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Ok, so first, what I have listed so far has to stay in the army, there's no getting around it, or dropping things. What I need is comments on what to add to make it better.
Ill be fighting orks mostly, so that why I've chosen flamers/heavy bolters mostly. Here goes:
List 1:

Chaos Lord: Terminator armor, Lightning Claws.

Chaos Sorcerer: Terminator armor, Winds of Chaos.

4 Terminators: Lightning Claw, Power fist, Chain fist, heavy flamer, Combi-flamer.

10 Marines: Champ w/power sword, heavy bolter, flamer.

5 Marines: Flamer, IoCG. Rhino.

Predator Destructor: w/heavy bolter sponsons.

This brings me to 860.

2nd list idea.

Chaos Sorcerer:Terminator armor, Winds of Chaos.

5 Terminators: Champ w/Twin Lightning Claws, Lightning Claw, Power fist, Chain fist, heavy flamer, Combi-flamer.

10 Marines: Champ w/power sword, heavy bolter, flamer.

5 Marines: Flamer, IoCG. Rhino.

Predator Destructor: w/heavy bolter sponsons.

This leaves me with 771pts. Im not really sure what to do with that 229pts. I was thinking Thousand Sons are always pretty good, I do have some Berzerkers, some Possessed, I also have bikers, but was thinking more troops is always a good thing, but what? This is a word bearer themed army, so I could do summoned daemons.

Anyone care to throw in their two cents?
Thanks!

bikers might be nice b/c they are relentless however they are super costly and you may not want to spend so many points on such a small unit against green skins

i like the idea of zerkers or khornate raptors

any way i see it you want to steal the ork charge from them

plague marines may be able to tarpit successfully and may even win the battle of attrition.

what about vindicators? large pie plates and a punch that take out any ork vehicle at 1000 pts

Vindis are quite nice, i would give your sorc. Warptime, he will eat units alive. I would try and fit 3 troops units in there, and because your word bearers, get a unit of lesser daemons, the IoCG squad can summon them and get your termies in too. If you drop 10 poind in the first list, you could also just get 2 obliterators. the second list, I would upgrade the HB on the CSM to a ML and get that daemon pack, maybe like 12 daemons and then you could squeeze an obliterator in there lol. Or take a 3 man "termicide" unit with combi-meltas to pop armor.

So based on that (very helpful advice, thank you!) here's what I got....

Chaos Sorcerer: Terminator Armor, Winds of Chaos. 145pts.

Terminators x5: Champ/w Twin Lightning Claws, Lightning Claw, Power fist, Chain fist, heavy flamer, Combi-flamer. 215pts.

10 Marines: Champ w/power sword, heavy bolter, flamer. 195pts.

5 Marines: Flamer, IoCG. Rhino. 90pts.

Lesser Daemons: x8. 104pts.

Predator Destructor: w/heavy bolter sponsons. 100pts.

Vindicator: 125pts.

Whatcha think? Id have to drop like maybe 2 daemons and 4 other points or so to get WarpTime, that's why I passed...

Thanks for replying!
T-

I'd consider dropping the vindicator to bump that 5-man squad up to 10, make it like the other squad (with IoCG), and make sure they both have rhinos. A 5-man flamer squad on foot won't last long and won't seriously impact large ork squads. Spare points could come from stripping some upgrades from the terminators.

When you upgrade to 1500, consider investing in a land raider for your terminators. It can only transport 5, but for a squad of mixed weapons like that (a non-optimal mix, but that's what you get in the box) a LR might be a good idea.

One good idea would be to drop the Predator Destructor in favor of more marines, and you would still be able to accomplish the anti-infantry role. Consider taking a 5 man chosen squad with an IoN or IoCG with 5 meltaguns instead of the termies, then having a greater daemon and a big daemon pack that could appear quite close to the enemy. Then you could run 2x 10 Man Marine squads in rhinos and 1 5 man to hold objectives (a plauge marine unit would also be a great unit to have here, T5 FNP in cover is just nasty)

Really the more troops the better, let me give you a fluffy but solid list for Word Bearers.

Chaos Sorcerer - 130 *rides with possessed*
Warptime; Melta Bombs (Winds of Chaos would also work here, its a flamer and its nice lol)

Possessed CSM - 195
6x; IoCG; Rhino

CSM - 180
10x; AC; Flamer; Missile Launcher

CSM - 180
10x; AC; Flamer; Missile Launcher

Noise Marines - 185
6x; 5x Sonic Blasters; Blastmaster

Chaos Predator - 130
Lascannon Sponsons

Alright, as you can see you got 3 scoring units, the more the better in fifth edition. You posessed + you sorc. are a devestating unit, the sorc getting rerolls to hit and to wound with a powerweapon is a powerhouse. The predator is your main AT while the CSM can do some AT with their ML's. The noise marines are very good firesupport and can unleash a lot of shots on the move from a good range, and even more standing still. Chaos does even better at higher poitns, but this is a solid force that should do you some good.

-This is just an example of what could work, please, play/do whatever you want, but make sure to a good amount of troops at your base.

I used the list I posted in a game earlier last night against my buddy's orks, and they did pretty well. I shot up 18 out of 20 man squad in one round of shooting, which was pretty sweet, but unfortunately the bastards didnt run, lol. The only squad that didnt really do so hot was the terminators. They got hit with the Warboss/Nob biker unit, and I got hit with the mediocre rolling bus. I think I like the look of your list, the only thing is that I dont have a sorc in power armor, just the terminator. Anyway to keep him in?
Also, are you saying for the Predator to go Autocannon/Lascannons then?
As far as your list I can do the Possessed, the Marine squads and the Pred. I dont actually have noise marines, but could proxy. I am going to be getting from a trade about 18 Thousand Sons, what do you think about using these? Would be a good deterrent for those pesky PK's, but I can see the noise marines range coming into play too.
Im pretty much open to suggestions here, as long as it works towards the winning! lol

Thanks again!
T-

Dropping 1 posessed could get your sorc. that terminator armor easily. The predator w/lascannon sponsons + AC turrent can still be AT effective (str 7 = can glance AV 13) while not spending another 35 or so points. With the edition of all those marines, it would be safe to make the predator full AT like I posted.

TSons are better and worse than NM's. TSons have to pay for a 60+ point sorcerer.... thats 2 noise marines with sonicblasters... BUT that sorc. can also throw out 3 ST4 AP3 shots or a Nasty Flamer template (NM's could also do this with doomsiron) The debate is the fact that you have anti-infantry with the other CSM and the Posessed, so getting AP3 boltguns that will shoot @ 24 inches even when you move (slow and purposeful) is quite a scary meq killer. A 5 man T-Sons units w/Sorc + Doombolt throws out 7 ST4 AP3 shots a turn @24" and 11 at 12", which could put the hurt on any Meqs day. But, if you are versing non-SM, CSM, or Necrons, T-sons become more lackluster. (the 4+ inv, save is still nice though ) Noisemarines can still shoot @ 24 inches when they move 6" giving them a 30" range. They also can pump out 3 shots a turn if they stay still.... OUCH. Also, they get a non-overheating plasmacannon, verynice.

TSons could work well, especially as a nasty If you charge me you get AP3 to the face unit. Paying for NM's may also be worth it (honestly just buying a normal CSM squad and painting them pink can work lol, for the SonicB's get some green stuff and make the bolters look a little special or something and tada!) especially because of all the new guard players that will be showing up (NM's are the best CSM at taking out light infantry, giving them a doomsiron and the NChamp a PW also makes them good at Anti-Meq!)

EzeKK: Your insight has been much appreciated!
Id be curious to see what you could come up with as far as a couple 1000pt lists.
Id like to see one that had some of the Thousand Sons in it (I totally forgot about the slow&purposeful move&shoot 24").
Like the Terminator Sorc, marine squads, thousand sons, maybe the autocannon/lascannon Pred. anything else you want to squeeze in there.
The other would be Noise Marine focused, similar to what you mentioned earlier, I saw GW actually sells kits of 5 Sonic Blasters + 1 Blastmaster for lke 17 bucks.
If the list works out pretty well, Id consider dropping the cash for them.

Thanks again!
T-

Actually anyone can reply, but Ezekk has been a lot of help thus far.

Please feel free to make any critiques/comments that do NOT automatically jump to utter disdain of my 5 man Chaos squad, or immediately adding 2x Lash Princes + 6-9x Obliterators.

I realize the benefits of these units, I just dont want to use them.

Anyone that can help me work some Thousand Sons into this list without going over 1000pts. I was thinking about dropping the Terminators altogether and try them at a higher points limit. They did OK in their first game, but I think there might be better choices, like more troops.

Thanks all!
T-

At a quick glance, it looks like you might have some issues with anyone running heavy armor (AV14). While the meltabombs and lascannons might slow them down, I think you needs some meltas/combi-meltas in the list. I like runnign the 3 man termie suicide squads with combi-meltas. You might be able to fit one into your CSM squad too, dropping the flamer.

I am also a fan of the Vindicator, instead of the Predator (in-theory, as I have yet to ever run a Predator).

Anyone else have any feedback/comments?
Id love to hear from any of the games who've gotten the ins and outs of the newest codex.

Thanks!
T-

The Vindicator effectively shuts down Ork Hordes at this points level. The anti-tank roll can be filled by almost any other unit, but nothing stomps hordes like a Vindicator.

Possessed will be both fluffy and great shock troops with your Sorcerer. I would look into getting a Greater Daemon. For 100 points it has an amazing stat-line. I use my possessed for it, and it smashes gun lines.

Ok, so what I was thinking of doing is dropping the x5 Terminators and replacing them with either another squad of Chaos Marines with a Champ w/ Combi-Flamer, and maybe 2 assault weapons, or like an 8 Thousand Sons "bodyguard" for my Sorcerer (who is getting WarpTime to be sure!!) or I guess I could add some Possessed in place of those two, but I really need more scoring units, dont I? lol.

So as of now, Im looking at this:

Sorcerer: Terminators Armor, Warptime, Winds of Chaos. 170pts.

Marine Squad: x10, Champ w/Power Sword, Flamer, Heavy Bolter. 195pts.

Marine Squad: x5, Flamer, IoCG. 90pts.
Rhino: 35pts.

Lesser Daemons: x8. 104pts.

Pred Destructor: Heavy Bolter Sponsons. 100pts.

Vindicator: 125pts.

So this leaves 181pts., any suggestions as to where to go then? More marines, Thousand Sons, or the aforementioned Possessed?

Thanks!
T-

Heres my critique on new list:

IMO, your list was better before. A Sorc is Power Armor has no mobility, so it will take him forever to get into the action.

You have even less anti-tank than before

You only have one icon for the Lesser Daemon to arrive from, and thats from a 5 man squad. While in a Rhino, it can still be dealt with quickly, and depending on reserve rolls = bad news.

For your Marine Squads, maybe try to put both in Rhinos, give both Champs with Power Fists, and have 1 of the special weapons be a melta.

So what would you recommend? The Sorcerer in Terminator armor stays. The figure's been painted and converted, as seen below, so Ive got to keep him in.

The two marine squads are painted too, so they have to stay.

Other than that, Id be interested in seeing what you come up with army list-wise, I have a lot of stuff, but dont own any Noise Marines. I also dont want to run Lash Princes or Oblits.

Im going to be getting about 18 Thousand Sons off my buddy, and would like to include them at some point.

Also, I dont have a lot of anti-tank because Im mostly going to be fighting Orks. I do however have a Pred with Autocannon/Lascannon sponsons I modeled up some years ago when playing Death Guard actually meant something. Anyways, trying to stay at 1000pts with these stipulations.

Let me know what you come up with!

T-

That mini is gorgeous, the weathering really gives it a great effect of being through millenia in the same armour. Also the design on his head is a nice detail.

Thanks for the critique of the mini, Im glad you noticed the 8 pointed star on his head! Not many people can tell it's there because I used a brown, which was closer to the skin tone, than a black which was more drastic.

So, you all see why I want to keep him in the list right? lol.

T-

Sorc looks good.

As far as a list... hmm.

So before I give a list let me think out loud a sec...

So for your Sorc, to get two psychic powers, you either need a Familiar or a Mark of Tzeetch. That gets real expensive quick, so we need to think of what roll the Sorcerer is going to play, either shooty or choppy, as one might say.. so with the two powers you chose its looks like you are going for choppy, so lets go with Warp Time as a first thought..

So we have

Chaos Sorcerer (Terminator Armour, Warp Time) - 155

But now we have the challenge of getting him into an assault.. The best option is a Land Raider, which gets expensive really fast (220 - 240 (w/ Daemon Possession = Awesome) points), but at a 1000 points it gets rough to meet that, unless we specifically built around it. The other option is Deep Striking, which is risky since on the turn he Deep Strikes he cannot assault and he is a sitting duck for something like plasma guns, melta guns, lascannons, or plasma cannons. Also, if we go deep strike, we want to have him deep strike with friends, think at least 3 other terminators with some basic gear, like 3 combi-meltas = 105 points. We could also add a power fist, chain fist, or maybe add another terminator with a heavy flamer, which gives them a sort of anti-tank (with the combi-meltas) or a initial round of anti-inf with the flamer, i like to make them a suicide squad of 3 combi-meltas, but have the sorc with suicide squad is a tough move... basically I am not sure where to go here but hopefully you get the dilemna I am having... So for sake of argument, lets go with minimal termicide approach

3 terms (3x Combi-Meltas) = 105 points

So, so far we spent 260 and we can revisit this if we hasve points left.

Ok, next would be troops..

Getting Thousand Sons in at 1000 points is rough, since the Aspiring Sorc = Expensive :( Going for straight fluff, we get 8 TS + 1 AS + Bolt of Change (Since I like the anti-light vehicle option) = 269 points. It is probably arguable of the TS needs some mobility, in my experience you need to decide that in a sieze or capture mission if the TS unit will be responsible for the near objective or far objective. Lets say due to point limits that the TS will be for near (your) side objects, so they dont need mobility

8 TS + 1 AS + Bolt of Change= 269

If you decide they need to take far objectives, give them a Rhino for +35.

Now we need a second troop.

Lets go with what you have, 10 CSM, I like Power Fists and Melta Guns, so I would go with something like:

10 CSM (1 Aspiring Champ w/ Power Claw, 1 Melta, IoCG) = 220 points

That unit is on the move, so its hard for me to justify the heavy weapon, but if you wanted you could add another weapon, since its 10 strong, but I will leave as is for now and see what extrra points I have at the end.


So so far we have spent 749 points, leaving 250 to go.

I really like the Vindicator, and I prefer them with Daemonic Possession.

1 Vindicator (w/ Daemonic Possession) = 145 points

894 total, 106 left.

While I am not a fan, that leaves us with enough for the Predator with HB Sponsons

Predator, HB Sponsons - 100pts

994 total..

So its still a fragile list, imo, but at 1000 points and the desire to use what you have painted its hard to optomize, but this would probably be close to what I would create with those restrictions.

Welcome to 40K. Get used to buying models, converting and painting them until they become your favorite mini in your whole collection... and then leaving them on the shelf.

BTW you are a sick painter guy!

Thanks Absolute, Deuce.

The list breakdown was very helpful, it's actually where I think Id like to head with the army, and just build it up from there.

Thanks for the painting critique Deauce, after 11 odd years I like to think I have something to show for it, lol. (because it isnt army building haha).

T-