Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Trickstick wrote:

kurhanik wrote:
Huh, so I just looked at the leak for the Tempestus formation, and it includes Valkyries. Is this basically confirmation that auxilia do not break the Tempestus keyword for their Regimental Doctrines? After all, if this is not the case, then the Valkyries in the formation would be actively removing the Stormtrooper Doctrine from the infantry.

They never did! Literally the paragraph after the one detailing them losing their doctrine is about how auxilla don't prevent things from losing their doctrine! I was always really confused about this problem.

I have seen it argued both ways before though. That is why I am asking if this confirms the reading where it doesn't break the doctrine.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
It is pretty sad that Heroes of Rynn's World (one of the Crimson Fists Stratagems) is infinitely better than Bolter Drill. 1. It can be used on Hellblasters and Intercessors. 2. It generates extra hits, not extra shots. So you could use it on a big squad of Hellblasters with Pedro Kantor, overcharge your plasma incinerators, and cause a ton of wounds. Pedro helps prevent losing models and turning some misses into 6s. Put an LT by for added destruction. For added fun, use this Stratagem in conjunction with Paragons of Dorn if someone shot at you.

Now if only I could put Indomitus Crusaders on the same Detachment. The Rapid Fire Stratagem combined with this would make Intercessors very shooty. 4 Shots at 15", 6s generating additional hits? Not too shabby for 2CP.

Ok, it's objectively better than Bolter Drill. But only in units you can use it on. Can it be used on Inceptors or Agressors? Because both are great targets for Bolter Drill.

But yeah, it appears as if Crimson Fists got better served than their parent Chapter with their Specialist Detachment. Thankfully Indomitus Crusaders is for everyone

kurhanik wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

kurhanik wrote:
Huh, so I just looked at the leak for the Tempestus formation, and it includes Valkyries. Is this basically confirmation that auxilia do not break the Tempestus keyword for their Regimental Doctrines? After all, if this is not the case, then the Valkyries in the formation would be actively removing the Stormtrooper Doctrine from the infantry.

They never did! Literally the paragraph after the one detailing them losing their doctrine is about how auxilla don't prevent things from losing their doctrine! I was always really confused about this problem.

I have seen it argued both ways before though. That is why I am asking if this confirms the reading where it doesn't break the doctrine.

I bet that is one of those rule problems that, if you talked to the game designer about it, they would give you a weird look and think you were an idiot. I think the intent is obvious. I guess you can use this formation as a confirmation that the intent was for them to work together.

 Trickstick wrote:

kurhanik wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

kurhanik wrote:
Huh, so I just looked at the leak for the Tempestus formation, and it includes Valkyries. Is this basically confirmation that auxilia do not break the Tempestus keyword for their Regimental Doctrines? After all, if this is not the case, then the Valkyries in the formation would be actively removing the Stormtrooper Doctrine from the infantry.

They never did! Literally the paragraph after the one detailing them losing their doctrine is about how auxilla don't prevent things from losing their doctrine! I was always really confused about this problem.

I have seen it argued both ways before though. That is why I am asking if this confirms the reading where it doesn't break the doctrine.

I bet that is one of those rule problems that, if you talked to the game designer about it, they would give you a weird look and think you were an idiot. I think the intent is obvious. I guess you can use this formation as a confirmation that the intent was for them to work together.

patiently waits for BCB

But yeah, I think that's a safe assumption.

Have we seen leaks of any Chaos formations?

 Virules wrote:
Have we seen leaks of any Chaos formations?

There are none. Likely to be in the next book, when ever that is.

Yeah, this book introduces Harkon, but the book focuses on the Wars against the Orks and Genestealer cults.

 Virules wrote:
Have we seen leaks of any Chaos formations?

We've seen the table of contents for Vigilus 1 and there weren't any - stands to reason they'll probably be in Vigilus 2 (Abaddon and Black Legion being strongly foreshadowed as arriving in 80 days).

Yeah, this book introduces Harkon, but the book focuses on the Wars against the Orks and Genestealer cults.

I think Chaos shows up in force at the end of this first book so they'll probably feature in the second.

 DanielFM wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
It is pretty sad that Heroes of Rynn's World (one of the Crimson Fists Stratagems) is infinitely better than Bolter Drill. 1. It can be used on Hellblasters and Intercessors. 2. It generates extra hits, not extra shots. So you could use it on a big squad of Hellblasters with Pedro Kantor, overcharge your plasma incinerators, and cause a ton of wounds. Pedro helps prevent losing models and turning some misses into 6s. Put an LT by for added destruction. For added fun, use this Stratagem in conjunction with Paragons of Dorn if someone shot at you.

Now if only I could put Indomitus Crusaders on the same Detachment. The Rapid Fire Stratagem combined with this would make Intercessors very shooty. 4 Shots at 15", 6s generating additional hits? Not too shabby for 2CP.

Ok, it's objectively better than Bolter Drill. But only in units you can use it on. Can it be used on Inceptors or Agressors? Because both are great targets for Bolter Drill.

But yeah, it appears as if Crimson Fists got better served than their parent Chapter with their Specialist Detachment. Thankfully Indomitus Crusaders is for everyone

Correct, it cannot be used with Inceptors or Aggressors (my primary target for BD). Min squads of those still put a ton of shots out, even more with BD. But the combination of Bolter Drill and Heroes of Rynn's World makes for some insane amounts of shots fired by a full squad of Intercessors (who clock in at only a few more points than Inceptors).

But yeah, Crimson Fists got some love in a big way. Our WL trait isn't quite as good though. But overall, I am in love with this Specialist Detachment.

Anyone think Farsight’s 8 will actually perform well? Having to go with -3CP seems a bit harsh but, for the points, do they seem worth it/fun?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Anyone think Farsight’s 8 will actually perform well? Having to go with -3CP seems a bit harsh but, for the points, do they seem worth it/fun?

Fun? Sure. Not bad. Just a tad expensive.
Competitive? Not likely by a very long shot

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Seems extremely odd that Drukhari got no changes considering the sheer number of changes for other factions... They could at least nerf Dissie Ravagers and buff Hellions or something. Perhaps a page is missing?

Too new to be CAed

{Inigo}You keep using that phrase - I do not think it means what you think it means...{/Inigo}

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Anyone think Farsight’s 8 will actually perform well? Having to go with -3CP seems a bit harsh but, for the points, do they seem worth it/fun?

The CP penalty seems bizarre to me, you're already paying the points for the characters.

Guys, are there changes in how cover works? What are these "soft cover" and "hard cover" markers for?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60040199095_ChapterApprovedWarlord06.jpg

 _Ness wrote:
Guys, are there changes in how cover works? What are these "soft cover" and "hard cover" markers for?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60040199095_ChapterApprovedWarlord06.jpg

Yes. I've heard ruins and the like would now give +2 cover bonus to armour save, while craters, fences and lighter stuff will keep giving only +1. But I haven't seen it written, only as rumour

 Vector Strike wrote:

 _Ness wrote:
Guys, are there changes in how cover works? What are these "soft cover" and "hard cover" markers for?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60040199095_ChapterApprovedWarlord06.jpg

Yes. I've heard ruins and the like would now give +2 cover bonus to armour save, while craters, fences and lighter stuff will keep giving only +1. But I haven't seen it written, only as rumour

I think it is only for narrative scenarios though

So how many new units did SoBs get to test in the beta?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Anyone think Farsight’s 8 will actually perform well? Having to go with -3CP seems a bit harsh but, for the points, do they seem worth it/fun?

It is the nearest to close combat Tau that you can get, not that close combat Tau are ever going to be the best option.

As for performance you really need to qualify that by the format. Using GW missions such as those in the new CA I think it would perform OK with the right sort of support from the rest of your list. It will not be super-optimal but the new missions emphasise things like getting forwards and forcing your way onto objectives that the Eight are OK at. With extreme MSU, lots of Character keyword protection and various shield generators and other special rules for durability the Eight are quite a sturdy bunch of models. The Eight have sub-optimal builds and hence limited damage output but do have a points deduction to reflect that; they cost you CP but you do get more signature systems for that than would otherwise be possible. The fundamental issue they have is with trying to play a close up CC game with Tau - and they are the ultimate expression of herohammer but herohammer is really more fun than good.

If you play ITC or ETC missions forget it. The add-ons of kill points in all of their missions are just horrible for anything as MSU as the Eight. When deployed the Eight become 15 independent units, that is a ludicrous number of kill points in ETC or ITC missions. Of course GW never claimed or promised to care about balancing for homebrew missions that other people make up and if they have not got kill points in most of their missions why would they spend much time balancing for kill points when they write rules?

Indomitus veterans can be put on any adeptus astartes detachment, why can't death watch use it? They don't have captains Or ancient but they have Intercessors and Inceptors. so they get the strats but not the relics.

The alternate cover system is optional for all types of play.

happy_inquisitor wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Anyone think Farsight’s 8 will actually perform well? Having to go with -3CP seems a bit harsh but, for the points, do they seem worth it/fun?

It is the nearest to close combat Tau that you can get, not that close combat Tau are ever going to be the best option.

As for performance you really need to qualify that by the format. Using GW missions such as those in the new CA I think it would perform OK with the right sort of support from the rest of your list. It will not be super-optimal but the new missions emphasise things like getting forwards and forcing your way onto objectives that the Eight are OK at. With extreme MSU, lots of Character keyword protection and various shield generators and other special rules for durability the Eight are quite a sturdy bunch of models. The Eight have sub-optimal builds and hence limited damage output but do have a points deduction to reflect that; they cost you CP but you do get more signature systems for that than would otherwise be possible. The fundamental issue they have is with trying to play a close up CC game with Tau - and they are the ultimate expression of herohammer but herohammer is really more fun than good.

If you play ITC or ETC missions forget it. The add-ons of kill points in all of their missions are just horrible for anything as MSU as the Eight. When deployed the Eight become 15 independent units, that is a ludicrous number of kill points in ETC or ITC missions. Of course GW never claimed or promised to care about balancing for homebrew missions that other people make up and if they have not got kill points in most of their missions why would they spend much time balancing for kill points when they write rules?

I don't play ITC so that's okay, mostly play home games with friends. I just have a couple of friends who play with some good unit combos so as long as they aren't laughably bad then I'll be happy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So how many new units did SoBs get to test in the beta?

Missionary - slightly buffed HQ Priest type from the index
Preacher - weaker Elite Priest type from the index
Ministorum Conclave units and PenEngines allowable in Sororitas detachments without penalty.
Imagifer removed, banner bearer returned to a squad upgrade.
Celestine lost her Geminae who are now a separate Elite choice, unsure as of yet if they have the character keyword still. (I suspect they do)
I haven't seen all of the wording yet, but the two Ministorum models from Blackstone Fortress don't appear to be in the Beta.

So, zero???

Kaneda88 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 _Ness wrote:
Guys, are there changes in how cover works? What are these "soft cover" and "hard cover" markers for?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60040199095_ChapterApprovedWarlord06.jpg

Yes. I've heard ruins and the like would now give +2 cover bonus to armour save, while craters, fences and lighter stuff will keep giving only +1. But I haven't seen it written, only as rumour

I think it is only for narrative scenarios though

Its for Cities of Death campigens (or just games, if you want), who get them as well as rules for height advantage, roads, obscured targets, etc.

the_scotsman wrote:
Indomitus veterans can be put on any adeptus astartes detachment, why can't death watch use it? They don't have captains Or ancient but they have Intercessors and Inceptors. so they get the strats but not the relics.

I might be wrong, but they are Space Marine stratagems, and those are limited to the Adeptus Astartes codex.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So how many new units did SoBs get to test in the beta?

Missionary - slightly buffed HQ Priest type from the index
Preacher - weaker Elite Priest type from the index
Ministorum Conclave units and PenEngines allowable in Sororitas detachments without penalty.
Imagifer removed, banner bearer returned to a squad upgrade.
Celestine lost her Geminae who are now a separate Elite choice, unsure as of yet if they have the character keyword still. (I suspect they do)
I haven't seen all of the wording yet, but the two Ministorum models from Blackstone Fortress don't appear to be in the Beta.

So, zero???

Yes, zero new units. Existing units mostly unchanged from the Index. Some rearranging of stuff but overall nothing new.

Gemini do have the character keyword from the page I saw.

So if December 15 is where this 80 day timer kicks off it'll end on March 5th. Which is a Tuesday so it might be fair to just say that week so chances are there'll either be an announcement by then or go up for pre-order.

 DanielFM wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Indomitus veterans can be put on any adeptus astartes detachment, why can't death watch use it? They don't have captains Or ancient but they have Intercessors and Inceptors. so they get the strats but not the relics.

I might be wrong, but they are Space Marine stratagems, and those are limited to the Adeptus Astartes codex.

I think you're right - that's exactly what it looks like. Even though that warlord trait is so fluffy for Deathwatch.

Would be pretty powerful to give an Intergressor unit like 19 power fist attacks just from being Vets.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So how many new units did SoBs get to test in the beta?

Missionary - slightly buffed HQ Priest type from the index
Preacher - weaker Elite Priest type from the index
Ministorum Conclave units and PenEngines allowable in Sororitas detachments without penalty.
Imagifer removed, banner bearer returned to a squad upgrade.
Celestine lost her Geminae who are now a separate Elite choice, unsure as of yet if they have the character keyword still. (I suspect they do)
I haven't seen all of the wording yet, but the two Ministorum models from Blackstone Fortress don't appear to be in the Beta.

So, zero???

Yes, zero new units. Existing units mostly unchanged from the Index. Some rearranging of stuff but overall nothing new.

Gemini do have the character keyword from the page I saw.

I guess they might be able to use a relic then?

Ice_can wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Do we have leaks for any of the FW Imperial Knights? Or are there none?

it was in one of the pictures but only three or four listed I think it was only the Magera, lancer and Polhpophrnone. (Apologies for butchering the names)

Lancer and Magaera both see a 60 point drop on their chassis. Porphyrion remains unchanged since CA17.