Sierk wrote:wasnt it already decided that tabletop measurements werent to be trusted because there out of scale?

King Pariah wrote:

Sierk wrote:wasnt it already decided that tabletop measurements werent to be trusted because there out of scale?

Yes.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:GE = Galactic Empire.

You know, mass effect fleets could most likely beat SW fleets. That longer range desides it. You want a real would example? Battleships. Once they were Kings of the sea. Now their scrap. Due to aircraft carriers could damage them, while staying well out side their range

/thread

Funny how you mention aircraft carrier, since the Mass Effect humans managed to kick a fair number of alien butts with their unique carriers which other race did not have.

Bobthehero wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:GE = Galactic Empire.

You know, mass effect fleets could most likely beat SW fleets. That longer range desides it. You want a real would example? Battleships. Once they were Kings of the sea. Now their scrap. Due to aircraft carriers could damage them, while staying well out side their range

/thread

Funny how you mention aircraft carrier, since the Mass Effect humans managed to kick a fair number of alien butts with their unique carriers which other race did not have.

Yeah, im replaying mass effect. And so its in my head. I like star wars as i said earlier. But the IoM crub stomps sw.

Andrew1975 wrote:For star wars, no one but heros can hit the broadside of a barn, so most troops would all be BS 1 or 2. But they would be able to shoot across the table!

DeathReaper wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:For star wars, no one but heros can hit the broadside of a barn, so most troops would all be BS 1 or 2. But they would be able to shoot across the table!

Really? The Imperials made quick work of the Hoth base with their shooting, They hit plenty of entrenched rebels.

They just suck when rolling to hit IC's like Luke and Han.

Andrew1975 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:For star wars, no one but heros can hit the broadside of a barn, so most troops would all be BS 1 or 2. But they would be able to shoot across the table!

Really? The Imperials made quick work of the Hoth base with their shooting, They hit plenty of entrenched rebels.

They just suck when rolling to hit IC's like Luke and Han.

You never actually see that though. You see the at-ats, then the snowtroopers in the base. I would have loved to see that shoot out. The most effective shooting you really see by troops in star wars (well episodes iv-vi, the only ones I will admit too, including the garbage re dos) is the boarding scene in IV. The storm troopers make pretty quick work out of an entrenched foe who I would compare to guardsmen.

Alexzandvar wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:For star wars, no one but heros can hit the broadside of a barn, so most troops would all be BS 1 or 2. But they would be able to shoot across the table!

Really? The Imperials made quick work of the Hoth base with their shooting, They hit plenty of entrenched rebels.

They just suck when rolling to hit IC's like Luke and Han.

You never actually see that though. You see the at-ats, then the snowtroopers in the base. I would have loved to see that shoot out. The most effective shooting you really see by troops in star wars (well episodes iv-vi, the only ones I will admit too, including the garbage re dos) is the boarding scene in IV. The storm troopers make pretty quick work out of an entrenched foe who I would compare to guardsmen.

Yes but what would happen if instead of 10 rebel troopers with little to no body armor you had 500 Imperial Guardsmen with flak armor and Las-guns and bolters breathing down your neck?

Andrew1975 wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:For star wars, no one but heros can hit the broadside of a barn, so most troops would all be BS 1 or 2. But they would be able to shoot across the table!

Really? The Imperials made quick work of the Hoth base with their shooting, They hit plenty of entrenched rebels.

They just suck when rolling to hit IC's like Luke and Han.

You never actually see that though. You see the at-ats, then the snowtroopers in the base. I would have loved to see that shoot out. The most effective shooting you really see by troops in star wars (well episodes iv-vi, the only ones I will admit too, including the garbage re dos) is the boarding scene in IV. The storm troopers make pretty quick work out of an entrenched foe who I would compare to guardsmen.

Yes but what would happen if instead of 10 rebel troopers with little to no body armor you had 500 Imperial Guardsmen with flak armor and Las-guns and bolters breathing down your neck?

First off guardsmen don't get bolters. They may get heavy bolters which would suck at boarding. I really see little difference from guard armor and rebel armor, catachan minis don't even wear armor, so ill count the rebels in helmets and vests as the same. Storm troopers would have the equivalent of carapace armor as a comparison.

The blockade runner that was being boarded did not hold hundereds of troops, so stuffing 500 guardsmen in there is not really an option.

Alexzandvar wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:For star wars, no one but heros can hit the broadside of a barn, so most troops would all be BS 1 or 2. But they would be able to shoot across the table!

Really? The Imperials made quick work of the Hoth base with their shooting, They hit plenty of entrenched rebels.

They just suck when rolling to hit IC's like Luke and Han.

You never actually see that though. You see the at-ats, then the snowtroopers in the base. I would have loved to see that shoot out. The most effective shooting you really see by troops in star wars (well episodes iv-vi, the only ones I will admit too, including the garbage re dos) is the boarding scene in IV. The storm troopers make pretty quick work out of an entrenched foe who I would compare to guardsmen.

Yes but what would happen if instead of 10 rebel troopers with little to no body armor you had 500 Imperial Guardsmen with flak armor and Las-guns and bolters breathing down your neck?

First off guardsmen don't get bolters. They may get heavy bolters which would suck at boarding. I really see little difference from guard armor and rebel armor, catachan minis don't even wear armor, so ill count the rebels in helmets and vests as the same. Storm troopers would have the equivalent of carapace armor as a comparison.

The blockade runner that was being boarded did not hold hundereds of troops, so stuffing 500 guardsmen in there is not really an option.

1. The Guards flak armor is not "card board" like the games or jokes would have you believe

2. Yes Guardsmen can use and get bolters, they are often for special or veteran units.

3. What I meant was you will never have just 10 Guardsmen in a Crusade going up against an equal number of enemies. The Empire just does not have the troops, they will lose due to attrition.

Andrew1975 wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:For star wars, no one but heros can hit the broadside of a barn, so most troops would all be BS 1 or 2. But they would be able to shoot across the table!

Really? The Imperials made quick work of the Hoth base with their shooting, They hit plenty of entrenched rebels.

They just suck when rolling to hit IC's like Luke and Han.

You never actually see that though. You see the at-ats, then the snowtroopers in the base. I would have loved to see that shoot out. The most effective shooting you really see by troops in star wars (well episodes iv-vi, the only ones I will admit too, including the garbage re dos) is the boarding scene in IV. The storm troopers make pretty quick work out of an entrenched foe who I would compare to guardsmen.

Yes but what would happen if instead of 10 rebel troopers with little to no body armor you had 500 Imperial Guardsmen with flak armor and Las-guns and bolters breathing down your neck?

First off guardsmen don't get bolters. They may get heavy bolters which would suck at boarding. I really see little difference from guard armor and rebel armor, catachan minis don't even wear armor, so ill count the rebels in helmets and vests as the same. Storm troopers would have the equivalent of carapace armor as a comparison.

The blockade runner that was being boarded did not hold hundereds of troops, so stuffing 500 guardsmen in there is not really an option.

1. The Guards flak armor is not "card board" like the games or jokes would have you believe

2. Yes Guardsmen can use and get bolters, they are often for special or veteran units.

3. What I meant was you will never have just 10 Guardsmen in a Crusade going up against an equal number of enemies. The Empire just does not have the troops, they will lose due to attrition.

Sorry but again, my criteria for cannon is movie and game, that's it. Keep it simple, too many argument if you include everything. No supplements, no fan fiction. Show me a mini a of a guardsman with a bolt gun that's not from 2nd ed? I've seen seargent's with bolt pistols, but no bolt guns. There is the hot shot or whatever they are calling it today....but it is still not a bolt gun. While stormtrooper accuracy is up for debate, it looks like it sucks, but Kanobi says "only storm troopers are so precise", so I'll meet in the middle and give them a bs of 3, the big difference is that starwars range is much better, where as gw has about a 50 yard average.

Again you have to understand I don't really care, I think it's funny, everybody is constantly moving goal posts here for an argument that is completely worthless.

It is the whole superman vs mightymouse argument. It's silly. I just find it amusing the lengths people will go, and the crap that they will make up.

Fire Support Squads

Armed with Heavy Bolters or Autocannons, these squads can suppress enemy infantry and even neutralize light vehicles.

Anti-tank Support Squads

Armed with Lascannons or Missile Launchers, these squads are principally used to kill enemy armour or similar high-priority targets.

Mortar Support Squads

Armed with anti-personnel Mortars, these squads are primarily used for long-range suppression or harassing fire.

Special Weapons Squad

These squads are still typically six Guardsmen strong, but field man-portable special weapons rather than the larger crew-operated heavy weapons. Only 3 Guardsmen are allowed to carry special weapons, with the remaining three operating as ammunition carriers. The special weapons available to these squads include Meltaguns, Flamers, Grenade Launchers, Sniper Rifles or a Demolition Charge.1

Support squads are often either attached to a Command Platoon or formed up into Heavy Weapons Platoons, generating considerable massed firepower.1 Heavy Weapons Support Squads are often set up entrenched in a defensive position, or set up behind sandbags.3

Hardened Veteran Squad

A Hardened Veteran squad is an elite Imperial Guard unit made up of battle-hardened veterans of many long wars. Such veteran units tend to be low in numbers but their versatility makes them a valuable addition to any army.1-p42

As a regiment is progressively eroded through combat until only the toughest and luckiest remain, these remainders end up becoming hardened veterans, men who have survived long enough to become especially proficient at war. They have often picked up a number of unique battle skills and are far more individualistic than normal Guardsmen, given freer reign than normal Guardsmen, and provide valuable experience on the battlefield.1-p42

A squad notionally consists of between four and nine veteran Guardsmen and one Sergeant. Sergeants of these squads are often equipped with equipment typically rated 'Officer-Only', either due to being given access to such equipment in the armoury by their superiors, or having scavenged it from the battlefield and being allowed to retain it. Indeed, the weapon outfit of a veteran Guardsmen squad can vary massively.1-p42

Veterans are often acquired by Inquisitors to form part of their Inquisitorial retinue when extra power and skill are needed

Weapons

The primary weapon of the Imperial Guard is the Lasgun but Guardsmen are very versatile and can be trained in the use of many different weapons. The standard issued types are:

Autocannon
Flamer
Grenade launcher
Heavy bolter
Lascannon
Meltagun
Missile launcher
Mortar
Plasma gun

They are also commonly armed with Frag and Krak Grenades to aid them in dealing with unexpected threats they come across during a battle.

Lasgun
1
Standard Cadian pattern Lasgun

The Lasgun is an energy based weapon, and is the most common and widely used type of laser weapon in the Imperium. It is standard issue for all Imperial Guard infantry and most lower-ranked officers. Lasguns are reliable, easy to maintain and produce, and are readily available on most Imperial worlds. They have longer range and higher ammunition capacity than a Laspistol (the laspistol power packs having roughly 80 shots before depletion, compared to roughly 150 shots for a lasgun)5, but are nowhere near as powerful as a Lascannon. They also lack the rapid fire quality of the Multi-laser or the Hellgun.

The lasgun uses the same basic technology and operates along the same lines as other las weapons, emitting a beam of focused light. The high amount of energy in the beam causes the immediate surface area of a target to be vaporized in a small explosion1. It is a relatively unimpressive weapon when compared to other weapons in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, but is still capable of cleanly severing limbs or piercing the power armour of a Space Marine (but only through a vulnerable spot in the armour). Most designs have iron sights mounted along the top of the weapon. It is powered by a small, rechargeable power pack located beneath the weapon, in front of the trigger guard. The pack can be recharged in many ways, including sunlight. It can also be "overcharged," a trick used by Guard veterans that causes the pack to explode, turning the weapon into a makeshift grenade. This tactic is only used in last ditch situations as it results in the destruction of the weapon. The resultant explosion, however, is powerful enough to crack open the frontal armor of a Chaos Dreadnought.3 Lasguns have several lethality settings that adjust the damage of each shot in order to conserve power (weaker settings use less energy) or disable rather than kill a target. The weapon can also be fitted with a "Hotshot" pack, providing more powerful but less numerous shots.

The lasgun features a bayonet lug, allowing the weapon to be fitted with bayonets or combat knives. The sniper variant of the lasgun, known as the long-las, is the preferred weapon of Imperial Guard sharpshooters. The barrel of the long-las is extended to bolster the weapon's accuracy. The barrel requires replacement every 20-50 shots depending on the power setting and cool down time. For this reason, the long-las is outfitted with a "slide-lock" barrel, which is easily locked and unlocked from the weapon's housing.

The standard pattern is known as the "M-Galaxy," although hundreds of thousands of variants exist; the Cadian variant differs greatly from that used by the Tallarn Desert Raiders, Tanith First and Only or Elysian Drop Troops. The M-Galaxy was first put into use in 2546789.M352.

Laser weapons emit a highly focused beam of light. The short duration high energy beam produces such a rapid temperature change on the target's surface that it vaporises in a small explosion.

Lasguns fire with a searing flash of light and the distinctive snap or crack of ionised air, each pull of the trigger firing a single shot.

Rechargeable power packs feed the discharge generator. Power packs usually possess a highly efficient liquid metal core and vary from small internal packs for lasguns and pistols, to crate sized for lascannons and larger las weapons. Most light power packs provide forty shots, compared to the lascannon packs which are good for only one shot. Las weapons can be overpowered with "Hotshot" power packs, providing more power but less shots. Hotshot packs cannot easily be recharged and the extra stress put on the barrel requires much more maintenance. Power packs can be easily recharged by exposing them to heat, or sunlight through solar converters. In an emergency a pack can be placed in a fire and quickly recharged, although this method shortens the life of the pack and can destroy it altogether.

Star Wars Clones
Republic Gunships but are kinda pathetic and are easily destroyed by missiles.
Artillery Units, Extremely powerful but are easily destroyed by a few slavos. Can shoot a beam of energy but have to recharge weapons which takes a few hours if used. Can take down ships if they are close enough. Like below orbit. (Clonewars)
AT-TE Very versatile but is easily destroyed by lancers.

Advanced Recon Force troopers carried out reconnaissance and surveillance for Jedi Generals.[16]
Advanced Recon Commandos performed special reconnaissance missions. Regular clone troopers could be promoted to the rank of ARC trooper.[26]
Alpha-class Advanced Recon Commandos represented the GAR's most elite and deadly soldiers.[6]
Null-class Advanced Recon Commandos, though deemed as failed experiments, were activated as the GAR's lead clone Intelligence units.[3]
Clone assassins were engineered with fast reflexes, trained in stealth, and armed with vibroblades.[59]
Clone commandos trained, lived, and worked together in four unit squads to perform covert operations that were too complex for ordinary troopers. They were regarded as superior units compared to standard clone troopers, though not quite the equals of ARC troopers.[13][8]
Clone blaze troopers were equipped with heavily-armed and armored battle-suits, designed for heavy engagements.[59]
Clone marines were specifically trained to repel Separatist boarding parties, as well as to board and sabotage enemy capital ships.[38]
Covert Ops clone troopers were trained for stealth missions, including assignments that marked clone deserters for summary execution.[17]
Clone ordnance specialist were troopers trained for the disarmament and disposal of explosive weapons.[60]
Clone scout troopers performed reconnaissance and scout missions.[37]
Clone trooper commanders combined enhanced tactical knowledge with advanced combat skills.[1]
MEC trooper, a heavily armed class of clone trooper variants.[61]
Clone shadow troopers were an elite group of stealth units trained for covert operations that pertained to Republic Intelligence jurisdiction.[62]
Clone trooper medics were trained to diagnose and treat wounded soldiers in the field.[63]
The Republic clone trooper's primary weapons for ranged combat were the DC-15A blaster rifle and its more compact counterpart, the DC-15S blaster carbine.[1] In addition, clone troopers often carried one or more grenades of varying types, such as the Merr-Sonn V-1 thermal detonator, LXR-6 concussion grenades, V-6 haywire grenades,[49] and electro magnetic pulse grenades.[13] The pouches and compartments of a trooper's highly functional utility belt contained a multitude of equipment, including a grappling hook, spare ammunition, ration supplies and a rudimentary medical kit containing enough synthflesh and bacta to keep a wounded soldier alive until a medic could arrive

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

Ive nevet said The GE, ive kept it vauge, saying Star Wars, or the Empire, which could mean, the GE, the Imperial Remnaut , the Fel Empire, or the second Galactic Empire. So how about getting some reading comprehension skills, before you insult someone. Okay.

The IoM would win in space, hands down, no contest. The standard ship, the Cruiser is bigger then a Star Destroyer. The Battleships are even bigger. But before you start with "But Mr. Caboose, sw has XY&Z weapons. Yadayadayada." Thats cool and all, but the IoM fights at longer ranges then SW. So all their super turbolasers, and other weapons, no longer factor. What does factor is how fast they can move, and how much punishment they can take. And since IoM ships are faster in Sub light, they will stay out of range. Plus sw ships have no defense against
Psykers. None. And its argued that IoM Gellar Fields would protect against the force.

Dogface 76 wrote:Just to add to the mix.....people claim that the subspace speeds of the SW universe are extremely slow compared to IoM. In the SW Books that i have concerning speeds and such for SW, there were both Atmospheric speeds and then Space Speeds.....claiming that a ship in space only goes 360kph is not really thinking about space travel in general. Dodge Vipers can almost go that fast....
THe Space shuttle is traveling at 17,000mph just to keep it in orbit.
That being said....SW has the Force, IoM has the Warp. IoM has more in the Space Superiority dept...Capitol Ship wise.....but Republic and some Empire fighters were capable of FTL travel all on their own....they do not even have to risk their Carriers in fights....they just make the jump, hit and then run. The Ground forces i think are pretty evenly matched....with SW having more types of troops (all the myriad races and cultures) while the IoM is human based but having the numbers to ground down all opponents.

BlaxicanX wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

Ive nevet said The GE, ive kept it vauge, saying Star Wars, or the Empire, which could mean, the GE, the Imperial Remnaut , the Fel Empire, or the second Galactic Empire. So how about getting some reading comprehension skills, before you insult someone. Okay.

How about you make a logical argument, here?

The IoM would win in space, hands down, no contest. The standard ship, the Cruiser is bigger then a Star Destroyer. The Battleships are even bigger. But before you start with "But Mr. Caboose, sw has XY&Z weapons. Yadayadayada." Thats cool and all, but the IoM fights at longer ranges then SW. So all their super turbolasers, and other weapons, no longer factor. What does factor is how fast they can move, and how much punishment they can take. And since IoM ships are faster in Sub light, they will stay out of range. Plus sw ships have no defense against
Psykers. None. And its argued that IoM Gellar Fields would protect against the force.

The Imperium doesn't have any weapons that's range is as long as the galaxy itself, whereas the Galactic Empire does.. So no, they would actually get stomped.

Also, lol @ "geller fields will protect against the force!" Horrible. Geller fields protect against the warp, and nothing but the warp. That's like saying a fireproof suit will protect you against acid.

DeathReaper wrote:The Death Star would make quick work of any IoM ship.

Check that The Death Star would make quick work of ALL IoM ships.

Brother Coa wrote:I think we can all agree that Star Trek is toasted:

kb305 wrote:i know im a nerd and everything but DAMN

Asherian Command wrote:

kb305 wrote:i know im a nerd and everything but DAMN

Nah I just took most of the arguements from Ivanthe Terrible
So not a big nerd just know how to argue.

Jaon wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:The Death Star would make quick work of any IoM ship.

Check that The Death Star would make quick work of ALL IoM ships.

It would make quick work of maybe 3....then Dominus Astra would QUITE EASILY blast it to pieces.

DeathReaper wrote:

Jaon wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:The Death Star would make quick work of any IoM ship.

Check that The Death Star would make quick work of ALL IoM ships.

It would make quick work of maybe 3....then Dominus Astra would QUITE EASILY blast it to pieces.

Then the Galaxy gun kills the rest.

SW wins.