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Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

In the Beginning was the only TV movie I’d consider genuinely good, but I enjoy Thirdspace. Call to Arms seems like it could have been decent if the score were…anything else, really. Even Yakety Sax would have complimented the story and action better.

   
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Spoiler:
 Tawnis wrote:
Aash wrote:
I think the big benefit this might have over the original is filler episodes.

With tv not needing to stick to 22 episodes per season anymore and streaking series often 6-10 episodes long, the story could be told without the filler.

I rewatched B5 a couple of years ago and there are just so so many episodes with no bearing on the overarching plot, or maybe only a single scene or a couple of lines of dialogue.

It was ahead if it’s time with regard to ongoing storytelling in TV, but by modern standards it is very much very much self-contained episodes.


I both agree and disagree with this.

For season 1 especially, and some in 2, there were episodes that just didn't need to be there, ones like TKO that both didn't fit into the overall plot and were just pretty meh in general. However, I think by season 3, he'd figured out the best way to use "filler" to actually make the story and universe richer.

Just because an episode doesn't directly connect to the overarching plot, doesn't mean that it doesn't build on the characters and their relationships or build up the world they live in. Some good examples of this come in early season three. The episode with the bomber was very stand alone and it was fine, but the scenes with Londo and G'Kar trapped in the elevator were fantastic, subverting the standard tropes of that situation and showing both just how far G'Kar was willing to go for revenge, and very clearly establishing the part of his character that would grow in the Dust episode later. Another good example (and probably my favorite standalone) was Passing Through Gethsemane. It kinda felt like B5 met the Twilight Zone and just did a great job of both building up interesting bits about this version of humanity in the future. Though some of the best of this comes when you think something is filler, but it's actually not. In Grey 17 is Missing Garabaldi meets this crazy cult that believes the universe is sentient and preaches to him about the nature of the cosmos. It's played off in the episode like they're all crazy, but you find out much later through some subtle dialogue that the Mimbari essentially believe the same thing, and it's later pretty much confirmed by Lorien in season 4 to be correct.


I think I agree with pretty much all of you points. But as good as some stand-alone episodes were, there are as many that didn’t really add anything. As you say, this was more of an issue in the first couple of seasons.

IIRC when it was made a B5 season had 22 episodes, 9 were focused on advancing the overarching plot and the other 13 were standalone in one way or another. Making the show now, instead of 22 40 minute episodes, it could be 10-12 one hour episodes, with out losing momentum on the main plot but still giving enough space to have character arcs for background characters, stand-alone stories etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/19 18:11:12


 
   
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

Yeah, we have to remember the name of the game with TV those days was getting to 5 full seasons worth of rigidly-timed content so you could really cash in with syndication. Five was the magic number, so you did whatever you needed to do to stretch it to that amount.

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Going back to the dialogue - I actually liked the cheesy, melodramatic text. It was part of the 'vibe' of the show. It made Garibaldi (war veteran turned detective with a history of alcoholism) into Philip Marlow. It also suited the more prophesy-related dialogue from those races that were "taking in the heady aroma of medieval deep space".
   
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Ah - good ole' Garibaldi! He had some great lines.

In between that and the discussion about that lift episode (where Lando and G'Kar were trapped together) I have now got hold a very reasonably priced series 1 DVD

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 Pacific wrote:
Ah - good ole' Garibaldi! He had some great lines.


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The thing I remember vividly when B5 came out is that it actually covered real life stuff, like taking a shower or washing hands after going to the toilet. At the time, I couldn't point to any other sci-fi show that did that. However, that may just have been my own lack of horizons

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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

That kinda makes sense. Star Trek was the template at the time, and that template was sterile (pun not intended) in many aspects.

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Nobody went to the toilet in many 1960s shows.

Wasn't just star trek.

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UK

TV was very much more restrained than it is today. It's often really hard for people today to realise that something like the multicultural cast of Startrek Original series or Kirk kissing Uhura were BIG bold things in their time. Things that today we don't spare a second thought for.



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Southeastern PA, USA

 chromedog wrote:
Nobody went to the toilet in many 1960s shows.

Wasn't just star trek.


My comment extends beyond toilet habits, but then you know that.

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 gorgon wrote:

Today's streaming televisions shows get large budgets (meaning more appeal to better actors and writers), all the time they need to create, a format that allows as many or few episodes as you need, no rigid time constraints, no need for commercial breaks, etc.


Ehhh... maybe. Netflix seem to give you two seasons, then your show needs to be bringing in a lot of new subscribers, or off you go.
   
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 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 gorgon wrote:

Today's streaming televisions shows get large budgets (meaning more appeal to better actors and writers), all the time they need to create, a format that allows as many or few episodes as you need, no rigid time constraints, no need for commercial breaks, etc.


Ehhh... maybe. Netflix seem to give you two seasons, then your show needs to be bringing in a lot of new subscribers, or off you go.


A model that only works so long as there are new subscribers to be found.

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Southeastern PA, USA

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 gorgon wrote:

Today's streaming televisions shows get large budgets (meaning more appeal to better actors and writers), all the time they need to create, a format that allows as many or few episodes as you need, no rigid time constraints, no need for commercial breaks, etc.


Ehhh... maybe. Netflix seem to give you two seasons, then your show needs to be bringing in a lot of new subscribers, or off you go.


Well...yeah when going past one season on Netflix. But the rest still applies. At this point, I don't know why anyone would write a show for Netflix that has a slow burn. The writers got cute with Jupiter's Legacy (making season 1 prequel material) and now the show was cancelled before they really got to issue 1 of the comics.

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https://bleedingcool.com/tv/babylon-5-jms-sees-pilot-shoot-early-spring-possible-fall-2022-debut/



Looks like there's a good bit of momentum to the B5 reboot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/29 16:59:22


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