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In a Boyz mob, "for every ten Orks in the mob, one Ork may exchange his slugga or shoota for..."

So... well... Nobz are Orks, right? Any reason he can't be the one to get the 'eavy weapon? That way you can buy your 'eavy weapon boy some 'eavy armour too.

RaW suck.

Should say: "for every ten Orks in the mob, one Boy may exchange his slugga or shoota for..."

Well, it is funny, because he has to be otherwise you can't get a third weapon at 30. You'd have 29 boyz and a Nob, but we know you can have a third.

Yup, it says any Ork, so the Nob can indeed, RaW, take a Big Shoota / Rokkit Launcha. He can even exchange his Choppa for a Klaw and his Slugga for the Special. How is this unclear?

This calls for an epic conversion.

It is not unclear. The RaW is perfectly clear. I am just pointing it out, is all, as I believe people may find it surprising. I believe the RaI is that Nobs should not get the unit's 'eavy weapon, but RaW says differently.

It is simply an RaI vs. RaW debate, so it depends on which of the two a person prioritises.

Fifty wrote:It is not unclear. The RaW is perfectly clear. I am just pointing it out, is all, as I believe people may find it surprising. I believe the RaI is that Nobs should not get the unit's 'eavy weapon, but RaW says differently.

It is simply an RaI vs. RaW debate, so it depends on which of the two a person prioritises.

Oh, you wrote the codex? Sorry Phil, I didn't know you were on Dakka.

It is not a conflict, because you did not write the codex.

Gwar, be chill man.

He is just saying that squad leaders usually aren't allowed to take the heavy weapons. The intention is that they don't take heavy weapons, instead opting for the special CC weapons. It's just the rule of cool. There is a conflict RaI vs RaW, but it is immaterial, as RaW wins out.

Gwar! wrote:

Fifty wrote:It is not unclear. The RaW is perfectly clear. I am just pointing it out, is all, as I believe people may find it surprising. I believe the RaI is that Nobs should not get the unit's 'eavy weapon, but RaW says differently.

It is simply an RaI vs. RaW debate, so it depends on which of the two a person prioritises.

Oh, you wrote the codex? Sorry Phil, I didn't know you were on Dakka.

It is not a conflict, because you did not write the codex.

Where did I say I wrote the Codex? Where did I even say what the RaI is? I said "I believe the RaI is" and that other people may find the RaW surprising.

How does it not make sense for the Nob to simply take the bigger gun from a boy in his squad and use it as his own personal weapon? Besides arguing RaI only works when you have a situation where the RaW is unclear and RaI is better than a house rule or nothing.

Norade wrote:Besides arguing RaI only works when you want an unfair advantage.

Fix'd, as this is the case in 99.999999...999999% of cases.

Yeah, so we are all in agreement this works. Goodnight.

Ja, that is certainly true as you will always twist RaI to suit your game plan.

Has EVERYONE lost their mind? We are all in agreement, stop fighting about agreeing about stuff.

I would not give the Nob a heavy weapon, because he's the only one in the unit that can have a twin shoota and power klaw. That would just be stupid, no matter what the proper rules interpretation is. Not that 40K isn't full of stupid rules, let's get that clear right now. Arguing about them is to nobody's credit.

Boyz Mob Nobz can't have TL Shootas.

And the point is, you CAN give them a heavy weapon, regardless of whether or not it is smart to.

Fifty wrote:It is not unclear. The RaW is perfectly clear. I am just pointing it out, is all, as I believe people may find it surprising. I believe the RaI is that Nobs should not get the unit's 'eavy weapon, but RaW says differently.

Just curious, but why do you believe it's not intended?

The Nob taking the bigger weapon is, as someone else mentioned, rather Orky.

It was also allowed under the previous codex... the only difference was that the Nob had to select the weapon from the Armoury instead of taking one of the squad upgrades. So this is nothing new... all that's different is that there is no Armoury to select from any more, and so the weapon comes from the squad options instead.

That is a very good point. So, not even RAI cares so much.

insaniak wrote:The Nob taking the bigger weapon is, as someone else mentioned, rather Orky.

Most certainly so. And perfectly allowed as he is big, green and orky enough to count as an Ork, the sort of model that can carry one of the squad weapons.

insaniak wrote:

Fifty wrote:It is not unclear. The RaW is perfectly clear. I am just pointing it out, is all, as I believe people may find it surprising. I believe the RaI is that Nobs should not get the unit's 'eavy weapon, but RaW says differently.

Just curious, but why do you believe it's not intended?

The Nob taking the bigger weapon is, as someone else mentioned, rather Orky.

It was also allowed under the previous codex... the only difference was that the Nob had to select the weapon from the Armoury instead of taking one of the squad upgrades. So this is nothing new... all that's different is that there is no Armoury to select from any more, and so the weapon comes from the squad options instead.

I originally did not believe it was intended due to the fact that in my limited experience of other codices, SM sergeants would not have their units' heavy weapon under the common interpretation of the rules. Of course, in Eldar, the Exarchs ARE the ones with special weapons, which I only just thought of, so that blows my own line of reasoning about why it may not be RaI out of the water...

I agree it is certainly rather Orky for the Nob to take the biggest weapon. The fact that is how it worked in the previous codex, which I have never even seen, let alone read, used and played from, makes me think it is probably intentional after all...

So, I think it IS well-phrased after all.

(You see folks, this is how a discussion forum can work. Some people make statements about what they think, implicitly inviting comment, discussion and query. Others reply politely with comments, queries and clarifications, thereby allowing the original poster to consider their viewpoint, and possibly any additional information which was previously unknown to them. The original poster may then revise their original viewpoint, or stick with their own original viewpoint. So civilised! And with no need for rudeness. Isn't this nice? )

Fifty wrote:(You see folks, this is how a discuswords words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words )

Please don't poke the anthill, so to speak. Doesn't add to the discussion, only makes you seem condescending.


Anywho, it states nowhere that a Boy Nob can replace his slugga with anything, only his choppa. As orky as, say, a Nob with a PK and a Big Shoota might be, there is nothing that states he can. Besides, do you honestly want him to have a big shoota? That Nob is the only thing that can touch AV 14, and he probably wouldn't be able to handle both a Big Shoota and a PK. Hell, not even a Boss can do that. But as it isn't in the rules it's a moot point, anyway.

MasticatorDeelux wrote:Please don't poke the anthill, so to speak. Doesn't add to the discussion, only makes you seem condescending.

Hell, in any case where Gwar! gets involved, I think I'll feel safe that I'm not the most condescending in the thread. However, I intended to add smileys to that bit to soften its edges, but I forgot, so I edited them in. While we are on the subject of condescending, quoting someone and replacing their text with "words words words" might seem a tad condescending too. Or was it a Hamlet reference?

Anywho, it states nowhere that a Boy Nob can replace his slugga with anything, only his choppa. As orky as, say, a Nob with a PK and a Big Shoota might be, there is nothing that states he can. Besides, do you honestly want him to have a big shoota? That Nob is the only thing that can touch AV 14, and he probably wouldn't be able to handle both a Big Shoota and a PK. Hell, not even a Boss can do that. But as it isn't in the rules it's a moot point, anyway.

It says "any Ork may replace his slugga or shoota for...". A Nob is definitely an Ork, and in this case, there is no questions that a Boy ceases to be an Ork when he becomes a Nob.

Just saying. Besides, if I was gonna condescend with words words words words words words, I'd quote Charles Dickens.


I can sort've see where you would be allowed to arm a Nob with heavy weapons. But that would strip him of the ability to wield a PK, which is really what you want. In friendly games I can see where it's no big deal, I just fail to see the point of it, especially where there's no real benefit of having a heavy weapons Nob. A Boy and a Nob have the same BS/WS, and the Nob is statted to be more killy in close combat anyway.

Where is the benefit of this, other than looking cool?

MasticatorDeelux wrote:I can sort've see where you would be allowed to arm a Nob with heavy weapons. But that would strip him of the ability to wield a PK, which is really what you want. In friendly games I can see where it's no big deal, I just fail to see the point of it, especially where there's no real benefit of having a heavy weapons Nob. A Boy and a Nob have the same BS/WS, and the Nob is statted to be more killy in close combat anyway.

Where is the benefit of this, other than looking cool?

A PK replaces the choppa, whereas 'eavy weapons replace the slugga, so you can have both.

A Nob has 2 wounds and can take 'eavy armour, so is more likely to stay alive longer to get to use the 'eavy weapon.

If you have a front rank of five orks in a 30-man squad, you can have the nob in the front and center, flanked by a heavy weapon on each side, so you can get into range quicker while still looking cool.

So, I guess that's actually another example of "looking cool".

All well.

Still doesn't say it in the RAW. Won't fly in anything resembling a serious game. For gaks and giggles, yeah. I still say the Nob wouldn't get it, as it's not detailed in the section specifically devoted to Nobs in a Boyz mob. Even in the Nobs (elites) section they can have up to a TL Shoota, or a kombi-weapon. If they could wield them, it would undoubtedly be in the section specifically for them.

MasticatorDeelux wrote:Still doesn't say it in the RAW. Won't fly in anything resembling a serious game. For gaks and giggles, yeah. I still say the Nob wouldn't get it, as it's not detailed in the section specifically devoted to Nobs in a Boyz mob. Even in the Nobs (elites) section they can have up to a TL Shoota, or a kombi-weapon. If they could wield them, it would undoubtedly be in the section specifically for them.

No offence, but it says "Any ork". A nob is an Ork, therefore, RaW, can take it. If it said "Any Boy" then he couldn't, but it doesn't, so he can.

Yeah, I know. I'd just as soon attribute it to a typing feth up in the 'dex.

Options:
For every ten Orks in the mob, one Ork may exchange his slugga or shoota for:
big shoota ........................... +X points per model
rokkit launcha ...................... +Y points per model

MasticatorDeelux wrote:Yeah, I know. I'd just as soon attribute it to a typing feth up in the 'dex.

If it was a typo, they would have errata'd it, as they have already issued a lot of errata for the ork codex anyway

MasticatorDeelux wrote: I still say the Nob wouldn't get it, as it's not detailed in the section specifically devoted to Nobs in a Boyz mob.

By that logic, he can't have Stikkbommz either.

Even in the Nobs (elites) section they can have up to a TL Shoota, or a kombi-weapon. If they could wield them, it would undoubtedly be in the section specifically for them.

The Nobz mob is a completely seperate entity. What wargear they are allowed is completely irrelevant to what a Nob in a Boyz mob can take.


It's allowed by RAW, it's not particularly game-breaking, and it's an established precedent from the previous codex. I'm honestly not seeing how anyone would have a serious problem with it.