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AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
Now the Federation, or any other race that is in star trek yes 40k would own. But with The Q involved, star trek wins.

No according to this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=posts&action=list&topic_id=403027&viewResults=true

I still find that incredibly biased. Both would be at a standstill and just look at each other angrily.

Q can travel through time at will. The Chaos Gods can't. The End.

The warp is not effected by time in the same way the material world is. There are plenty of stories of ships going through the warp and ending up years before whatever they were going to happened. Not to mention that one time a Warboss wnet back in time and killed his past self to get another copy of his favorite shoota.

Either way, we shouldn't allow omnipotent entities into a vs debate otherwise it desolves into "yah-huh" "nuh-uh"

Either way, we shouldn't allow omnipotent entities into a vs debate otherwise it desolves into "yah-huh" "nuh-uh"

Hasn't that been the general tone of the thread anyway?

Luke_Prowler wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
Now the Federation, or any other race that is in star trek yes 40k would own. But with The Q involved, star trek wins.

No according to this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=posts&action=list&topic_id=403027&viewResults=true

I still find that incredibly biased. Both would be at a standstill and just look at each other angrily.

Q can travel through time at will. The Chaos Gods can't. The End.

The warp is not effected by time in the same way the material world is. There are plenty of stories of ships going through the warp and ending up years before whatever they were going to happened.

Hence the "at will" part.

Blanx, you do realise that chances are, to actually get close enough to fire the Sun Crushers weapon it would have to close to within at LEAST 889,000,000 miles. without being vapourised by the largest defensive structure in the IOM. we are talking defences FROM SATURN!!!!!!! Lets assume that we throw both universe's resources into a single large battle. The IOM has a far larger Navy than the Galactic empire. To quote Cpl. Locklear from Halo:First Strike, A single IOM salvoe would produce "Enough firepower to walk to the LZ"

When can laucnch a wall of Lance/torpedo/fighters/plasma/Phsycic Doom or a battle ship that can consume an entire Hive fleet in the explosion just by detonating its engines then I'll think about conceding a victory in space.

When your precious Imperial stormtroopers meet hundereds of billions of Imperial Guardsmen, One of 2 thiongs will happen.

1. The Storm troopers will lose faith and fall back in complete disarray and be crushed under the boots of said guardsmen.
2.The storm troopers willopen fire, and simply run out of ammo and again either be scythed down by a lot of las-fire or again crushed

Thats without SM's, BT's, the Inquisition, DA and such

There are two other facts about the sun crushers than the people who are branding it as the "insta-win" button against the imperium forget: One, the thing was destroyed, when it was launched into a black hole so that the Empire remnents couldn't get their hands back on it ('cause it got stolen by Han Solo in the novel it appears in). Secondly, it's a fighter class ship, meaning it'd need a fleet to support it, said fleet not nearly as invinvible. It'd be hard to blow up the solar system if the pilot got lost after his support got blown to bits and dies from starvation before getting close to the target.

Attention all Star Wars persons

Yield The damned argument already! You are Outnumbered. Outgunned. If you get to use the G.E. dead resources so do we. that means Primarchs. And The Holy God Emperor. And SM legions. As well as current SM chapters.

Hello Deathstar, Meet 8 (I believe) Blackstone fortresses. and the Imperial Navy. And the combined SM chapter Fleets. And The BT's small armada.

enjoy the last 30-40 seconds of your lives. We, on the other hand,will enjoy the fireworks...

I still don't understand why that if the the Empire has the Suncrusher the Imperium could just warp 1 ship above the Empires capital or Death Stars and detonate the Warp engines?

Also never mind the fact the Empire has no way of stopping the Imperium from using Warp travel because it's about entering another plane of exsistance rather than moving really really fast.

The warp is timeless...it doesn't matter if you can travel through time or not...the Emperor can stop time for short periods...the 40k gods would just ask "Did you do something?".

Asherian Command wrote:
Sorry but I am responding to things that I actually can debate. My idea is that the starwars univeres's sun crusher is already destroyed.

The sun crusher was destroyed by its pilot willingly flying it into a black hole.

The galaxy gun would get pysker pentrated and alpha pyskers unleashed destroying the gun and ending this weapon's life.

They wouldn't be able to do this from the other side of the galaxy. They would have to find it first then get close to it, which is impossible with Imperium tech.

Btw I played Starwars video games and rouge leader and they were destroyed by ion cannons which is the equalvent of a plasma cannon.

Not sure what you're referring to.

The cobra fighters are released in their hundreds (Source BFG) where they slaughter entire captial ships and make quick work of the star destroyers and the rebel forces. Then the ground battle is immedately lost. The gaxaly cannon in ruins as the planet killer immedately one shot kills it. The black stone fortresses destroy the entire corusant and the life eater virus unleashed on the Storm Troopers eating through their armor and decimating the forces of the Empire before they could even launch an attack. The necrons unleash 2 world engines destroying hundreds of thousands.
The Tyranids nom nom the fleets and the Eldar annoy the crap out of the super star destroyers and predicting their movements.
And Papa nurgle hugs his new embracement of nurgle storm troopers and dark troopers as they fall to disease. The star cannon takes time to power up and it was stopped by a jedi if I am not mistaken.
BTW this is just persuming that the orks attacked first. Which would leave a looted super star destroyer and a looted death star XD

What? xD

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Kaldor wrote:lol!

Who cares? You're clutching at straws, son. Lets simply say that the Emperor reacts to the incoming projectile by creating a warp rift for it to fly into.

The Emperor has never shown the ability to do that.

Now, if we're done with dick-measuring and super-weapons, can we get back to comparing troops and ships of the line?

The topic of the thread is "which group would win". I'm not going to ignore established aspects of their armies just because you're too butthurt to admit the Imperium has no answer to the Empire's superweapons, sorry. If you didn't want to discuss such things then you shouldn't have contested my first post in here to begin with.


- - - - - - - -

As for the rest of this stuff about the Emperor creating warp storms and opening black holes and shiz, he's never done any of this in the canon; so it doesn't apply here.

Isn't it suspected that the emperor created a warp storm to protect Sebastian Thor and his forces?

Blax they are accepting what you said and your bringing back machines that cant be remade so why cant we bring back what was disbanded, wounded or killed meaning a full strength emporor, more advanced machines being mass produced like space hulks and the such and the legions.
Im right dont you think?

Death Star: Drstroyed
Death Stat II: Destroyed
Sun Crusher: Destroyed
Galaxy Gun: Destroyed

There. Using current fluff on both. These super weapons are gone and can no longer be brought up. Thank you for playing.

Now we have already determined the IoM would control space, due to superior sub light speed and long range fire power.

The IoM would also dominate ground combat. Due to the superior combat ablities of the Imperial Guard.

Hands down Star Wars loses.

My vote goes to the IoM due to the size of their army.

Storm troopers don't appear any more powerful than a standard guardsman while Star Wars ships seem like they would be around the level of Tau ships or Eldar. This leaves IoM with its massive resources to draw upon to defeat the empire. Remember the IoM has over a million worlds and untold billions of citizens to throw into the fight.

Right and stormtroopers are.the elite of the Empire. They also have the Imperial Army. So yeah, sw gets slaughtered.

Tadashi wrote:The warp is timeless...it doesn't matter if you can travel through time or not...the Emperor can stop time for short periods...the 40k gods would just ask "Did you do something?".

The Q go back in time, stops the War in Heaven, Chaos never gets to exist. Thanks for playing.

I think 40k would beat star wars. However, if we want to compare science fiction universe, then I am sure there is no limit to imagination, so we can't say 40k will beat very other science fic universe out there.

I mean, you could have some science fiction author dream up a multiple galaxy spanning empire with billions of capital space ships, each one tremondous in size, with super powerful shields, guns, etc etc.

There's no end to how big a ship can get, how far a laser can shoot, and how tough a shield can get. And there are no end to the number of world destroying or even system destroying super weapons that our imagination can dream up.

At the extreme level, in one science fic series which I read, even destroying the physical form of the enemy wasn't enough because their true power was in their mind (psychic power, same thing). And their mind was so powerful that the collective minds of an entire race of what is the quivalent of gods (in terms of psychic power) was insufficient to destroy the inner council of the enemy's collective minds.

So, to beat them, they went and nurtured over a span of millions of years many generations of "psykers" from other races (because they had already reached the limit of their own psychic power).

The final apex of the union between two generation spanning male and female super psykers produced 4 women and 1 male. Together, plus all the psykers and the entire "god equivalent" race, they finally beat the "enemy" (Though they had previously already destroyed its physical form).

Just goes to show what happens when you keep on going for bigger and bigger, until you reach a point where you say physical size doesn't matter anymore! lol

BlaxicanX wrote:
Now, if we're done with dick-measuring and super-weapons, can we get back to comparing troops and ships of the line?The topic of the thread is "which group would win". I'm not going to ignore established aspects of their armies just because you're too butthurt to admit the Imperium has no answer to the Empire's superweapons, sorry. If you didn't want to discuss such things then you shouldn't have contested my first post in here to begin with.


- - - - - - - -

As for the rest of this stuff about the Emperor creating warp storms and opening black holes and shiz, he's never done any of this in the canon; so it doesn't apply here.

DeathReaper wrote:

Kaldor wrote:The models themselves are not to scale. The rulebook states that obviously battles in space are conducted at such distances that no models could ever represent it accurately, so the models themselves are abstract representions. No reason to assume the rest of the measurements are off scale though.

If the models are in different scales, the measurements will be off. Not just by a little either.

lets show you how. Using some of your numbers.

in BFG the ship can move 10cm, thats about 4 inches, which translates into 4 squares on a movement mat for D&D, which equals about 6 meters in the D&D world. Given the 1 hour per game turn that you cited, that means the BFG ships move VERY slowly, about 147 meters per day. so you see, different scales have a big impact on measurements and can throw them way off.

Kaldor wrote:At the end of the day, whichever way you slice it SW ships are painfully slow. We have sports cars today that are faster. IoM ships are much faster, and obviously engage at much longer ranges.

and you have some evidence, other than the BFG scale errors you posted earlier, to support this?

greektlake wrote:The impotent nerd rage is palpable.

What? really?
Can you cite an example of this?

how about the above post? you seem pretty flustered to me.

You know what, the doctor comes in and wins, that is all, he saves the emperor from the golden throne and set the galaxy onto a golden age of mankind.

Sierk wrote:Blax they are accepting what you said and your bringing back machines that cant be remade so why cant we bring back what was disbanded, wounded or killed meaning a full strength emporor, more advanced machines being mass produced like space hulks and the such and the legions.
Im right dont you think?

Where did I say they couldn't? I never have.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Death Star: Drstroyed
Death Stat II: Destroyed
Sun Crusher: Destroyed
Galaxy Gun: Destroyed

There. Using current fluff on both. These super weapons are gone and can no longer be brought up. Thank you for playing.

Now we have already determined the IoM would control space, due to superior sub light speed and long range fire power.

The IoM would also dominate ground combat. Due to the superior combat ablities of the Imperial Guard.

Hands down Star Wars loses.

The GE itself doesn't exist in current fluff. I guess we just shouldn't have this discussion at all.

Or maybe, you should use some common sense.

Earlier in the thread it was metioned that the blueprints or something were lost for that stuff and what the **** is a GE

GE = Galactic Empire.

And as I said before, IN THE FLUFF, the Galactic Empire doesn't even exist anymore; it surrendered and was dissolved. So if DakkaDakka's last ditch argument is "waaah waaaah those super weapons were already destroyed in star wars fluff so they shouldn't be allowed here!", then you've already lost.

I don't know why this is such a big deal. I'm man enough to admit that clones and stormtroopers would get destroyed by the Imperium. It's just... the complete other way around in space.

I hate to play the devil's advocate for the 40K as Star Wars is an interesting universe, but the problem with Star Wars is simply the expanded universe is technically fan fiction. The movies are the canon of the Star Wars Universe. All of the rulebooks and fluff snippets from all of GW publications put detail into the 40K universe. We have ships with guns that fire skyscrapers at near light speed. You have the death star that gets killed by fighters. This is sadly the truth regardless of how much you don't want it to be.

It's not "technically fan fiction" anymore then the black library and the comics are "technically fan fiction".

But, again. If the only way you can try to scrape a win for the 40K verse is by trying to pretend that these weapons don't exist, by all means. Obvious reaching is obvious. I know who you are, btw. :p

I'm not trying to pretend these weapons do not exist. I am not using any Black Library material or otherwise. I am using the rulebooks as the only canon. Imperial Guard are Meatshields and Stormtroopers can't hit anything worth gak. Simple as that. I'm not pulling a defense for 40K I'm simply using basic logic. Has George Lucas actually written any of the expanded universe stuff or has other authors stepped in to fill the gap?

And by the way, how do you know who I am?

lol so its crying when we say that those weapons got blown up when they actually got blown up. Perfect sense mate.

BlaxicanX wrote:GE = Galactic Empire.

And as I said before, IN THE FLUFF, the Galactic Empire doesn't even exist anymore; it surrendered and was dissolved. So if DakkaDakka's last ditch argument is "waaah waaaah those super weapons were already destroyed in star wars fluff so they shouldn't be allowed here!", then you've already lost.

I don't know why this is such a big deal. I'm man enough to admit that clones and stormtroopers would get destroyed by the Imperium. It's just... the complete other way around in space.

Ive nevet said The GE, ive kept it vauge, saying Star Wars, or the Empire, which could mean, the GE, the Imperial Remnaut , the Fel Empire, or the second Galactic Empire. So how about getting some reading comprehension skills, before you insult someone. Okay.

The IoM would win in space, hands down, no contest. The standard ship, the Cruiser is bigger then a Star Destroyer. The Battleships are even bigger. But before you start with "But Mr. Caboose, sw has XY&Z weapons. Yadayadayada." Thats cool and all, but the IoM fights at longer ranges then SW. So all their super turbolasers, and other weapons, no longer factor. What does factor is how fast they can move, and how much punishment they can take. And since IoM ships are faster in Sub light, they will stay out of range. Plus sw ships have no defense against
Psykers. None. And its argued that IoM Gellar Fields would protect against the force.

You know, mass effect fleets could most likely beat SW fleets. That longer range desides it. You want a real would example? Battleships. Once they were Kings of the sea. Now their scrap. Due to aircraft carriers could damage them, while staying well out side their range

/thread

And just in case you want proof that range can be a deciding factor in battle

British privateers vs. Spanish Armada. Privateers had the range (not to mention higher rate of fire) and thus ushered in the era of the British Empire and superiority at sea.

Again it depends, if you leave out all the supplemental books and things from both sides all you are left with that is canon is a movie vs a game. In that instance 40K losses because no one can shoot further than 50 yards, even things like basilisks big artillery can only shoot a few hundred yards. Star wars has them on range. Even the fastest flier in 40K can't clear a table in one turn making them terribly slow.

For star wars, no one but heros can hit the broadside of a barn, so most troops would all be BS 1 or 2. But they would be able to shoot across the table!

It's silly all the way around.

In space range is pretty much the deciding factor.