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Just wondering if anyone uses Chaos Dreads regularly; everytime i've used one it either kills nothing or blows my own stuff. Ive tried it with 2 ccws and it doesnt kill my own stuff, it just spends too much time walking and not actually doing stuff. Any thoughts?

Run two together with CCWs for 200 points (or 210 for heavy flamers). I think theyre great, just adding to the list of things your opponent cant ignore thats running at him. Armour 12 isnt exactly the easiest thing to destroy.

Really, your only two options should be dreads or terminators for elites.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/232266.page

Lengthy read, but might be worth checking out if you're considering taking a dread.

anticitizen013 wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/232266.page

Lengthy read, but might be worth checking out if you're considering taking a dread.

Whether or not you think the dread has to turn around or not really doesnt matter unless you are playing with friends. In a social environment with strangers, youre not always going to get your way, whether it be a roll off or a tournament organizer saying otherwise.

It's always best to assume that they will hit the closest unit regardless so youre not left out of luck when you do have to turn around and blow up that rhino.

Yeah that's definitely true, but it's still good to have that knowledge for different options whilst playing with friends.

Even for only 100 points, a unit not doing what you want to to for 1/3 turns is not a good use of points. Randomness is a bad thing, especially where that randomness can be detrimentail to you. There are almost certainly better things to spend your points (and your money) on than CSM dreads.

Regwon wrote:Even for only 100 points, a unit not doing what you want to to for 1/3 turns is not a good use of points. Randomness is a bad thing, especially where that randomness can be detrimentail to you. There are almost certainly better things to spend your points (and your money) on than CSM dreads.

1/6 for close combat dreads. Not really a problem when you just need 2 or 3 turns to reach the enemy anyways. Even if it goes crazy for a turn, your opponent cant ignore it. Dreads achieve a specific role that no other unit can (other than defilers for 150 points a HS slot). If it fits into your army, 100 points is a steal.

I would never recommend a shooty dread.

has anyone contacted GW about the dread rule debate? maybe they have a stance on it... either way i'll just stick to ccws with my dreads. thanks for the help.

CCW Dreads are a decent add-in, although one that I frequently ignore due to the necessity of Termicides for extra cheap melta coverage.

Shooty dreads I think are a waste of points, not to mention a real threat to your own units.

Dreads are amazingly cheap target saturation, and butchers when they finally get to the enemy. You just have to put up with it not wanting to move every so often. To be honest, this isn't such a problem after about turn 3 when he is close to the enemy. They can't ignore him because he is just as likely to fleet into his lines as he is to sit around picking his nose.

Don't give him anything that would hurt your own units. If you must, get him a Missile Launcher, but he is meant to be a suicidal melee unit.

Great against Nids or any other army that is in your deployment zone in turn 2 (regardless of build)! keep them in reserve, then once they pop out you can place them wherever they are needed most (ie 1 inch from nid swarm) - then whatever they do they will be hurting the enemy.

As Night Lords said, take 2-3, keep them as cheap as possible with 2x CCW's and heavy flamers, and run them together so that if they shoot each other, it doesn't hurt anything. I run them with extra armor as well to keep them in the fight even with a crew stunned result, but it's probably not necessary. (It also keeps them from losing an attack in CC if they get stunned by a powerfist or something, since it becomes just shaken instead.)

Basically, they move 6" towards the enemy, then run, then move 6" again, and run, until you get to charge stuff. Raging is bonus while fire frenzy is "meh" and the opponent cannot ignore them. They work even better in a chaos "monster mash" style list.

It doesn't have to be a 'monster mash' list (aka defilers and dreads).

It should be a mech list with a hvy investment in troops, as dreads are classically tasked with supporting infantry.

Are they viable? Yes.
Can you get around the 'hurting own dudes' Yes.
Does it still suck to stand around NOT doing what it should be doing when you roll a 1? Yes.

/shrug, if you can look past the Fire frenzy it's not bad, and echoing others: KEEP IT CHEAP!!!

My 7 Cents.

I use at least one in tourneys with 2cc weapons and if given the proper terrain and cover plus i never seem to roll makes dreads very deadly

I think the best configuration for a Chaos Dreadnought is the classic Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, Heavy Flamer, and then something like a Plasma Cannon.

Basically the idea is that your Dreadnought should be prepared to both shoot and engage in combat. If you take a Missile Launcher, your Dreadnought will miss a turn shooting on a Blood Rage result, and double-down on a Fire Frenzy result. Ditto for taking two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons.

By taking a mix your Dreadnought is ready for anything, and you can plan for contingencies like Blood Rage and Fire Frenzy.

If you play them the correct way then a dread with CCW and Multi-melta is a pretty decent buy in the right army.

If you play with them the wrong way, I would steer clear.

Nurglitch wrote:I think the best configuration for a Chaos Dreadnought is the classic Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, Heavy Flamer, and then something like a Plasma Cannon.

Basically the idea is that your Dreadnought should be prepared to both shoot and engage in combat. If you take a Missile Launcher, your Dreadnought will miss a turn shooting on a Blood Rage result, and double-down on a Fire Frenzy result. Ditto for taking two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons.

By taking a mix your Dreadnought is ready for anything, and you can plan for contingencies like Blood Rage and Fire Frenzy.

If you are looking to sink in a ton of points and have a unit that really isnt good at anything, then this is the perfect idea...

A ton of points? You mean 125pts is a ton of points?

I would be more worried about the potential to plasma my own guys. ;-/ CC dreads may sit around every so often, but will not kill your troops. And they are cheap!

I run mine with a multi melta, sit it next to your land raider and at least 13 inches away and bob's your uncle. It mauls anything it comes across and at a 100ish points its a total steal!

Plasma with HF costs 5 points more than the CC dread. And when fire frenzy occurs, you get something out of it. Uhh yeah i prefer to go with the ruling no shooting in the back.

And both dreads are less than 125 points. Think termicide cheap.

Nurglitch wrote:A ton of points? You mean 125pts is a ton of points?

Don't forget to add in points of the stuff on your own side it torches.

whitedragon:

125pts plus zero is still 125 points.

chaos dreads are random and sometimes it sucks.

the dual ccw with heavy flamer is the one I use.
the last event I was in a 25 orks were grouped around 2 berzerkers and the dread was just outside of comabt ready to charge. he did the smarter thing and fire frenzied leaving the berzerkers standing among the charred orc bodies. the funny thing was he was happy that he didn't kill all the berzerkers before the fire frenzy

if it helps when im using my chaos dread i send it in with a unit of termies, two things brilliant in close combat and it lessens the damage done if he goes mental

It's probably useful at this point to follow up on Timmah's point:

How a Chaos Dreadnought's Fire Frenzy works is disputed.

The rules for Fire Frenzy say that the Dreadnought engages the closest visible unit, friend or foe, and then rotates to face them.

Some say that a Dreadnought has a 360 degree line of sight, and that means that the closest visible unit will usually be a friendly unit beside or behind the Dreadnought at the beginning of the turn.

Others say that a Dreadnought has 45 degree lines of sight from its weapons, and that means that the closest visible unit will be whatever is in front of its weapons at the beginning of the turn.

In the first case, Chaos Dreadnoughts are not viable unless you either run them in pairs, side-by-side, and armed with weapons that cannot affect AV12 (usually two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons Combi-bolters and Heavy Flamer, or Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters, etc), or handing out beside a Land Raider, which will be immune to weapons like the Plasma Cannon and Twin-Linked Autocannons.

In the second case, Chaos Dreadnoughts are not only viable, but pretty useful regardless of how you arm them (meaning they have much more variety of useful configurations, always a plus in my book), because occasionally they'll get double firepower against the enemy. As I argued above though, you'd do best to arm them so you can take advantage of both Crazed! results.

While the second way of playing it better reflects the rules, in my opinion, the former way of playing it (the way the rules actually dictated at the end of 4th edition when Dreadnoughts had a 360 degree line of sight apart from their weapons) is the more popular way and I'd expect most players you'll encounter will want it played like that, particularly if they're on the other side of the table!

Regardless, discuss the matter with your opponent or tournament organizer prior to playing, because it will affect the performance of your Chaos Dreadnoughts. As an editorial, my opinion again, I think they make sense if you play them by the rules, rather than by the 4th edition rules...

Regardless of which way you play, the photo of Black Legion Terminators escorting a Black Legion Dreadnought with a Plasma Cannon on p.75 is horrifically stupid, particularly since one of the Terminators is out of unit coherency...

Nurglitch wrote:A ton of points? You mean 125pts is a ton of points?

It actually is a lot of points. Thats nearly a 10 man CSM squad, a termicide squad, etc. Im not surprised to see you dont think that it's a lot of points though given some of your other suggestions in other topics.

Youre getting a unit that isnt great at shooting, isnt great at CC, and is going to be a problem the entire game for your own side - on that note, please dont give me the BS about dreadnought line of sight "rule", no one cares about how you play it. When in a social setting, youre not going to always get your way and the dreadnought will start blowing your own stuff up.

Gahh madness.

Your all throwing the points for a SM dread around.

CSM dreads are cheaper.

110 points for plasma cannon with HF, 5 points less for the CC dread with HF.

Voronesh wrote:Gahh madness.

Your all throwing the points for a SM dread around.

CSM dreads are cheaper.

110 points for plasma cannon with HF, 5 points less for the CC dread with HF.

Regardless, its a waste of points for a dread that has no idea what it wants to do and now really has to ensure no friendlies are the closest unit.

An Oblit for 75 points is better if you want a plasma cannon. Nothing else other than a defiler has what the dreadnought has to offer in CC.

Well

I guessit depends on the ruling. If you go with the 4th ed ruling, id never touch a dread, not even in my sleep.

if you go with the more like 3rd ed ruling, then its absolutely worth it.

Plasma dread wants to CC anyway, it just shoots stuff as it closes. Fire frenzy is an added bonus. 105 points of Dread fire frenzy once did remove a full warp spider squad from the game. And Plasma cannons are alays nice.


And you did touch the other point. Defilers can offer what a dread can, but at I3 and WS3. Sure a defiler has more attacks, but a dread can make em count.