hunting has stopped, did I say that, no i didn't. And secondly "everyone" is not breaking the law, your views on how well enforced it is are severely underestimated. Plus just because a law is under-enforced it does not make it pointless, it makes it under-enforced.

It is pointless, absolutely. As upper-class (or any class, really) vices go, foxhunting is harmless (well, apart from the fox!). Perhaps you would respond by telling me how inhumane and brutal it is? Well, have a look at how they keep chickens before they end up on your plate. If you object to foxhunting are you also protesting against standard farming practice? The only difference is that the majority of the population eats chicken. So people who like foxhunting are being treated differently because they are in the minority. Is this fair?

I think this is turning into another black and white conversation. I came on here and had a perfectly civilised conversation with the American posters on gun laws and culture, which is a far more serious topic.

I have no idea why this seems to have elicited such a strong response. Hope we can agree to disagree and talk about 40k at some point in the future.

troy_tempest wrote:It is pointless, absolutely. As upper-class (or any class, really) vices go, foxhunting is harmless (well, apart from the fox!). Perhaps you would respond by telling me how inhumane and brutal it is? Well, have a look at how they keep chickens before they end up on your plate. If you object to foxhunting are you also protesting against standard farming practice? The only difference is that the majority of the population eats chicken. So people who like foxhunting are being treated differently because they are in the minority. Is this fair?

I think this is turning into another black and white conversation. I came on here and had a perfectly civilised conversation with the American posters on gun laws and culture, which is a far more serious topic.

I have no idea why this seems to have elicited such a strong response. Hope we can agree to disagree and talk about 40k at some point in the future.

I have several family members who are farmers in cumbria and northumbria area and I their views on the issue are well known to me, them being that you don't have to run around on a horse screaming "jolly good show chaps we're scaring the **** out of the little blighter" to kill a fox.

As for your last point yes I agree to disagree and look forward to doing so.

Its pointless in the sense that it can't be enforced effectively.

People still do crack beyond the peering eyes of law enforcement. The enforceability of a law doesn't really equate to whether or not it should exist. Litter laws are just one example of realistically unenforceable laws that exist to shape the culture rather than enforce the code.

Looks like WhatWhat the troll is back..

Couldnt resist the urge to flood this topic with more gibberish?

Troy:
Dont worry, you were doing just fine with the discussion before WhatWhatinDabutt came back from Trollville. If you go back a few pages you can get a good laugh at his posts/view.

Troy, I find the whole tradition behind the foxhunt rather interesting. I would have loved to try it sometime, too bad its "gone."
Also please feel free to keep posting. Your opinion isnt lame and you have a few good points!

jp400 wrote:Looks like WhatWhat the troll is back..

Couldnt resist the urge to flood this topic with more gibberish?

yeh i suppose everyone else was making a good enough job of it on their own without me. please carry on...

jp400 wrote:Troy:
Dont worry, you were doing just fine with the discussion before WhatWhatinDabutt came back from Trollville. If you go back a few pages you can get a good laugh at his posts/view.

right yeh, "have a good laugh." Of course that what your doing there isn't trolling at all is it?

whatwhat wrote:

jp400 wrote:Looks like WhatWhat the troll is back..

Couldnt resist the urge to flood this topic with more gibberish?

yeh i suppose everyone else was making a good enough job of it on their own without me. please carry on...

We shall..
Thanks for stopping by, dont forget your RedCoat! Drive Safe!

grow up + try and find a new trigger word other than troll for people whos arguments you disagree with. it's getting old.

Hmm,
Stop being a troll and actually contribute to the topic on hand and maybe........just maybe...... you wont have the word TROLL following you around.

Lets see...
You brought the topic into a sludge match..... then left. The topic recovered and we made headway. You returned and already you have arguments with 2/3 people already.

Troll.

You can have a disagreement and discuss points. You however just argue because you like to get a reaction. Thats a Troll in my book.

I had a perfectly valid point to make in both cases. Get real.

Oh I did "Get Real" and you know what? You THINK you had a point, but you didnt. Unless that point was just to be the devils advocate.
At any rate, im done talkin to you troll. This topic has been de-railed enough by your trolling.

To The Forum:
DONT FEED THE TROLL!

Lets move past this block of lead and get back on topic.

Of course it isn't a point if you disagree with it. Of course bringing me up on all of this when I have already agreed to disagree with troy isn't turning the thread into a "sludge match."

Back on Topic:
Has anyone heard any more about allowing CCW on College Grounds?

I read an article that some college in arizona was going to allow CCW, but I hav'nt seen anything else.

Yeah,
I heard the same thing from some local colleges awile back too.

jp400 - I fail to see how whatwhat was trolling. He made a comment about a tangential topic that troy_tempest brought up, it ran its course, and that was the end of it.

By labeling him a troll when he wasn't trying to draw people out is, in and of itself, trolling. You have been far more disruptive to this thread than whatwhat. Just because you disagree with what he says doesn't mean that you can label him however you feel.

Please stop.

Iorek wrote:jp400 - I fail to see how whatwhat was trolling. He made a comment about a tangential topic that troy_tempest brought up, it ran its course, and that was the end of it.

By labeling him a troll when he wasn't trying to draw people out is, in and of itself, trolling. You have been far more disruptive to this thread than whatwhat. Just because you disagree with what he says doesn't mean that you can label him however you feel.

Please stop.

I don't know if I'd say troll, but he's not very clear and many times his responses aren't terribly apropos. Like I said earlier, I'm not sure if it is trolling or miscommunication.

Grignard wrote:

Iorek wrote:jp400 - I fail to see how whatwhat was trolling. He made a comment about a tangential topic that troy_tempest brought up, it ran its course, and that was the end of it.

By labeling him a troll when he wasn't trying to draw people out is, in and of itself, trolling. You have been far more disruptive to this thread than whatwhat. Just because you disagree with what he says doesn't mean that you can label him however you feel.

Please stop.

I don't know if I'd say troll, but he's not very clear and many times his responses aren't terribly apropos. Like I said earlier, I'm not sure if it is trolling or miscommunication.

I agree..
Only I did call him a troll for it. I doubt its miscommunication on his or our part. Yes people here were haveing heated discussions about said topic, but nobody I felt had crossed the line except for WhatWhat.

Oh well...
Just my 2cents worth.
Its been dropped and moved on for the 2nd time.