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KhorneOnTheCob wrote:Rules that i think need to be added/improved:[/b] (just a few)...
+Zerkers need higher str to differentiate them from marines with IoK.

Marines with IoK get +1 A.
Zerkers have that + Furious Charge, Fearless, etc.

They are different enough.

They really just had to update the last book. From the last book;

Liked- the god centric lists towards the back (had one for all the orig legions)
liked - if you marked a unit you had access to that war gear i.e Terms with blast master for slaanesh
liked - you could buy the upgrades for your possessed, according to your style of play or mark
liked - you can upgrade your Lord with possessions or gifts
liked - deamons and greater deamons of the god you wanted

Disliked- the chosen entry, they diffenently need to clear that up
disliked - the raptors in last edition
disliked - the summoning rules

Still could use
Drop pods
Razor Back type of transport
Atk bikes or equal to
Lord on bike or jump pack/wings = bikes and raptors as troops

cptjoeyg wrote:
Still could use
Drop pods
Razor Back type of transport
Atk bikes or equal to
Lord on bike or jump pack/wings = bikes and raptors as troops

You know if you like that stuff there is army that has all of it; what was it....wait let me think.... Dang! I can't remember. Anyway you should just play that army.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

cptjoeyg wrote:
Still could use
Drop pods
Razor Back type of transport
Atk bikes or equal to
Lord on bike or jump pack/wings = bikes and raptors as troops

You know if you like that stuff there is army that has all of it; what was it....wait let me think.... Dang! I can't remember. Anyway you should just play that army.

just because I presented a valid point in a jerk sort of way doesn't make me a troll does it....?

But seriously chaos is chaos and marines is marines. If I said that marines should get "something like daemons" in a thread about what the next marine codex should have I would expect to be labeled a troll (again) for the sheer ridiculousness of it.

Not proposing rules in a proposed rules forum and, in fact, doing the opposite of proposing rules in a proposed rules forum - that would make you a troll.

**EDIT**
H.B.M.C. ninja chopped my reply.

What he said

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:just because I presented a valid point in a jerk sort of way doesn't make me a troll does it....?

But seriously chaos is chaos and marines is marines. If I said that marines should get "something like daemons" in a thread about what the next marine codex should have I would expect to be labeled a troll (again) for the sheer ridiculousness of it.

HEY_FAILTROLL

What I'm confused about, (and have been ever since i played Iron Warriors) is why is every marine with the mark of Tenzeech(spelling?) a thousand son?

if i wanted to represent a chaos force that has chosen to pledge themselves to the Lord of Change, why do i have to field one named legion with a preset background?

(Also in regards to Traitor guard, it wasn't just Alpha legion who used them, Iron Warriors have been known to use them too)

Farmer wrote:
HEY_FAILTROLL

what?

D'oh!

You know if you like that stuff there is army that has all of it; what was it....wait let me think.... Dang! I can't remember. Anyway you should just play that army.

Wow Wraithlordmechanic! that's pretty good, you got me there.

My post was based off of equipment that the Traitor Legions had during the HH, and would make sense to have them in the list. Now if they don't that is fine.

Which is why it is PROPOSED RULES.

I want to see Codex: Mother Fethers, as opposed to Codex: Naughty Marines.

I want this to be like comparing Ivan Milat to some fourteen year old Somking on a street corner.

I want Cult HQs/Termies/Fast Attack/Daemons/Heavy Support.

I want fearless termies with FnP so they don't run away when my basic troops don't.
I want fearless termies with Sonic Weaponry.
I want fearless termies with Furious Charge.
I want fearless termies with Inferno Bolts.
I want Predators and Land Raiders with Sonic weaponry/Inferno Bolts.
I want Cultists and Infiltrating Marines.
I want Jump Pack armies.
I want more Heavy/less fast attack and Bassilisks
I want Dark Apostles.
I want Daemons.

I want FLAVOUR!

Jimi Nemesis wrote:
I want FLAVOUR!

Sorry couldn't resist!

But I agree with everything else. A Pred with H.Bolters and Inferno Bolts would be awesome!

I'd personally like to see more fast attack variaty. I personally think Raptor Berzerkers would be epic. Oh, and drop pods, damnit. Don't discribe a legion that excessivly uses drop pods (Pg. 24 of the CSM codex, Steel Brethren) if you aren't going to give us drop pods!

I would want a book that allows a player to field Undivided, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh armies that are all competitive instead of the cookie cutter Lash Prince/Plague Marine/Obliterator armies we have now. I want good options for units that make them worth taking instead of virtually useless units like Possessed. In other words, for example, I want options for Terminators that make them worth taking as well as different and good options for Possessed that make them compete with other Elite choices, making you actually have to think about which units to take.

I really liked in the old codex how if your CL had say the mark of khorne than you could only take CU or KF in troops choice and units wiht other marks took up there Force org slot plus an elites choice (not sure whether the unit just became an elites choice or took up an elites choice as well)

Edit: btw at my store a lot of people say chaos is over powered and and underprice ( some even say marines should have gotten more). they tell me the chaos is just ridiculous....... And when i complain about my warrior who's been alive for 10k years not learning anything at all they say that time passes differently in the warp so those 10k years probably went by in 3 days................. its such BS..................oh and we use to have 6 chaos players at our store now we have 1.......4 quit warhammer when the new codex got out (alpha legion player, iron warrior player, word bearers player, and emperors children player) leaving me and a chaos undivided player. my army is currently shelved. I'm sick of people complaining how chaos is over powered (not you guys)... and i think i speak for all of us when i say we dont want to be broken we just want a return to fluff cause frankly this codex sucks (its competitieve) but sucks

PS- Why do our space marines cost the same(if you don't upgrade them with icon) as a normal space marine but we dont have they shall know no fear (and we shouldn't), ability to split squads, free weapons, and chapter tactics? p

I would like it for Marked Units to have Hatred towards units that are devoted to their archenemy god.

So sure, you can field a Tactical Marine squad with the Mark of Khorne and a tactical Marine squad with the Mark of Slaanesh-too bad that they're going to spend the battle killing eachother rather than killing the enemy!

At this point I'm not too keen on having the Mark of Khorne give +1A, to me it's just stupid and doesn't really make much sense when he's all about warfare, not just close combat.

He used to grant Chaos Armor and stuff, that went away with 3rd, right? Not sure as I didn't play during that time.


I also think that Marked Units should have to be their god's number in unit sizes. So a unit with the Mark of Slaanesh would have 6 guys, a unit with the Mark of Tzeentch would have 9 guys, etc.

Of course, they would receive some pretty good bonuses, especially Slaanesh with the low unit sizes. Probably +1 LD to the squad and Stubborn?

Nurgle is really tough so it's not as big of a deal.

Khorne is 8, which is pretty good sized. Again, not a big deal.

Bringing back Beastmen would be cool.

More random stuff! But cool random stuff. Like random mutations and things like that. Maybe that's just me as I play casually.

I like the idea of anomosity between sqauds with different devotional marks,however It could perhaps be best represented by only alowing mixed marks in an army lead by Chaos undivided HQs.
Add to this perhaps a limit on marked units per army,as well as possiable "anomosity test" if units are with in 12" of each other and not already engaged in shooting/CC an enemy unit.

FITZZ wrote: I like the idea of anomosity between sqauds with different devotional marks,however It could perhaps be best represented by only alowing mixed marks in an army lead by Chaos undivided HQs.
Add to this perhaps a limit on marked units per army,as well as possiable "anomosity test" if units are with in 12" of each other and not already engaged in shooting/CC an enemy unit.

I don't think that anyone should be penalized for using a Mark. Anyone should be able to use a Mark of Khorne unit with a Mark of Slaanesh unit. It will just come with a very big downside.

Chaos Undivided HQ's should be able to summon Daemons of any mark, and units with a Mark should be moved to an Elites slot.

Again nobody should be penalized for using marks, as long as one has points he or she should be able use as many marked units as he or she wants.

I don't like the animosity for units that have the same mark of another unit.

I could see Animosity working like this:

"Chaos gods are jealous gods. Not only that, but rivalry is common between them and each has an enemy god that represents everything they hate. Khorne hates Slaanesh and vice versa, Tzeentch hates Nurgle and vice versa. To represent this, each marked unit has Preferred Enemy against units with their god's archenemy's mark. In addition, they gain Rage against that unit if it is on the field and MUST try to engage in combat, ignoring all other fights. "

Yes the wording is horrific. Anyone else want to take a stab at it?

I think that they should do something like this:

If a Chaos Lord has a specific mark, all troop choices must have that mark. Marks are made up as: *Names are just stand ins*

Mark of the Hydra (Alpha Legion)

Mark of the Dark Prince (Slaanesh) *I'll do examples for this one*

A Chaos Lord with Mark of the Dark Prince may take Wargear from the "Follows of Slaanesh" page and gain +2 to their Initiative and gain the USR Fearless.

If a Chaos Lord is gifted with the Mark of the Dark Prince all troop choices must be given Mark of the Dark Prince.

CSM, Chosen, Posessed, Cultists, and Havocs with Mark of the Dark Prince gain +1 to their initiative and gain the USR Fearless.

Followers of Slaanesh:

A Chosen or Veteran may be given the following Wargear/Upgrades

Tentacles of Slaanesh - Gain the USR Rending
...ETC...

A Havoc or Chosen may be given the following Options

Blastmaster....

*I think I got my point across?*

Mark of Slaughter (Khorne)

Mark of Plauge (Nurgle)

Mark of the Eternal (Tzeentch)

Mark of Iron (Iron Warriors)

Mark of the Night (Night Lords)

Mark of the Heretic (Word Bearers)

Mark of the Dark Gods (Chaos Undivided)

So if you take an Alpha Legion Lord, all of your troops are Alpha Legioneers and gain the Mark of the Hydra (for a price of course)

Now, in Chaos Warbands there are always units in the army that will worship a specific God only with a fanatical zeal. You can represent this by making these squads elites.

Add another unit to the elites section called Cult Troops. These represent the actual Plauge Marines / Berzerkers. They have all their specials as they do now.

Now, if an army is Comprized of Chaos undivided, all of the troops, again, will be chaos undivided!

This system allows you to have your "Alpha Legion" army, but still take "Cult Squads".

I have a good idea in my mind it was just hard to get into typing.. I tried .

Another thing I want changed is how posessed work. I think that if they worship a specific God they should have specific things. EX. If they worship Khorne - PW + WS boost. If they worship slaaensh, Rending on 5-6 and fleet & I5. Tzeentch, they all get ST2-3 Flamers and a 5+ invuln. Nurgle, Poisioned weapons and FNP and T5. Undivided - Rending and Flight.

They are gifted and powerful beings. The whole randomness to them sucks. Either you should be able to upgrade them with specific blessings or do something like I said above maybe...

The one thing that would also be OK is allying CSM w/ Daemons, but not the other way around. There would have to be VERY specific restrictions though!!

Vladsimpaler wrote:

FITZZ wrote: I like the idea of anomosity between sqauds with different devotional marks,however It could perhaps be best represented by only alowing mixed marks in an army lead by Chaos undivided HQs.
Add to this perhaps a limit on marked units per army,as well as possiable "anomosity test" if units are with in 12" of each other and not already engaged in shooting/CC an enemy unit.

I don't think that anyone should be penalized for using a Mark. Anyone should be able to use a Mark of Khorne unit with a Mark of Slaanesh unit. It will just come with a very big downside.

Chaos Undivided HQ's should be able to summon Daemons of any mark, and units with a Mark should be moved to an Elites slot.

Again nobody should be penalized for using marks, as long as one has points he or she should be able use as many marked units as he or she wants.

I don't like the animosity for units that have the same mark of another unit.

I could see Animosity working like this:

"Chaos gods are jealous gods. Not only that, but rivalry is common between them and each has an enemy god that represents everything they hate. Khorne hates Slaanesh and vice versa, Tzeentch hates Nurgle and vice versa. To represent this, each marked unit has Preferred Enemy against units with their god's archenemy's mark. In addition, they gain Rage against that unit if it is on the field and MUST try to engage in combat, ignoring all other fights. "

Yes the wording is horrific. Anyone else want to take a stab at it?

Perhaps I should attempt to be slightly clearer in what I ment,as it would apply to "undivided" armies,and not "Legion" armies
I don't belive anyone should necsarily be penalized for the using of marks ,one should be free to mix marks as much as they please,howeverI belive this should have a few stipulations,such as including at least one HQ that represents Chaos undivided,to me this just makes a bit more sense as to why Khorne,Slannesh,Nurgle marked troops are working together.
Now,my animosity rule would work somthing like this,if,for example a unit with the mark of Tzeentch was with in 12" of a unit with the Mark of Nurgle,then the player would have to take and pass an anomosity test (like a leadership test),failing said test would result in the two units falling on each other for one turn (just a thought).
Also I agree that a Chaos undivided HQ should allow the summoning of any daemon,reguardless of the daemons mark.

I think we need some better fast attack bikes are good but they are over priced by a bit

Frankly, can we just have 3.5 with some of the old, non functioning, rules replaced?

I loved 3.5 Chaos. They were awesome, flavorful, and you could make such fun and unique armies out of them, and still expect to not get your posterior handed to you.

With 4th Ed, you take lash princes and oblits. Anyone who doesn't isn't going to win (at least not very often against players who have competent skills and armies).

To break it down:
Bring back the Lord-Building system
Bring Back Books of Chaos
Bring back worth-while demons (or at least make the generic ones worth a damn)
Bring back Sane-naughts
Bring back the ability to pick verteran tactics for marines.
Bring Back Vehicle upgrades
Bring back the joy.

If I could just affect one change in the CSM codex it would be either the addition of a special rule for all of the non-cult/fearless units in the book, or a points reduction of those models.

Most of them are pointed higher or comparable to loyalist marines that all have three built in special rules. The CSM has an extra CCW and a higher leadership by one point, these two things do not make up points wise for the 3 embedded special rules of the loyalists.

For example look at the Space Wolves Grey Hunter; they are 15pts each with the same weapons load out as the basic CSM, plus they have three Special rules, with a base Leadership of 8. So taking into account the basic CSM base leadership of 9, it would be viable to give the non-fearless models in the Chaos Marine army one special rule or a points reduction without destroying game balance.

It could also be a way to make basic CSM compete during army selection when compared to the cult troops.

For the past 6 months we have been working locally on a special rule to give the non-cult/fearless units. This is what we are currently using.

The following special rule applies to all units chosen from the following entries in the Codex Chaos Space Marines.

Chaos Sorcerers
Chaos Chosen Space Marines
Chaos Terminators
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Raptors
Chaos Bikes
Chaos Havocs

Fear is for the weak: Chaos Marines never have their leadership reduced by more than –2 Ld as the result of losing an assault. If the Unit loses the assault by more than -2, then immediately take any remaining modifiers as armor saves. They may also attempt to regroup even if the squad has been reduced less than half strength through casualties.

It's been working out well so far. The local IW, WB and my Chaos Marine DIY have stopped looking like Cult wannabes.

what i would like to see is a weapond for the chaos that is along the same lines as a Storm Bolter, also some more lesser speical char the the 7 lord that are out now would be nice, the number of troops the LR can carry needs to be increased to carry atleast 12 so a termie lord and 5 termies can ride in it, another light transport would also be nice and a better elite choose then the chosen CSM

options for cultists...renegade guard

BAN wrote:options for cultists...renegade guard that dont completly suck.

Fixed it for you.

Bring back the Doom Fist for the lulz.

the forgeworld traitor guard are awesome, it'd be cool if the new chaos codex had traitor guard stuff.
retinues for chaos lords
make berzerkers good again
give more options for raptors
more options all round infact

@Ban:

What's wrong with zerkers? They got lots of stuff in exchange for the loss of Blood Frenzy.