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Voss wrote:

---
Also, apparently this is not the last DLC.
Confirmed by the CA PR person (CA_Grace) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/jx58ti/sick_of_the_skaven/gcu92bt/?context=3

That's probably the most exciting thing to me. Holding out hope for some Chaos (both factions) love or Ogre Kingdoms.

It wouldn't surprise me if CA had perhaps wound up with a delay on their next big game project as a result of Corona; so could be shifting more content in Warhammer 2 to make up for it

I'm hoping we get a Dwarf LL as part of the final DLC. Bring the Dawi into the Vortex campaign (Spine of Sotek, with Grimm Burlocksson (or however you spell that) as their leader).

 nels1031 wrote:
That's probably the most exciting thing to me. Holding out hope for some Chaos (both factions) love or Ogre Kingdoms.

Ogres? Nah, man. They're going to be a TWW3 core race. Almost guaranteed.

Ya, its a pipe dream.

It will probably be another Lizardmen or High Elf character...

Aren't Dark Elves missing a LL compared to the others?

Noice.
Looking forward to this.

I hope roided up rat ogre things mean rat ogres will get better! I like my monstrous infantry and monster units.

Currently they just suck and running a ratling gun/warplock + arty spam and corner camping is too good to pass up.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Aren't Dark Elves missing a LL compared to the others?

Only one that would really fit would be Rakarth as a Beastmaster lord, probably make him the legendary lord of Karond Kar (and with a unique building in Clar Karond)?

Legendary Hero wise I'd give Malekith Kouran (captain of the Black Guard so halberd master), Hellebron gets Tullaris (captain of the Har Ganeth Executioners so great weapon master), Morathi gets Shadowblade (assassin obviously), and Malus could either get his mother Eldire as a sorceress or Hauclir (the only one of his retainers to survive the events of the novels, as far as I can remember) as some form of assassin/master hybrid thing to represent his roguishness?

 Overread wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if CA had perhaps wound up with a delay on their next big game project as a result of Corona; so could be shifting more content in Warhammer 2 to make up for it

Currently it sounds like things were delayed but not changed. Someone mentioned in passing that they would have at least formally announced WH3 pre... well, pre 2020 playing out.

Most likely prospect for the final DLC is Dark Elves (Bringing them to 6 LLs like the other base WH2 factions) vs ? <hopefully Beastmen>

There are already beast herds that are part of the early game in Naggaroth, so it'd be real easy to add a LL there, fill the holes in the roster and do a pass at updating their mechanics.

Definitely not ogres.. they said long ago that there would be no more 'new faction' DLC for WH2

-----
Early playthrough already with Orion (but only old stuff, no new units, just the overhaul changes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtM6mICilVI


Oh: major change- campaign start has a Chaos Invasion toggle. You can ramp the difficult up or... turn it off.

A few other things pop up in that video:

The dilemmas and special forest encounters are rather interesting, if sometimes a little repetitive. They give you something to do even while playing defensively, and are key to building forest health.

The deep roots teleportation is pretty impressive.
There is a forest added to lustria and Naggaroth (spawning pools and the witch? Wood). Also a forest to the west of The dwarven capital and the griffin wood, in the eastern empire, above the VC provinces, I believe.
Also the gaean vale on ulthuan.

In addition to the chaos invasion toggle, there's another quality of life improvement: the ability to abandon settlements.

This is global, not just WE.

Another global adjustment: missiles are no longer partially blocked when shooting from forests (for a short distance), but still provide some blocking cover when shooting into units in forests.

I've seen some complaints about the Anvil of Daith elsewhere and I wanted to point about some things in case anyone has similar views.

1) Some people have brought up customizable weapons/armor/etc. It's not happening unless they modify the game engine. Weapons/Armor/Enchanted Items/Banners/Etc are all treated as Ancillaries that are restricted to specific slots. The buffs on them are static. Each variation or permutation requires a new item to be stored in the database. This includes additional localization text for the item name and details.

The number of items you'd have to have stored to cover all permutations would be absurd. The only way this is changing is if they set up a slot system for ancillaries.

2) A lot of the big fancy new mechanics are just older tweaked mechanics with a new UI.

TK/Dwarf crafting are just extensions of the Ritual system. I'm 99% sure that Grom's Cauldron is as well.
Ikit's Lab is just a prettied up technology system. Throt's Lab looks similar. I don't know which came first, Undercities or Pirate Coves, but it's the same system. I think Chivalry is built off of Favor of the Gods.

In short, CA isn't really building new systems for DLC, they're repurposing old ones. I wouldn't expect anything extensive in terms of new mechanics until Warhammer 3.

 trexmeyer wrote:
I've seen some complaints about the Anvil of Daith elsewhere and I wanted to point about some things in case anyone has similar views.

1) Some people have brought up customizable weapons/armor/etc. It's not happening unless they modify the game engine. Weapons/Armor/Enchanted Items/Banners/Etc are all treated as Ancillaries that are restricted to specific slots. The buffs on them are static. Each variation or permutation requires a new item to be stored in the database. This includes additional localization text for the item name and details.

The number of items you'd have to have stored to cover all permutations would be absurd. The only way this is changing is if they set up a slot system for ancillaries.

2) A lot of the big fancy new mechanics are just older tweaked mechanics with a new UI.

TK/Dwarf crafting are just extensions of the Ritual system. I'm 99% sure that Grom's Cauldron is as well.
Ikit's Lab is just a prettied up technology system. Throt's Lab looks similar. I don't know which came first, Undercities or Pirate Coves, but it's the same system. I think Chivalry is built off of Favor of the Gods.

In short, CA isn't really building new systems for DLC, they're repurposing old ones. I wouldn't expect anything extensive in terms of new mechanics until Warhammer 3.

Totaly agree.

Alas, I have pre-rodered the DLC anyway

Lookign forward to it.
The biggest question is detarmining if I play as rats or green clad pointy ears first

Leaning towards rats. Make rat ogers great!

I think they're testing mechanics.

I'm all but certain that Grom's cauldron is a "beta test" for eventual OK gut magic/butcher cauldron stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think they're testing mechanics.

I'm all but certain that Grom's cauldron is a "beta test" for eventual OK gut magic/butcher cauldron stuff.

That's not what I'm getting at at all.

I'm not modding it anymore so I got rid of my archive GUI, but I'm almost positive (without checking) that Grom's Cauldron reuses/extends from the preexisting Ritual code. It's almost identical to the TK/Dwarf crafting system.

Basically Grom's Cauldron:
-River Hag on world map reuses the Gotrik/Felix system (I think this was the first one)
-River Hag triggers a Dilemma
-Ingredients replace Resources (same functionality in that they are required)
-Scrap replaces Oathgold/Jars for the spendable item
-TK/Dwarf Crafting actually has an option for a cooldown (only was used for epic items), for Grom it's a 1 turn lock out
-Instead of Ancillaries you get an assortment of buffs

The big "difference" is primarily UI.

I think people are expecting too much from WHTW3.

I fully expect it to be essentialy a slightly better TW WH2. Different map, different starting position etc. (just like WHTW2 is just slightly better first game wth vortex mechanic and a different map)

I'd have absolutely no issue with that whatsoever

I do hope they fix flanking and rear charges to be much more relevant. Wheeling around, keeping formation and sacrificing units to achieve better positioning rather then just have a big mosh pit.

Then again that ship has sort of sailed with things like dread saurian running around

 Argive wrote:
I think people are expecting too much from WHTW3.

What were people expecting? I only ever expected the same as TWW2, but a couple of new armies and a new campaign (like we got the vortex in TWW2). I wasn't even expecting any major map changes, as there's a blank spot on the current ME map for Ogre Kingdoms to live.

Switching back to the Skaven/WE DLC. Listening to some videos from people who have early access, apparently the WE's ME campaign is nerfed as there's an economy cap later in the game and that cap isn't high enough to defend yourself late game, once it hits life gets hard. From the sounds of things, you're forced into a diplomatic style campaign because you won't be able to survive late game.

But still, I'm gonna preorder it. WE are one of my favourite factions on the table top but the amber system drove me too insane to get too far in their campaign. At least the early part of the game looks a lot more entertaining.

I don't understand why they bother with certain nerfs and then let players get SP achievements with mods. You can literally run a Legendary campaign with unlimited income and immortal units and still get the achievement for victory if you want.

I never pay attention to the achievements, so that doesn't really bother me.

It's more that it seems playing WE beyond turn 100 (at least according to folk who have early access) you eventually just hit an economy wall, even though other AI factions will keep snowballing.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I never pay attention to the achievements, so that doesn't really bother me.

It's more that it seems playing WE beyond turn 100 (at least according to folk who have early access) you eventually just hit an economy wall, even though other AI factions will keep snowballing.

That doesn't seem possible. Razing settlements for big cash is an option for wood elves (I've seen 10K for a small settlement in the early game), and that's entirely what drives the chaos warrior economy.
WE also get access to more full settlements now, so there is also room for normal economic growth.

You'll likely still lose small settlements regularly, but you also don't have to spend a lot to replace and upgrade those; and personally most of my money in TW campaigns goes into town upgrades, not armies.

I've heard that the WE raze income got nerfed and heroes/lord upkeep increased dramatically.

I can accept that if they've now got more options with main settlements. To me one issue with them was that they had too much of their economic reliance settled in the one starting woodland area. So you HAD to capture that to progress because it was the only real area of advance you had.

If they've increased their ability to spread out and added more woodlands and such then I can see them having some higher upkeep costs to balance their greater steady economic growth.

 trexmeyer wrote:
I've heard that the WE raze income got nerfed and heroes/lord upkeep increased dramatically.

I've heard heroes are roughly 2.5 times their previous cost now. It seems CA doesn't want people spamming heroes, but I think in practice it'll mean a lot of heroes simply won't get taken any more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
I can accept that if they've now got more options with main settlements. To me one issue with them was that they had too much of their economic reliance settled in the one starting woodland area. So you HAD to capture that to progress because it was the only real area of advance you had.

If they've increased their ability to spread out and added more woodlands and such then I can see them having some higher upkeep costs to balance their greater steady economic growth.

Yeah it was vague to me what he meant, it was LegendofTotalWar over on YT who mentioned it in a live stream. Unfortunately I can't quote it exactly as it was a 4 hour stream and I'm not going to go through trying to find it again. His suggestion was even if you ignore the bankruptcy cheese that WE used to have and have now lost, WE are still a lot weaker late game than they used to be. They have gained a more interesting campaign, but overall they've lost more than they've gained in terms of performance in campaign, which isn't great as they were one of the weaker factions to begin with.

The big one he mentioned was the economy running out of legs and not having the resources to defend the various forest regions in the late game (I guess because you don't have enough to sustain several high tier armies that are required to compete late game), the other one he mentioned was the tech tree diplomacy benefits have been dialled back combined with some of the events that see you fighting races you'd rather befriend making life harder.

But we'll see how it goes. Based on his comments I'm not going to embark on setting the difficulty excessively high and hopefully I'll be able to work through the late game issues he was talking about.

It might be that they are weaker now, but CA might have built a more robust and easy to understand system for them so that when they make a few minor adjustments in a patch later; they can be boosted up or down as need be with good effect.

 nels1031 wrote:

Voss wrote:

---
Also, apparently this is not the last DLC.
Confirmed by the CA PR person (CA_Grace) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/jx58ti/sick_of_the_skaven/gcu92bt/?context=3

That's probably the most exciting thing to me. Holding out hope for some Chaos (both factions) love or Ogre Kingdoms.

I'll be honest. I could have sworn they said that Tomb Kings was going to be the last DLC for TW2 so all these extras have been little surprises for me.

Next DLC needs some Empire love. Badly.

Dwarves and Beastmen are lagging behind the most. WoC are not great, but WH3 will fix them, not sure how much it will touch Beastmen.

I could see them doing Beastmen vs The Empire however. It would make more sense as The Empire is fairly popular and I don't think Dwarves are up there. Dwarves are really bad though...I think as faction they're less interesting from a gameplay perspective than everyone else (sans Beastmen). Only thing they have going for them are Gyrobombers.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I've heard heroes are roughly 2.5 times their previous cost now. It seems CA doesn't want people spamming heroes, but I think in practice it'll mean a lot of heroes simply won't get taken any more.

Unfortunately CA tend to balance the game for mutliplayer, not realising that what's good in MP isn't always good in campaign, so when they fix something in the "meta" for MP they might be killing something people do in single-player for no reason.

That's the upkeep cost, not the recruit cost. MP should be unchanged. It's solely a SP nerf as far as I know.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:

Voss wrote:

---
Also, apparently this is not the last DLC.
Confirmed by the CA PR person (CA_Grace) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/jx58ti/sick_of_the_skaven/gcu92bt/?context=3

That's probably the most exciting thing to me. Holding out hope for some Chaos (both factions) love or Ogre Kingdoms.

I'll be honest. I could have sworn they said that Tomb Kings was going to be the last DLC for TW2 so all these extras have been little surprises for me.

Never. After Vampire Coast (the second race pack, TK was 1st) they said no more new races, just lord packs for existing factions, which they've stuck to.

Next DLC needs some Empire love. Badly.

Empire already got reworked. It won't get worked over again (until maybe a couple years into TW3).

Dwarves got tweaks, and they're unlikely to do a lord pack without a warhammer 2 race (Dark Elves, bringing them up to 6 lords like HE, Lizards and Skaven).

Now maybe they'll do a FLC lord for dark elves and focus on two old world races, but I doubt it.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Dwarves and Beastmen are lagging behind the most. WoC are not great, but WH3 will fix them, not sure how much it will touch Beastmen.

I could see them doing Beastmen vs The Empire however. It would make more sense as The Empire is fairly popular and I don't think Dwarves are up there. Dwarves are really bad though...I think as faction they're less interesting from a gameplay perspective than everyone else (sans Beastmen). Only thing they have going for them are Gyrobombers.

I think thats maily the fault with the game design as a whole heavily favouring missle spam..
They need to make melee infantry hit harder and more relevant when hitting flanks, and also stop from the entire unit firing its missles at once.

If they only had half the starting amount of models able to shoot that would nerf some of the output.
At the moemnt, focus firing and ranged armies are just way too good at applying damage.

Voss wrote:

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:

Voss wrote:

---
Also, apparently this is not the last DLC.
Confirmed by the CA PR person (CA_Grace) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/jx58ti/sick_of_the_skaven/gcu92bt/?context=3

That's probably the most exciting thing to me. Holding out hope for some Chaos (both factions) love or Ogre Kingdoms.

I'll be honest. I could have sworn they said that Tomb Kings was going to be the last DLC for TW2 so all these extras have been little surprises for me.

Never. After Vampire Coast (the second race pack, TK was 1st) they said no more new races, just lord packs for existing factions, which they've stuck to.

Next DLC needs some Empire love. Badly.

Empire already got reworked. It won't get worked over again (until maybe a couple years into TW3).

Dwarves got tweaks, and they're unlikely to do a lord pack without a warhammer 2 race (Dark Elves, bringing them up to 6 lords like HE, Lizards and Skaven).

Now maybe they'll do a FLC lord for dark elves and focus on two old world races, but I doubt it.

Doubtful. Dwarves have already had one rework and need another rework badly. Empire will get another. Vampires are at a point they almost need another.

I recently played a dward campaign for the first time. Seemed okay to me.

What do you think the issue with dwarves is ?