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Hulksmash wrote:The above. I don't mind someone who is mildly buzzing. Had a beer or two and are just chilling while we play. I do have a problem with full blown drunk. It's my time too and personally I don't want to waste it like that.

Agreed. Plus if they are drunk and I'm not that means they didn't share the wealth earlier and now must pay!


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Dashofpepper wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

2. If I'm playing a drunk in a tournament forget the tourney organizer. I'm calling the cops.

Alright...WHY?!?

Janthkin: You're presuming that someone drinking isn't giving you their undivided attention. Why? I bet that half the people there hung over from the previous night are not giving you undivided attention. And you're using assumptions.

Frazzled....calling the cops why? Over 21, not engaged in any illegal behavior....what's the issue?

This line of discussion started because someone made a comparison of drinking to not bringing a WYSIWYG army. Like, "Playing against someone who is drinking is as bad as playing against someone who who is proxying in a GT."

I'm still looking for the why, but I don't see any - just some guesses about what behavior might be, stereotypes, flat misinformation....its almost malicious. That's like saying, "I'm not playing against anyone using GK because they will obviously be proxying their army and cheating." That's an equally broad and bad assumption.

Frazzled, Janthkin - lets hear it. Illuminate me.

1. Drunk in public is illegal.
2. As noted above if you're drunk and I am not you did not share the wealth earlier. I am a petty man...
3. I don't interact with drunks. Buzzed is fine. Drunk is not good. Plus if you're drunk during the day thats no fun and can lead to bad things. I don't play games and if you get obnoxious and violent I'll kill you. I dealt with too much of that crap in California thanks.

EDIT: the above is not meant to any particular poster or gamer in general and is not meant in a hostile way. You want to get drunk in a bar on your own time not by me thats your call. You want to have a drink and have fun we're good too and share that bottle-at the appropriate time. If you're an angry drunk in the middle of a game of toy soldiers in the middle of the day bad things are likely to happen and can spiral out of control. Fast.

I agree with Janthkin, Hulksmash and Frazzled.

Hell, I don't mind having a couple of beers at a tourney. I had a few at Adepticon, between rounds and in the team tournament one of my gentlemanly opponents actually handed me a beer (it certainly helped their sportsmanship score!).

Many people were doing the same, and it was fine. The idea of someone actually being trashed during an event though is distasteful.

Monster Rain wrote:I agree with Janthkin and Frazzled.

Hell, I don't mind having a couple of beers at a tourney. I had a few at Adepticon, between rounds and in the team tournament one of my gentlemanly opponents actually handed me a beer (it certainly helped their sportsmanship score!).

Many people were doing the same, and it was fine. The idea of someone actually being trashed during an event though is distasteful.

I think this is the distinction most people are making Dash, when you say "drunk" they're envisioning, well, a fully drunk, sloppy, obnoxious guy.

And for the record, anyone that thinks they're a smooth charmer or diplomat after numerous drinks is delusional. We all get sloppy and obnoxious after enough. I think you're referring to just being buzzed dash, which most are fine with, I know I am.

A couple beers throughout the day/at the end, fine and dandy. But if my opponent was flat out drunk, I'd call a TO/Judge and ask them to do something about it. I didn't pay good money to play against a guy who can't show me enough respect to show up sober and pay attention.

Monster Rain wrote:I agree with Janthkin, Hulksmash and Frazzled.

Hell, I don't mind having a couple of beers at a tourney. I had a few at Adepticon, between rounds and in the team tournament one of my gentlemanly opponents actually handed me a beer (it certainly helped their sportsmanship score!).

Many people were doing the same, and it was fine. The idea of someone actually being trashed during an event though is distasteful.

Yea I think we have to define this quickly. Having a beer or two between games in the evening-cool. No problem whatsoever. Again, rum and coke uber alles punks!
Being drunk is different and lets define as at the level the cops will take you to the tank to dry out shall we?

Yeah, let's keep our BAC under .08 until the final round, shall we?

I don't know about .08 since some people can get that off of cough syrup but I agree with the intention you put forth

Monster Rain wrote:

Yeah, let's keep our BAC under .08 until the final round, shall we?

Besides, you don't want to overdo it before the evening shenanigans that occur at the bar after each day of the event!

I'd actually step down my "drunk opponent" tolerance to be far less than "cops would haul you away" level. Chart for my alcoholic progressions

1-2 beers -> buzzed, enjoying myself (if Im drinking during the day, this is where I stay)
3-5 -> Getting semi drunk, easily distracted, probably not the most fun opponent, but I can manage
5-7 -> Obnoxious phase is setting in. While my conversational skills may be good enough for a loud bar and quick remarks, trying to get me to focus on a specific task involving fine motor skills for 2 hours is a lost cause
7-10 -> In public, the cops would take me away due to not having enough talent points in my "standing" tree

I'd say for myself, 5+ is inappropriate and my opponent would be in his rights to call a judge/TO. Note this is a decent amount below the "take him to the tank" level.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

2. If I'm playing a drunk in a tournament forget the tourney organizer. I'm calling the cops.

Alright...WHY?!?

Janthkin: You're presuming that someone drinking isn't giving you their undivided attention. Why? I bet that half the people there hung over from the previous night are not giving you undivided attention. And you're using assumptions.

Frazzled....calling the cops why? Over 21, not engaged in any illegal behavior....what's the issue?

This line of discussion started because someone made a comparison of drinking to not bringing a WYSIWYG army. Like, "Playing against someone who is drinking is as bad as playing against someone who who is proxying in a GT."

I'm still looking for the why, but I don't see any - just some guesses about what behavior might be, stereotypes, flat misinformation....its almost malicious. That's like saying, "I'm not playing against anyone using GK because they will obviously be proxying their army and cheating." That's an equally broad and bad assumption.

Frazzled, Janthkin - lets hear it. Illuminate me.

If you're going to put your foot down and say that not following your interpretation of WYSIWIG (which is subjective and by RAW only applies to wargear, and in some codicies only for the characters) is cheating, how can you be completely flabbergasted that someone else would put their foot down about something else they don't like or agree with? (They have a different interpretation of social drinking I guess.)

Deepeyes wrote:I only stuck it on for aesthetic reasons. I thought it looked cool . Is there anything that could cause instant death to mesphiston?

A non-exhaustive list would include:
Force Weapons, D-cannons, Wraithcannons, Direswords, Skulltaker, Blissgivers, C'Tan Phase Swords, Boneswords, and any D-strength weapons.

whitedragon wrote:If you're going to put your foot down and say that not following your interpretation of WYSIWIG (which is subjective and by RAW only applies to wargear, and in some codicies only for the characters) is cheating, how can you be completely flabbergasted that someone else would put their foot down about something else they don't like or agree with? (They have a different interpretation of social drinking I guess.)

Well...one is against the rules of the event. One is not.

Might as well just say that if you are wearing blue or black, I'm putting my foot down as disgusted, and if you're wearing blue or black and have any facial hair, you need to be ejected from the event. And if you're wearing and blue or black, have facial hair, and are from out of town, I'm calling the cops to report a terrorist.

Equally valid by your parameters.

We're talking about foundational rules that make an event. WYSIWYG. And how to respond appropriately if someone shows up WITHOUT it. Just like someone showing up without the mandatory number of army lists. What do you do if your opponent won't give you a copy of their army list because they didn't bring any? Things that shouldn't happen because the event rules forbid them, but potentially could - and what the appropriate response is.

I don't care what a person's been drinking, or what the BAC is. If they're trashed but are fun, polite, and give me a good game, I could give a damn if they were straight edge or tweaking.

Most people aren't as much fun, to sober people, when they are drunk. There are exceptions of course, and lots of people can be reasonably coherent and funcitonal while pretty blitzed.

Public intoxication is illegal in some (but not all) states. Of course, being in a gaming store or hall isn't exactly public.

Dashofpepper wrote:

whitedragon wrote:If you're going to put your foot down and say that not following your interpretation of WYSIWIG (which is subjective and by RAW only applies to wargear, and in some codicies only for the characters) is cheating, how can you be completely flabbergasted that someone else would put their foot down about something else they don't like or agree with? (They have a different interpretation of social drinking I guess.)

Well...one is against the rules of the event. One is illegal.

Corrected your typo.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Well...one is against the rules of the event. One is not.

Actually, this thread wouldn't be 8 pages if it was that simple. WYSIWIG is not as cut and dry or RAW tight as you would like to believe.

EDIT:

Public Intoxication is illegal as Frazz points out. As Polonius also points out, a game store or hall is not exactly public, which means that the TO, Event Organizer, or game store owner can also eject you if they choose as well.

Public intoxication isn't illegal everywhere. Ohio it's only if also disorderly, same with Missouri (where you can also drink in a moving car if you're not driving).

Polonius wrote:Public intoxication isn't illegal everywhere. Ohio it's only if also disorderly, same with Missouri (where you can also drink in a moving car if you're not driving).

I am sure you're right P. I'll rephrase. In probably every jurisdiction I'd be in, there is such.

I guess in that instance I'd just get the TO to throw you out. If they didn't I'd just blatantly cheat (as in "hey look over there!" and then make your greater demon disappear) and make fun of you.

Polonius wrote:Public intoxication isn't illegal everywhere. Ohio it's only if also disorderly, same with Missouri (where you can also drink in a moving car if you're not driving).

WYSIWIG is just as lax. Both get people a tad upset however.


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Polonius wrote:Public intoxication isn't illegal everywhere. Ohio it's only if also disorderly, same with Missouri (where you can also drink in a moving car if you're not driving).

Updated and Edit:
Nope apparently there aren't any St. Louis laws either. I wouldn't advise testing it out though.

Yup. Different places and groups have different standards. At many events (I've seen it a lot at Indy Warhammer GTs, less at 40k events, but certainly some) drinking and gaming is commonplace. I agree that most folks are cool with it, as long as the person is able to focus on the game and stay clear, coherent, and pleasant. And preferably share with me.

Unless you have a Dwarf army how is this discussion of public drunkeness related to WYSIWYG?

Gornall wrote:Unless you have a Dwarf army how is this discussion of public drunkeness related to WYSIWYG?

First year at Adepticon---during the team tournament our Ork Green Tide opponents introduced themselves, then promptly offered us a beer from their cooler. In my experience, the correlation between alcohol and Ork players is at least on par with Dwarf players (along with facial hair).

Thats where the "Waugh" came from.

Frazzled wrote:

Polonius wrote:Public intoxication isn't illegal everywhere. Ohio it's only if also disorderly, same with Missouri (where you can also drink in a moving car if you're not driving).

I am sure you're right P. I'll rephrase. In probably every jurisdiction I'd be in, there is such.

I guess in that instance I'd just get the TO to throw you out. If they didn't I'd just blatantly cheat (as in "hey look over there!" and then make your greater demon disappear) and make fun of you.

So...what I got out of this is that you're spiteful, petty and would intentionally cheat to ruin someone's day? What's having a beer compared to having to face *that* in a tournament.


*EDIT* And I've been drinking at GTs since I started them. I pretty much always offer my opponent some of whatever I'm having. If they're of age. If there's no open bar / drinking policy in the event, then I'll do so discreetly.

The only time I've ever gotten in trouble for drinking at a store was once when I wasn't actually drinking at the store. But instead of asking me, they presumed that I was based on an exchanged joke with another player.

Player A: "Where's your bottle of Captain, Dash?"
Dash: "Ah, hiding in my pepsi bottle today. Don't want all the kids in here seeing a bad influence."

Post Tournament TO: Let me remind all players that this is a children-friendly store and that alcohol is not permitted. Dash, you're not welcome back here again."

I think the crux of the drinking issue here is that folks have different definitions of "drunk."

Dashofpepper wrote:
So...what I got out of this is that you're spiteful, petty and would intentionally cheat to ruin someone's day? What's having a beer compared to having to face *that* in a tournament.

What? I see no reason to change my every day behavior, just because the other opponent is drunk.


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"Hey look over there!" (drunk opponent's demon prince disappears)

"Wa idnt seenuthn"

"Hey there it is again!" (drunk opponent's entire left flank disappears)

"Wa????"

"There! Look!" (switches places with a bystander)

"Wa whooo wa..."

"Hey! look out! You're on fire! Quick run to the bathroom and put yourself out in the sink!!! HURRRY!!!!"

Drunk opponent stumbles to bathroom

Frazzled grabs his cooler of booze, meanders to TO and tells him he just masssacred his opponent, and wanders off to the local sports bar.

Dashofpepper wrote: If there's no open bar / drinking policy in the event, then I'll do so discreetly.

I was with you up until that line Dash. If there's a no drinking policy at the event, your solution shouldn't be to drink discreetly, it should be to comply with the event rules - which is largely what everything in this thread is about.

If the event allows it, by all means have a beer. If the event doesn't allow it, respect that too.

whitedragon wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:
Well...one is against the rules of the event. One is not.

Actually, this thread wouldn't be 8 pages if it was that simple. WYSIWIG is not as cut and dry or RAW tight as you would like to believe.

That is exactly the point I have been trying to present.

Dashofpepper wrote:I think the crux of the drinking issue here is that folks have different definitions of "drunk."

Replace "drinking/drunk" with "WYSIWYG" and it still works... Some draw the line at wargear, some at bits, and some at paintjob. Until GW clarifies what they mean by WYSIWYG I know how my Blue Angels feel...

Dashofpepper wrote:Janthkin: You're presuming that someone drinking isn't giving you their undivided attention. Why? I bet that half the people there hung over from the previous night are not giving you undivided attention. And you're using assumptions.

Yes. Yes, I am. But they are assumptions based on a fair number of years of seeing drunken people (from college onwards), and there are very few situations where I want to engage in any sort of coordinated activity with one. Hanging out & talking? Drink away. At a bar? Absolutely, get your drunk on (provided you've made arrangements for transportation).

Playing 40k in a tournament? I'd rather not.

I'm also going to make assumptions if my opponent shows up reeking of illicit substances, and I'm not going to feel bad about that either. And I'll be similarly annoyed if they wander off from our game, or spend much of it texting or talking on the phone. Those latter cases, at least, I can politely ask them to stop; it's a little hard to politely ask the drunk to be, well, not.

Where exactly is being Drunk in public illegal? No where I have lived, for sure. Drunk _AND_ Disorderly? Sure. But thats for people who can't hold theor booze. You guys would not make it five minutes at the Quake City Rumble with that attitude.

If someone is being an ass while they are drunk, then they deserve to get disciplined, but thats no different than being an ass while sober.

Phazael wrote:Where exactly is being Drunk in public illegal? No where I have lived, for sure. Drunk _AND_ Disorderly? Sure. But thats for people who can't hold theor booze. You guys would not make it five minutes at the Quake City Rumble with that attitude.

If someone is being an ass while they are drunk, then they deserve to get disciplined, but thats no different than being an ass while sober.

Well, one place it isn't legal is in...California, where the Quake City Rumble is held I believe:

California Penal Code 647(f) prohibits being "drunk in public". Simply put, you are "drunk in public" under California law if your level of intoxication makes you unable to exercise care for your safety or for the safety of others, or your level of intoxication interferes with, obstructs, or prevents others from using streets, sidewalks, or other "public ways".

The difference is when you're in at the event, you're aren't really in "public" persay

A lot of places:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_intoxication#United_States

Also
" California's drunk in public law is typical of those around the country. California Penal Code Section 647 (f) provides that it is illegal to be in any public place under the influence of intoxicating liquor (or combination of liquor and drugs), in such a condition that he or she is unable to exercise care for his or her own safety or the safety of others, or by reason of his or her being under the influence of intoxicating liquor (or drugs), interferes with or obstructs or prevents the free use of any street, sidewalk, or other public way."


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Ninja'd

targetawg wrote:

Phazael wrote:Where exactly is being Drunk in public illegal? No where I have lived, for sure. Drunk _AND_ Disorderly? Sure. But thats for people who can't hold theor booze. You guys would not make it five minutes at the Quake City Rumble with that attitude.

If someone is being an ass while they are drunk, then they deserve to get disciplined, but thats no different than being an ass while sober.

Well, one place it isn't legal is in...California, where the Quake City Rumble is held I believe:

California Penal Code 647(f) prohibits being "drunk in public". Simply put, you are "drunk in public" under California law if your level of intoxication makes you unable to exercise care for your safety or for the safety of others, or your level of intoxication interferes with, obstructs, or prevents others from using streets, sidewalks, or other "public ways".

The difference is when you're in at the event, you're aren't really in "public" persay

Well, its a public event at a public accomodation, so yea I wouldn't test that theory.