Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Thor. I was ASKED TO SHIFT.
And remarking ion chance? What kind of abject silliness is that?

@ferrett - for a guy running that quiet thus far today that was a quick reaction the instant I put a vote on you. Was it pure chance, or did you just have absolutely zero opinion on whether or not the doc should claim?

Both actually. You posted during one of my highly online times. And I believe pushing the doctor to claim will just have to bunch of you disbelieve him as soon as it becomes convenient. So him claiming now or 50 years in the future makes diddly action.

Oh, alright. You guys are no fun . Not_u, did you get my hint below, or was it coincidence that you said in your next post "There will be clues, we just need to open our eyes and look for them harder."

RiTides wrote:I'm not sure, though. At the moment, we still don't have any clue who the killers are, apparently. Making the doctor reveal themselves could help with that... The downside is we then likely lose the doctor this night. Having him wait till tomorrow might not help our odds much... Especially if we mislynch. Doing that should be our biggest concern, I think. On the other hand, a reveal right now would give us more information to lynch correctly... Can't really decide to be honest. This could be a side effect of the crazy work week I've had . Or the fact that all my suspicions so far have proven wrong. Really, does anyone have a strong suspicion (with supporting evidence) now that we've lynched wrong again?

"I am the doctor"

The reason I didn't think revealing would help much, is that I have not been much suspected, and neither has the person I protected last night: not_u. I protected him because he was the only person other than Thor not to vote for the flalse lynch, and he was also relatively unsuspected- which seemed to be the killer's pattern, based on their random killing of Fifty.

I am probably dead tonight, so I'm going to enjoy the game while it lasts. Shame on you guys for not picking up on my hint . Although it wasn't really going to help, anyway, since if a killer picked up on it I'd be just as dead, and we couldn't have as relevant of a discussion.

Thor- I think you need to explain yourself, since you suggested us switching and killing Mordoskul. It was the wrong choice, and you've been awfully lynch-happy.

Also, perhaps now knowing the killing pattern so far (Fifty, attempt on not_u) will give people a hint as to who the killers are, maybe based on past game behaviors? They're killing all of the bystanders and none of the outspoken suspects.

So there are 2 killers amongst these 5:

Drk_O
Rusty
ferret
WarOrk
Thor

RiTides wrote:Thor- I think you need to explain yourself, since you suggested us switching and killing Mordoskul. It was the wrong choice, and you've been awfully lynch-happy.

1. I've already explained how we win by lynching - if that makes me lynch happy than I am lynch happy and I would ask why aren't more people.

2. I need to explain myself? For what? Wanting to get Drk_O or Mordo lynched? (and for the record I wanted Drk_O, not Mordo so I don't know where you're coming from here).

And, yeah, you are dead tomorrow night but such is the life of a peon in Warhammie's grim darkness of gothic grimness. Thanks for clearing n0t_u though, that will be helpful.

We now have five options for a lynch, let's be lynch happy and lynch one of them.

Regarding #2, this is from last page:

Thor wrote:We are in a 2 way tie and deadline is tomorrow. If there is no motion from any of the rest of you I will unvote Drk_O and vote Mordo to ensure a lynch.

In your post before that, you had asked Mordoskul and ferret to change their votes to ensure a lynch.

Regarding #1: I think this is fairly obvious, but I'll say it anyway: lynching ONLY helps if we lynch correctly. So far, we're down 2 people due to bad lynches, one of whom was the detective. We'd have another round to go if we'd simply gone with no lynch.

I'm not saying no lynch is the way to go... I just think rushing into a lynch isn't the best strategy at this point.

What do you guys think of the killers' pattern so far? First Fifty, then not_u? Obviously going for those contributing less / those are a little suspected... in not_u's case he was the only one other than Thor not to vote for Mordoskul's lynch.

In my last sentence above, it should read "those who are little suspected".

I'm also going to go with my gut at this point, although I am really open to anything. Thor your reponse does not address my question at all, only fires back and continues campaigning to lynch as many people as possible...

This makes me suspect you. Either the killers are simply keeping quiet and letting things happen (ferret, WarOrk) or narrowly survived last time (Drk_O) or are driving things (Thor, and in the past Rusty, although he's been really quiet lately).

It could be any combination, unfortunately... but your actions have resulted in much harm to the town, Thor, so I have to suspect you. That and your answer above is really odd for someone who is innocent, in my opinion. It's like trying to goad us into a frenzy. I went along with things last round, and I think Mordoskul was crazy not to offer a better defense, but you were the one who convinced me to start voting along that path, and particularly the one who convinced me in the end (based on the section I quoted above) to switch votes and ensure a lynch.

Vote: Thor665

Otherwise, I would still suspect Drk_O, and maybe we got really unlucky last time (probably helped by the killers themselves leading our votes astray) in not lynching him and lynching Mordoskul. But I have to look at the person who was driving that lynch, and in the end, despite his convenient lack of casting the death-blow vote himself, it was Thor.

I would also point out that, assuming the killers wanted to vote for someone who looked innocent (rather than guilty) there were only 2 who didn't vote for Mordo: not_u, and Thor. not_u was voted for, and obviously if Thor was a killer he wasn't even an option.

(Sorry for my lack of responses lately, I've been helping a friend move. Hooray for friends living in walking distance )


There's something that's been bugging me this game, but I haven't been able to put my finger on it. Until now that is.

I know this may seem unreasonable, but I'm 100% certain, that Thor is scum. Thor's game plan is the same sure, he's a major source of daily activity, and a giant unremovable thorne in my eye. The only real difference to tell whether he is scum or not, is that, he's still alive.

Everytime Thor is a protown role, he gets Nightlynched by Day 3 if not 2. He doesn't seem that dead to me, unless he's a zombie. Scum are usually that afraid of him.

Now him being alive isn't my only reason, he could still be town and the scum could be keeping him alive so someone could come to this line of reasoning. Another reason is his last post here.

When has Thor ever immediately beleived anyone in these games? For all we now, Ri and n0t_u could be partners, and now Thor would have set us down the road to Face Flag City. Named so after it's lovely set of flags made of our townie faces. My point is it's like Thor beleived that Ri is the Doctor because he said he protected n0t_u. If the scum were going after the players who weren't saying much, why not nightkill WARORK?

And now, Thor is trying to find the Doctor, the only player that has a chance of helping town turn things around, and seems convinced to have found them.

So tell me Thor why do you keep checking your watch?

Vote: Thor665

Wow, ninja'd 4 times by RiTides ^_^"

I didn't notice it took me ages to write that...

RiTides wrote:Regarding #2, this is from last page:

Thor wrote:We are in a 2 way tie and deadline is tomorrow. If there is no motion from any of the rest of you I will unvote Drk_O and vote Mordo to ensure a lynch.

In your post before that, you had asked Mordoskul and ferret to change their votes to ensure a lynch.

Um, yeah, so I would rather lynch Mordo than no lynch at all and I would rather lynch Drk_O over Mordo - I don't see how this doesn't go along with what I said insomuch as I wasn't trying to get Mordo lynched, I was trying to get Drk_O lynched (and, wow, look who is buddying up all super excited with you to vote me - shock).

RiTides wrote:I'm also going to go with my gut at this point, although I am really open to anything. Thor your reponse does not address my question at all, only fires back and continues campaigning to lynch as many people as possible...

I think it did respond to your question - could you restate the question I avoided?

RiTides wrote:... but your actions have resulted in much harm to the town, Thor, so I have to suspect you. That and your answer above is really odd for someone who is innocent, in my opinion. It's like trying to goad us into a frenzy.

Seriously? Never mind that you voted to lynch someone who was town, it's all *my* fault? And here I was driving us to a wild frenzy of unsafe speed...as we barely managed the lynch prior to the deadline. I'm fine that you suspect me insomuch as I'm one of the final five, but your case is really made up out of nothingness. Look at what you're saying and reassess, please.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:When has Thor ever immediately beleived anyone in these games? For all we now, Ri and n0t_u could be partners, and now Thor would have set us down the road to Face Flag City.

It's silly to believe RTides and n0t_u are town and not the scum team baiting us.
Vote Thor.

Glad you've got the support of such obvious town there, RTides.

RiTides wrote: Not_u, did you get my hint below, or was it coincidence that you said in your next post "There will be clues, we just need to open our eyes and look for them harder."

Yeh, I'm kind of surprised some of the others missed it.

Actually, I guess I kind of assumed Thor would get it and drop off the issue knowing what he needed to know rather than alert everyone to it as he does seem pretty capable of leading everyone around as evident in most of the previous games he was a player in. Yet that doubt does still come in with the reveal. Really there's nothing to it but assumptions, to just assume Ri is telling the truth. To assume that Thor is just masquerading around as an innocent and not scum gleefully leading the rest to their deaths.

Though he did show a rather interesting bit of information. He protected me, but I shouldn't even be a target to the scum if I don't post much right? Why wouldn't they go after the more obvious choices? If they killed Thor, Rusty might be used as a scape goat or perhaps Ferret. The other could be the same too, yet I'm not entirely sure who could be the scapegoat if Ferret was night killed.

So then, why didn't they go after the few actually capable of defeating them? Are they over confident? Is Ri just lying? Or perhaps they are none other than Thor, Rusty or Ferret? Is it just Drk_O with more of his blood lust against me? So many questions come up from it, but the answer can really only be assumed.

Perhaps Thor's campaigning to get the Doctor revealed was his way to get them out of the way easier. After all how many of those night kills seem to have failed so far?

I guess I have to think about it a bit more.

Ninja'd by Thor.

I shall remain silent until Thorr acknowledges the answer to the question he asked and either rebuts it or gets his foot off my balls. They're a little purple at the moment, thanks.

Thor665 wrote:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:When has Thor ever immediately beleived anyone in these games? For all we now, Ri and n0t_u could be partners, and now Thor would have set us down the road to Face Flag City.

It's silly to believe RTides and n0t_u are town and not the scum team baiting us.
Vote Thor.

Glad you've got the support of such obvious town there, RTides.

You've misunderstood, that statement was more theoretical. Either I'm reading what your saying wrong, but you seem to 100% beleive it. Not 51%. If I said I was the doctor, would you beleive me? I'm not a good example, you'd get me voted off to find out. But if anyone came out and said "I'm the doctor and I protected x"?

I'm about 75% sure Ri is telling the truth. It's not like I'm really the doctor and I know better. But you seem sure, and I know you're scum, you're the only one who can confirm who really is the doctor by them saying who they protected. I'd be 99% sure if I didn't know you were smart enough to try and throw anyone with even a inkling of doubt against you.

n0t_u wrote:Is it just Drk_O with more of his blood lust against me?

Dearest Brother, I explained why I kept voting for you. I was trying to get you talking.

the_ferrett wrote:Both actually. You posted during one of my highly online times. And I believe pushing the doctor to claim will just have to bunch of you disbelieve him as soon as it becomes convenient. So him claiming now or 50 years in the future makes diddly action.

Why would we disbelieve the doctor? If a false doctor claims, the real doctor HAS to claim. In that case, we know one of the two scum is claiming to be a doctor. Furthermore, the scum commits suicide by false claiming, making the chances of a false doctor claim slim. Your fears are dumb; I find your fear scummy.

RiTides wrote:Regarding #2, this is from last page:

In your post before that, you had asked Mordoskul and ferret to change their votes to ensure a lynch.

Regarding #1: I think this is fairly obvious, but I'll say it anyway: lynching ONLY helps if we lynch correctly. So far, we're down 2 people due to bad lynches, one of whom was the detective. We'd have another round to go if we'd simply gone with no lynch.

I'm not saying no lynch is the way to go... I just think rushing into a lynch isn't the best strategy at this point.

What do you guys think of the killers' pattern so far? First Fifty, then not_u? Obviously going for those contributing less / those are a little suspected... in not_u's case he was the only one other than Thor not to vote for Mordoskul's lynch.

Thor told them to change votes so that we could get a lynch. Why is that all that scummy?

We can't lynch correctly if we don't lynch at all. Without an investigator, we're reduced to making educated guesses based on clues from the discussion/night kills.

Killing of quiet people makes sense. There's little evidence to lynch them on, whereas people like Thor and myself have hordes of posts and actions to go back through and interpret.

RiTides wrote:This makes me suspect you. Either the killers are simply keeping quiet and letting things happen (ferret, WarOrk) or narrowly survived last time (Drk_O) or are driving things (Thor, and in the past Rusty, although he's been really quiet lately).

It could be any combination, unfortunately... but your actions have resulted in much harm to the town, Thor, so I have to suspect you. That and your answer above is really odd for someone who is innocent, in my opinion. It's like trying to goad us into a frenzy. I went along with things last round, and I think Mordoskul was crazy not to offer a better defense, but you were the one who convinced me to start voting along that path, and particularly the one who convinced me in the end (based on the section I quoted above) to switch votes and ensure a lynch.

Vote: Thor665

Otherwise, I would still suspect Drk_O, and maybe we got really unlucky last time (probably helped by the killers themselves leading our votes astray) in not lynching him and lynching Mordoskul. But I have to look at the person who was driving that lynch, and in the end, despite his convenient lack of casting the death-blow vote himself, it was Thor.

I was the one pushing for a Mordoskul lynch in the first place. Without that, Drk_O would've died yesterday (probably). To assign blame to Thor and not me is rather strange.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:I know this may seem unreasonable, but I'm 100% certain, that Thor is scum. Thor's game plan is the same sure, he's a major source of daily activity, and a giant unremovable thorne in my eye. The only real difference to tell whether he is scum or not, is that, he's still alive.

Everytime Thor is a protown role, he gets Nightlynched by Day 3 if not 2. He doesn't seem that dead to me, unless he's a zombie. Scum are usually that afraid of him.

Now him being alive isn't my only reason, he could still be town and the scum could be keeping him alive so someone could come to this line of reasoning. Another reason is his last post here.

When has Thor ever immediately beleived anyone in these games? For all we now, Ri and n0t_u could be partners, and now Thor would have set us down the road to Face Flag City. Named so after it's lovely set of flags made of our townie faces. My point is it's like Thor beleived that Ri is the Doctor because he said he protected n0t_u. If the scum were going after the players who weren't saying much, why not nightkill WARORK?

And now, Thor is trying to find the Doctor, the only player that has a chance of helping town turn things around, and seems convinced to have found them.

Thor is scum because he's not dead? Terrible reasoning. He could be alive because the scum thought he would be easier to lynch today than others (say WARORK or n0t_u).

Thor believes RiTides because of the reasoning I've given above for the_ferrett (at least I assume so, he could have an alternate line of reasoning, but I haven't thought it). Why are you and the_ferrett both using the same crappy arguments?

I wanted to find the doctor as well.

n0t_u wrote:
Though he did show a rather interesting bit of information. He protected me, but I shouldn't even be a target to the scum if I don't post much right? Why wouldn't they go after the more obvious choices? If they killed Thor, Rusty might be used as a scape goat or perhaps Ferret. The other could be the same too, yet I'm not entirely sure who could be the scapegoat if Ferret was night killed.

So then, why didn't they go after the few actually capable of defeating them? Are they over confident? Is Ri just lying? Or perhaps they are none other than Thor, Rusty or Ferret? Is it just Drk_O with more of his blood lust against me? So many questions come up from it, but the answer can really only be assumed.

Perhaps Thor's campaigning to get the Doctor revealed was his way to get them out of the way easier. After all how many of those night kills seem to have failed so far?

I guess I have to think about it a bit more.

Assume that RiTides isn't lying (either he isn't, or our doctor wants us to lose).

I've already talked about night killing quiet people (above).

One night kill has failed. That's a dumb question. Finding out who the doctor is helps us more than hurts us. Based on that alone I'm thinking Thor is pro-town.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

Thor665 wrote:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:When has Thor ever immediately beleived anyone in these games? For all we now, Ri and n0t_u could be partners, and now Thor would have set us down the road to Face Flag City.

It's silly to believe RTides and n0t_u are town and not the scum team baiting us.
Vote Thor.

Glad you've got the support of such obvious town there, RTides.

You've misunderstood, that statement was more theoretical. Either I'm reading what your saying wrong, but you seem to 100% beleive it. Not 51%. If I said I was the doctor, would you beleive me? I'm not a good example, you'd get me voted off to find out. But if anyone came out and said "I'm the doctor and I protected x"?

I'm about 75% sure Ri is telling the truth. It's not like I'm really the doctor and I know better. But you seem sure, and I know you're scum, you're the only one who can confirm who really is the doctor by them saying who they protected. I'd be 99% sure if I didn't know you were smart enough to try and throw anyone with even a inkling of doubt against you.

I'm not going to restate the logic behind Thor's belief of RiTides claim. I just want to chime in that your line about Face Flag city implies that RiTides and n0t_u are the scum and that Thor is just an unwitting accomplice. That doesn't really fit with the rest of your argument.
---
Vote: Drk_Oblitr8r

Of the five options, I know I'm not scum, and, due to his defending me yesterday, I'm willing to bet WARORK isn't as well. I've already mentioned why I doubt Thor's scumminess. That leaves me with the_ferrett and Drk_O.

I apologise on my wording of that then. If it was only one person, then they didn't read it properly, 2 or more and I wasn't clear. I meant that I find Thor's acceptance of it unnerving.

I feel your wasting your vote on me, but I'm sure the_ferrett isn't scum, and you have solid reasons against everyone else.

It's like I said yesterphase, I normally don't try building cases against Thor, because it usually backfires on me. But I'm still certain that he is scum/one of the badguys.

Current Voting Situation
0 - n0t_u
1 - Drk_Oblitr8r (RustyKnight)
0 - RustyKnight
1 - the_ferrett (Thor665)
0 - WARORK93
0 - RiTides
2 - Thor665 (RiTides, Drk_Oblitr8r)

0 - No lynch

Not voting (n0t_u, the_ferrett, WARORK93)
Not posted during Day 3 (-)

If the day ended now, Thor665 would be lynched

With SEVEN alive it takes FOUR to lynch before the deadline is reached

Day 3 ends at 1800 BST 20th April 2011 [8 Days 4 Hours 25 Minutes]

Thor665 votes the_ferrett
RiTides votes Thor665
Drk_Oblitr8r votes Thor665
RustyKnight votes Drk_Oblitr8r

Why is it scummy to believe you're a bloodythirsty nut who would throw your family infront of a bus to get what you need? (All insults are IC and I respect the lot of you.... just not in this game.)

Who are you referring to, ferrett? I'm not quite following...

Rusty: For some reason, I'm inclined to believe your reasoning. I will be rather upset at myself if you are scum in the end... however, I am not all that convinced about ferret.

Drk_O, I suspected, but it can't be both him and Thor. So I am at a bit of a loss as to who my next suspect is... if we lynch and it's not Thor, Drk_O would be highly suspect. But I think it's Thor.

As to his possible accomplice, I have no idea currently... ferrett I believe you top my list at the moment, but mostly due to the fact that if I think Thor is scum, it pretty much clear Drk_O.

When I was referring to Rusty's reasoning above, I meant all of it- except Thor's innocence. That, obviously, I'm not convinced about, given my vote... Drk_O's line of reasoning makes me sense to me there, which is why I'd be torn between the two if I wasn't leaning towards Thor.

Thor's goading us into the last vote, which he would happily follow with a lynch of Drk_O, makes me think the pattern needs to be stopped. I don't know if he's scum for sure, but in my opinion if he's town he's the town causing the most harm, and the one I would feel the least bad about incorrectly lynching... although it would be exceedingly helpful to get our lynch right this time...

the_ferrett wrote:I shall remain silent until Thorr acknowledges the answer to the question he asked and either rebuts it or gets his foot off my balls. They're a little purple at the moment, thanks.

Wasn't your "answer" basically a 'You told me to vote Mordo!" which is actually a passing of the blame. I find acceptance of one's actions is usually a pro town merit.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:If I said I was the doctor, would you beleive me? I'm not a good example, you'd get me voted off to find out. But if anyone came out and said "I'm the doctor and I protected x"?

You're a perfect example, because if you claimed Doc I *would* get you lynched and have an easy win of it because I'd already have half the scum team dead.
That's the crux - if anyone else claims Doc then we lynch either RTides or the other doc. One of them will be scum and we have enough lynches to find out who.

RiTides wrote:Thor's goading us into the last vote, which he would happily follow with a lynch of Drk_O, makes me think the pattern needs to be stopped. I don't know if he's scum for sure, but in my opinion if he's town he's the town causing the most harm, and the one I would feel the least bad about incorrectly lynching

You are so narrow visioned it hurts. I'm not doing "harm" except insomuch as I haven't been provably right with any lynches yet. Here's a newsflash - no one else has either. You're running me up as guilty simply because I haven't perfectly pegged scum - and that's not scummy, that's human. Open your eyes, notice how bad the ferrett/Drk_O pairing looks, and recognize they're a smart lynch, not a 'Thor is coo-coo for lynchings' lynch.

I support Rusty's action on Drk_O

Unvote: ferrett
Vote: Drk_O

ferrett can wait till tomorrow (and, yes, RTides, I'll be all about lynching ferrett tomorrow if Drk_O flips scum)

Looks like I have mission impending doom 2 nights from this one.... won't Rusty be so proud. That's only, 3/4 more nights than his last 'success'?

So you're admitting awareness of Drk_O flipping scum?

Yeah, and there sits Drk_O desperately clinging to silly town RTides - proof is in the pudding.

Thor, Drk_O always had a high probability of flipping scum. There just has never been any proof. Not supposition, proof.
Given, and its a large given with no hard data, that the doc is the doc (I'd be happier if we were making doc based votes based on a day's worth of data), then yes, Drk_O becomes a more stastically viable choice. Averagely he's going to turn up scum. You'll still waste a day eliminating me, so the scum will be one closer, but that's a likelihood none of us can escape, least of all me.

the_ferrett wrote:That's only, 3/4 more nights than his last 'success'?

What?

the_ferrett wrote:Thor, Drk_O always had a high probability of flipping scum.

Aside from a reference right before you voted for Mordo, I think this is the first time you've voiced a suspicion of Drk_o. Why the sudden shift?

the_ferrett wrote:proof...hard data

We can never have these (unless we're the investigator or someone dies). Bemoaning our lack is pointless.

the_ferrett wrote:Given, and its a large given with no hard data, that the doc is the doc (I'd be happier if we were making doc based votes based on a day's worth of data),

Firstly, we've already explained why we believe RiTides is the doc. Secondly, what would a second day grant you? RiTides gets nightkilled and we get the only hard evidence we'll get?

the_ferrett wrote:Drk_O becomes a more stastically viable choice

1/4 isn't that much larger than 1/6.

the_ferrett wrote:Averagely he's going to turn up scum.

What?
---
If you're so sure that Drk_O is scum why not vote for him?

RustyKnight wrote:

n0t_u wrote:
Though he did show a rather interesting bit of information. He protected me, but I shouldn't even be a target to the scum if I don't post much right? Why wouldn't they go after the more obvious choices? If they killed Thor, Rusty might be used as a scape goat or perhaps Ferret. The other could be the same too, yet I'm not entirely sure who could be the scapegoat if Ferret was night killed.

So then, why didn't they go after the few actually capable of defeating them? Are they over confident? Is Ri just lying? Or perhaps they are none other than Thor, Rusty or Ferret? Is it just Drk_O with more of his blood lust against me? So many questions come up from it, but the answer can really only be assumed.

Perhaps Thor's campaigning to get the Doctor revealed was his way to get them out of the way easier. After all how many of those night kills seem to have failed so far?

I guess I have to think about it a bit more.

Assume that RiTides isn't lying (either he isn't, or our doctor wants us to lose).

I've already talked about night killing quiet people (above).

One night kill has failed. That's a dumb question. Finding out who the doctor is helps us more than hurts us. Based on that alone I'm thinking Thor is pro-town.

I wasn't making an argument just putting down a few of my thoughts to come back to later so I wouldn't forget them. I also thought they may be useful and forgot about Fifty.

@n0t_u - Things are happening in this thread (TM)

You did sort of notice where ferrett basically claimed scum with Drk_O right? I'm dense and miss Doc claims, but please tell me you saw what I saw, and then tell me how you feel about lynching Drk_O today. Since you're basically confirmed town you should be louder and prouder with your thoughts at this stage because the worst we can say now is "I disagree, you're dumb" but it's still better to get more town thoughts out than not.