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 TalonZahn wrote:

 totalfailure wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 totalfailure wrote:
For me, it’s a hard ‘no’ on the P3 paints. They had a place at one time. But in 2024 there are way too many other good to excellent paint lines already on the market. And I’m not getting into yet another paint line you’ll likely never see in stores, and have to mail order. No thanks.

Ninjon covered these two points in the video above (starting at the 15:40 mark) and why he doesn't see them as being a problem.

I stopped watching Ninjon and Miniac long ago. You can infer from that how much I value their opinions…If the paint is successful, great for Steamforged. I won’t be backing it, or searching it out if there’s ever a retail release.

Those two will shill anything sent to them for free.

I'd be more interested if someone of solid reputation tested them.

They have alos leaned into Minitainment rather than actual painting.
It saddens me Vince Venturella, one of if not the best minitubers is friends and doesnt call them out on that.

totalfailure wrote:
I stopped watching Ninjon and Miniac long ago. You can infer from that how much I value their opinions…If the paint is successful, great for Steamforged. I won’t be backing it, or searching it out if there’s ever a retail release.

I remember he did a Temu or Wish episode reviewing a bunch of Chinese knockoffs, and even I felt that it was a bit much.

hotsauceman1 wrote:They have alos leaned into Minitainment rather than actual painting.
It saddens me Vince Venturella, one of if not the best minitubers is friends and doesnt call them out on that.

Ninjon (and a few others) are 100% background noise for me, so I need flash more than substance.

Vince requires actual watching.

As for call outs... it's a small world, man. There's rarely anything to be gained, and usually more to be lost, by creating interchannel drama. If I were to guess, Vince has a full time job (and probably a good paying one with plenty of flexibility), while Ninjon makes at least some or all of his living off his channel. things are different when it's about making a living.

I think at this point the cost of creating a paint range has gone down enough, and enough people are buying into paint ranges blind, that this makes sense even if you only sell to whales. I don't need another complete set, but they have some nice browns I wouldn't mind picking up at some point.

Goobertown hobbies made s timely video on this issue using the P3 paints as a frame this mornng:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnI6YQvqS3w&ab_channel=GoobertownHobbies

I liked the old P3 paints I had - and the ones are supposedly better (though who can say for sure yet) but they aren't really offering any value in the kickstarter to try to entice me into trying them.

I wish I could but I have been Kickstarted out. Nothing here is exclusive as I got confirmation that the Irregulars paint will eventually be on the SFG webstore so I'm just going to wait and buy singles later.

The KS seems to be doing pretty well for a miniatures paint kickstarter, with 3k people backing so far and half a million GBP (). So mission accomplished I guess.

I'll get the Irregulars because I need more of the old ones in that one and want to have a look at the changes that have been made myself, but the LGS is also bringing these paints into the store, and had most of the P3 line already, so I have a pretty extensive collection of P3 already.

P3 paints are pretty good, and the option of getting them in dropper bottles is cool because my flip tops from them all broke before the paint was used up.

But I am not gonna back a KS for paint. If they show up in my local shop in dropper bottles I'll be happy to pick some up.

I liked the light colours they had, like the old favourite, allaround champ "hammerfall khaki", as they were better than GWs flimsy light colours.
But these days GW can deliver on quality whites and even gold.

 Polonius wrote:

totalfailure wrote:
I stopped watching Ninjon and Miniac long ago. You can infer from that how much I value their opinions…If the paint is successful, great for Steamforged. I won’t be backing it, or searching it out if there’s ever a retail release.

I remember he did a Temu or Wish episode reviewing a bunch of Chinese knockoffs, and even I felt that it was a bit much.

hotsauceman1 wrote:They have alos leaned into Minitainment rather than actual painting.
It saddens me Vince Venturella, one of if not the best minitubers is friends and doesnt call them out on that.

Ninjon (and a few others) are 100% background noise for me, so I need flash more than substance.

Vince requires actual watching.

As for call outs... it's a small world, man. There's rarely anything to be gained, and usually more to be lost, by creating interchannel drama. If I were to guess, Vince has a full time job (and probably a good paying one with plenty of flexibility), while Ninjon makes at least some or all of his living off his channel. things are different when it's about making a living.
.

Yeah i respect vince because he gives actual advice in his channel, Ninjon i try watching and he just seems to know what he is talking about....but not conveying it

Got my hands on some prototypes of the P3 paint Kickstarter. For those still not sure, here are my thoughts: Smooth, satin, creamy, and high covering power. I was particularly impressed with the new Khador Red. It's a bright, vibrant red (similar to Citadel Evil Sunz Scarlet) that covers black in two thin coats without looking too pastel. The colour match to the old versions is decent, some colours are spot on, a few slightly off. The metallics are fantastic. Super smooth, with very fine metallic particles, and coverage is almost up to Vallejo Metal Color standards. Apparently, they've used a new technique with fully coloured aluminium flakes instead of mixing silver aluminium pigments with dye (Goobertown Hobbies really needs to check this out under his microscope). If you've always liked the P3 palette and love a satin finish, this Kickstarter might be for you.

Please note: I've only tested a handful of colours, so my impressions may not be representative. If you don’t know me yet, I review all the latest miniature paints on my YT channel: https://youtube.com/@stahly_taleofpainters I received the samples for free but, as always, I'm not sponsored. Full review planned when the range hits retail!

> Got my hands on some prototypes of the P3 paint Kickstarter.

fwiw, Prototypes aren't production. What you can make in small batches may not be possible in large, though hobby-level quantities certainly aren't mass market levels.

Anyway, thanks for your critique of Army Painter washes and Speedpaint a long time back! Hope you get a set of P3 to review when it hits retail!

New roadmap and update https://steamforged.com/en-gb/blogs/brands/a-roadmap-manifesto-warmachine?fbclid=IwY2xjawFimYRleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHTGQ2owKhsDSGbPie3ymaRSpEq22Oit4Rd9lSqyvIxmx_OOoIriV7IeYLA_aem_NpxwsXpoe9HGE1Tj30bFrA

AMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/1fq2pkn/ama_mat_hart_chief_creative_steamforged/

2 personal take aways from this, FB chat and the AMA is

1) quite a big slowdown in releases vs what PP was trying to do
2) Old factions like Circle, Skorne etc are well and truly gone, retired as "armies of legends", playable but will never be getting anything else. If you played those armies you are now limited to 2nd hand market or switching to one of the nu-factions with the new looks etc. We all expected that but I think that fact is starting to brutally hit home with many people now.

I still think its a mistake to retire old factions that way - they should have just updated them with new sculpts under the same faction name.

That said a lot of the new factions are just new takes on old factions - eg there's "new everblight" that's copying many of the same design elements.

It's a choice they've made I don't fully agree with, but its there and its done and honestly I prefer a firm stance rather than a half-way "we might one day" attitude from them.At least a clear line lets you know their intentions and direction.


A slowdown is a shame, but honestly take a look at Warcradle handling Dystopian Wars and slower releases might be less "exciting" but they can make for most sustainable growth. Slow steady sales and sustainable growth is very much what they need. I'd rather that over a big blast of new stuff burnign them out and then having supply issues; big gaps; slowdown and (typically) lost communication and other stuff. And if you read the linked production update from before they very much were having issues meeting demand. Slower sustainable and reliable stocking is going to grow things far better than forever being out of stock.

The "we might someday" is because they honestly might. The original intent was clearly that Orgoth replace Cryx, but popular demand for both has us with both.

I think the problem with new sculpts is just that they'd need to resculpt everything and its just not worth doing, particularly to mostly sell to people who already have the stuff. For the most part I'm pretty happy with the greatest hits approach they've taken to Khador, with all the elements still there but clearly rethought into something more consistent than what it expanded to over the years.

Of course, they haven't left this stuff alone and its quickly bloating all over again, but I overall really like the focused design.

The range is still very limited. They will add more armies in the future for sure. And my guess is that most of them are gonna be new versions of old factions.
Hopefully Circle (which is my favorite army) will be one of them.
Judging by the new Trollbloods though, I'm not sure I am excited for this. I like the new models but they don't feel like the old Troolbloods at all. The only thing from the old army that could fit with the new is the Sea King.
Yeah the old Trollbloods were a little all over the place, but I believe they should have just picked one aspect of the army and focus on that.

I think new Trolls are quite well designed, just not a replacement for old trolls in any way. I'm kind of okay with that, honestly, but I'd not be sad to see a return of the northern tribes someday.

In terms of Circle, I'd keep an eye on Khador's second army. It looks to be a warbeast faction centered on Old Witch. It's probably something like new Grymkin, but she's always tied in with Circle as well so they might lean that way. I could definitely see Druids and Warpbeasts with like Kossites or something.

It's kinda crazy that they've put their new two player starter set up for pre-order and we still haven't had much of a look at the contents.

I suspect more will be forthcoming, but you'd think they'd be spamming pictures everywhere.

 aku-chan wrote:
It's kinda crazy that they've put their new two player starter set up for pre-order and we still haven't had much of a look at the contents.

I suspect more will be forthcoming, but you'd think they'd be spamming pictures everywhere.

Here: https://steamforged.com/en-gb/blogs/brands/new-warmachine-pre-orders-oct?fbclid=IwY2xjawFkt5lleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHWa2HTVqzerXqkT08cILr5NDPZA4x-VELR9EZUai4LXGG0-i28cjcXG1ng_aem_nOnpEGlRH2-q0lORkfrhlQ

What’s in the box?

Major Allister Caine (Cygnar waracaster)
Deuce (Cygnar character warjack)
Captain Bastian Falk (Cygnar character solo)
The Black 13th (Cygnar character 3-model unit)
Kapitan Zahara Vilkul (Khador warcaster)
Razor (Khador character warjack)
Sergeant Goran Lazarenko, the Jackal (Khador character solo)
The Hounds (Khador character 3-model unit)
Scatter Terrain (4x Walls and 2x Shallow Water/Hazards)

NGL, 2 person starter set with terrain for about £80 is a pretty decent price point. Given the cost of a lot of the Mk4 stuff i was expecting a lot more. Be interesting to see how popular this is with new player and getting people into the game

Nice to see the Black 13th being full size! I have the originals, and they are really tiny! Caine needs to ditch the beard, though; blech.

They've got a better idea of what a roadmap is than GW!

https://steamforged.com/en-gb/blogs/brands/a-roadmap-manifesto-warmachine