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Winter wrote:

Well it's generally not that good on special characters because it does effect their loadout, although lone wolves with the mark can be brutual anti infantry. Also you can put the mark on a grey hunter or a blood claw in the squad, so you can basically have hidden attacks inside the squad, and being rending they aren't going to be all that fun.

I see your point then. I hadn't considered it being useful on a single "upgrade" model in a unit. I can see it being extremely useful on lesser models, but It was starting to bother me that I've seen multiple posts about it being used on character.

I personally wish it simply cost as much as it did in the 13th company list, and gave +d3 attacks. The codex seems to be essentially telling you not to use it with models that already have 4 or more attacks.

Defiler wrote:

Winter wrote:

Well it's generally not that good on special characters because it does effect their loadout, although lone wolves with the mark can be brutual anti infantry. Also you can put the mark on a grey hunter or a blood claw in the squad, so you can basically have hidden attacks inside the squad, and being rending they aren't going to be all that fun.

I see your point then. I hadn't considered it being useful on a single "upgrade" model in a unit. I can see it being extremely useful on lesser models, but It was starting to bother me that I've seen multiple posts about it being used on character.

I personally wish it simply cost as much as it did in the 13th company list, and gave +d3 attacks. The codex seems to be essentially telling you not to use it with models that already have 4 or more attacks.

Well most models that have 4 or more attacks are generally HQ choices like Wolf Lords or Rune Priests. It would be strange, fluff wise, for any of these guys to have Mark of the Wulfen - as overcoming this primal instinct is something that the SW need to sort out when they are younger.

Mmm delicious wolfy chalice

So... how expensive are wolfguard?

I don't believe it violates forum rules to say, "a wolf guard costs the same as an elite choice inquisitor" or "their upgrades cost similar to the upgrades in the sm dex". Are TH, claws, etc they same cost? Or cheaper?

I'm told a basic WG in termie armor (with PW and combi-bolter), costs the same as a sternguard with combi weapon. Are they really that cheap?

Also, does Grimnar make the guard "count as" troops, or can they be taken as troops? Basically, can I take 6 scoring WG, or 3?

ok now I have a question.

It says that you can take two HQs to one slot and they have to be equipped differently.

Now does this mean they have to be equipped differently from the HQ they share the slot with or all HQs

Budzerker wrote:
Also, does Grimnar make the guard "count as" troops, or can they be taken as troops? Basically, can I take 6 scoring WG, or 3?

I am wondering this myself. If they must be taken as troop choices, then I don't think I will field Grimnar at all. If they fill up an elite slot however, I will be very tempted to run 2 termie squads, one with logan attached.

WG can be troops if you take Logan. Meaning you could have 9 units of wolf guard if you wanted to.

Edit:

Basic wolfguard cost as much as a chosen from the chaos codex. And WG w/terminator armor are 3 points more than a chaos terminator.

Hulksmash wrote:WG can be troops if you take Logan. Meaning you could have 9 units of wolf guard if you wanted to.

Edit:

Basic wolfguard cost as much as a chosen from the chaos codex. And WG w/terminator armor are 3 points more than a chaos terminator.

But surely there is a rule that says no more than 20 wolf guard per army? Or has that all gone out the door?

Out the door, which makes sense. You gotta think someone like Logan Grimnar would have a company made up of the best of the best!

I think it's sad that my Khornate Marine list fits better with the Space Wolf codex than with the actual Chaos codex.

The actual codex isn't that expensive so I might as well just pick it up to see if I can make a nice Khorne list out of it.

What is a frost axe?

Hulksmash wrote:Basic wolfguard cost as much as a chosen from the chaos codex. And WG w/terminator armor are 3 points more than a chaos terminator.

Awesome, thanks!

How about the wargear? Same as SM dex? Cheaper? More expensive? Just trying to get a feel for these guys.

ph34r wrote:What is a frost axe?

It's a Frost Blade, which is a Power Weapon that adds +1 to its user's Strength.

MinMax wrote:

ph34r wrote:What is a frost axe?

It's a Frost Blade, which is a Power Weapon that adds +1 to its user's Strength.

Ah, was confused because the summary post listed Frost Blade and Frost Axe as separate which made me think that they might have different rules.

Wolfguard wargear is 5 points cheaper than the SM codex mostly. Cept for the claws which cost the same amount as the SM codex ones. In terminator armor you subtract the the new weapons cost from either the power weapon or stormbolter depending on which your replacing.

Hulksmash wrote:Cept for the claws which cost the same amount as the SM codex ones. In terminator armor you subtract the the new weapons cost from either the power weapon or stormbolter depending on which your replacing.

Hmmm, slightly confusing. Taking the point costs in the sm dex for wargear on say, a captain. The claw costs the same as a power weapon, soo... a single claw would be free? Maybe you could just pm me to avoid further confusion? Would be appreciated...

It wouldn't be free. remember the power weapon costs 5 less points. So it would be 5pts for a "wolf claw" to replace the power weapon.

I've already mentioned the points costs of Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Wolf Guard earlier in this thread. 4th page. If they've been modded out, I'm not going to mention them again.

The minimum number of Wolf Guard you can have is 3 (as in you need to use an Elites slot to buy a unit to have any), and that members of that squad can be reassigned to other packs freely.

The wargear is surprisingly cheap, I have to say. To clarify Hulksmash's post, Terminator armour is bought with a Storm Bolter and Power Weapon, either of which can be upgraded. Obviously replacing the Storm Bolter with a Wolf Claw is more expensive than replacing the Power Weapon.

Can Bjorn take a pod? Seems pretty worthless at that point cost otherwise...

Wow loads of posts to go through.

First off...

Mark of the wulfen is great on single attack models but utterly useless on everything else.

Second...

I'm not putting the points up because it ain't in keeping with board rules. I hate being cryptic with posts too, because at the end of the day that's as bad as adding the points. Btw, I have the points costs for all the units and HQs but not all the upgrades. I cannot answer the immense amount of pm's I'm getting ATM as I'm busy moving house. If you guys can wait til Saturday i'll answer all enquiries then.

With the little spare time I've had, I've been reading the book and made a couple of army lists. I have come to the conclusion...

Space Wolves are to 40K what Daemons are to fantasy.

They are broken. They have two weakness' and even then they have a cheap unit that can deal with this...

Hordes and Tanks.

SW have only two units that can take out these types of army. BC can put the hurt on hordes on the charge turn, but can't take the immense amount of hits coming back. 30 Orks can still take a charge from 15 BC and be able to have enough Ork left to cause significant DMG back to force a morale check.
The answer here is Long Fangs. Splitting fire is too good in this game. Arm your fangs with 3 HB and 2 ML and go to town. They can take out a fair amount of infantry and can put the hurt on any vehicle upto a predator from the front. And if you need a horde busting boost, draw bead with all your weapons and blow up those footsloggers til kingdom come.

I know most people won't agree with me in my as broken as Daemons statement, but we tried them against a lot of armies and SW only had trouble against Orks, with slight problems against Mechdar and strangely Mech Tau. But Mech Tau were then countered by taking drop pod assault lists and all was good with the world.
Oh SW vs SW is fun. An absolute blood bath. You guys should try it.
A quick question...
Does anyone have any objections to me writing an article for SW tactica? I think I got it down with how they work now.

I'll completely disagree with your statement about them being broken but feel free to write up a tactica for all of us with your thoughts. Even if I don't agree it doesn't mean it won't raise some thinking and/or talking points.

People posted points costs about the IG book and nothing bad happened, just so you know.

radiohazard,

what kind of list was the one you were running for most of these games? ie, what was the backbone of your list(s) and what new units performed significantly well?

Could you also say how the new dex performs tactically vs the old dex? Your suggested idea of SW Tactica sounds great.

I don't play tournaments, but it's never fun to buy and run something that performs dismally.

Thanks

Thousand Sons vs. Space Wolves for the win. I find it hilarious that their arch enemy should actually be a good counter. There is nothing Thousand Sons like more than elite power armor armies.

You could just PM me for point values. Just don't expect me to spend ten minutes of my day filling out your wishlist. Grey Hunters get Meltaguns for 5 points though, and a second one free if they have 10 models.

Here's another fun list:

Wolf Priest 135
Saga of The Warrior Born

15 Blood Claws 240
Power Weapon

6 Grey Hunters 110
Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen
Razorback, Linked Assault Cannons 75

6 Grey Hunters 110
Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen
Razorback, Linked Assault Cannons 75

10 Grey Hunters 170
2 Meltaguns, Mark of the Wulfen
Drop Pod 35

5 Wolf Guard 220
Terminator Armour, 1x Thunder Hammer, 2x Wolf Claws, 1x Assault Cannon

Iron Priest 65
Saga of the Iron Wolf
+ Cyberwolf 15

Land Raider Redeemer 250

Land Raider Crusader 250

1750


The sagas aren't really all that great, which is the biggest disappointment overall...

Iron Priest,

We (my friends and I) tested everything in the book.
Out of my group of five players, four of us are tournament veterans, so we are very thorough in the ol' testing department.

The backbone of our lists (which are OTT tourney lists) were:

Tooled up Grey Hunters with 2 Melta Guns, 1 Wulfen and 1 Power Fist in a Rhino. We agree with most of the tinternet, this config is the best.

Long Fangs with 3 HB and 2 ML or 5 ML are uber.

Thunderwolves are freekin crazy powerful, but are a big points sink.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll have more up in the tactica.

So a 1 attack powerfist is in the best config for a full grey hunter squad? Definitely not a direction i'm taking but I'm looking forward to the tactica.

Powerfists aren't worth it on Marine Sergeants with 2 attacks. Why would they be worth it on Grey Hunters with 1 attack?

Grey Hunters are worse than Tactical Marines, unless you really like Razorbacks. Skyclaw Packs are worse than Assault Marines, period.

I'll agree with the powerfist comment but..

How are GH worse than tactical marines? And how is a squad that does more for cheaper worse than assault marines? Just curious as to your reasoning behind it.

Fatman wrote:Thousand Sons vs. Space Wolves for the win. I find it hilarious that their arch enemy should actually be a good counter. There is nothing Thousand Sons like more than elite power armor armies.

I have two boxes of Thousand Sons (one painted in pre-heresy red, the other still in the box) and a plan to buy some space wolves for exactly that reason. Well, that and they're some of the few armies in 40k that I actually enjoy the fluff for. Figure it could be fun to have two elite skirmish-sized forces that are arch enemies if anyone wants to play a short game.

I think you're mixing up Grey Hunters with Blood Claws. Grey Hunters have the same statline as a Tactical Marine, but have extra special rules (Counter Attack, Acute Senses, etc).

*EDIT*

This is in response to Fetterkey's comment.