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pretre wrote:DE, GK and SW don't have 30 units, unless you count SC and then they're up in the 32-35 range.

Heck, SOB codex has 24 or so if you count SC.

And that's ignoring usefulness. One could argue SW don't make 30 useful units when you drop the 'Claw' units and Tyranids definitely drop below 30 once you get rid of the dead weight.


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halonachos wrote:That and IG now have stormtrooper with hot-shot lasguns that ignore power armor saves. Nice rapid fire AP3 weapons they are.

Umm, okay. On their elite troops. How does that equate to 'the sisters get second rate equipment'? Oh yeah, it doesn't.

Sisters have flamers that ignore all armor saves.

pretre wrote:Heck, SOB codex has 24 or so if you count SC.

Try 14 if you mean C:WH (not counting the inquisition units, which were merged with C:GK and hopefully aren't likely to be included in C:SoB).


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Amaya wrote:Sisters have flamers that ignore all armor saves.

... on a to-wound roll of 6, after succeeding a Test of Faith, after expending a Faith Point...

pretre wrote:
I also realize (or hope) your statement is hyperbole, but when did any codex said that all the other chapters worship one primarch or that one codex was the greatest of all time. Oh yeah, they didn't.

Except in Codex: Space Marines.



BEHOLD YOUR SPIRITUAL LIEGE!

BaronIveagh wrote:

pretre wrote:
I also realize (or hope) your statement is hyperbole, but when did any codex said that all the other chapters worship one primarch or that one codex was the greatest of all time. Oh yeah, they didn't.

Except in Codex: Space Marines.

BEHOLD YOUR SPIRITUAL LIEGE!

Thanks for the pic, how about an actual quote...

Melissia wrote:

pretre wrote:Heck, SOB codex has 24 or so if you count SC.

Try 14 if you mean C:WH (not counting the inquisition units, which were merged with C:GK and hopefully aren't likely to be included in C:SoB).


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Amaya wrote:Sisters have flamers that ignore all armor saves.

... on a to-wound roll of 6, after succeeding a Test of Faith, after expending a Faith Point...

Which has a 33/36 chance of passing and you get to decide to do it after you roll to hit.

3 Templates hitting at least 5 models, 14 Bolter Shots = 24.3 hits, 12 wounding Marines, 4 of those ignoring armor.

Amaya wrote:
Which has a 33/36 chance of passing and you get to decide to do it after you roll to hit.

??? Faith checks are based on squad size, not leadership. The rest looked right though.

Which still means there's a chance it will fail, and that even if it does pass, there's a chance you'll not get any to-wound rolls of 6 anyway. It's not "flamers that ignore all armor saves", that's horrendously inaccurate and shows one's ignorance on the topic. Hell even "rending flamers" would be better, even if that's also not accurate.

pretre wrote:

Amaya wrote:
Which has a 33/36 chance of passing and you get to decide to do it after you roll to hit.

??? Faith checks are based on squad size, not leadership. The rest looked right though.

Squad size of 10.

Amaya wrote:
Which has a 33/36 chance of passing and you get to decide to do it after you roll to hit.

3 Templates hitting at least 5 models, 14 Bolter Shots = 24.3 hits, 12 wounding Marines, 4 of those ignoring armor.

Your math is a little off. If I'm getting 12 wounds, statistically I'm getting 2 AP1 wounds not 4. The marines then stack those 1 model thanks to wound allocation. Marines may lose 3 more marines due to failed saves.

You are also assuming that the Sisters have not taken any casualties in your ability to pass their Faith check. Battle Sisters aren't exactly over powered or even terribly competitve in 5th edition, they are mildly so.

andrewm9 wrote:

Amaya wrote:
Which has a 33/36 chance of passing and you get to decide to do it after you roll to hit.

3 Templates hitting at least 5 models, 14 Bolter Shots = 24.3 hits, 12 wounding Marines, 4 of those ignoring armor.

Your math is a little off. If I'm getting 12 wounds, statistically I'm getting 2 AP1 wounds not 4. The marines then stack those 1 model thanks to wound allocation. Marines may lose 3 more marines due to failed saves.

24 hits, 12 normal wounds, 4 AP 1 wounds. I.e. 16 wounds from 24 hits.

16 bolter shots (eight sisters including the superior with bolters), 10.72 hits at BS4. Of these, 3.59 will wound T4 at AP5, 1.82 will be AP1 wounds.

How many flamer hits you get depends on range and your enemy's ability to not bunch their infantry up, but I sincerely doubt you'll get fourteen flamer hits on average even with two flamers (Which is not an ideal build for Sisters) against someone who expects to be up against a flamer based build and plays accordingly-- especially a Marine player. Assuming you do somehow manage to get fourteen flamer hits, of these, 4.69 will wound T4 at AP5, 2.38 will wound T4 at AP1, resulting in an average of 8.34 total unsaved wounds.

That assumes that you can actually get fourteen hits with a flamer or two.

...Which is hard when usually there's only 5 or 10 marines in a squad...

Phototoxin wrote:...Which is hard when usually there's only 5 or 10 marines in a squad...

If there's only 5 men in the tactical squad then yeah, its impossible for two flamers to get 14 hits. You need a minimum of seven marines under the template to get the 14 hits from two flamers. It should be relatively easy to get seven guys under a flame template unless the opponent made a single file line of marines with each one being the maximum two inches apart.

They may change the faith system though. From earlier posts it looks like it'll work like the IG order system which seems easier to use compared to the faith system they have now. They may also give more heroes that grant the army overall traits similar to the Space Marines. He'stan gives the army master crafted flamers and what not for example.

halonachos wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:...Which is hard when usually there's only 5 or 10 marines in a squad...

If there's only 5 men in the tactical squad then yeah, its impossible for two flamers to get 14 hits. You need a minimum of seven marines under the template to get the 14 hits from two flamers. It should be relatively easy to get seven guys under a flame template unless the opponent made a single file line of marines with each one being the maximum two inches apart.

They may change the faith system though. From earlier posts it looks like it'll work like the IG order system which seems easier to use compared to the faith system they have now. They may also give more heroes that grant the army overall traits similar to the Space Marines. He'stan gives the army master crafted flamers and what not for example.

IF an enemy bunches up an entire squad of tacticals in such a way that I can get the overwhelming majority of them under BOTH flamer templates, they're probably gonna die anyway!

...or you can all get Tau armies

im2randomghgh wrote:...or you can all get Tau armies

So I can get steam rolled by newer codice?

IdentifyZero wrote:I recently just sold off about 2000 points of metal sisters for one reason: Given how much people will pay for these girls, it was a better idea then keeping them around. That and when the new plastics come out, a sisters army might be more fun as you won't be stuck with 4 different models for your normal gals. xD

Where did you sell them if you don't mind? I have a pretty sizable Sisters army, all primed, weighted bases, several Forge World kits (exorcists), even in Army Transport foam trays. I have decided that I simply have too many painting projects and armies. I would like to unload it to a good home.

I just hope the new Sisters models look impressive.

Hopefully they will, the DE got some good new ones, the Leman Russ got some remodeling done(rounded turret), and the command squad looks really good compared to the commander with the Hitler cut and monocle.

pretre wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

pretre wrote:
I also realize (or hope) your statement is hyperbole, but when did any codex said that all the other chapters worship one primarch or that one codex was the greatest of all time. Oh yeah, they didn't.

Except in Codex: Space Marines.

BEHOLD YOUR SPIRITUAL LIEGE!

Thanks for the pic, how about an actual quote...

That would mean this Author hate is based on facts.

Things I'd like to see:

- Sister Hospitaller and bodyguard squad, that provides a FNP aura. As a non-combatant, this would allow her to work without standing on the front line getting shot herself.

- Unit of 3 special character Hospitallers and their bodyguards, that get Shen's Master of Chirurgery rule as long as all 3 are alive.

- Sister Famulous special character that acts as a liason to make an allied unit (Arbites?) Troops.

Dark Scipio wrote:That would mean this Author hate is based on facts.

Page 24 of Codex: Space Marines.

Holy_doctrine wrote:I just hope the new Sisters models look impressive.

Pretty sure it's Jes Goodwin designing them so they should be great models, just look at the new Dark Eldar line.

They will be awesome. I'm hoping that they are gothic and Baroque enough. That word got bandied around end of 3rd/mid 4th edition and to be fair the Telletubbies were more Baroque. Sure Blanche's art was gothy but the minis were good for the time.. but still not as uber as they should be.

I'm hoping that the SoB will be proper medieval style nunnery combined with armor. Ready to cleanse and purify all!


Per fides et incendia!

Blanche's art isn't "gothy", it's just dumb...

Melissia wrote:Blanche's art isn't "gothy", it's just dumb...

GW's greatest lie... convincing the world that Jon Blanche was an artist!

He's good at ideas and concepts, in that sense I think he is creative and much of the suggested creation is gothy.

As for drawing a nice picture... well I'm in agreement, he's naff.

Yeah, kinda like Image Comic's greatest lie was convincing us that Liefeld was an artist.

AlexHolker wrote:

Dark Scipio wrote:That would mean this Author hate is based on facts.

Page 24 of Codex: Space Marines.

That page talks about how other chapters aspire to the 'standards and teachings of Rowboat' i.e. the Codex Astartes. Which is perfectly true.
It never says they worship Rowboat or anything. Geeze. What's the problem?

halonachos wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:...or you can all get Tau armies

So I can get steam rolled by newer codice?

1. JSJ

2. theyre prbly gonna get a new dex, eventually

im2randomghgh wrote:theyre prbly gonna get a new dex, eventually

So you can make a thread about that instead of spamming this one with Tau fanboyism yes?

Dark Scipio wrote:
That would mean this Author hate is based on facts.

"These Chapters can never be Ultramarines, for their gene-seed is not that of Roboute Guilliman. Nevertheless, they will ever aspire to the standards and teachings of the great Primarch." - Codex Space Marines, page 24

"Some, such as the Blood Angels and their successors, strive to be worthy of Guilliman's legacy, but their recalcitrant gene-seed drives them ever further from it. Others, such as the Space Wolves and the Black Templars, remain stubbornly independent, looking to their own founder's ways of war and caring little of how they fare in the eyes of others" - Codex Space Marines, pg 24

Melissia wrote:Yeah, kinda like Image Comic's greatest lie was convincing us that Liefeld was an artist.

I blame Marvel for that one.