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lets say that a weakened monstrous creature such as a wounded carnifex (or almost any weakened non-assault unit) is about to assault your talk or squads. i came up with a cool combo that with luck would be able to finish it off. im thinking penal troops with the primaris psyker or priest with evisorator . there is a 2/3 chance that the penal guys will either get fleet with counter attack and furious charge or an xtra CC weapon and rending. solid in my book. even the other option for assault 2 lasguns isn't horrible. i like the primaris because he has soul storm which has a good chance to knock off at least 1 wound before you even get into CC and he also has a force weapon for when you are in CC. the force weapon can insta-kill the carinfex (unless i am mistaken.) add in creed's For The Honor Of Cadia order to make the unit fearless and get furious charge if you take creed and your not looking too shabby. the other option is the priest which has the evisorator so it will wound on a 4+ or 5+ and ignores armor and he has a 4+ invulnerable save. the only drawback i can find with the primaris is that you could only wound a T7 carnifex in a 6+ and thats only on the turn you charge in with creed's order. the priest will let you re-roll failed to-hit rolls. just an interesting idea i formed on a long car ride. would appreciate feedback.

I think I'd just rather field a unit of rough riders, strength 5, Initiative 5 power weapons on that charge, have an 18 to 24 inch range and 7 cost about the same as that psyker alone. You can pop Creed's order on them for strength 6.

If only priests could take Horses as an upgrade.

Apparently 'Nids got FAQ'd so that they can't be insta-deathed by a Force Weapon, but the codex says "immune to instant death by double strength to toughness weapons."

Either way, the Primaris Psycher has S3, so he can't wound Carnifexi that are T7.

I'm that case the priest sounds like the better choice. I'm a huge fan of the primaris in general but im thinking the priest is actually better in this role (and slightly cheaper.)

RR are cheaper than priests, and give you more bodies...BUT the models are blech..which is why I convert my own....

Priests are better than the psyker definitely in that role, and they do not cost a FOC slot..besides eviscerators look downright nastier.....

I had straken take down a carnifex with no problem. 5 attacks on the charge with str 7 (Furious charge) power weapon. He is probably the cheapest and most effective CC unit in the guard. Plus makes the rest of his nearest buddies much better too.

i want to take stracken so bad but i cant justify taking him over creed in most games because of points

who needs to kill MCs in CC? Get a CCS with four plasma guns, use bring it down, and you have a dead MC.

of course you're supposed to shoot it to death but what if all that shooting only knocks off MOST of the wounds. i had a fex get too close for comfort last game so i was just trying to figure out a cheap combo to take care of the possibility. (see the first sentence of my OP.)

Honestly, I sort of think you're looking at it the wrong way. You're asking, "If I get stuck in close combat, how do I win it?" You should be asking, "How can I prevent getting stuck in close combat?"

All the points you spend assembling a close combat counter-charge unit are points that you SHOULD have spent on more dakka to kill more stuff to keep it from getting into close combat with you. If a carnifex is getting too close for comfort...create a barricade of living flesh that he *has* to assault; that will give you an extra turn of shooting when they die. Small unit of conscripts, or a chimera squad that got out to sacrifice themselves...there's a lot of things you can do.

But spending points that should have been spent on more ranged firepower on a close combat option that has a rare chance of being utilized is depriving you of part of your arsenal....and having X less guns just means that there's a slightly HIGHER chance that a carnifex is GOING to get into close combat with you because you wasted points on close combat stuff instead of the extra gun required to shoot it down.

I agree with Dash.

The problem with alot of the counter charge options I see is that they are large point sinks that use up multiple FOC slots. Its why I usually point to the rough riders for counter charge. They are cheap and effective against most threats, have speed to respond to where they are needed and aren't using up an HQ slot.

fair point but im trying to use the models i have

Try sentinels as a counter charge unit. Nobody can deny that with the weaponry they carry you are throwing points into a hole with one use. Then you charge the MC after hosing it with flame or plasma and boy that thing is going to be in trouble with armored feet kicking its skull around like a soccer ball.

MCs roll 2d6 armor pen IIRC. not sure i want to charge a MC with s5 walkers that will probably get hosed by it. They do work fine against most infantry threats.

I know the models are expensive but another good counter charge unit is Ogryns in a Chimera, 5 of them usually will kill a full wound daemon prince in 2 rounds of combat, and with 18 wounds and hi toughness, they can tie up a didicated assualt unit for long enough to get the rest of your army into a good shooting posistion.

Flee to fight another turn, its called a monstrous creature for a reason. Then stop and shoot it again.

death to the monstrous heretic! it is a heretic because its a giant bug in the Emperor's domain. and we all know what happens to heretics...

IIRC, the only time that the 'nids get the immunity ID is when they are within 12" of a synapse creature. when I was playing 'nids though, I made sure to have a synapse creates around almost all of my figures although it does get hard some times.....

The Angry Commissar wrote:lets say that a weakened monstrous creature such as a wounded carnifex (or almost any weakened non-assault unit) is about to assault your talk or squads. i came up with a cool combo that with luck would be able to finish it off. im thinking penal troops with the primaris psyker or priest with evisorator . there is a 2/3 chance that the penal guys will either get fleet with counter attack and furious charge or an xtra CC weapon and rending. solid in my book. even the other option for assault 2 lasguns isn't horrible. i like the primaris because he has soul storm which has a good chance to knock off at least 1 wound before you even get into CC and he also has a force weapon for when you are in CC. the force weapon can insta-kill the carinfex (unless i am mistaken.) add in creed's For The Honor Of Cadia order to make the unit fearless and get furious charge if you take creed and your not looking too shabby. the other option is the priest which has the evisorator so it will wound on a 4+ or 5+ and ignores armor and he has a 4+ invulnerable save. the only drawback i can find with the primaris is that you could only wound a T7 carnifex in a 6+ and thats only on the turn you charge in with creed's order. the priest will let you re-roll failed to-hit rolls. just an interesting idea i formed on a long car ride. would appreciate feedback.

The Primaris Psyker does not have Soulstorm (He has Lightning Arc), the Psyker Battle Squad does. However, Lightning Arc is devastating against hordes. You average 7 BS4 S6 AP5 shots with him.

Personally, for counter charge units, I have a few triple flamer special weapon squads running around, especially since now they can take objectives (I have a knack for getting my none mechanized guard on objectives all over the board for some reason). Flamers destroy hordes, plain and simple. Generally, there are so few models left in the squad that I can win in assault afterwards. S4 can put some wounds on MEQs, especially since you don't roll to hit, but I keep at least one trip or quad plasma PCS about if I have the points to deal with charging MEQs. Then I just throw a standard infantry squad at them survivors.

my bad i thot it was called soul storm you are correct. i rolled box cars for the primaris' psychic attack and it killed 2 termies and knocked a wound off an uber-character. he also just looks like a bad ass.

He definitely is. He has a lot of potential to put out a serious amount of hurt.

lol yea assault 2D6 R24' S6 AP5 is amazing