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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Mantic sure are struggling with their KS, im backing it (those scarecrows are pretty awesome) but only following the updates and occasionally read the comments, but yeah i see what that dude is saying,

Mantic have just added a Abyssal warband to the pledges to try and get the value in the pledge and pretty much admitted they have made mistakes by not having the value or a 2 player set at the start,
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Original Timmy wrote:
Mantic sure are struggling with their KS, im backing it (those scarecrows are pretty awesome) but only following the updates and occasionally read the comments, but yeah i see what that dude is saying,

Mantic have just added a Abyssal warband to the pledges to try and get the value in the pledge and pretty much admitted they have made mistakes by not having the value or a 2 player set at the start,


Having said that yesterday(less than 24hrs ago) their campaign now seems to be moving in the right direction at a lot quicker pace, they are just under $108k and was around $85k when i posted yesterday, so getting the value in the pledge has paid off but a week late, just showing how important it is to have the "sweet spot" actually good value to begin with and only adding more to it unitil by the end you have a deal that "cant be missed"

*1st time quoting myself, feels a bit odd lol
   
Made in au
Destructive Daemon Prince





Melbourne .au

Looks like they had a little bump there, but it's flattened back out. A big lesson for Shieldwolf from the Mantic campaign is that of offering value from the get-go. I think the Fantasy stuff value was there, but not the sci-fi - especially by direct comparison - not by a long shot...

   
Made in gr
Dakka Veteran





Good morning @Azazelx,
I'm sorry but I fail to see how the value wasn't there on our project. We don't use "fake" SGs to bring the pledge value to acceptable standards, the offering is always a very good one from the get go in our opinion as it's policy of the company. Out of curiosity, which SCi-Fi pledge do you consider low value (SGs not included)?

As for the Mantic campaign, we avoid commenting on other colleagues' doings, let alone on an ongoing campaign :-)

   
Made in gb
Bloodthirsty Vampire Thrall






UK

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Good morning @Azazelx,
I'm sorry but I fail to see how the value wasn't there on our project. We don't use "fake" SGs to bring the pledge value to acceptable standards, the offering is always a very good one from the get go in our opinion as it's policy of the company. Out of curiosity, which SCi-Fi pledge do you consider low value (SGs not included)?

As for the Mantic campaign, we avoid commenting on other colleagues' doings, let alone on an ongoing campaign :-)


The major thing was as I think a number of said, the 10 models versus 20 models boxes that are upgraded almost as soon as the project as funded but still give an impression of less value - especially since they stay on the front page as 10 per box.

Having the page updated would have helped a bit but having the initial funding goal a couple of thousand higher would have been better as both fantasy and sci-fi pledges would have been on the same starting level.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gr
Dakka Veteran





I appreciate the input @Mr.Morden. Perhaps we should have changed the graphics as you suggest. We did switch the 35K and 40K SGs due to people complaining for the halved number (we had admitted that during the project, here on Dakkadakka infact), so a +33% from the funding goal wasn't exactly a couple of thousand higher, it was a 10K difference besides the funding already reserved from our part.
Let's take into account the $100 pledge level for the wolves we pitched off with, which we considered the "sweet spot" pledge level. We offered
-3 boxes for a total of 30 multi-part HIPS sci-fi miniatures,
-a KS exclusive resin character and
-2 different resin tanks (pretty big miniatures for resin casting).
-A pledge which was eligible for gold level rewards.

Even without the SGs, is that really such a bad deal? Because if so, then it comes to a point where we might not be able to compete on crowdfunding platforms.

   
Made in gb
Bloodthirsty Vampire Thrall






UK

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
I appreciate the input @Mr.Morden. Perhaps we should have changed the graphics as you suggest. We did switch the 35K and 40K SGs due to people complaining for the halved number (we had admitted that during the project, here on Dakkadakka infact), so a +33% from the funding goal wasn't exactly a couple of thousand higher, it was a 10K difference besides the funding already reserved from our part.
Let's take into account the $100 pledge level for the wolves we pitched off with, which we considered the "sweet spot" pledge level. We offered
-3 boxes for a total of 30 multi-part HIPS sci-fi miniatures,
-a KS exclusive resin character and
-2 different resin tanks (pretty big miniatures for resin casting).
-A pledge which was eligible for gold level rewards.

Even without the SGs, is that really such a bad deal? Because if so, then it comes to a point where we might not be able to compete on crowdfunding platforms.


I am not expert but just going by my reactions to the pledge levels and the layout. I was/am very happy with your previous KS and was happy to pledge based on the following:

I want to support companies like yours
I want some new Sisters of Battle models (*), the other ranges were ok and I might have gone down the root of female Space Wolves just because I dislike a lot of the current GW range for them.
I have spare disposable income

(*) However I should say that whilst I was blown away by your designs for the Sisters tanks, the infantry were, last just say I was not blown away. I have purchased some non sisters from other companies and they are beautiful so I was a little torn here - standing only rank and file is not great for sci-fi to be honest as I think others have noted.

If you had done a Sisters tanks only pledge - likely have been my first choice because they look great and were something no one else is doing! Now would you have sold similar to others - I don't know - I did flag it to some others and there was some interest on the SOB tactics thread. They are the people you want to grab hold of by the campaign, people like me are usually already looking to support you but new people need to look at the KS page and go

Wow they look awesome and I need them more than the other 10 kickstarters I have been browsing.

As you were trying to sell four armies the page was confusing - and I am afraid you invited direct comparisons between sci-fi and fantasy boxes by the layout which as you see from the complaints about 10 vs 20 happened.

Hope this helps and I am only a single voice so I may well be wrong!

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Baltimore, MD USA

Shieldwolf. From my point of view it wasn't that there was not value there, it was more the value was uneven. The fantasy pledge started with double the numbers... And was clear that although the price was the same, the value was not...

Now I was not really interested in the SciFi, but the fantasy paladins was the worst value compared to everything else... the $100 level got you troops and a leader compared to the other $100 sets that came with the same amount of troops and leader but also got tank or yetis or other extra stuff on top... The value was not the same... so, I held off upping my pledge to see if the value would increase...
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

Let's take into account the $100 pledge level for the wolves we pitched off with, which we considered the "sweet spot" pledge level. We offered
-3 boxes for a total of 30 multi-part HIPS sci-fi miniatures,
-a KS exclusive resin character and
-2 different resin tanks (pretty big miniatures for resin casting).
-A pledge which was eligible for gold level rewards.

Even without the SGs, is that really such a bad deal? Because if so, then it comes to a point where we might not be able to compete on crowdfunding platforms.


For instance if you had run separate KS for each of the themes and using the same pledge levels as they did when they had a joint KS, im pretty sure you wouldnt have had many people saying it wasnt good value from the get go, as when looking at each starting themes $100 pledge level separately they do have good value saving backers anywhere between $33-64(campaign prices) depending on the theme and pledge chosen, but when put next to each other that is when it starts to look very "uneven value" especially at start the sci-fi versions were for 10 minis and not 20 like fantasy, also future free SG that will be added can not count to a "good value" starting point, they are what makes a sweet deal unmissable and more importantly there is no guarantee they will be unlocked to add "value".

Let me breakdown your $100 pledge levels across the 4 themes using the individual items KS price...

Wolf Wardens fantasy rrp $180
4x infantry boxes at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
1x wolf pack at $15
1x yeti pack at $20

Total $144
Saving $44

'Maidens fantasy rrp $160
4x infantry boxes at $25 = $100
2x heroes at $9 = $18
1x wolf pack $15

Total $133
Saving $33

Northern Alliance box set fantasy rrp $170
4x infantry at $25 = $100
3x heroes at $9 = $27
1x yeti pack at $20

Total $147
Saving $47

Sisters of Wolves sci-fi rrp $165
3x infantry boxes at $25 = $75
1x hero at $9
2x tanks at $40 = $80

Total $164
Saving $64

Now lets have a look at what was proposed for Sisters of Taliareum/Faith pledges in update #8 Sept 25th and fill in the gaps based on the other themes pledge levels for the items you hadnt revealed but would of been added to the pledges, however I think both the revealed sci-fi Sisters of Taliareum are the full pledges.

* = educated guess

Sisters of Taliareum fantasy rrp $140
4x infantry at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
*1x wolf pack equivalent at $15
*1x yeti pack equivalent at $20

Total $144
Saving $44

Northern Alliance vs Order of Taliareum fantasy rrp $160
4x infantry at $25 = $100
3x heroes at $9 = $27
* 1x yeti pack equivalent at $20

Total $147
Saving $47

Sisters of Wolves vs Sisters of Faith sci-fi rrp $180
6x infantry at $25 = $150
2x heroes at $9 = $18

Total $168
Saving $68

Sisters of Faith sci-fi rrp $170
4x infantry at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
1x tank at $40
1x tank weapon upgrade at $15

Total $164
Saving $64

Now looking over those figures you can see that the value/savings are quite over the place with a greater saving of $20-$30 if you took one of the 3 sci-fi pledges, IM not sure what to make of the RRPs either, they seem random and the "value" problem occurs in each of the higher pledge levels too, i went through them when the campaign was live and im not going to do it again now, as this just took a good hr or so and i dont even know if you will read it as you havent commented on anything anyone here or on the KS said after the cancellation apart from to defend the "value" in 2 or 3 posts on here, sorry to sound harsh but if your not going to read it whats the point of any of us giving constructive criticism!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 21:57:31


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Good morning @Azazelx,
I'm sorry but I fail to see how the value wasn't there on our project. We don't use "fake" SGs to bring the pledge value to acceptable standards, the offering is always a very good one from the get go in our opinion as it's policy of the company. Out of curiosity, which SCi-Fi pledge do you consider low value (SGs not included)?

As for the Mantic campaign, we avoid commenting on other colleagues' doings, let alone on an ongoing campaign :-)


I feel like no matter what people say their perception of the project was, you always reply with what your perception of the project was. There is a fundamental disconnect there and you don't seem to be willing to listen. It doesn't matter if you're 100% right about the numbers. If your potential customers don't perceive it that way *at the time they look at it* then how right you are is irrelevant.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Baltimore, MD USA

 Original Timmy wrote:


* = educated guess

Sisters of Taliareum fantasy rrp $140
4x infantry at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
*1x wolf pack equivalent at $15
*1x yeti pack equivalent at $20
Total $144
Saving $44


Actually its worse because the Sisters fantasy did not come with the wolf pack equivalent or Yeti equivalent. But cost the same... Just 4 boxes of troops and a hero for the same as 4 boxes of wolf troops, a hero, wolves and Yetis
[Thumb - 1.png]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/14 00:50:30


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Baltimore, MD USA

Wolf sisters fantasy $100 pledge
[Thumb - 2.png]

   
Made in gr
Dakka Veteran





 Original Timmy wrote:

[...] I dont even know if you will read it as you havent commented on anything anyone here or on the KS said after the cancellation apart from to defend the "value" in 2 or 3 posts on here, sorry to sound harsh but if your not going to read it whats the point of any of us giving constructive criticism!

Actually we have read the previous comments, we haven't commented on them though as we are still figuring out things. :-)
That, and the redesign and re-process of the new concept & renders is eating up a fair bit of our time.

skarsol wrote:
I feel like no matter what people say their perception of the project was, you always reply with what your perception of the project was. There is a fundamental disconnect there and you don't seem to be willing to listen. It doesn't matter if you're 100% right about the numbers. If your potential customers don't perceive it that way *at the time they look at it* then how right you are is irrelevant.

With all due respect we reply with what our perception of the project was because we fail to see what exactly went wrong enough to make a project like this stall at a 40K mark (besides a couple of things noted on the previous page(s) which we are reading/studying carefully the rest seemed to have been done fine. Apparently not however, so what do we keep and what do we throw away? The numbers evidently were not 100% right, so we are still figuring this out...).
Going forward without this being a well taught lesson won't work for us :-/

Edit: @Smokestack,
the 2 fantasy pledge levels you quote above have indeed different value, I can't get into details why's that but when we were doing the math and calculating the SGs that's probably the best we could offer.
My question to you though is this: for someone who is interested in female paladins and he does get a very good deal as a backer and at the same time is a part of those people who actively helped bring this to life, something that exists nowhere else in the world... does it really matter if the nordic counterparts got slightly more on the same campaign? I mean, you are not interested in the northeners, so what harm does it do to you? (mind you this is honest crude curiosity here, I'm not being sarcastic)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/14 01:38:38


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





SoCal

Isn't that human nature?

How many KS created products die because customers refuse to buy the retail release due to inferior perceived value? How many rage quit a project they love over the most minuscule of sleights?

All of them, probably.

I guess what I'm saying is you need to have someone with no idea how the sausage is made tell you if all the plates look appetizing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/14 02:15:52


   
Made in au
Destructive Daemon Prince





Melbourne .au

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Good morning @Azazelx,
I'm sorry but I fail to see how the value wasn't there on our project. We don't use "fake" SGs to bring the pledge value to acceptable standards, the offering is always a very good one from the get go in our opinion as it's policy of the company. Out of curiosity, which SCi-Fi pledge do you consider low value (SGs not included)?

As for the Mantic campaign, we avoid commenting on other colleagues' doings, let alone on an ongoing campaign :-)



If you don't want to listen to feedback, don't listen.

If you don't want to learn, don't learn.

I'm sick of repeating myself on very specific points.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Baltimore, MD USA

Stupid quoting from mobile device...

Try again since my first post was eaten, no quote.

I don’t like thinking that I am being penalized or getting a worse deal than others who are spending the same money. The Paladins deal was clearly inferior. Even compared to the sci-fi Paladins who once the 20 troops were unlocked would have the same number of troops, the same hero and then a tank and an extra turret on top of that. No good reason was given as to why the value was so much lower. So I went down from $200 to $1 to see if the fantasy Paladins would equalize or if they would just stay the “lower valued option”

If they had been equal to the other pledges then that would not have been an issue. But the thought that my money gets me less (and this is not appreciated as much) as the other backers kind of put me off.
   
Made in au
Destructive Daemon Prince





Melbourne .au

 Original Timmy wrote:

Now looking over those figures you can see that the value/savings are quite over the place with a greater saving of $20-$30 if you took one of the 3 sci-fi pledges, IM not sure what to make of the RRPs either, they seem random and the "value" problem occurs in each of the higher pledge levels too, i went through them when the campaign was live and im not going to do it again now, as this just took a good hr or so and i dont even know if you will read it as you havent commented on anything anyone here or on the KS said after the cancellation apart from to defend the "value" in 2 or 3 posts on here, sorry to sound harsh but if your not going to read it whats the point of any of us giving constructive criticism!


That's basically where I am now. I wrote my other reply just now before reading your post, but I concur.

   
Made in us
Near Golden Daemon Caliber





Affton, MO. USA

I know you guys have a lot of pans in the fire right now, but I think the problem is too many offerings at once. Pick one, run the KS, then get that out the door and run the next. Stop cancelling, do ALL your math ahead of time and suck it up if you don’t get the zombicide levels of support. Get what you need to get to market, and let the people decide if they want to continue to support you and your dreams.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Baltimore, MD USA

Edit: @Smokestack,
the 2 fantasy pledge levels you quote above have indeed different value, I can't get into details why's that but when we were doing the math and calculating the SGs that's probably the best we could offer.
My question to you though is this: for someone who is interested in female paladins and he does get a very good deal as a backer and at the same time is a part of those people who actively helped bring this to life, something that exists nowhere else in the world... does it really matter if the nordic counterparts got slightly more on the same campaign? I mean, you are not interested in the northeners, so what harm does it do to you? (mind you this is honest crude curiosity here, I'm not being sarcastic)

So to go a little further. Yes it would make s difference. To use Mantic’s Vanguard Kickstarter as an example. They are currently offering 3 different new full warbands. Stretch goals are being offered that add to all 3 which basically keeps the value roughly the same. If they made the $45 Basilian warband a $200 value and kept the other 2 at about $80... either everyone would only get the “good value” one even if the other 2 were good value, because comparatively they are not s good value. Or the people who only wanted the 2 that are “poor value” because they are not getting a perceived good deal when compared to the “good value” one...
   
Made in nz
[DCM]
Villanous Scum






 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

With all due respect we reply with what our perception of the project was because we fail to see what exactly went wrong enough to make a project like this stall at a 40K mark (besides a couple of things noted on the previous page(s) which we are reading/studying carefully the rest seemed to have been done fine. Apparently not however, so what do we keep and what do we throw away? The numbers evidently were not 100% right, so we are still figuring this out...).
Going forward without this being a well taught lesson won't work for us :-/


That pretty much sums it up doesn't it? You wont listen even when things are pointed out in exacting detail to you, despite your pretence. Anyway after the rude and hostile response from you I am done with SW and will never give you another a penny.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/14 03:02:47


On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in au
Destructive Daemon Prince





Melbourne .au

Here's the thing. We're the backers that support and supported you. We're the backers who backed you anyway. We're the ones giving you a consumer's perspective on the flaws and drawbacks of your campaign and the ones who funded it despite those drawbacks.

How well did your campaign go? Funded but cancelled. Did not do the numbers you wanted.

So you can take our feedback and appreciate the time and effort that we put in to writing this stuff, or you can ignore it, be defensive, etc. But if you want your campaigns to do better in future, then you might want to listen. If not... well, it's not my business or livelihood at stake.

You can lead a horse to water...

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I was interested in the pledge level and value for the stuff I was interested in, and didn't care about anything outside that.

And goodness! Not enough for people to give their opinion, best to get immediately furious if everyone doesn't agree.
   
Made in gr
Dakka Veteran





@ArtisGreat
I think a lot of people however were interested in stuff that was never revealed (and naturally never unlocked).
Furious? I presume that isn't directed to us, if it is however, it's even more confusing. :-/
Baffled is a better term I think, and definitely not because of the commentary on this forum! :-)

@Azazelx
We are listening. The issue is we haven't integrated this manner of thinking under our skin (I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just... different). And apparently if we do integrate it we'll solve most of the problems that end up stalling our campaigns.
Hopefully when the draft is ready and shared with you, we can ask for more precise advice. Worked out well on the Shieldmaiden rebbot, fingers crossed it will be the same here. :-)

@ingtaer
I respect your decision but wholeheartedly don't follow where the 'hostile and rude' comes from.

@Smokestack
OK, I get what you're saying. And, while that's not how we think of it, I fully accept your reasoning behind it. And I think it's fair to say that most people would agree with your reasoning and not ours, nobody wants to feel they get "less value".
I'm sorry but we won't comment on Mantic's KS, it's just wrong for us to do so.

@Theophony
Yeah, as much as we want to fund a lot of stuff with a single go (as that's to the augmented benefit of everyone involved), we evidently lack the traction necessary to do so with one project.
I have a question, we are currently working on a relaunched project to fund just the fantasy and sci-fi paladin female armies. You suggest we leave one of the two out? Perhaps if we show the draft and the 'value' is perceived to be the same for both versions, it would work out for the better, no?

   
Made in nz
[DCM]
Villanous Scum






Via PM from Angelos as you should remember because you read them in response to my second to last post in this thread.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:


Edit: @Smokestack,
the 2 fantasy pledge levels you quote above have indeed different value, I can't get into details why's that but when we were doing the math and calculating the SGs that's probably the best we could offer.
My question to you though is this: for someone who is interested in female paladins and he does get a very good deal as a backer and at the same time is a part of those people who actively helped bring this to life, something that exists nowhere else in the world... does it really matter if the nordic counterparts got slightly more on the same campaign? I mean, you are not interested in the northeners, so what harm does it do to you? (mind you this is honest crude curiosity here, I'm not being sarcastic)


There are loads of psychological experiments that show that seeing somebody getting more treats/pay/rewards than you has been shown to generate resentment

so seeing one group of backers getting more than you for the same pledge is an active disincentive to backing the campaign

(its even been shown in monkeys too, give one monkey a grape for a task that the other gets a leaf for and the leaf monkey gets cross and usually refuses to perform the task and if the two are friends both my refuse to perform)

it also generates a perception that the campaign organisers aren't fair or reasonable (even if that's not true)

far better to either give each pledge group (near) identical rewards or if that's not possible run 2 separate campaigns

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/14 12:59:10


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
@Theophony
Yeah, as much as we want to fund a lot of stuff with a single go (as that's to the augmented benefit of everyone involved), we evidently lack the traction necessary to do so with one project.
I have a question, we are currently working on a relaunched project to fund just the fantasy and sci-fi paladin female armies. You suggest we leave one of the two out? Perhaps if we show the draft and the 'value' is perceived to be the same for both versions, it would work out for the better, no?


Is there any tie between the two lines? IE: Do they use the same sprues? If so, then sure, do them in a combined KS; one inherently benefits the other.

Either way, yes, show the draft, with sufficient time for people to look at it. Although if 'success' is based on stretch goals and not the actual funding value (which is apparent based on your cancellations of funded projects) then all the review of the initial project in the world won't really help.

That said, I'm not a backer for any of them as is. I've been backing your last few projects on the sole hope of getting the Arachnowraths/maidens. Why those are continually shackled to unrelated projects, I'll never guess. I bet if you made a project for just those models, set the funding point at the actual cost to get the molds made, and then used stretch goals to fund alternate heads/bodies/weapons, that it would do fine. Although I think you said elsewhere that you're just going to make them on your own, so I guess I'll keep waiting.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Smokestack wrote:
 Original Timmy wrote:


* = educated guess

Sisters of Taliareum fantasy rrp $140
4x infantry at $25 = $100
1x hero at $9
*1x wolf pack equivalent at $15
*1x yeti pack equivalent at $20
Total $144
Saving $44


Actually its worse because the Sisters fantasy did not come with the wolf pack equivalent or Yeti equivalent. But cost the same... Just 4 boxes of troops and a hero for the same as 4 boxes of wolf troops, a hero, wolves and Yetis


I was presuming that pledge would have been brought into line with the wolves equivalent pledge, but as Shieldwolf pointed out you are correct which is pretty shocking, i guess the saying is true "presumption is the mother of all F-ups"!

Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
 Original Timmy wrote:

[...] I dont even know if you will read it as you havent commented on anything anyone here or on the KS said after the cancellation apart from to defend the "value" in 2 or 3 posts on here, sorry to sound harsh but if your not going to read it whats the point of any of us giving constructive criticism!

Actually we have read the previous comments, we haven't commented on them though as we are still figuring out things. :-)
That, and the redesign and re-process of the new concept & renders is eating up a fair bit of our time.


Ok cool that is fair enough, it would have been nice to had a comment every now and again acknowledging it, like its been pointed out we have no monetary investment in Shieldwolf Miniatures the business and we can just walk away and lose nothing, where as you guys cannot walk away as you have money/time/passion etc all tied up and on the line, if things dont work out your in a dire situation

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:


Edit: @Smokestack,
the 2 fantasy pledge levels you quote above have indeed different value, I can't get into details why's that but when we were doing the math and calculating the SGs that's probably the best we could offer.
My question to you though is this: for someone who is interested in female paladins and he does get a very good deal as a backer and at the same time is a part of those people who actively helped bring this to life, something that exists nowhere else in the world... does it really matter if the nordic counterparts got slightly more on the same campaign? I mean, you are not interested in the northeners, so what harm does it do to you? (mind you this is honest crude curiosity here, I'm not being sarcastic)


There are loads of psychological experiments that show that seeing somebody getting more treats/pay/rewards than you has been shown to generate resentment

so seeing one group of backers getting more than you for the same pledge is an active disincentive to backing the campaign

(its even been shown in monkeys too, give one monkey a grape for a task that the other gets a leaf for and the leaf monkey gets cross and usually refuses to perform the task and if the two are friends both my refuse to perform)

it also generates a perception that the campaign organisers aren't fair or reasonable (even if that's not true)

far better to either give each pledge group (near) identical rewards or if that's not possible run 2 separate campaigns


Thats a goods point with the "studies" that have been done on the subject of "fairness".

If they cant keep them equal or near enough for pledge levels and SGs they need to do separate KS, otherwise one camp will feel resentment and worse case scenario is when that camp starts to leave it will cause an avalanche of cancellations, i even said it a few times when they first mentioned having the duel campaigns and im sorry to say on this attempt "i told them so"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
skarsol wrote:


Is there any tie between the two lines? IE: Do they use the same sprues? If so, then sure, do them in a combined KS; one inherently benefits the other..


Personally i think thats the 2nd biggest problem with the sci-fi range, using "rank and file" designed troops, something that is normally used for fantasy minis and not sci-fi, using duel sprues may save money in the short term but it certainly may not in the long term,

ie the rumours are getting stronger about the fabled GW "plastic sisters" making an appearance and with GW saying they are looking into adding more females into their range which certainly adds fuel to the fire, having "rank and file" "not-SOB" will fill the gap until GW finally release theirs or anyone else offering "multi-pose" "not-SOB", but thats when unfortunately i think the sales of Shieldwolfs "not-SOB" will dry up as GW will be offer "multi-pose"(not "multi-part") miniatures with plenty of options(based on all their other kits) which will be far superior over "rank and file" poses, also with doing a KS it will take 10-12+ months before they reach retail and in that time GW or someone else could beat them to market, by the time Shieldwolfs hit retail no one will wont "rank and file" sci-fi troops and the only sales Shieldwolf will get will be of the original KS backers and any resin heroes and possibly tanks/vehicles they sell at retail, leaving them with some expensive paperweights over here in the UK(the molds)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/14 22:21:51


 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





New Bedford, MA USA

Given GWs pricing trend of keeping the plastic as expensive as their finecrap counterparts, and their comfort with releasing 5 model infantry boxes for $40, I dare say that a 20 model box of suitable sisters proxies for $40 would still have it's place in the market.

If the guns are removable, and you could easily fit a meltagun/flamer in their hands, they would be ideal replacements for troops and elite choices

   
Made in be
Fresh-Faced New User




 adamsouza wrote:
Given GWs pricing trend of keeping the plastic as expensive as their finecrap counterparts, and their comfort with releasing 5 model infantry boxes for $40, I dare say that a 20 model box of suitable sisters proxies for $40 would still have it's place in the market.


If it was the KS would have been a huge succes.

Imo the models looked to static, bad poses that looked like it was intended for a ranked unit. If I remember correctly there were no designs for sisters that holded their rifles with two hands. I.e standard firing position. Also the shoulderpads looked ackward.

The reality is that it is currently difficult for most companies that aren't GW, Victrix, Perry, WG to release a new plastic set and certainly a plastic set with many options.

Imo even Mantic is struggling with bringing out new plastic sets and certainly with sets that include 2-3 unique sprue frames.

Miniature kickstarters that aren't boardgames or don't offer an insane amount of mini's currently don't really make a chance anymore to get even close to $100000.

You need to wait more than 12 months before you receive your kickstarter pledge and this in a time that there are so many fantastisc mini's / games to buy right now. If you want that people want to pledge on your kickstarter the mini's should look insanly good or the value should be immense. Look at the Mantic Vanguard kickstarter... it only started going when the amount of mini's increased spectactulary.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/18 17:55:38


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Baltimore, MD USA

Tonhel wrote:


Imo the models looked to static, bad poses that looked like it was intended for a ranked unit. If I remember correctly there were no designs for sisters that holded their rifles with two hands. I.e standard firing position. Also the shoulderpads looked ackward.
.


True. They did say that none of the poses were final. Just the initial renders. Though I think the Shoulders and Elbows were what they were sticking with. They also made no promises but were going to revisit the weird hand guard on the rifles. They made it a point to not really comment on the "1-handed firing poses" so I think they were not likely to change... (hopefuilly now they may).

Overall I think they could be posed with enough variety to make a great unit. As long as the Heads have enough variety and they include some more weapon choices than they did on the shield maidens.

For Fantasy I really wish there was a spear option... As the lack of it really hampered what I wanted to do with the maidens.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/18 23:21:16


 
   
 
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