Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:So where do squats fit in

Tyranid stomachs.

Platuan4th wrote:

Karon wrote:Oh, no no. You take me all wrong. I wasn't saying because it was only two factions, I was saying because they called it "Order and Destruction" LOL, which is the same thing WAR call's their two factions.

Pretty lazy of them to coin it so simple. Eldar are hardly orderly, you could say the same for the Imperium.

Blame GW. That's what they called them in the Storm of Chaos Online Campaign years before.

To be fair:
They also called the combined forces of the Orks, Chaos, and Dark Eldar acting in concert for the 13th Black Crusade that also.

As they also called the combined forces of the Imperium(Guard, Marines, Inquisition) and the Eldar the Forces of Order.

Blood Angels teamed up with Necrons to defeat the bugs. Thats in the lastest BA codex. So we already have president of enemies forming uneasy truces to defeat a common foe.

More than 2 factions dilutes the player population. Harder to get groups, the economy is smaller, etc etc... It might sound nice to be an "every race for it's own" (looks good on paper) but you really don't want that.

And again, the Blood Angels/Necron "team-up" was just two forces fighting a common enemy and ignoring each other. They did not broker any form of truce--they just ignored each other.

I wonder how gear/armor would work. Thats my only concern, how they do it.

I call that the same thing since they both agreed to not kill each other. Spoken or not.

Just like I ignore that bit of fluff.

"both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one."

Battleworn Necrons? Marines disliking the idea of killing Necrons? Clearly Commander Dante and the 3rd Company were heretics, and should be purged.

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:So where do squats fit in

*BLAM*

Kanluwen wrote:...
What else would they call it?

They called them the same thing for The 13th Black Crusade campaign. You're reading way too much into what they call them.

Plus, as said:
What else would they call them?
The Forces of the Empire and Friends? ChaosJerksCo?

You really don't think there's a better designation? Empire and Friends vs. ChaosJerksCo is the 2nd best thing to call them besides Order and Destruction?

How about the forces of Method vs. the armies of Madness? Defiance vs. Malice? Dictate vs. Tyranny? Law vs. Enmity? I could go on and on. I guess to some people, Empire and Friends vs. ChaosJerksCo is the pinnacle of awesomeness, second only to Order and Destruction. I personally think the developers could have shown a little more creativity...

Moopy wrote:More than 2 factions dilutes the player population. Harder to get groups, the economy is smaller, etc etc... It might sound nice to be an "every race for it's own" (looks good on paper) but you really don't want that.

Dark Age of Camelot had three factions (Briton, Celtic, and Norse) and didn't have any trouble.

IMO, The Forces of Order VS. Forces of Madness would have been better.

I really don't like The Forces of Order, as it makes zero sense, but I can't think of a better alternative.

Karon wrote:IMO, The Forces of Order VS. Forces of Madness would have been better.

MADNESS????
''This is....''
Madness is a terrible idea.

I have no problem with the Order vs Destruction factions and am sort of mystified by the whole flap over it. They actually already did this before, in Dawn of War - Winter Assault... remember? It was order and disorder, but close enough.

I don't think you can have every side be their own faction because that just leads to some weird situations, like Space Marines teaming up with Tyranids to beat up the Imperial Guard. I guess you can find the fluff to support it happening maybe once (unlikely) but if it's happening in game every week it just seems weird.

To the guy who said the Eldar are "just in it for themselves" - well, which faction isn't? I don't see the Imperium too worried about how the Tau make out. Despite the individual nuances of their culture, it's pretty clear that the Eldar, Imperium, and Tau represent order - otherwise, why would the Eldar even try to stop the Necrons unless they were attacking craftworlds?

Conversely, it's clear that Chaos, Orks, Tyranids, DE and Necrons fairly represent Destruction. It just seems the most logical way to do it.

Clearly, space marines razing entire planets with the slightest hint of the influence of chaos is quite orderly.

Makes no sense, guy.

Karon wrote:Clearly, space marines razing entire planets with the slightest hint of the influence of chaos is quite orderly.

Makes no sense, guy.

How is using excessive force chaotic? Foolish perhaps, but I don't see that as defaulting to being chaotic and/or disordered.

I think it looks great. Good texture work and a very nice art direction. Looks like they grabbed one of the pastel environmental artists from WoW.

". "You're going to have quests, you're going to go out and kill stuff, you're going to group up, you're going to join larger scale battles. It's structured very much like a traditional MMO. I think the Dawn of War series does an amazing job with tactical, squad-based stuff, [Relic's console-based action game] Space Marine is an awesome, visceral action adventure like one dude kicking ass. For us it's really more of an RPG. You're living the life of this dude not for the life of a console adventure but for hopefully months and maybe even years. What do these guys do off the battlefield? What are their interactions like with other races and in various worlds? It really gives you a unique perspective because it's a hero in that universe, not just a unit." "


http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1099584p1.html

Neconilis wrote:

Karon wrote:Clearly, space marines razing entire planets with the slightest hint of the influence of chaos is quite orderly.

Makes no sense, guy.

How is using excessive force chaotic? Foolish perhaps, but I don't see that as defaulting to being chaotic and/or disordered.

I actually was referring to how it wasn't ORDERLY, as Space Marines are part of the Forces of Order, along with Eldar.

Eldars and Space Marines in the same faction? Damn, that's rather stupid

QQ

Really, though- are the anti-factioners arguing in favor of a 40k free for all?

MMOs live and die on creation of communities. If you can't get the average user to feel connected to other players in your world, you won't be around long enough to worry about PvP balance, etc.

Factions help create an artificial 'team' for a player to belong to. If you make the pool of potential team mates too small, the average player won't be able to find a group, won't be able to 'connect' with the community.

For the former WoWers, imagine if you could only team with other Orcs, or only other humans. It'd be difficult to find a team, and that's on the largest MMO in the world.

The alternative, for 40k, is to allow anyone to team with anyone... which leads to even more preposterous fluff offenses than having a single sector-wide alliance amongst Imperials and Eldar.

Ahtman wrote:
Dark Age of Camelot had three factions (Briton, Celtic, and Norse) and didn't have any trouble.

It's still one of the greatest mysteries to me, why Mythic who cornered such gameplay with a nothing backstory, then decieded to abandon it in favour of the two tier system they put in and ultimately led to the fall of WaR.

You could argue had they copied their own game, perhaps WaR would not be pretty much mothballed as it is now.


With it looking like Dark millennium is going the same way, I am starting to wonder if its a call by someone at GW?

Karon wrote:I actually was referring to how it wasn't ORDERLY, as Space Marines are part of the Forces of Order, along with Eldar.

Forces of order can mean those forces who have authority or are acting for good or conforming to law and authority. Doesn't mean they are orderly in organization or how they keep the galaxy.

Platuan4th wrote:

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:So where do squats fit in

Tyranid stomachs.

If tyranids ever get introduced that would make for a fun special event. Maybe for Thankgiving, the great squat feast. They're kinda the size and shape of a roast turkey.

Nids are supposed to be a PvE faction aren't they?

The Dreadnote wrote:Nids are supposed to be a PvE faction aren't they?

They mentioned in an interview that 'Nids are going to be the main PvE antagonist, aye.

I imagine at some point Necron could end up as a PVE antagonist as well.

Neat. Glad they decided not to go with WoW lookalike (but then some people accuse EVERY MMO of being a WoW lookalike, so I tend to ignore them).

Should be much more interesting than that pile of mediocrity.

Yeah, there's already been two in this thread.

Karon wrote:

Neconilis wrote:

Karon wrote:Clearly, space marines razing entire planets with the slightest hint of the influence of chaos is quite orderly.

Makes no sense, guy.

How is using excessive force chaotic? Foolish perhaps, but I don't see that as defaulting to being chaotic and/or disordered.

I actually was referring to how it wasn't ORDERLY, as Space Marines are part of the Forces of Order, along with Eldar.

I think you miss the point of what a "force of order" does. Order and Chaos refer to their end objective, not their actions.

The Imperium will destroy whole planets as long as it keeps their control of the galaxy intact. Their goal is to impose their own order in the universe.

If you want a good example of Order versus Chaos, watch Babylon 5 Season 4.

Besides, recent fluff indicates that the Imperium try and do everything in their power to avoid a full planetary take down. They control the majority of the galaxy and have to manage those resources. There are only a finite number of habitable worlds, and you can't afford to loose them.

A new article with a bit more information.

Dunno if that was posted. It's definitely an MMORPG, but stated to be more of an action-rpg than a traditional one.

Hopefully the combat will be sort of akin to Mass Effect 2/Tabula Rasa, would be nice if they'd release a bit more. I'm glad Joe Mad at least hinted that the combat isn't standing next to each other trading blows, like WoW/etc, that would be terrible.

At least it is very clear there is a reticule and guns!

Also: does everyone say everything looks like f'ing WoW when it has stylized graphics? ffs
It actually looks a lot like Darksiders, since its the same engine after all, with the same artists doing graphics for it as for Darksiders.