Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Mellon wrote:

terminus wrote:I love the DC rules. Rapid fire bolters, then assault with 3 (4 if Sanguinor is around) S5 I5 attacks re-rolling misses and failed wounds, while getting a 3+ and 4+ save against enemy attacks (if there's anything left). And I think one in five can take a PW/PF?

I still want to know the cost of the fast vehicles. Rhino is supposedly 50.

How come they get to assault after rapid firing their boltguns?

Because DC apparently will be Relentless.

Oh. That was a bit of a mixup on my part. Thought for some reason they were talking about Sanguinary Guard, not Death Company. My bad.

I'll say it again; I can't wait for the new Tau codex because each successive 5th edition codex seems to get more and more powerful.

agnosto wrote:I'll say it again; I can't wait for the new Tau codex because each successive 5th edition codex seems to get more and more powerful.

with the notable exception of Tyranids.

I've held up pretty well with the new codex: tyranids. its strengths just aren't as obvious as some of the other codices (i'm looking at you, space wolves!).

For me though a good codex is one that has fun mechanics, as well as things to shut down your opponent's army. 40k in some ways is like Rock, Paper, Scissors, and mech will always be the rock to the tyranids' scissors.

If scissors only works half of the time, yes. Rock is for sure the best choice in 40k.

I think you got it backwars kap'

if scissors only works half the time then Paper would be the strongest army.... because scissors cant even beat it half the time, where as rock cant ever beat it.

Demogerg wrote:

agnosto wrote:I'll say it again; I can't wait for the new Tau codex because each successive 5th edition codex seems to get more and more powerful.

with the notable exception of Tyranids.

I find new tyranids to be pretty nasty if the list is made well. I like the new codex and was thinking of possibly starting nids, then i realized i had no $.

Do you have any extra sprue lying around...........

Mellon wrote:How come they get to assault after rapid firing their boltguns?

Because they are Relentless, like terminators, bikes, or LotD. This is Death Company, not Sanguinary Guard.

IronfrontAlex wrote:so stormbolters and power weapons on jump packs? at what point cost?

Not quite Stormbolters. The Angelus (lol) bolters are Range 12", but have AP4. The power swords are master-crafted. They cost 40 each. This is Sanguinary Guard.

The Vanguard are 10 points cheaper, while being able to easily get FNP and furious charge. Suck it, vanilla marines.

Demogerg wrote:I am most worried about mephiston...

T6, so no instant death from high strength attacks
he is Infantry with 5 wounds, so if he is hiding in a squad of 10 you are VERY unlikely to kill him with shooting.
I7 so hes almost always going first in combat
can attack with 8X S10 attacks that are likely to reroll hits+wounds, that ignore armor.

So kill him with shooting? nope, as tough as any tyranid MC, with a cover save and 10 albative wounds

Kill him in combat? nope, hes going first, hitting and wounding you 7 or 8 times at S10, if that doesnt instant kill your toons then he can just use the force weapon to ID them.

on top of all this, rumors are he costs about the same as the "uberkilly" characters like Ragnar Blackmane, who he would take out back and beat with a stick without breaking a sweat.

30 boyz, nob with Power Klaw =D

. But I haven't got a chance to look at the codex.. but the new minis look amazing.. the sanguinary gaurd ? or the high priest ? can't wait

Mephiston has no invulnerable save and is not an IC, so no hiding in units. Sack up, ladies.

Mephiston has no invulnerable save and is not an IC, so no hiding in units. Sack up, ladies.

What are his transport options? If he can't buy any dedicated transports the only way to move him is the Storm Raven, unless the BA player buys a Land Raider for something like Devastators and just lets Mephiston ride in it instead. If he can buy a Land Raider or any transport of his own, whether he is or isn't an IC doesn't matter at all. He will assault with the rest of the Blood Angels from other vehicles into the same scraps and whenever he's being shot he's surrounded by models from other BA units and has the 4+ cover save. Additionally, a nearby Sanguinary Priest will grant him FNP and FC.

For example, two Land Raiders, one with Mephiston and one with AM and Sanguinary Priest. There's pretty much nothing they can't handle. My point? Mephiston is quite good regardless of his IC status. I've no idea what his exact points cost is but he blows all of the Tyranid HQs straight out of the water in points effectiveness if he costs anything less than the rumoured 250 points.

Mephiston is
Only knows psychic powers which let him get
preferred enemy
wings
S10 force weapon
is a single unit, I he can buy a transport.

Pretty good stats, comparable to on most everything.
No invuln but

Dante is , no and his weapon is a , big deal for . Makes troops though, which is excellent if you are big into modeling. And gives whatever squad he is with hit and run and they dont scatter on deep strike.

Astorath has a that forces all successful

Storm raven is dont remember all the details though, costs a lot already, buffing it up is

have and angelus boltguns, any of them can get or for the same.

terminus wrote:

Mellon wrote:How come they get to assault after rapid firing their boltguns?

Because they are Relentless, like terminators, bikes, or LotD. This is Death Company, not Sanguinary Guard.

IronfrontAlex wrote:so stormbolters and power weapons on jump packs? at what point cost?

Not quite Stormbolters. The Angelus (lol) bolters are Range 12", but have AP4. The power swords are master-crafted. They cost 40 each. This is Sanguinary Guard.

The Vanguard are 10 points cheaper, while being able to easily get FNP and furious charge. Suck it, vanilla marines.

Am I the only one that sees an issue with this? SM Vanguard are THE SAME UNIT, but probably worse actually as it won't have the BA universal rules.

Why would they make it cheaper?

I don't understand why GW is like, "Well we sure messed that one up, screw it lets just do what we should have done in the beginning with these new dudes."

Codex balance. Vanguard vet's are likely to be much more prolific in a Blood Angels army. Plus there is no option for a relic blade. And they are only 10 points cheaper as a squad (no matter how many you take). They just have the advantage of only scattering 1d6

Not to mention they are in a very, very competitive spot in the codex. I think Heavy Support might be the least competitive spot in the book actually....which MAKES SENSE!

Therion wrote:

Mephiston has no invulnerable save and is not an IC, so no hiding in units. Sack up, ladies.

What are his transport options? If he can't buy any dedicated transports the only way to move him is the Storm Raven, unless the BA player buys a Land Raider for something like Devastators and just lets Mephiston ride in it instead. If he can buy a Land Raider or any transport of his own, whether he is or isn't an IC doesn't matter at all. He will assault with the rest of the Blood Angels from other vehicles into the same scraps and whenever he's being shot he's surrounded by models from other BA units and has the 4+ cover save. Additionally, a nearby Sanguinary Priest will grant him FNP and FC.

For example, two Land Raiders, one with Mephiston and one with AM and Sanguinary Priest. There's pretty much nothing they can't handle. My point? Mephiston is quite good regardless of his IC status. I've no idea what his exact points cost is but he blows all of the Tyranid HQs straight out of the water in points effectiveness if he costs anything less than the rumoured 250 points.

Buying a Land Raider for a guy that costs as much as a Land Raider is pretty damn silly. Anyway, he doesn't need the transport considering one of the psychic powers gives him a 12" move and he has fleet. But yes, hijacking someone else's transport is the only way to get him into a tank.

If I were to design a list right now, the core would be a unit of death company with plasmaguns and chaplain in a stormraven with a librarian furioso attached, then two assault squads with meltaguns and sanguinary priests in stormravens of their own with DC dreads attached. I'm not sure if the jetpacks can be traded towards a cheaper razorback, but if so, I'd take two as further shooting support and just run them empty. Mephiston could sit in one, and the other would screen him as he advanced up the field. Then just pepper in some outflanking Baal predators, some scouts to hold the home objective, and viola. In larger games, I'd start looking at the Sanguinary/Stern/Vanguard stuff.

Hulksmash wrote:Codex balance. Vanguard vet's are likely to be much more prolific in a Blood Angels army. Plus there is no option for a relic blade. And they are only 10 points cheaper as a squad (no matter how many you take). They just have the advantage of only scattering 1d6

Not to mention they are in a very, very competitive spot in the codex. I think Heavy Support might be the least competitive spot in the book actually....which MAKES SENSE!

I suppose so, are they still fast attack? Which will be competing with the Baal Pred right? Which I see Baals winning every time.

Regardless of what anyone says so far whether it be Meph or DC, doesn't matter. Baal Predators are the scariest thing I've read about so far.

Fast tl Assaultcannons or Firestorm cannon? Yup I would be scared of that too. I need to buy a few of those...

kaptaink wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Codex balance. Vanguard vet's are likely to be much more prolific in a Blood Angels army. Plus there is no option for a relic blade. And they are only 10 points cheaper as a squad (no matter how many you take). They just have the advantage of only scattering 1d6

Not to mention they are in a very, very competitive spot in the codex. I think Heavy Support might be the least competitive spot in the book actually....which MAKES SENSE!

I suppose so, are they still fast attack? Which will be competing with the Baal Pred right? Which I see Baals winning every time.

Regardless of what anyone says so far whether it be Meph or DC, doesn't matter. Baal Predators are the scariest thing I've read about so far.

Agreed.

My orks are going to get owned so hard by 6 pred lists.

Can they still take them as Heavy Support? It's kinda dumb if they can.

Regular ones yeah.

kaptaink wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Codex balance. Vanguard vet's are likely to be much more prolific in a Blood Angels army. Plus there is no option for a relic blade. And they are only 10 points cheaper as a squad (no matter how many you take). They just have the advantage of only scattering 1d6

Not to mention they are in a very, very competitive spot in the codex. I think Heavy Support might be the least competitive spot in the book actually....which MAKES SENSE!

I suppose so, are they still fast attack? Which will be competing with the Baal Pred right? Which I see Baals winning every time.

Regardless of what anyone says so far whether it be Meph or DC, doesn't matter. Baal Predators are the scariest thing I've read about so far.

They are Elites, so the competition is with Sanguinary Guard, Sternguard, Priests, and non-DC dreds.

And yes, by far the hardest BA list wont be assault but armored company with AV13 spam.

Actually Terminus I'm pretty sure they are fast attack. Since the elites section was (to my best knowledge):

-Chaplains
-Sanguinary Priests
-Furioso (libby and non-libby)
-Sternguard
-Sanguinary Guard
-Assault Termies
-Standard Termies

Way to much awesome stuff in this slot!

and Fast Attack was:

-Baal Preds
-Bike Squadrons
-Scout Bike Squadrons
-Attack Bikes
-Landspeeders
-Vanguard Vets

Only 2-3 unit's you'll see on the table from this slot (I'm actually considering Vanguard Vets myself with the descent rule )

Elites are to saturated already. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have added an 8th or even 9th unit to it.

Oh and standard dreads are heavies. DC dreads (AV12 2dccw's) are troops with requirements to field.

I stand corrected, was just going off memory.

Yeah, the fast outflanking Baal is by far the star of the FA section. However, them being cheaper, scattering less after deep strikes and able to immediately assault, and benefiting from the usual BA nonsense, Vanguard are a finally a viable choice.

Nobody is EVER going to want to play against a Blood Angel attacker in planetstrike.

the only thing that sucks is that, unless BA have it different, vanguard cant heroic intervention with an IC attached. They would be amazing with a sanguinary priest attached.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Nobody is EVER going to want to play against a Blood Angel attacker in planetstrike.

I would. But I'm holding everything in reserve and bringing my Baneblades.

I agree they are gonna be deadly in planetstrike.

Which oddly fits their fluff.....at least the newest stuff