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Well, I'm hardly the ultimate judge of what makes a good model.

Imagine the katana that is currently in my models hand scaled up by roughly 30%, with a bit deeper (back to edge) blade so that there's a surface to paint effects on. Must have a proper tsuba. Must have a handle that is symmetrically cylindrical so that a simple hole can be drilled into ANY closed fist to accept the sword, making it's utility nearly limitless.

Sword should also have some type of power array. Again remember this is japanese from the samurai period... weaponry is practical, subtle and minimal. No huge, ungainly gadget that ruins the lines of the sword but maybe something that runs from the handle along the lower 1/4 of the back of the blade, so it is easily recognizable as a power weapon.

Extra details that would be nice...

- tsuba has a decorative edge or shape
- lacing pattern on sword handle is correct (or at least gives the indication of a proper lacing pattern).
- make the weapon as a powered naginata (glaive), but with a natural cut off point at the bottom of the pommel so that a person could use it as either a powered glaive or a powered katana (or by cutting the blade and handle shorter a powered wakizashi).

One basic cast with multiple applications and near unlimited flexibility... that's what I'm after.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dang it! Just wrote a big post describing what I'm thinking of and it got eaten!.... Hopefully it's just lost in page roll-over so I don't have to re-type.

*grumble*

@Gitspiter Want me to take some photos out of IA 10 for you? they have a thunderhawk transporter in there.

Already accounted for Miss Dee, thank you though.

LOL gotta hate the page rollover effect.

Yep wouldnt let me see em for a bit....thanks to you im contemplating even more of my time here and starting my own blog n seeing where it goes

It's really helpful polari, can't say enough about all the help I've gotten here, not to mention the new friends.

Brief update before bed... Other than finishing the basing (rebasing, sorry Ice... dropped it) on the cool marine I got from Ice for the GMS, I assembled the basic hulls for the two razorbacks and primed them green with the Army Painter green spray primer. This is a little darker that the green I've chosen for my troops and the doors and hatches of the vehicles. I think it will serve as a good background color for the zenithal lighting techniques I'll be attempting on the rest of the model. Not worth a pic though.

There's a thread on here about making swords that includes loads of links to places that sell 28mm katanas.

As for the IA10 yellow pauldrons I would imagine that it's exactly as you said; they just expanded out the yellow dot. It does look rather nice, but it comes back to the old "it's your army" thing

Thanks endtrans! I'll check it out!

I'm reading through the IA Mantis Warriors stuff. I must admit... so far I love what I'm reading and seeing. Not that they need my approval... but I think they've got it. And best if all I think it works really well with what I've come up with.

Happy Gitsplitta... even in the fluff they suggest that there's a lot of variation and individuality within the chapter and a lot of customization... so I think my "verson" can be accepted as a part of the milieu that makes up the chapter.

The Badab War has always been my favourite W40K fluff, and I am so happy that IA9 and IA10 have been done so well, and with such feeling for the original source material from "back in the day". I think my favourite is that an old article in WD called "Rampaging Rhinos" back around WD102 or 103, when Rhinos were first ever released made a very, very brief reference to Rhinos being loaded up with nerve gas, or somesuch and being used as WMDs in the Badab War, and it appears as a mission in IA9! THAT is attention to detail. Alan Bligh really "gets" the Badab War, in my not-so-humble opinion.

Yeah, a non-chaos instigated, politically based, space marine rebellion is just too juicy! That's what captivated me all those years ago.

Glad FW did such a nice job with it, more than I could have hoped for.

Gitsplitta wrote:Well, I'm hardly the ultimate judge of what makes a good model.

Imagine the katana that is currently in my models hand scaled up by roughly 30%, with a bit deeper (back to edge) blade so that there's a surface to paint effects on. Must have a proper tsuba. Must have a handle that is symmetrically cylindrical so that a simple hole can be drilled into ANY closed fist to accept the sword, making it's utility nearly limitless.

Sword should also have some type of power array. Again remember this is japanese from the samurai period... weaponry is practical, subtle and minimal. No huge, ungainly gadget that ruins the lines of the sword but maybe something that runs from the handle along the lower 1/4 of the back of the blade, so it is easily recognizable as a power weapon.

Extra details that would be nice...

- tsuba has a decorative edge or shape
- lacing pattern on sword handle is correct (or at least gives the indication of a proper lacing pattern).
- make the weapon as a powered naginata (glaive), but with a natural cut off point at the bottom of the pommel so that a person could use it as either a powered glaive or a powered katana (or by cutting the blade and handle shorter a powered wakizashi).

One basic cast with multiple applications and near unlimited flexibility... that's what I'm after.

Small issue with that.. you'd lose a lot of the details on the tsuka when you put it in the hand anyway unless you want extra long handles. Tsuba will be .. very very small so shaping is probably the best option. Any preference? Rounded type? Angular?
The whole naginata cut down idea (while awesome) isnt functional.. nagi's are never as long as katana and are more like a wakizashi on a stick.. having said that you could do a single wak/nagi spear and then katana's separately.
Actually while I'm being overly and needlessly picky about something that should be relatively simple.. what are you wanting to have in terms of the hamon? Wider for a larger cutting surface? Or thinner for more effects room on the blade?

Interesting... what if the "power" was IN the hamon? (or at least depicted there... it would be very appropriate.

(for those of you not familiar with the terminology, the hamon is the tempering line that I depicted on my sword by washing the edge of the blade unevenly)

I've seen period depictions of naginata that had blades comparable to a katana, at least they appeared so, but I do not pretend to be an expert in Japanese weaponry. I simply thought it would be smart use of someone's time to produce a single item that could be used as either a sword or a glaive. Indeed, the sword on Inushi there was from just such a modeled weapon... just one that's a bit too small for 40k.

Saw this on the net Git and thought of you

Possibly for a naginata you can use the weapon from vulcan or at least the shaft n some green stuff

Sweet Santobel! Like it!

Well polari, we'll see. I'm far from panic mode. I have options & I'm going to be totally preoccupied until after Adepticon in April, so I'm not too worried. A solution will present itself in good time.


Progress today:

- got the base coat painted on the body and track housings on both razorbacks.
- began painting the "shade" color for the zenithal lighting technique. Got the body done, will work on the track housings tomorrow.
- will need to do a bunch of masking, but when I get the highlight color done and blended, I'll assemble the body of each vehicle and get a photo up. By that time I'll be feeling that I've accomplished something.

So far, so good. Still getting used to my brush and have ordered a smaller needle which I think would help with the blending... but since it's back-ordered & not likely to get here any time soon I'll just have to make due. Found a series of youtube vids that do a good job in explaining the technique, so at least I know what I'm shooting for.

Was just a thought since its already to scale and textured no need to panic lol

Monkeh wrote:

Gitsplitta wrote:Well, I'm hardly the ultimate judge of what makes a good model.

Imagine the katana that is currently in my models hand scaled up by roughly 30%, with a bit deeper (back to edge) blade so that there's a surface to paint effects on. Must have a proper tsuba. Must have a handle that is symmetrically cylindrical so that a simple hole can be drilled into ANY closed fist to accept the sword, making it's utility nearly limitless.

Sword should also have some type of power array. Again remember this is japanese from the samurai period... weaponry is practical, subtle and minimal. No huge, ungainly gadget that ruins the lines of the sword but maybe something that runs from the handle along the lower 1/4 of the back of the blade, so it is easily recognizable as a power weapon.

Extra details that would be nice...

- tsuba has a decorative edge or shape
- lacing pattern on sword handle is correct (or at least gives the indication of a proper lacing pattern).
- make the weapon as a powered naginata (glaive), but with a natural cut off point at the bottom of the pommel so that a person could use it as either a powered glaive or a powered katana (or by cutting the blade and handle shorter a powered wakizashi).

One basic cast with multiple applications and near unlimited flexibility... that's what I'm after.

Small issue with that.. you'd lose a lot of the details on the tsuka when you put it in the hand anyway unless you want extra long handles. Tsuba will be .. very very small so shaping is probably the best option. Any preference? Rounded type? Angular?
The whole naginata cut down idea (while awesome) isnt functional.. nagi's are never as long as katana and are more like a wakizashi on a stick.. having said that you could do a single wak/nagi spear and then katana's separately.
Actually while I'm being overly and needlessly picky about something that should be relatively simple.. what are you wanting to have in terms of the hamon? Wider for a larger cutting surface? Or thinner for more effects room on the blade?

the tsuba isnt really nececary (i think its writen like this) its more of a decoration on the real swords than anything else.
the blade on the naginata is infact a katana sized blade but there are a lot of designs so you an go for pretty much anything.
and Git why dont you try the Dark Elf spearmen box? from there spears you can make naginatas easly and if you would cut them down you will have you katana. i think you will need too take your time for it but it could be usefull

Monkeh wrote:Small issue with that.. you'd lose a lot of the details on the tsuka when you put it in the hand anyway unless you want extra long handles. Tsuba will be .. very very small so shaping is probably the best option. Any preference? Rounded type? Angular?

I never answered this question... I've always been fond of the 4-lobed design myself, but in the end as long as there IS a tsuba I would be satisfield.

I'm not certain that I agree that a tsuba is only decorative. Having trained with a variety of swords, including katanas in the past, without it your hands would likely be incapacitated by the first or second block as your opponent's blade slid down your blade into your hands. To my knowledge, every sword ever made had some kind of guard above the hands, there's good reason for that.

well the tsuba would be cut of the moment the blade hits it.
we traine by the house of Hatsumi which is a ninja house by nature. And dont forget the hand guards you normaly wear

fatty wrote:well the tsuba would be cut of the moment the blade hits it.
we traine by the house of Hatsumi which is a ninja house by nature. And dont forget the hand guards you normaly wear

Unless it was made of a very strong material.
Besides, this is the year 40k. A power sword would cut the guards off after the first clash, but all power swords still have them...
I'd imagine katanas would still have them as well.

It wouldn't need to be made of strong metal... 3/8" brass would probably muck up a sword cut easily enough, especially if you are deflecting the stroke rather than just "catching" it, and a soft metal would absorb the force of the stroke without failing like a harder metal would. Remember that a katana is a relatively light weapon... lots of speed but less mass. It's cutting power is tremendous but chopping power not-so-much. You don't kill people with katana-like weapons by bludgeoning... you do it by surgical strikes to precise, vulnerable areas. Bludgeoning weapons are of an entirely different sort... glorious in their own way if perhaps less elegant on the surface. But that's my personal bias showing through.

fatty wrote:well the tsuba would be cut of the moment the blade hits it.
we traine by the house of Hatsumi which is a ninja house by nature. And dont forget the hand guards you normaly wear

I't not until after 1600 (according to Wikipedia anyway) that the tsuba become more decorative than functional. Whether the tsuba was a functioning part of your defense would not only dictate your style of combat and your other gear as you suggest... but could well indicate whether your sword was actually a functional tool or a decorative gew-gaw. I can't imagine even in period that someone would invest a large sum into a decorative golden piece of sword hardware that would get hacked through the first time it was used... IF the intent was to use the sword with any regularity. Thus a purely decorative tsuba would suggest to me a sword that was either not really intended for use in combat, or perhaps a sword made for a specific fighting style that had been developed to compensate for the absence of a functional guard at the top of the grip. But if that's the case, why have a tsuba at all?

But... that's all rather esoteric and probably not if interest to anyone save you and I. For the nonce then... MY favored *interpretation* would be for a weapon with a functional guard at the top of the grip... preferably lobed but not necessarily so.

-----


My greater concern at the moment is less to do with the finer points of power katana modeling (though that's fun to discuss) and more along the lines of... do I give my razorback tac squad sergeants a power weapon (the current plan) or are they better off with some sort of combi-weapon and save the extra points for other parts of my army & just hope to God I can keep them out of assaults? Arming them with power fists is not an option as I don't have the points... but I could use the extra savings from the power weapons to do some useful things in my otherwise skin-and-bones 1000 pt army.

This is for Adepticon so I'll be teamed up with a partner that will probably be more assaulty than I am... which isn't hard as I have almost no assault capability in my existing build. Since these squads are for objective sitting or quarter holding I'm not sure where to go with them. They're certainly not for front line assault duty... but if their Razors get popped & they get assaulted they're pretty defenseless (or... offenseless as the case may be) if I remove their power swords.

Any thoughts?

After my last 6 games with my Razorback heavy list I have to say...drop those suckers!

A five man squad is just too small to survive heavy or even medium fire when they disembark, the R'back will get popped far too often and, this is just me, its often confusing in battle to decide what role you want to put the Razorback to. Is it a transport or a tankhunter ( I ran t/l Lascannons) Again it is probably my lack of experience with marines but I have ended up going with 10 man squads in rhinos to give the squads enough bodies to survive long enough to get into battle, otherwise a powerfist or power weapon is just a waste of points.

This is probably all pointless as you will be camping on objectives but at AV11 Razorbacks will get popped and often those 5 man squads are going to be sitting out in the open.

Just my (inexperienced) 2 cents though

My problem with giving one guy in a 5 man squad a power weapon is that its not that scary. You think an ork boy squad is going to care if you kill one or two? Or a assaulty squad with higher Initative (Nids, DE,etc)? Even with a power weapon, they are kinda worthless in CC.

The trick (at least what I do) with RBs is to drop of the men inside to hold a further back objective (in your deployment zone) and the use it as a sucky-but-cheap predator. It will get looked over for better targets once it has no troops inside or ability to capture an objective, but still be able to pop vehicles (or whatever) rather well.

You know ... you gonna make Gits re-do his list if you keep posting.. >;O

I loved using my Razorback with my Space wolves. A razorback is my favorite way to get a TL Lascannon to a good vantage point and drop off some Long Fangs sp they can make use of the vehicle itself for cover while they take to a better position to shoot from. Yes, a Razorback has a limited troop capacity, but the choices of weaponry you get for it make up for that lack of 4 marines, but for the benefit of a Lascannon or Assault Cannon, makes it slightly more worth the points I spent on it verus just taking a rhino, which only gets that storm bolter.

YMMV

Hmmm... well, mine have got the lascannon and TL plasmas (or whatever). I wasn't thinking about it's application for boys... more as anti-terminator defense late in the game. The park, sit & plink w/ their las cannons. If the late game teleporting termies show up... you have the LC and plasma fire on top of whatever bolter fire there is, plus the 3 power sword attacks at initiative before the temies get their attacks, or at least at the same time.

I am, for better or worse... "married" to the razorbacks. So my only real wiggle room is in equipping the two sergeants.

So best case for your squad Vs a 5 man termi squad with no options is, assuming they have no better shots or mishap:
Termi DS
Fire 5 SB on your 5 marines. 5 hits, 2.5 wounds, .7 kills (we'll say one)
You move.
Razorback fires. LC hits .5, wounds .41, kills .27ish
TLPG in rapid fire range hits 1.5, wounds 1.25, kills .83ish (go with 1 from the RB)
4 bolt pistols fire. 2 hit, 1 wound, .2 kills (going with none)
Assault, your sgt (with PS) goes, 4 attacks on the charge. 2 hit, 1 wound, .67 kills
3 tac marines, 2 attacks each on charge. 3 hit, 1.5 wound, .25 wound. So lets say one total in CC
the three remaining termis hit back with 6 PF attacks, 3 hit, 2.5 wounds, 2.5 kills.

If the RB was not in Rapid fire range, your killing power is gone, and the squad gets whipped out.

Dont feel like going a 2nd round, but I'd guess your tac sqaud eats it.

I know not tactics page, but relevant in this case.

It's all up to personal choice really. I always run power weapons on my sarges when I have the points. Sometimes they aren't used, sometimes they are, but as soon as I don't have one I know I will miss it. I'm not a huge fan of combi weapons unless there is a reason or a specific task in mind for the squad.

From a modelling perspective I think a power weapon really helps them to stand out as a leader. On top of that they are fun to paint. And perhaps more importantly you have a deadline and I suspect a power weapon will be quicker than a combi.

Taff

On the whole tsuba thing, hatsumi school is a primarily ninjutsu school which deals in a completely different type of katana (ninja sword, straighter typically with either a much larger tsuba or none at all). All through my kobudo and kenjutsu training we were taught that tsuba's were typically made of a metal composite in some manner and were in use for glancing slashes and as gits pointed out defense based on parrying. They are definately functional and totally awesome aesthetically.. just to be sure.. the bulb design you mention, you mean something similar to this sunflower style guard Gits?

Awsome idea on the power hamon.. if the hamon is much wider then you can have the power arcs/effects painted in there rather than the body of the blade, great idea!


No tanks in my current army but my preference is definately the power weapon. As you mentioned, vs termy's or even tying up vehicles it's invaluable to reduce casualties or maybe even take some targets down with it. If it's an otherwise generic tac squad then the power weapon will help if being assaulted by non-squishy targets.. or even mega orks/warboss. That way even if the tank get's popped or you need to dash ahead for more targets you can just plant them in cover and they can protect themselves from assaults.

I play orks so I cant offer much in the way of tactics or equipment, but I, too, really like Razorbacks. There's just something in the design that just appeals to me.


I have been working on plans for katanas, and I think I have a good design. Just need to implement it.

The tsuba is one part i had a question or two on-
Do you want it simple (similar to most Power swords) or with a bit more to it? I sketched up a crude design for a mantis-head tsuba, and another with an imperial eagle theme.
I could probably rig up some sort of kit that would give a choice of tsuba(s?), would you want that?

They would be of a similar (if not Identical) scale to the wakazashi, so those would also potentially have the ability for tsuba-swapping.

As for naginata, I think a thin tube (brass or plastic) would be all you would need to turn a wakazashi/katana into a naginata with little difficulty. All that would be required after assembling the tube and sword is a counterweight of some type on the other end, depending on what sort of look you would want for that.

Ah yes, and would you want sheathes (unsure of term) for the power-katana? Or even some form of kit to convert the empty sheathes into sheathed blades?