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blasto0341 wrote:Pick up some sculpting tools and get to work! Well, all I have to say is, if some small bubbles and "having to return" an item is ruining your hobby well it's time to find a new one. Hahaha, people whine about GW and STILL buy from them. WTF?!? why oh why I ask!!!!?!?!?!

blasto.

Look at the VERY first page of this thread.

Look at that Storm Bolter.

Tell me that is not a concern. The top half is sheared off and deformed. Say what you will about metal but I have never seen it turn out that bad.

The OP wasn't reviewing GW's generous return policy

blasto0341 wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:

blasto0341 wrote:How many times have you gone back to a store to return something? Why is it such a shock that a "new" item hits the shelf and some are not perfect. FFS give them some room to fix the initial errors. Ya'll act like you've never returned anything, or encountered a flaw in a product.

A product being pushed as heavily as Finecast should have a bit more quality control really. If this is their finest quality material with super-detailed results then you'd think they'd put a bit more effort into some of it.

So far the miscasts seen or heard about have been quite severe - not repairable minor defects but whole parts deformed. Not the best way to start a line off.

C'mon man, how can you blame GW, are you at the factory seeing that they don't have this quality control? I bet all my orks they have it, but the jackass doing the job missed some. Are you really smashing GW and not the lazy workers who have jobs to look at a conveuyer belt full of plastic army men waiting for a mistake to roll by? That is more likely than GW dropping the ball on their biggest release so far.

Uh how can you blame GW if their employees aren't doing their job? Is this a serious question? Of course they are to blame, they produce it, and they manage their workers and are supposed to make sure they are making a quality product and checking for defects.

Darth Bob wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
. . . what will happen if you leave your carry case full of minis in your car on a hot summer's day?

That tends to be a bad idea in general. I've seen plastic models get warped from being left in cars during hot summer days, not to mention paint chips off/rubs off metal more easily if it's been left in the heat for too long.

This is a lot different than pieces obtaining the flexibility of "spaghetti." Seriously, I've had my DE army in the trunk of my car pretty much constantly for about 5 years. I do have some pieces that have warped on the plastics, but not that significantly. I've never had them hot enough that I could deform the models with my hands.

If a hair dryer can get a Finecast model piece so flexible in only "ten seconds" that you need "extreme care" due to how "mushy" the piece gets, I could envision pulling your carrying case out of your trunk in the middle of July to find a bunch of unrecognizable lumps where your models were. (The quotes are terms used by the OP when describing his experiences while using his girlfriend's hair dryer on the model.)

My only point is this: Keep your Finecast models in a climate controlled area, just to be safe.

Calm... I am calm, I am actually LMAO over here. The finecast stuff has not even been released yet hahaha. Yet, everyone seems to have semi busted finecast. Seems to me the reason they have miscast ones or w/e are because they got them second hand as they were most likely thrown away to be disposed of. I could be wrong, but as I read it says they are to be released on Saturday. I also am not being sarcastic, c'mon people it's common sense, you buy hundreds of dollars worth of plastic army men and leave them in hot storage areas? Also boasting about how easy it is to cast resin, well I have done it and it is not that easy.

blasto0341 wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:

blasto0341 wrote:How many times have you gone back to a store to return something? Why is it such a shock that a "new" item hits the shelf and some are not perfect. FFS give them some room to fix the initial errors. Ya'll act like you've never returned anything, or encountered a flaw in a product.

A product being pushed as heavily as Finecast should have a bit more quality control really. If this is their finest quality material with super-detailed results then you'd think they'd put a bit more effort into some of it.

So far the miscasts seen or heard about have been quite severe - not repairable minor defects but whole parts deformed. Not the best way to start a line off.

C'mon man, how can you blame GW, are you at the factory seeing that they don't have this quality control? I bet all my orks they have it, but the jackass doing the job missed some. Are you really smashing GW and not the lazy workers who have jobs to look at a conveuyer belt full of plastic army men waiting for a mistake to roll by? That is more likely than GW dropping the ball on their biggest release so far.

Here's the thing. I'm a professional QC guy. Based on the pictures and descriptions coming from multiple sources, they did drop the ball. Casts like the one in the OP, or the ones described in the painting and modelling forum should never have made it out of the factory. With the quantity and concentrations of bad casts, any acceptable sampling methodology should have caught them. The fact that this many bad casts are out means that QC was asleep at the wheel, or someone in management made the genius call of, "ship it, if they don't like it, they can send it back."

This is a hilarious thread. Really it is.

Here's the company line to questions asked via Customer Service and Facebook: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16800012a

If this has been posted, please delete; thanks!!!!

sharkticon wrote:

blasto0341 wrote:

DarkStarSabre wrote:

blasto0341 wrote:How many times have you gone back to a store to return something? Why is it such a shock that a "new" item hits the shelf and some are not perfect. FFS give them some room to fix the initial errors. Ya'll act like you've never returned anything, or encountered a flaw in a product.

A product being pushed as heavily as Finecast should have a bit more quality control really. If this is their finest quality material with super-detailed results then you'd think they'd put a bit more effort into some of it.

So far the miscasts seen or heard about have been quite severe - not repairable minor defects but whole parts deformed. Not the best way to start a line off.

C'mon man, how can you blame GW, are you at the factory seeing that they don't have this quality control? I bet all my orks they have it, but the jackass doing the job missed some. Are you really smashing GW and not the lazy workers who have jobs to look at a conveuyer belt full of plastic army men waiting for a mistake to roll by? That is more likely than GW dropping the ball on their biggest release so far.

Here's the thing. I'm a professional QC guy. Based on the pictures and descriptions coming from multiple sources, they did drop the ball. Casts like the one in the OP, or the ones described in the painting and modelling forum should never have made it out of the factory. With the quantity and concentrations of bad casts, any acceptable sampling methodology should have caught them. The fact that this many bad casts are out means that QC was asleep at the wheel, or someone in management made the genius call of, "ship it, if they don't like it, they can send it back."

Sounds like something one of the managers at my work would say...

It's hilarious because 50% of the questions asked were about prices and why they are going up despite costs going down.....

filbert wrote:

blasto0341 wrote:Simple fix, don't buy GW then lol. Pick up some sculpting tools and get to work! Well, all I have to say is, if some small bubbles and "having to return" an item is ruining your hobby well it's time to find a new one. Hahaha, people whine about GW and STILL buy from them. WTF?!? why oh why I ask!!!!?!?!?!

Not sure where anyone noted that miscasts were 'ruining their hobby' and I'm not sure where you think all this rage is coming from. All I have seen thus far about Finecast have been some legitimate concerns given the pictorial evidence we have seen thus far. Whether those concerns are borne out in the long run remains to be seen. As to acting on those concerns, well that's kind of what the debate is turning to; the fact is that if such miscasts are prevalent then people will stop buying GW, as a significant drop in quality versus price would affect any business.

You need to calm down a bit, think about what you are saying and perhaps try and engage people a little more politely if you really want people to not write off your points at face value.

Too late.

Holy crap people the Finecast is not released yet hahaha. The mini in the pic could be from a pile the quality control set aside as "not good" and someone got ahold of one. How else are these people getting finecast so early??

yakface wrote:


Anyway, given that finecast models are short in supply and being rushed as fast as possible to retailers to fill the holes in the miniature lines, I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that initially there are more miscasts. I would expect that once stocks have been properly replenished and production of the miniatures reverts to its standard levels that you'd hope for a drop in the number of defective minis produced...not to mention that experience with the casting material can only help as time goes on as well.

But that's part of the problem, is it not? When you have to start defending a 'superior' product before it's even hit the shelves. Why does it need defense? We're paying more, we've been told that it is a better product and that it'll revolutionize the industry and yet, the first few public examples we've seen are miscasts or deformed? Where is the PR? Where is the quality control?

And to speak to your point, didn't they create the problem themselves? If they had to rush to get Finecast out (making it somehow okay that they boxed miscasts for sale) to fill in missing models from their miniature line, why are the models missing? Did they have to get rid of the metal molds for the finecast ones? Did they use the metal molds for the finecast ones? These are not rhetorical questions - I'm truly interested in understanding.

With bad press comes these sorts of questions. A lot of people are defending these miscasts. Why? Why is it acceptable at all? If you bought a car from Honda and it was the new series of Accord, but your wheels fell off, would you say, "Well, it's the new version, maybe they won't all be like mine!" And be fine with it? Just because the may improve and may be fine in a month or two is no excuse for the lack of quality control and customer care displayed here.

And you know what could fix it? GW explaining their decisions. Any sort of customer interaction. Why did the metal models have to be pulled so quickly? Did it cause the Finecast production to be rushed? If so, is that the reason for miscasts? How would you have done it differently? But instead, once again, they'll let the internet talk for them.

blasto0341 wrote:Holy crap people the Finecast is not released yet hahaha. The mini in the pic could be from a pile the quality control set aside as "not good" and someone got ahold of one. How else are these people getting finecast so early??

A store started selling them early? The stores have them already, they just haven't been put on display. Disregarding street date is a time honored tradition for small retailers.

Ninja'd by Sharkticon.

Stores already have them, Blasto0341. They just can't sell them until the release date.

blasto0341 wrote:Holy crap people the Finecast is not released yet hahaha. The mini in the pic could be from a pile the quality control set aside as "not good" and someone got ahold of one. How else are these people getting finecast so early??

Really? I guess they go ahead and package the ones that they don't intend to sell? And ship them too? Yeah, that's the perfect way to keep the "pile from quality control" out of the loop.

blasto0341 wrote:Holy crap people the Finecast is not released yet hahaha. The mini in the pic could be from a pile the quality control set aside as "not good" and someone got ahold of one. How else are these people getting finecast so early??

Um...because they were shipped early enough that they would be in stores prior to the release date, and someone who has access to those recently arrived shipments decided to post about them? Which is pretty much how the OP stated he got access to it....

sharkticon wrote:

Here's the thing. I'm a professional QC guy. Based on the pictures and descriptions coming from multiple sources, they did drop the ball. Casts like the one in the OP, or the ones described in the painting and modelling forum should never have made it out of the factory. With the quantity and concentrations of bad casts, any acceptable sampling methodology should have caught them. The fact that this many bad casts are out means that QC was asleep at the wheel, or someone in management made the genius call of, "ship it, if they don't like it, they can send it back."

They had absolutely no reason to think that they wouldn't get away with it. FW has put out just as shabby products (truely finely sculpted yet cast by a half blind drunkard) with little to no effect other than an occasional complaint that they send out a part for. The gaming community whines about it but that doesn't stop the limited subset of customers who keep buying their stuff and fixing it on their own generally.

Saldiven wrote:This actually worried me. If a few minutes under a hair dryer can make a piece "spaghetti" like, then what will happen if you leave your carry case full of minis in your car on a hot summer's day?

Sounds like we better be sure not to make that mistake, huh? Glad I'm aware ahead of time, because I've been known to leave my minis in my car for weeks at a time.

I'm surprised you haven't already had issues with leaving your minis in the car. I've seen a great many posts on here about current plastics warping from even a day in the trunk, and I never leave mine in the car; this changes nothing for me.

On topic, it's nice to see with moving to Forge World class prices, they've also adopted Forge World class quality.

Ouze wrote:

Saldiven wrote:This actually worried me. If a few minutes under a hair dryer can make a piece "spaghetti" like, then what will happen if you leave your carry case full of minis in your car on a hot summer's day?

Sounds like we better be sure not to make that mistake, huh? Glad I'm aware ahead of time, because I've been known to leave my minis in my car for weeks at a time.

I'm surprised you haven't already had issues with leaving your minis in the car. I've seen a great many posts on here about current plastics warping from even a day in the trunk, and I never leave mine in the car; this changes nothing for me.

On topic, it's nice to see with moving to Forge World class prices, they've also adopted Forge World class quality.

I don't really think this is a big, big issue about Finecast; I just kinda meant it as a warning to be on the safe side. It would suck to have your minis totally wrecked by leaving them in your car for an hour while you were eating or something. Like I said, just to be on the safe side, keep the Finecast minis somewhere climate controlled.

Ouze wrote:
On topic, it's nice to see with moving to Forge World class prices, they've also adopted Forge World class quality.

I know right? How are you going to know if a recaster sells you an inferior product on eBay now? They look like GW's regular production!

nectarprime wrote:I live in Washington and still I would never store my army in my car. I would just take it into my office. Why wouldn't anybody else? Embarrassed? Does your army box or bag say "NERD HOBBY SUPPLIES" on it or something?

Because it looks like a gun case and I work in a factory.

kronk wrote:

nectarprime wrote:I live in Washington and still I would never store my army in my car. I would just take it into my office. Why wouldn't anybody else? Embarrassed? Does your army box or bag say "NERD HOBBY SUPPLIES" on it or something?

Because it looks like a gun case and I work in a factory.

I'm just too darn lazy.

Saldiven wrote:

kronk wrote:

nectarprime wrote:I live in Washington and still I would never store my army in my car. I would just take it into my office. Why wouldn't anybody else? Embarrassed? Does your army box or bag say "NERD HOBBY SUPPLIES" on it or something?

Because it looks like a gun case and I work in a factory.

I'm just too darn lazy.

What state do you live in? I hadn't considered living someplace like Washington, where it has both mild winters and summers. I've only lived in NY and Iowa, which have similar seasonal extremes.

Still, I'd worry someone would break into my trunk and steal them, especially if I kept them in a gun case like Kronk.

kronk wrote:

nectarprime wrote:I live in Washington and still I would never store my army in my car. I would just take it into my office. Why wouldn't anybody else? Embarrassed? Does your army box or bag say "NERD HOBBY SUPPLIES" on it or something?

Because it looks like a gun case and I work in a factory.

I work in a factory too. Doesn't matter if it looks like a gun case because it IS NOT A GUN

I have one of these:



and one of these:



I have a 1/4 mile walk from the parking lot to my office in the plant. No way in hell I'd carry either to my office. It's a moot point, though. I just keep my stuff at home and go get it when I want to play.

So. . .how 'bout those new 'Finecast' models?

I hear they're pretty bad

What does it say when you've seen it all before?

"Like 80% of the models....." yadda yada yadda.

"New and improved..."

"Tastes like chicken..."

Fine Cost, or WTH they want to call it isn't anything special. Its looking more and more like that soft assed plastic they make those green army men out of more and more that I see it, and the only thing "Impressive" is the cost.

That packaging is gak.

That material is gak.

The sculpt quality, even if it IS new... is gak.

Even when Legion got it, ( and thanks a ton for the review, It was as objective as I can honestly see it. kudos to you. ) It is not to the standard of quality that we would expect those basic of the basic sculpts. Apologise for them all you want to, that stuff is a turd in gaks clothing, and GW should have held fast and tried the process with three or four test run models from both the fantasy and 40K line to work out the gaks and laughs before pulling th stuff they did. This is a bone head play of all bonehead plays, new process or not.

This IS EXACTLY THE SAME BS THAT MONGOOSE PULLED WITH THIER FIGURES. even all the while pulling the wool over people eyes and telling them that they were all wrong and to trust them. I see the exactly the same thing going on with this.


It's Deja Vu all over again...

There have been some interesting arguments put forth by Blasto0341. I'm going to try and explain to you why i think you're wrong, using an analogy. (I've omitted some of your many unnecessary "LOL's" and "hehehehs").

Original quote:

blasto0341 wrote:Simple fix, don't buy GW then lol. Pick up some sculpting tools and get to work! Well, all I have to say is, if some small bubbles and "having to return" an item is ruining your hobby well it's time to find a new one. Hahaha, people whine about GW and STILL buy from them. WTF?!? why oh why I ask!!!!?!?!?!

If GWS was your ISP:

Simple fix, don't buy internet service then lol. Get your own copper wire and get to work! Well, all I have to say is, if not having any internet is ruining your hobby well it's time to find a new one.

Would you accept this if your internet was out, and you called and got this response?

If GWS was your local diner:

Simple fix, don't buy food then lol. Go home, get a skillet and hamburger patties and get to work! Well, all I have to say is, if burnt food is ruining your dinner well it's time to find a new one.

Would you walk out without demanding your money back, if your diner burned your food and then gave you this response?

Original quote:

blasto0341 wrote:C'mon man, how can you blame GW, are you at the factory seeing that they don't have this quality control? I bet all my orks they have it, but the jackass doing the job missed some. Are you really smashing GW and not the lazy workers who have jobs to look at a conveuyer belt full of plastic army men waiting for a mistake to roll by?

If GWS was a car manufacturer:

C'mon man, how can you blame Lexus, are you at the factory seeing that they don't have this quality control? I bet all my orks they have it, but the guy putting the wheels on, who we hired and pay to put the wheels on, passing the cost along to you missed some. Are you really smashing Lexus, the people you gave your money to for a car and not the lazy workers that we hired to build you car to look at a conveuyer belt full of wheels waiting for a mistake to roll by?

Would you accept this argument if you paid a premium price for a Lexus, and then the wheels fell off after you started to drive it off the dealship lot? Are you making a good faith argument that if you go to Best Buy and get a TV, and they sell you a box full of broken glass, the manager telling you "man, I don't know what goes on in the factory, it's not like I'm working back there watching them" would be, to you, an acceptable response?