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I'm surprised about the level of uprightness here. Long as your opponent isn't belligerent, why does it matter?

I wonder if it's just a "US" thing. I wonder what our friends with European flags think.

Polonius wrote:Public intoxication isn't illegal everywhere. Ohio it's only if also disorderly, same with Missouri (where you can also drink in a moving car if you're not driving).

Nope apparently there aren't any St. Louis laws either. I wouldn't advise testing it out though.

Too late




Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:I'm surprised about the level of uprightness here. Long as your opponent isn't belligerent, why does it matter?

I wonder if it's just a "US" thing. I wonder what our friends with European flags think.

it's been my experience that Europeans are more comfortable with casual drinking.

Drinking is not the same as being drunk.

Few cultures are horribly excited about drunk people at events that aren't intended for drunkenness.

Polonius wrote:

Polonius wrote:Public intoxication isn't illegal everywhere. Ohio it's only if also disorderly, same with Missouri (where you can also drink in a moving car if you're not driving).

Nope apparently there aren't any St. Louis laws either. I wouldn't advise testing it out though.

Too late

I've already got too much heat on me anyway driving around town that I just don't press my luck.

Polonius wrote:it's been my experience that Europeans are more comfortable with casual drinking.

Drinking is not the same as being drunk.

Few cultures are horribly excited about drunk people at events that aren't intended for drunkenness.

And that's it in a nutshell. I don't mind drinking while playing; I'll often buy my opponent a beer (even when it's horribly overpriced hotel beer). It's not only social, it's also a good muscle relaxant (which is a good thing, after hours of standing hunched over a gaming table). Obvious drunks, though, annoy me.

And unlike a disdain for blue shirts, judging from the responses in this thread, it appears to be a common feeling.

Redbeard wrote:

Deepeyes wrote:I only stuck it on for aesthetic reasons. I thought it looked cool . Is there anything that could cause instant death to mesphiston?

A non-exhaustive list would include:
Force Weapons, D-cannons, Wraithcannons, Direswords, Skulltaker, Blissgivers, C'Tan Phase Swords, Boneswords, and any D-strength weapons.

To make it a little more exhaustive, don't forget Boxcars on a Shokk attack gun.

Polonius wrote:it's been my experience that Europeans are more comfortable with casual drinking.

Drinking is not the same as being drunk.

Few cultures are horribly excited about drunk people at events that aren't intended for drunkenness.

Exactly. There is a big difference between drinking and drunk. Not to pick on Dash, but if you read through his tales of conquest he very much jumps back and forth over the line. Being drunk is the part that pretty much everyone has come out against and not just having a couple drinks.

I don't personally drink and don't mind if my opponent does*. If they are visibly intoxicated, I will probably won't be too happy about it though. I'm there to play a game, not deal with a drunk guy.

*Guardian Games in Portland has a bar in one of their gaming rooms. At the last tournament I played at there, you could choose to play in the wet or dry room and get beers during a game. During one of my games, I bought my opponent a beer after doing some really mean things in game.

daedalus wrote:I'm surprised about the level of uprightness here. Long as your opponent isn't belligerent, why does it matter?

I wonder if it's just a "US" thing. I wonder what our friends with European flags think.

I personaly don't have a problem with it. I would probably prefer it if my oponant was not absolutly wasted, but if they were i'd still play on. The only time it would become a problem is if they were agresive or insulting. So yeah funny drunk is fine, nasty drunk gtfo.

I think generaly people in my neck of the woods are very casual towards drinking. It seems to go well with most pass times.

Anvildude wrote:
To make it a little more exhaustive, don't forget Boxcars on a Shokk attack gun.

Not ID, technically, but Jaws and the new Warp Vortex thingy.

And not everybody handles their liquor the same way. I was in a frat in college, and then went through law school. I've seen enough functioning alcoholics to not disbelieve anybody's claims regarding ability to drink.

Doesn't mean they aren't annoying though.

Someone who is disrupting your game should get you to call over a TO. Whether its slow playing, cheating, extra dice, extra inches, rules lawyering, trying to exploit a loophole, yelling, or being disorderly / being a bad sport.

None of those things require booze to accomplish. If the cause of those of those issues is booze, it doesn't change the fact that you should still get a judge/TO involved.

The reality is this: *I* drink. I don't drink beer, I drink liquor. Most of my opponents accept some of my rum. Blackmoor at the SoCal Slaughter in Space didn't drink with me because he doesn't drink. Stelek didn't have a drink with me at the Nova Open because he doesn't drink.

Phazeal has seen me as toasted at an event as I've ever been. And I was toasted on the top table during the last game. Everyone was laughing during the award ceremony, so I presume I was slurring my words. I doubt he got any complaints about me drinking though

Drinking != bad behavior
Drinking can cause bad behavior.
Being a TFG can also cause bad behavior.

But drinking and bad behavior don't walk hand in hand. If I were to play against someone offended that I was drinking during our game at a tournament - simply for the fact that I'm imbibing without causation, I'd probably be even more brazen about it because they were being such a prude.

Dashofpepper wrote:But drinking and bad behavior don't walk hand in hand. If I were to play against someone offended that I was drinking during our game at a tournament - simply for the fact that I'm imbibing without causation, I'd probably be even more brazen about it because they were being such a prude.

Way to negate the first sentence and prove everyone else's point.

Dashofpepper wrote:Someone who is disrupting your game should get you to call over a TO. Whether its slow playing, cheating, extra dice, extra inches, rules lawyering, trying to exploit a loophole, yelling, or being disorderly / being a bad sport.

None of those things require booze to accomplish. If the cause of those of those issues is booze, it doesn't change the fact that you should still get a judge/TO involved.

The reality is this: *I* drink. I don't drink beer, I drink liquor. Most of my opponents accept some of my rum. Blackmoor at the SoCal Slaughter in Space didn't drink with me because he doesn't drink. Stelek didn't have a drink with me at the Nova Open because he doesn't drink.

Phazeal has seen me as toasted at an event as I've ever been. And I was toasted on the top table during the last game. Everyone was laughing during the award ceremony, so I presume I was slurring my words. I doubt he got any complaints about me drinking though

Drinking != bad behavior
Drinking can cause bad behavior.
Being a TFG can also cause bad behavior.

But drinking and bad behavior don't walk hand in hand. If I were to play against someone offended that I was drinking during our game at a tournament - simply for the fact that I'm imbibing without causation, I'd probably be even more brazen about it because they were being such a prude.

I'd proffer if you've been asked not to come back to tourneys again because of it, there's an issue. I've not met you so don't know to what level you're talking about. But if I am facing a drunk across from me one of us is leaving and I can bet it won't be me.

Frazzled wrote:I'd proffer if you've been asked not to come back to tourneys again because of it, there's an issue.

To be fair to Dash, (according to his side of things) he wasn't actually drinking at that tourney. He made a silly joke and the TO thought he was serious, so banned him.

pretre wrote:

Frazzled wrote:I'd proffer if you've been asked not to come back to tourneys again because of it, there's an issue.

To be fair to Dash, (according to his side of things) he wasn't actually drinking at that tourney. He made a silly joke and the TO thought he was serious, so banned him.

Yes...reading FTW.

The *real* reason that I got banned from the store was for winning too much. I went to every tournament that they had over the course of about two years and won every single one with a single exception, large/small/regional/everything. I wasn't a local (a fact which they were oft to remind me of), I spent a few bucks here and there for paint, dice, models but didn't buy anything serious there, and they had some extremely strange house rules that were antithetical to the 40k rulebook - that were often designed intentionally to put me at a disadvantage.

Can't ban someone who is polite to a fault, pays their entry fee, plays well, and follows the rules closely. I only had one serious argument there - the tournament I didn't win - when I got house ruled on *after* my turn, for something that turned a handy win into a desperate draw. Hell, I even gave most of my prize support back to the players there - whoever placed last usually got my prize.

pretre wrote:

Frazzled wrote:I'd proffer if you've been asked not to come back to tourneys again because of it, there's an issue.

To be fair to Dash, (according to his side of things) he wasn't actually drinking at that tourney. He made a silly joke and the TO thought he was serious, so banned him.

Well he was being polite. We all know it was that whole black tar heroin thing that was the real problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like I said, I think there's a real inflection point between having a drink and being drunk.

Dashofpepper wrote:None of those things require booze to accomplish. If the cause of those of those issues is booze, it doesn't change the fact that you should still get a judge/TO involved.

The reality is this: *I* drink. I don't drink beer, I drink liquor. Most of my opponents accept some of my rum. Blackmoor at the SoCal Slaughter in Space didn't drink with me because he doesn't drink. Stelek didn't have a drink with me at the Nova Open because he doesn't drink.

Phazeal has seen me as toasted at an event as I've ever been. And I was toasted on the top table during the last game. Everyone was laughing during the award ceremony, so I presume I was slurring my words. I doubt he got any complaints about me drinking though

I was there, Dash. I wasn't laughing. I won't speak for others.

Janthkin wrote:I was there, Dash. I wasn't laughing. I won't speak for others.

Ah, we didn't play. I'm not talking about random people, I'm talking about my opponents. If you're sitting across the room watching someone have a good time and getting angry because you're a prude....oh well. And I was even kicking ass with impaired judgment. Add in a flair of self-righteousness and "How unfair!"

I spent the weekend playing 40k, making friends, having fun, sharing drinks, spending money, drinking, and generally having a great time. I made some friends, have some fond memories, enjoyed myself immensely...and could care less if someone uninvolved in my sphere of activity was turning red with disapproval.

Dashofpepper wrote:I spent the weekend playing 40k, making friends, having fun, sharing drinks, spending money, drinking, and generally having a great time. I made some friends, have some fond memories, enjoyed myself immensely...and could care less if someone uninvolved in my sphere of activity was turning red with disapproval.

Well as long as you had fun; that is all that is important...

Isn't step one to admit you have a problem? I don't think we've gotten to that step yet.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Janthkin wrote:I was there, Dash. I wasn't laughing. I won't speak for others.

Ah, we didn't play. I'm not talking about random people, I'm talking about my opponents. If you're sitting across the room watching someone have a good time and getting angry because you're a prude....oh well. And I was even kicking ass with impaired judgment. Add in a flair of self-righteousness and "How unfair!"

I spent the weekend playing 40k, making friends, having fun, sharing drinks, spending money, drinking, and generally having a great time. I made some friends, have some fond memories, enjoyed myself immensely...and could care less if someone uninvolved in my sphere of activity was turning red with disapproval.

You asked me specifically, several times, why I didn't like playing with drunk people. I responded, I believe courteously. I let you bring up the SiS first, as I wasn't trying to make this into any sort of personal discussion. And at the end, all you've got left is insults?

*sigh*

Wow I didn't mean to derail the entire thread, my apologies.

Off topic, I must say I wouldn't want to play with someone who is drunk, i.e. slurring and unable to properly communicate. Someone who has had a drink or two but is not impaired in any noticeable way would not bother me at all.

Back on topic. WYSIWYG only matters when it comes to weapons and wargear for me. If your playing Ultramarines as GK they better have the properly modeled armament so I don't have to remember which squad of bolter marines are Purifiers and which squad of bolter marines are Interceptors etc. If you bought the GK codex with the intent of hopping your CSMs, which were once Vanilla Marines, then Space Wolves, and now Blood Angels over to the GK codex then sorry you'll need to do some conversion work. A Heavy Bolter is NOT a Psycannon and at a major tournament I would take issue with you attempting to do that.

The argument that all helmets, chest pieces, heads etc. would need to be chapter/legion specific is asinine. The weaponry and Wargear are what matters.

Again my apologies for derailing the thread entirely.

So if Weapons and Wargear are all that matter, could I use my Orks as Space Wolves?

The boyz would have slugga/choppa (bolt pistol/ccw) or shoota (bolt gun).

I could use Rokkit boyz for Long Fangs (missile launcher).

I could use a Warboss as my HQ with a Power Fist.

I could use Wierdboys for Rune Priests.

I could modify my Trukks to have a Las/Plas weapon loadout to count as razorbacks.

Would you be ok with this?

Also, the Orky SM army posted earlier? Brilliant, I totally love it.

Heffling wrote:So if Weapons and Wargear are all that matter, could I use my Orks as Space Wolves?

The boyz would have slugga/choppa (bolt pistol/ccw) or shoota (bolt gun).

I could use Rokkit boyz for Long Fangs (missile launcher).

I could use a Warboss as my HQ with a Power Fist.

I could use Wierdboys for Rune Priests.

I could modify my Trukks to have a Las/Plas weapon loadout to count as razorbacks.

Would you be ok with this?

Also, the Orky SM army posted earlier? Brilliant, I totally love it.

Yea, actually if they were cool looking and easily identifiable.

Heffling wrote:So if Weapons and Wargear are all that matter, could I use my Orks as Space Wolves?

The boyz would have slugga/choppa (bolt pistol/ccw) or shoota (bolt gun).

I could use Rokkit boyz for Long Fangs (missile launcher).

I could use a Warboss as my HQ with a Power Fist.

I could use Wierdboys for Rune Priests.

I could modify my Trukks to have a Las/Plas weapon loadout to count as razorbacks.

Would you be ok with this?

Also, the Orky SM army posted earlier? Brilliant, I totally love it.

Weapons and Wargear are all that matters within the appropriate range. Ork models are not the appropriate model range for a Space Marine army. Likewise an Ork army can not, nor should it, be comprised of 90 Khorne Berzerkers as Slugga Choppa boyz and Terminators as Mega Armored Nobz. SM are not the appropriate model range for Orks either.

I would be ok with your Ork army in a League/pick up game/small local tournament but not a major GT.

Heffling wrote:So if Weapons and Wargear are all that matter, could I use my Orks as Space Wolves?

The boyz would have slugga/choppa (bolt pistol/ccw) or shoota (bolt gun).

I could use Rokkit boyz for Long Fangs (missile launcher).

I could use a Warboss as my HQ with a Power Fist.

I could use Wierdboys for Rune Priests.

I could modify my Trukks to have a Las/Plas weapon loadout to count as razorbacks.

Would you be ok with this?

Also, the Orky SM army posted earlier? Brilliant, I totally love it.

You'd want to make sure that they're uparmored, both the boys and the trukks. AV11 tank is different from AV10 open topped.

OverwatchCNC wrote:
Weapons and Wargear are all that matters within the appropriate range. Ork models are not the appropriate model range for a Space Marine army. Likewise an Ork army can not, nor should it, be comprised of 90 Khorne Berzerkers as Slugga Choppa boyz and Terminators as Mega Armored Nobz. SM are not the appropriate model range for Orks either.

I would be ok with your Ork army in a League/pick up game/small local tournament but not a major GT.

GW sells different box sets and upgrade sprues for Codex: Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, etc. What makes them more in the "appropriate model range" for each different army and codex than orks?

Heffling wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:
Weapons and Wargear are all that matters within the appropriate range. Ork models are not the appropriate model range for a Space Marine army. Likewise an Ork army can not, nor should it, be comprised of 90 Khorne Berzerkers as Slugga Choppa boyz and Terminators as Mega Armored Nobz. SM are not the appropriate model range for Orks either.

I would be ok with your Ork army in a League/pick up game/small local tournament but not a major GT.

GW sells different box sets and upgrade sprues for Codex: Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, etc. What makes them more in the "appropriate model range" for each different army and codex than orks?

Race.

You've obviously never read Orkhammer, have you?

Anvildude wrote:You've obviously never read Orkhammer, have you?

Fluff does not enter into rules.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

Anvildude wrote:You've obviously never read Orkhammer, have you?

Fluff does not enter into rules.

But race is ENTIRELY fluff. There is absolutely nothing in the unit entries for Space Wolves that state they are Codex: Space Marines, nor that they are Human.

Additionally, by that arguement, I could use Imperial Guardsman as Space Wolves, as both are human based and imperium.

Heffling wrote:But race is ENTIRELY fluff. There is absolutely nothing in the unit entries for Space Wolves that state they are Codex: Space Marines, nor that they are Human.

Additionally, by that arguement, I could use Imperial Guardsman as Space Wolves, as both are human based and imperium.

Sure, if those guardsmen were wearing power armor. We already had this debate a few pages back in regards to the BA orks army. You might want to go check on that before continuing.