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Hey everyone.
I have been running what you might call a 'standard' Chaos line-up for this day & age.
Lot's of Plague Marines, in Tanks with a shed load of Heavy support, a Sorcerer, Daemon Prince & the Lash.
In an attempt to write a slightly different list with some CC punch I re-wrote my list a bit.
It hasn't changed much & does include multiple Chaotic Chapters/Icons. So if you are offended by this type of list please look away now.
Here goes.

HQ

Chaos Lord
Daemon Weapon
Mark of Khorne
150
(to be attached to group of X6 PM's)

Daemon Prince
Wings
Warptime
155

TROOPS

Plague Marines X7
Melta's X2
Power Fist
Rhino
256

Plague Marines X7
Melta's X2
Power Fist
Rhino
256

Plague Marines X6
Plasma's X2
Power Fist
Rhino
243

HEAVY

Predator
Twin Lascannon
165

Predator
Autocannon
130

Vindicator
Possessed
145

1500 Point Exactly!

Basically I have Dropped a Sorcerer with the Lash & added a Lord with the MoK.
Also, I have dropped a Plague Marine from one squad to attach the Lord & add some CC punch.
Let me know what ye think please Dakka.
Cheers.

It looks solid. If the Plague Marines with the Khorne Lord are going to be assaulting, why take Plasma Guns? Personally, I don't like the Khorne Lord. I did the math some time ago, but if I recal correctly he has a ~40% chance of smacking himself in the face. Although using the Plague Marines might be a great buffer if he does fail, you have to be certain the Plague Marines can fight the opponent off if he fails. That almost defeats the purpose.

I like the amount of armor you present. You have a good mix of anti-tank and anti-infantry. I think you could get away with a Dreadnaught in there to add to the madness. Drop the Lord, give it a Missile Launcher and spread the extra points around. Maybe MoN for the DP to make him even tougher?

Well, the Lord might get stranded when the Rhino gets popped.
Therefore, I'd replace him by a winged DP with MoN and Nurgle's rot. It stays closer with the army theme.

Are you saying you're going to use 2 DP's instead of 1 lord + 1 DP ? If so that is a good choice because they work better in pairs. If you stick with the lord + squad and a lone DP I fear he will take a lot of shots before getting in range, but maybe that is part of your plan. Unless you really have a strong role for a single or double DP's (considering you aren't taking lash) you might consider dropping down to only 1 HQ and using those extra points to get more troops (you're leaning towards the low side).

As darkhound said, if you are keeping the 6-man plague marine squad one man short so you can put them with your lord, give them meltas and swap the plasma to another PM squad. Allows them to be better assault troops, although that is a bit against what plague marines are supposed to be for. You may consider dropping them entirely and getting a berzerker squad or raptors squad to escort your lord(give him wings for the raptors obviously). I personally use a 6-8man squad of raptors (/w aspiring champ wielding lightning claws, IoK, melta guns x2) to escort my MoN lord /w wings and daemon weapon (sometimes lightning claws). Works great for taking out key units quickly while the plague marines are stomping/riding up the field drawing fire.

I also think you left some upgrades out of the preds. Preds start at 70p, with a twin(I'm assuming you meant twin-linked?) lascannon it comes to 105pts. A pred with an autocannon is 70pts. So I think either you are adding upgrades you didnt tell us or you are looking at the wrong thing. The point values for the other units look fine though.

Preds - Since I'm on the topic, your preds could be set up better. The best cheap anti-infantry setup is taking the basic 70pt pred and adding heavy bolter sponsons for +30pts for a total of 100pts. Cheap , can move and shoot, and has up to 8 decent attacks. Personally I prefer havocs for most battles , but to each his own. The biggest thing I would look over when considering the pred is what you will be facing, and if they have easy ways of flanking and hitting that av11 side or av10 rear armor. They are incredibly vulnerable to any attack that doesnt hit from head on, and that isnt terribly hard to do.

If you do decide to take havocs, think about 4x autocannons or 2x ac + 2x missile launchers. Either setup works well, full ac's gives you a total of 8 str 7 48" 4ap shots, the missile launcher mix allows you to swap to either better armor/str or better anti-horde if needed. Havocs are excellent for getting high volumes of cheap but strong shots.

I second the havocs, Im feeling the havoc love at the moment. You also dont have any elites, consider an infiltrating chosen squad.

Im glad to see SOMEONE realises the sheer awesome of the DW Khorne Lord. I run one and its actually closer to a 30% chance to smack yourself Darkhound. Incidentally this is less than the chance of a Dred going astray so maybe they arent that bad eh?

Ive never had him hit himself ever and if he doesnt its like 8 attacks MINIMUM on the charge. Everytime I've used him he's has walked through every squad he has assaulted on the initial charge! I often thought it would be fun to take 10 of them outflanking/DS ing in Apoc or Planetstrike just for lolz

darkkt wrote:I second the havocs, Im feeling the havoc love at the moment. You also dont have any elites, consider an infiltrating chosen squad.

Chosen are very awesome. They have so many uses but I see so few people taking them or using them effectively. Take a bloodthirster, put a champ in the chosen squad, watch the BT rip through the champ and then rampage through the opponent's forces and cackle with glee. Equip the squad with 5x melta and pop heavy vehicles early on. Use 5x flamer and watch the poor fools squeal as they become bubbly little stains of tar on the battlefield. They will most likely be focus-fired right after they do something nasty to your enemy, but if used right, that one or two units they kill are going to make them very much worth the points. If you're lucky you might also be able to drop 1-2 squads of lesser daemons on them and tie up the enemy until the bulk of your force gets there and while your enemy is dealing with the daemons your chosen are tearing it up with 5x meltas.

Definitely underrated and under used unit.

Madgod wrote:Im glad to see SOMEONE realises the sheer awesome of the DW Khorne Lord. I run one and its actually closer to a 30% chance to smack yourself Darkhound. Incidentally this is less than the chance of a Dred going astray so maybe they arent that bad eh?

Isn't it 32%? Why not just say what it is rather than rounding? I agree that a khorne lord with DW is very vicious in CC, but for the points I would almost go with Kharne.

Kharne: 5 attacks (no bonus for charging, I think?), but hits much more easily (always a 2+), penetrates armor easily, bonus to str/ini in CC(meaning he hits first most of the time and wounds easier than the lord), and is immune to psykers and the bonus of force weapons. 16% chance of hitting a squad mate. Put him with a group of berzerkers and send him into the fray and watch tbe blood fly.

Khorne lord: 7-15 attacks, 32% chance of hurting himself and doing no attacks, lower ws/str/ini by far. Has benefit of being 25ish points cheaper.

Klueless wrote:Hey everyone.
I have been running what you might call a 'standard' Chaos line-up for this day & age.
Lot's of Plague Marines, in Tanks with a shed load of Heavy support, a Sorcerer, Daemon Prince & the Lash.
In an attempt to write a slightly different list with some CC punch I re-wrote my list a bit.
It hasn't changed much & does include multiple Chaotic Chapters/Icons. So if you are offended by this type of list please look away now.
Here goes.

HQ

Chaos Lord
Daemon Weapon
Mark of Khorne
150
(to be attached to group of X6 PM's)

Daemon Prince
Wings
Warptime
155

TROOPS

Plague Marines X7
Melta's X2
Power Fist
Rhino
256

Plague Marines X7
Melta's X2
Power Fist
Rhino
256

Plague Marines X6
Plasma's X2
Power Fist
Rhino
243

HEAVY

Predator
Twin Lascannon
165

Predator
Autocannon
130

Vindicator
Possessed
145

1500 Point Exactly!

Basically I have Dropped a Sorcerer with the Lash & added a Lord with the MoK.
Also, I have dropped a Plague Marine from one squad to attach the Lord & add some CC punch.
Let me know what ye think please Dakka.
Cheers.

Well I have a couple suggestions. First, if your gonna do a Khorne lord I suggest putting em with some Zerkers. Pm's are great and all, but my issue with them is that they are hard to kill in Cc and thats all. Once people realize that they will focus their power on the lord because hes a LOT squishier. With Zerkers most units won't get an attack! I suggest running em with a small retinue in a LR if you can make points, or a rhino if your feeling froggy.

I also might suggest marking your DP with Nurgle. Makes him way harder to kill.

I like the pred's, but I don't really see you NEEDING the lascannon pred. Especially with 4 meltas running around on troops that are stupidly hard to kill.

Just a few suggestions. Overall, tho, good list! I like it

actually, the chance of a dred going mad is 17%, so you're wrong

i am sure Klueless meant the first predator with also turret-mounted lascannon, which adds up to 165pts, the second one has turret-mounted autocannon, and lascannon sponsons, which adds up to 130pts


IMHO, your mixed-up units need a bunch of berzerkers! they're just great, and they can ride with your lord, so when he fails, the have no prob whatsoever to complete the combat


Automatically Appended Next Post:
lol, zid overtook me with the zerker squad

hippohroch wrote:

i am sure Klueless meant the first predator with also turret-mounted lascannon, which adds up to 165pts, the second one has turret-mounted autocannon, and lascannon sponsons, which adds up to 130pts

Possibly, or he had those options earlier, removed them, and didnt change the point values. Either way the first is imo a bad option for a pred, the second is better but a dakka pred still takes the cake for points/effectiveness. If he really needs a lot of lascannon shots there are cheaper ways of getting them that don't have crappy side/rear armor =p

Halsfield wrote:

hippohroch wrote:

i am sure Klueless meant the first predator with also turret-mounted lascannon, which adds up to 165pts, the second one has turret-mounted autocannon, and lascannon sponsons, which adds up to 130pts

Possibly, or he had those options earlier, removed them, and didnt change the point values. Either way the first is imo a bad option for a pred, the second is better but a dakka pred still takes the cake for points/effectiveness. If he really needs a lot of lascannon shots there are cheaper ways of getting them that don't have crappy side/rear armor =p

Especially at low level games, you don't need THAT much pen to be effective lol. Power fists and meltaguns take care of 90% of your issues, not to mention everyone has krak grenades base!

agree totally... las predator is overcharged with the new codex (look at the one in BT codex, 145pts... that's 20pts less)

obliterators are much more versatile, much more suited for this size of game

hippohroch wrote:actually, the chance of a dred going mad is 17%, so you're wrong

If you roll either a 1 or a 6 it goes mad. Isnt that 1/3 rolls or a 33% chance? Last I checked it was

Halsfield wrote: Isn't it 32%? Why not just say what it is rather than rounding? I agree that a khorne lord with DW is very vicious in CC, but for the points I would almost go with Kharne.

Kharne: 5 attacks (no bonus for charging, I think?), but hits much more easily (always a 2+), penetrates armor easily, bonus to str/ini in CC(meaning he hits first most of the time and wounds easier than the lord), and is immune to psykers and the bonus of force weapons. 16% chance of hitting a squad mate. Put him with a group of berzerkers and send him into the fray and watch tbe blood fly.

Khorne lord: 7-15 attacks, 32% chance of hurting himself and doing no attacks, lower ws/str/ini by far. Has benefit of being 25ish points cheaper.

You are right, but the idea of a Khorne Lord, is that he can do this by himself. Without taking the zerkers, most squads will die anyway to the lord and youll save heaps of points. Plus I'm pretty sure his minimum attacks on the charge is like 8 or 9 not 7 but I could be wrong.

If you roll either a 1 or a 6 it goes mad. Isnt that 1/3 rolls or a 33% chance? Last I checked it was

you're right, it's just that it does not kill your own things at 6 that means, it goes mad in bad way only in 17% of cases

Wow! Thanks for all the input folks! I really appreciate it. It would seem that a squad of Bezerker's is the way to go. I watched a programme about Vikings recently & apparently Bezerker is some kind of Viking word for the rush of blood as you charge into battle..... Bloodlust kind of. How very apt. Anyway, I digress.....
To the dude who said I got my Pred point wrong... It was as the next guy suggested, I have equipped them with the Las Sponsons & forgot to add that slight fact. Sorry. I can see the general consensus is that the las Pred is too expensive these days. I will consider dropping the Twin linked gun. I do love it though.
As for the rest, I'm not keen AT ALL on Chaos dred's, Have never tried Havoc's (will consider) & haven't really had enough opportunity to field test the Khorne Lord.
Hoping to Play a game later.
I will post the results if it happens.
Cheers

Chaos Lord: I think he's priced wrongly, I don't think daemon weapons are 50 points...the total should be 140 for the Lord.

I think the Lord works better with zerkers for theme as others have said.
But the PMs are good as well if you are risk averse, and so won't get into too much trouble if he whiffs and the squad may take some no retreat saves (which they do well against).
Basically you have a offensive IC supporting a defensive troop choice, rather than an IC and Squad going fullout.

DP look ok, I do prefer pairs personally.

Plague Marines all look ok.
I do agree with switching out the plasma guns for flamers or more meltas.

Pred: Kinda bland of both pairs.
Generally you will see:
Autocannon+hvy bolters
Autocannon+sponson Las
I think those are the most effective uses of them, they are not cost effective as loyalists though.

Vindi is ok.
________________
Khorne lords are: lose big/win big, but from what I've seen they are kind average.
The str 4 is a real downer.
As for the dread: it's not so bad, it's cheap, it's armor, equip it with stuff that's not too lethal to you when you have the choice and it's good to go.

Come on, you are using a bloodfeeder, the dread going crazy should not be an issue for a bloodfeeder user.

My 7 Cents.

I have a Small khorne army and my lord goes through everybody. he doesn't have a deamon weapon but he has a great weapon. its still incredible how he goes through people.

Sanctjud wrote:Chaos Lord: I think he's priced wrongly, I don't think daemon weapons are 50 points...the total should be 140 for the Lord.

S**t, you are totally right. No wonder I failed Maths.

@Gutta153:
Hmm, I haven't heard of great weapon since the last Edition of chaos where it was a 2 hand weapon that granted +1 str (not a power weapon) for like 3 points...

Unless you mean a power weapon... then you'd be gimping yourself as a pair of claws would be more preferable.

@Klueless:
No problem, more points is always good.

My 7 Cents.

I just played a game with the above list against Ork's and got my ass handed to me.
At the last minute I re-wrote the list, took out the MoK from the Lord & added the MoN to the DP. Don't know if it was the way I played or the weapons, but I got minced.
I think I might agree with the bloke who said earlier that I should add some Flamers & HB.
How depressing. Back to the drawing board I guess.
Your thoughts on this please.....
DP with the MoN. OK, so it makes them T6, but surely it only really effects small arms, to which I have a 3+ answer, where as, if I have to face Lascannons or Powerfists etc, it really makes no effect to the result.
I can see how it is possible to take out the DP with volume of small arms fire, but I think or at least suspect that it might be more beneficial to have a better Inv save or perhaps more attacks...... Thoughts welcome.

But without it, you are vulnerable to bolter fire. T6 makes you nearly immune to them, while T5 makes you only resilient. I think you should just play more games with the list and really get a feel for it, but do you mind posting what you remember from his list and a mini-batrep so we can see what really caused you to die?

I don't see how you lost to orcs unless he went horde. Hordes a very anti-chaos/SM list, and the ONLY way to combat horde is to do horde Chaos with a buttload of templates/blasts. I'd like to see a battlerep as well!

I suggested flamers.
They are always a good addition to all-comers IMO.

In addition, agreed with DarkHOund, (though I don't purchase Mark of Nurgle for my DPs due to lack of points) I can't count the number of times storm bolters and the like have taken wounds off my Daemon PRince, T6 WILL make a difference vs. small arms.

But it depeneds on what you want the DP to do. I run 2 spartan DP's with wings, so their loss isn't too huge in the scope of my army....while others use it as a pure beatstick and so durability would be preferable.

My 7 Cents.

DarkHound wrote:But without it, you are vulnerable to bolter fire. T6 makes you nearly immune to them, while T5 makes you only resilient. I think you should just play more games with the list and really get a feel for it, but do you mind posting what you remember from his list and a mini-batrep so we can see what really caused you to die?

Hey there. Thanks for the comments.
This is in response to yourself & the dude who asked what beat me in the next comment.
From what I can remember:-
A Warboss with a group of about ten guys that just seemed unkillable! They had a Painboy with them & they all had 2 wounds each anyway. Ridiculous!
I'm pretty sure there was two Klaws in that group too.
Another large group of men, standard. both of the above had some kind of vehicle.
Errr, Two HUGE squads of regular men, that for the most of it just sat on two objectives at the back.
6 Defkopters, in two squads of 3, possibly with some kind of rokkits & I recall the mention of buzzsaws.
They took out all my ranged tanks with no real problem due to an Outflank.
Some dude called Snikrot? (I think that was right). He didn't seem to do much but looked scary. By the time he came in I was being mopped up anyway.
Anyway, Gotta run guys. Things to do.
Thought for the game - Too much high powered weaponry. Not enough Infantry Killing power.

Sounds like you were unlucky against John's orks mate. If you're playing him, you should probably swap meltas for flamers as he has no heavy vehicles. Seems like orks with lots of power klaws would own your army, I'd put it up to a mismatch - your predators, meltas etc are a bit useless against cheap boyz.

The list was:

Warboss + power claw
unit of Nobz with a mix of big-choppas and claws wearing 4+ armour(
Painboy (granting FNP)
in a Trukk

10 boyz in a truk

20 boyz
20 boyz

3 koptas twin linked rokkits + 1 buzz saw (outflank)
3 koptas ditto (outflank)

Kommandos (i think?) + snikrott

Dawn of war.5 objectives, evenly spread. Orks deployed first, 2 trukks deployed 24" in.

Chaos turn 1
Chaos seized initiative, popped both trukks, which "out of controlled" and their cargo got out uninjured.

2 plague marine squads (including Lord) moved forward and jumped out of their rhinos, shot at the Orks with little effect.

Ork Turn 1
Big Boyz squads move on at the back onto objectives

Warboss and Nobz + 10 strong boyz unit charge the two disembarked plague marine squads.

Herin the fate of the battle was decided. It was a bloody assault that lasted 2-3 turns, but decisively, the Orks got the charge and so managed to win the opening combat which got them the foothold.

During turn 2 the DP counter-charged but whiffed a bit and was eventually power-clawed down. Eventually both PM squads plus the Lord and the DP were wiped out, leaving the rest of the Ork army to go round mopping up with no real pressure on them.

General thoughts: Orks were allowed the charge, which proved decisive. Once their transports were blown up first turn would probably have been best to whittle them down, and then when they get close CHARGE THEM, dont' let them charge you. Assault is inevitable, just do it on your terms.

Alternativley use your mobility (rhinos) to ignore them completely. It was only the NObz which touched your plague marines, the regular Boyz failed to wound even once.

You'll go better once you know the relative strengths of your army vs Orks. Bottom line is shoot them for as long as possible then charge them.

@derekbadger:

2 Trukks with contents deploying in DoW?
No, the dedicated transports count as a ‘unit’.
So the most non-HQ units you could have deployed was the Squad in the truck.

I don’t think it was that useful to get out in the first place, should have positioned the rhinos as walls, then let the orc charge them… whatever if they blow up, next turn you have bunched up orcs to flamer.

Nobs are pretty hard. The only easy way of dealing with them is the vindi.

Were blight grenades used… certainly nob squads are deadly even with out the charge bonus, but every little thing helps.

A Warp Time Daemon prince whiffing? Due to good saves or poor rolling? Poor rolling would 1’s and 2’s on 20 dice….. all at the same time.

My 7 Cents.

Hey Sanctjud!

Some salient points you made there .

Re: Trukk deployment, this had come up before in previous games, I thought it was as you said, our Orky player read it differently. Not sure this made such a great difference though tbh.

Re: blight grenades..... Klueless forgot to use them, which is strange as he always bloody remembers vs me

Re: Warp time, again a memory lapse...

Either of these two things could potentially have swung the assault in Chaos favour, but I still think it would have left them sufficiently weakened so as to be easy prey to Kopters, snikrot etc

Nobz w/ warboss is tough to kill, I'll admit... but your list should have been able to deal with it I reckon! Run some zerkers with the lord in place of PM's. You'll kill a lotta nobz before they get a swing off if your lucky