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So it's like every area of military tech with the Imperium, generally better than what we have.

Nah, only the imperial air force. I think you forgot some of them are also capable of interstellar flight.

gendoikari87 wrote:

See how can you say outdated? If the weapons are outdated how come we don't have any lasguns? You don't know what the exact specification are, how they perform or really anything. And plasma guns are highly effective in fluff, which may mean they have discovered a may to use it effectively.

Even their desriptions in the fluff show how useless they are, they're only worth using because they're cool. Otherwise the same can be done cheaper with other methods, that don't give away your position, and/or require getting close.

You call killing marines with a single shot useless? And felling most of the more powerful troops in the universe with 1 or 2 shots? Plasmaguns are one of the most potent hand held weapons in the IOM, the only problem is their volatile nature.

And let's not get into what a Plasmacannon would do with any of our current tech...

Now you're doubling back on yourself and just making stuff up. But again, how do my sources contradict each other?

C.S. Goto? You have to take him if your taking black library sources. otherwise it's ALL ONLY YOUR OPINION.

gendoikari87 wrote:

So it's like every area of military tech with the Imperium, generally better than what we have.

Nah, only the imperial air force. I think you forgot some of them are also capable of interstellar flight.

Um, yeah. I'd like to see what your oh so fantastic Earth forces could do against the other races of the universe.

You call killing marines with a single shot useless? And felling most of the more powerful troops in the universe with 1 or 2 shots? Plasmaguns are one of the most potent hand held weapons in the IOM, the only problem is their volatile nature.

thank you for making my point for me. All of that can be done with disposeable RPG's or better with longer range, and also being MUCH faster than a plasma blast.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Now you're doubling back on yourself and just making stuff up. But again, how do my sources contradict each other?

C.S. Goto? You have to take him if your taking black library sources. otherwise it's ALL ONLY YOUR OPINION.

No I don't. C.S Goto is a stupidly unreliable source. Although he'd only benefit me if I did. You've failed to answer the question three time now, I'm not using C.S Goto as a source, so how can my sources contradict each other? They remain consistent.


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gendoikari87 wrote:

You call killing marines with a single shot useless? And felling most of the more powerful troops in the universe with 1 or 2 shots? Plasmaguns are one of the most potent hand held weapons in the IOM, the only problem is their volatile nature.

thank you for making my point for me. All of that can be done with disposeable RPG's or better with longer range, and also being MUCH faster than a plasma blast.

RPGs? Good one.

iproxtaco wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

So it's like every area of military tech with the Imperium, generally better than what we have.

Nah, only the imperial air force. I think you forgot some of them are also capable of interstellar flight.

Um, yeah. I'd like to see what your oh so fantastic Earth forces could do against the other races of the universe.

Tau, probably not a whole lot.

Eldar, Depends on if they are reasonable tacticians or utterly stupid, their tech is better though.

Orks. Psychic, hard comparison.

Tyrannids, no idea

Chaos, oh holy feth no.

Imperium ground to ground, we win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

No I don't. C.S Goto is a stupidly unreliable source. Although he'd only benefit me if I did. Although you've failed to answer the question, I'm not using C.S Goto as a source, so how can my sources contradict each other?

Still black library, any other distinction is up to opinion. Pull out some offical GW material.

gendoikari87 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

So it's like every area of military tech with the Imperium, generally better than what we have.

Nah, only the imperial air force. I think you forgot some of them are also capable of interstellar flight.

Um, yeah. I'd like to see what your oh so fantastic Earth forces could do against the other races of the universe.

Tau, probably not a whole lot.

Eldar, Depends on if they are reasonable tacticians or utterly stupid, their tech is better though.

Orks. Psychic, hard comparison.

Tyrannids, no idea

Chaos, oh holy feth no.

Imperium ground to ground, we win.

Yet the Imperium competes with all of those, and wins a good deal of the time, so your conclusion makes little sense.

No I don't. C.S Goto is a stupidly unreliable source. Although he'd only benefit me if I did. Although you've failed to answer the question, I'm not using C.S Goto as a source, so how can my sources contradict each other?

Still black library, any other distinction is up to opinion.

Doesn't matter, it's all official, and none of it is.

RPGs? Good one

they are, afterall the Gen II the imperium relies on, simply compresses a hollow cavity into a plasma, effectively being a directed plasma weapon, these however, are OLD news.

gendoikari87 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

So it's like every area of military tech with the Imperium, generally better than what we have.

Nah, only the imperial air force. I think you forgot some of them are also capable of interstellar flight.

Um, yeah. I'd like to see what your oh so fantastic Earth forces could do against the other races of the universe.

Tau, probably not a whole lot.

Eldar, Depends on if they are reasonable tacticians or utterly stupid, their tech is better though.

Orks. Psychic, hard comparison.

Tyrannids, no idea

Chaos, oh holy feth no.

Imperium ground to ground, we win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

No I don't. C.S Goto is a stupidly unreliable source. Although he'd only benefit me if I did. Although you've failed to answer the question, I'm not using C.S Goto as a source, so how can my sources contradict each other?

Still black library, any other distinction is up to opinion. Pull out some offical GW material.

We'd be crushed by all of them.
Imperium would beat us ground to ground, because by the time they get to the ground, we wont have much to fight them with due to orbital bombardments.
If all fails, Exterminatus.
There is really no way we can beat an interstellar race.

Imperium would beat us ground to ground, because by the time they get to the ground, we wont have much to fight them with due to orbital bombardments.

Only point in 3 pages that's made any sense.

Yet the Imperium competes with all of those, and wins a good deal of the time, so your conclusion makes little sense.

yeah what was the average life expectancy of the average guardsmen again? an hour?

Doesn't matter, it's all official, and none of it is.

Thank you Imperial armour IS offical and I win. Thank you. Goodbye.

1. Lasguns are cheaper to make, more reliable and have equivalent stats to an autogun, which is an assault rife.

2. What you said

gendoikari87 wrote:

Fluff comes from the rules, remember where the fluff comes from, the games.

Hence, since a heavy stubber is equal to a .50 cal. Has an ap6. Flak armor has a 5+ save. Rules to fluff, Flak armor can stop a .50 cal round. And the wears lives.

Carapace is even stronger, giving a 4+ save, which is enough to stop a bolter round.

Bolter round has an ap5. Which means it can penatrate further then a .50cal round.

So we have established that Imperial Guard armor is better than anything we have on earth.

3. All Chimeras are armed with a weapon that is stronger then a 50cal, but has same ap or better.

4. You haven't mention any anti-psyker defense. Our military will run screaming from their foxholes, trying to escape from the horrors in their head. Or get ripped to shreds by warp energy.

5. Oil. We need it for our vehicles. IoM can deny us this asset.

6. The IoM isnt stupid. They will try to annex a planet with a hospitable atmosphere. They are rare. Hence the ground invasion.

7. Earth doesnt rate space marines.

8. Where does it say an Imperial Guardsman life expectancy is an Hour?

9. Plasma is ap2. Meaning it can penetrate any bodyarmor with ease. An disposable RPG is already represented by Krak Gernades, AP4. Or the more expensive (not disposable) Krak Missile Ap3, which will be rarer due to it being more expensive

gendoikari87 wrote:

You call killing marines with a single shot useless? And felling most of the more powerful troops in the universe with 1 or 2 shots? Plasmaguns are one of the most potent hand held weapons in the IOM, the only problem is their volatile nature.

thank you for making my point for me. All of that can be done with disposeable RPG's or better with longer range, and also being MUCH faster than a plasma blast.

You are aware that plasma weapons are semi-automatic, have a good firing rate, good accuracy, and don't require reloading right? OK good, now let's see how your RPG compares...

Yeah, that's what I thought.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Imperium would beat us ground to ground, because by the time they get to the ground, we wont have much to fight them with due to orbital bombardments.

Only point in 3 pages that's made any sense.

Yeah I didn't think you were making any sense either.

Yet the Imperium competes with all of those, and wins a good deal of the time, so your conclusion makes little sense.

yeah what was the average life expectancy of the average guardsmen again? an hour?

Since they have veteran squads, pretty decent, obviously not really good. Still, if they have a fairly low life-expectancy, and are still able to compete and win against the Eldar and Chaos, they would crush us.

Doesn't matter, it's all official, and none of it is.

Thank you Imperial armour IS offical and I win. Thank you. Goodbye.

You missed my point completely. GW doesn't have an official or canon rating.

The avarage life expectancy of a green guardsmen from landing on a hostile planet to death is 14 hours, once you passed that point, the expectancy is raised by quite a lot. It seperates the boys from the men.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Yet the Imperium competes with all of those, and wins a good deal of the time, so your conclusion makes little sense.

yeah what was the average life expectancy of the average guardsmen again? an hour?

His point still stands though. The Imperium fights all of those forces, at the same time, on multiple fronts, and survives. So if you doubt Earth's effectiveness against even one of them, then you have crippled any argument that Earth could stand against the Imperium.

Soladrin wrote:The avarage life expectancy of a green guardsmen from landing on a hostile planet to death is 14 hours, once you passed that point, the expectancy is raised by quite a lot. It seperates the boys from the men.

If you're thinking of the book '15 Hours', then from what I've heard those Guardsmen were only sent there due to an admistrative error and as such is not representative of most engagements the Imperial Guard partake in.

I'd also assume that Titans can withstand nuclear weapons, for the record.

Belexar wrote:Good. So yeah, here's the deal:

Imperium forces enter orbit. The big E sends them a telephatic message to GTFO. They do. End of story.

Why was this not /thread?

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Soladrin wrote:The avarage life expectancy of a green guardsmen from landing on a hostile planet to death is 14 hours, once you passed that point, the expectancy is raised by quite a lot. It seperates the boys from the men.

If you're thinking of the book '15 Hours', then from what I've heard those Guardsmen were only sent there due to an admistrative error and as such is not representative of most engagements the Imperial Guard partake in.

I'd also assume that Titans can withstand nuclear weapons, for the record.

The Astrates can withstand a Nuclear Device.
Nuclear Weapons compared to what the imperium faces is nothing. Hell they have something more powerful. A void missile.
They have grenades that implode. We are screwed.
Their lasguns are highly effective, plus they have titans all of our vechiles are gone the minute they get out to fight. The rocket launchers they have are 50x better than ours.
Their lascannons would snipe our vechiles from far away. Our heavy weapons teams would be gone.
Our airforce would be obliterated by thunderhawks, storm ravens, thunderbolts, valkyries, vultures. There is no way we could put up a feasiable chance against a foe that can deploy rapidly anywhere.

All they do is place down a few anti air weaponry and keep a few squads of marines and guardsmen and they are set. Then all of our pentagonal leaders are gone in 30 seconds, the entire UN is devastated.

And our leadership is gone in a second as the terminators rapidly deploy along with Space marines destroying our chances of winning.

The Space marines are meant to take out leadership and high value targets. They just have to hit us where it really hurts, armories, command centers, airforce bases, and operations.

Our navy is gone once the thunderbolts are sent out. They would fly over and destroy every single naval vessel we have on the planet. Try and hit something that is going faster than a f-22 and has weapons that can bring down an entire armored army.


Also the guy who is fighting against everyone here on dakka dakka.

You obviously don't know the weapons of today. Because compared to 40k they are horrible.

Yes we do have a railgun but thats only like 3 and they can only shoot in a straight line, and even then we are screwed because we can't mount that to destroy the ships in orbit.

The imperium has nukes but they banned them.

They have stuff that does the same job but still makes the world livable.

All of you are messing the point. Earth does not rate an Space marine force. They are only used for the serious stuff. We are a single world with no space defenses and primitive technology. They'd send the Imperial Fleet and the Imperial Guard. You know the guys that actually do stuff in the Imperium, rather than just take all the credit.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:All of you are messing the point. Earth does not rate an Space marine force. They are only used for the serious stuff. We are a single world with no space defenses and primitive technology. They'd send the Imperial Fleet and the Imperial Guard. You know the guys that actually do stuff in the Imperium, rather than just take all the credit.

Yeah, but if the Earth actually had any worth without us getting owned by guardsmen, if that somehow fails (Most likely won't because the imperial army will rofl stomp us and beat us to oblivion.)

The imperial navy would fly over and our military is gone.

I think another major disadvantage for us that hasn't been addressed is our logistical/deployment disadvantage vs. the IoM.

The IoM can land virtually anywhere on the planet. From Siberia to the Gobi Desert to the Sahara to the American Midwest. Or, they land at all places simultaneously. All of these places would need garrisons because we can't simply move 100,000 troops over these massive distances overnight once an invasion is confirmed. We don't have the logistical or resource capabilities for this. The IoM would be able to chose the area of battle and then establish a beachhead before any serious counterattack could be made, then it's just a war of attrition which the IoM would undoubtedly win.

calgar 2.5 wrote:

Belexar wrote:Good. So yeah, here's the deal:

Imperium forces enter orbit. The big E sends them a telephatic message to GTFO. They do. End of story.

Why was this not /thread?

Because this is all hypothetical, and that, if this weren't hypothetical, as a paradox.

The fact that this actually turned into a full-fledged argument is hilarious. There is some world-class trollin' going on in this thread. I am duly impressed. Kudos!

We are the dark age of technology..........I don't think they'd take kindly to us so much.

There's no way in hell that Earth is currently in the Dark Age of Technology.

Titans alone grant the Imperium an effortless win.

These are machines designed to fire and withstand weaponry greater than Deathstrike Missiles, which are stronger than any weapon we have ever invented.

sfshilo wrote:We are the dark age of technology..........I don't think they'd take kindly to us so much.

We are in the beginning of the Age of Terra. The Dark Age of Technology isn't coming around for another 12,000 years. The Ruinous powers are still in their relative infancy (~600 years old), and the Eldar are still in the process of reshaping the universe in their image.

OT: I will show them the love I have put into the guard army, fall on my knees before Gaunt and beg him to let me join the ghosts, then I'll make sure I'm a funny character so that I don't get killed off. I'll be the new Milo!

Also in regard to that epic argument I had some good fun reading, in Age of Darkness/Tales of Heresy (can't remember which one), DA marines who are taken by surprise by military forces which seem pretty similar to ours lose...3 men? 5 men? who won't fight again, and roflstomp them. While we can't be sure that the enemy in that book are exactly the same as us, they seem to be quite similar from what is described, and they get curbstomped, gears style. Then they give them a second chance, everything goes to poop, and they roflstomp every spot on the world which is necessary for resistance with teleporting termies. They do this while the commanders are fighting amongst each other pretty damn openly to!

Coolyo294 wrote:There's no way in hell that Earth is currently in the Dark Age of Technology.

Yes, DAoT doesn't start until the 18th Millennium according to the 5th edition rulebook. We got quite a ways to go...