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Hey guys. I just played a game with a new list I wrote for my Chaos (Nurgle) guys & got my ass handed to me.
I'm not a new player & think I have a good grip of the rules, but when I played a 2000 point Ork army earlier I just couldn't kill them!
I could probably use a few more flamers or pie plates perhaps but if anyone has any extra advice about this list I'd be happy to hear it.
I only really wrote the list for fun & just wanted to see what the Land Raider & Typhus were like. I wasn't best impressed.

HQ
Daemon Prince - Wings - Warptime - Nurgle (to be deep struck)
Typhus

Troops
Plague Marines - Melta X2 - P.Fist - P.Icon - Rhino
Plague Marines - Melta X2 - P.Fist - P.Icon - Rhino
Plague Marines - Plasma Guns X2 - P.Fist - P.Icon - Rhino

Elites
Terminators X3 - Lightning Claws - Slaanesh (Retinue for Typhus)
Land Raider - Dedicated to Typhus & Retinue

Heavy
Predator - Las Sponsons
Predator - Las Sponsons
Vindicator - Possessed - Combi Weapon

1998

Right. This is pretty much my usual list apart from a few P.Icons. Typhus. The Terminators with LR & the combi Weapon on the Vindicator.
My thinking on the line of the Terminators is that they will all get re-rolls to wound & strike before most things (same as Typhus). Although in practice they really didn't work that well.
Anyone got any thoughts on this list?
Cheers.
Klueless.

What kinda of Ork list was it? Green Tide? Battlewagon rush? etc...

I think that maybe not deep striking the Daemon Prince is another good option, I think he's tough enough to start on the board.

The real problem I'm looking at here is that... your list doesn't really have problems. It's a solid enough list to where I'm surprised you got beat so badly as you say.

Could you get a bat-rep up maybe? An overview of the game if anything.

BTW I could have predecited that Typhus and Friends would underperform. Truthfully I would reccomend axing that unit (that's like what an almost 625ish point unit?) for another Nurgle Prince and then you could grab another PM Squad (flamers on them) and then you could grab some DSing termies or just Termicide.

Ditto what he said.

The following suggestions are based on the fact that you lost to Orks.

I would switch the Termies over to MoN. This will allow them to weather small arms, and str3 melee incredibly well. . The daemon prince can use nurgle's rot to great effect, killing many Greenskins. Same w/ typhus.

Hope that was slightly helpful?

I've no experience with Typhus, but I would say drop him. He's pretty pricey. For an assault term unit, you're better off with a lord or a sorc.

NEVER DS the DP. He'll hit the ground and be stuck there for one whole turn. But if you try and DS him near some kind of cover, you risk killing him. Just stick to hopping him around moving up. Also be choosy on what the DP hits. Mobs are no bueno. He'll tarpit and the claw will get him in a few rounds. Shoot for tanks, weak units, support.

Drop the P icons, you won't be DS'ing/summoning anything here.
I would add a fourth termy, and add nurgle for fluff. (not required)

I'm short on time, I'll try more later if I can find this again.

EzeKK wrote:What kinda of Ork list was it? Green Tide? Battlewagon rush? etc...

I think that maybe not deep striking the Daemon Prince is another good option, I think he's tough enough to start on the board.

The real problem I'm looking at here is that... your list doesn't really have problems. It's a solid enough list to where I'm surprised you got beat so badly as you say.

Could you get a bat-rep up maybe? An overview of the game if anything.

BTW I could have predecited that Typhus and Friends would underperform. Truthfully I would reccomend axing that unit (that's like what an almost 625ish point unit?) for another Nurgle Prince and then you could grab another PM Squad (flamers on them) and then you could grab some DSing termies or just Termicide.

Hey dude. It was a Battlewagon rush army.
I have never deep struck my Daemon prince before. I just figured I'd give it a go. However, he got shot to pieces before he even moved.
I actually got tabled off the board - practically.
The list I was facing was sort of like this..... (I don't know much about Orks)
Warboss with some guys with a painboy that were a MAJOR thorn in my side the whole game.
Some Mech guy with some Lootas (I think they're called) that got on average about 30 shots a go.
A load of regular Orks. Each group with a Klaw. 3 or 4 perhaps.
Another X2 groups of the Lootas? (Guys that shot 30ish shots a turn).
3 Defkopters.
& 4 Vehicles that were Armour 14 on the front (one of which was a dedicate transport)
& 2 vehicles that were fast, but only armour 10.

I think that was all.
I did actually film the game, so I could put a video on youtube but I really don't want to show my glorious Chaos army getting creamed on the net.

Basically, all my Tanks got popped or punched to death. My HQ's got walked all over or shot to pieces.
Then my troops tried their best to hold their own but got overwhelmed.
Gutted.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iboshi2 wrote:The following suggestions are based on the fact that you lost to Orks.

I would switch the Termies over to MoN. This will allow them to weather small arms, and str3 melee incredibly well. . The daemon prince can use nurgle's rot to great effect, killing many Greenskins. Same w/ typhus.

Hope that was slightly helpful?

I'm convinced that the list isn't 'bad' per-say. I think perhaps I was a tad unlucky. I'll try it once or twice more before I go back to the drawing board.
I did put some thought into it. I was kinda gutted that I lost. Even more gutted that I lost my land Raider to a group of normal men with a Klaw that had some kinda banner that gave then +1 Strength, thus making a Klaw S9. D'oh!
Bloody Orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Humblesteve wrote:I've no experience with Typhus, but I would say drop him. He's pretty pricey. For an assault term unit, you're better off with a lord or a sorc.

NEVER DS the DP. He'll hit the ground and be stuck there for one whole turn. But if you try and DS him near some kind of cover, you risk killing him. Just stick to hopping him around moving up. Also be choosy on what the DP hits. Mobs are no bueno. He'll tarpit and the claw will get him in a few rounds. Shoot for tanks, weak units, support.

Drop the P icons, you won't be DS'ing/summoning anything here.
I would add a fourth termy, and add nurgle for fluff. (not required)

I'm short on time, I'll try more later if I can find this again.

That sounds like a good idea.
I had never DS the Prince before. I just figured I give it a go (hence the P.Icons). I could save some point there definitely!
Typhus.... Hmmm. He looks cool. Has some nice rules, but as you said.... A Lord or Sorcerer is defo better.
I actually usually run a sorcerer with 'Lash & Slaanesh' (a bit cheaty, I know). But a lot of my mates complain about it so I figured I try something fresh. (probably because they loose! LOL!)
My original choice was a standard Lord with a Daemon Weapon. He actually took out an entire SM assault squad before they could touch me the last time I played! Awesome!
However, this time I just figured I'd try something different.
I love the idea of a 4th Termie with Nurgle & I'll defo Take the advice on DS the prince.
Like the idea of beating the the little kids with the prince too.
Thanks for the advice dude.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can see the general consensus is going to be to switch the Terminators to Nurgle, rather than to have them as Slaanesh. However, the reason I've given them Slaanesh is so that they strike before most I4 models. How do most think Nurgle will fair up to this with Lightning Claws?
As it is they died quicker than I had hoped.

My suggestions;

Tyhpus ios terrible. Absolute garbage, and against ANYTHING with a power fist, he'll die. If you face a CSM foe using zerkers he'll dominate typhus. A dread gets into CC with him, he dies. Battlewagon rush nobs = one dead 225 point model. Drop him, hes not worth it.

How many PM's were you running? i'm assuming 7-8 a squad by the points

Your nurgle DP looks fine, but never DS it >< it moves quickly on the board and can weather a LOT of firepower!

For the termis make em Nurgle, and up them to at least 5. Twin LC Nurgle Termis are beastmode (thats how I run em) and they're very difficult to wound once they get into CC!

I suggest possibly running a Greater Demon as well. Get rid of typhus, up the termis to 5, tack in a GD, and you have points to spare!

For the preds I (personally) suggest replacing them with vindicators. Its fluffy because DG used Vindis extensively, and rolling 2D6 pick the highest is awesome. If you hit a battlewagon or land raider your chances to pen are pretty damn high!

for the LR give it demonic possession. You cannot risk it getting stunned out in the open! Or if you only have the points for it, extra armor is good as well.

Personally your list is rather shooty, so I'd probably stick with that theme and just use the terms to counter-assault. Otherwise looks ok!

Well, I forget to mention my thoughts on the termies, so they do need to be either Nurgle or Tzeentch. It just makes them SO much more survivable. I do think though that if you go nurgle giving them combi-weapons might be a better idea.

Lootas are the guys who pump out a rediculous number of shots.

Ahhh the good ol' boss + nobs + FNP. They are a pain in the butt. The best way to get rid of these guys is to just blundgon them to death with firepower or with MC's.

The Fast Vehicles were probably Buggies I think.

Really If you are just going to drop Typhus and not the LR or anything, I might just grab another PM squad using his points and not bother with a Chaos Lord or Sorc. If anything though I really just reccomend grabbing another nurgle prince, princes are so good it's hard to justify not taking one. (Unless you want a Lash Sorc but why not take a Lash Prince ?)

I do reccomend putting the video up for the main reason of that we get to tell you what we think you did wrong or maybe what happened.

First things first, by spreading out your two predators on the sides you have a pincer on the field for lascannons / ---- \ type of thing. The LR with the rest of the army in the middle. This way if they rush your center you got side shots on them!

The Hardest part of facing a list like this with Chaos is that you really don't have any fast react units that can go and get the side armor of the damn things and blow them to kingdom come. Like Smurfs got Landspeeders and Attack bikes, Eldar got everything imagianable etc...

I would reccomend to try and get something around to try and get his lootas below 11 men so that they will break, the positive here is that Orks suck at trying to take out AV14 so your Landraider is the ultamite source of getting past the orks.

A Deep striking Nurgle Terminator squad with a heavy flamer would probably be pretty effective but Crippling the Battlewagon rush should probably be the first concern.

Also, don't be afraid to prepare one of the Plaugemarine squads to be sacrificed, throw it into an ork mob before it can multi-charge and get ready to wipe it out with the vindi and the other 2 the next turn or if they aren't doing that bad, be ready to assault the DP in. Smurfs do this amazingly though since they can ATSKNF out of the combat and then ruin the squad.

Zid wrote:My suggestions;

Tyhpus ios terrible. Absolute garbage, and against ANYTHING with a power fist, he'll die. If you face a CSM foe using zerkers he'll dominate typhus. A dread gets into CC with him, he dies. Battlewagon rush nobs = one dead 225 point model. Drop him, hes not worth it.

How many PM's were you running? i'm assuming 7-8 a squad by the points

Your nurgle DP looks fine, but never DS it >< it moves quickly on the board and can weather a LOT of firepower!

For the termis make em Nurgle, and up them to at least 5. Twin LC Nurgle Termis are beastmode (thats how I run em) and they're very difficult to wound once they get into CC!

I suggest possibly running a Greater Demon as well. Get rid of typhus, up the termis to 5, tack in a GD, and you have points to spare!

For the preds I (personally) suggest replacing them with vindicators. Its fluffy because DG used Vindis extensively, and rolling 2D6 pick the highest is awesome. If you hit a battlewagon or land raider your chances to pen are pretty damn high!

for the LR give it demonic possession. You cannot risk it getting stunned out in the open! Or if you only have the points for it, extra armor is good as well.

Personally your list is rather shooty, so I'd probably stick with that theme and just use the terms to counter-assault. Otherwise looks ok!

Cheers dude. I appreciate the info.
I am running 8 man squads of Plagues. (Forgot to add that) & I can defo see your point about Typhus... Cool model though.
I guess your right about the list being shooty. Maybe I'm trying to make it 'too' general. If there is such a thing.
I'm convinced the list is OK.
I have made these amendments:-
Drop Typhus - Add:-
Chaos Lord - Terminator Armour - Daemon Weapon - Nurgle
Also:-
X1 Extra Terminator - Nurgle
That take the points to 1958. So what to do with the other 42 points.....?
I think It should work. Can't be any worse, that's for sure....

2 words: Havoc Launchers.

Now each of your Rhinos puts out about as much anti-infantry firepower as the squad it carries.

EzeKK wrote:Well, I forget to mention my thoughts on the termies, so they do need to be either Nurgle or Tzeentch. It just makes them SO much more survivable. I do think though that if you go nurgle giving them combi-weapons might be a better idea.

Lootas are the guys who pump out a rediculous number of shots.

Ahhh the good ol' boss + nobs + FNP. They are a pain in the butt. The best way to get rid of these guys is to just blundgon them to death with firepower or with MC's.

The Fast Vehicles were probably Buggies I think.

Really If you are just going to drop Typhus and not the LR or anything, I might just grab another PM squad using his points and not bother with a Chaos Lord or Sorc. If anything though I really just reccomend grabbing another nurgle prince, princes are so good it's hard to justify not taking one. (Unless you want a Lash Sorc but why not take a Lash Prince ?)

I do reccomend putting the video up for the main reason of that we get to tell you what we think you did wrong or maybe what happened.

First things first, by spreading out your two predators on the sides you have a pincer on the field for lascannons / ---- \ type of thing. The LR with the rest of the army in the middle. This way if they rush your center you got side shots on them!

The Hardest part of facing a list like this with Chaos is that you really don't have any fast react units that can go and get the side armor of the damn things and blow them to kingdom come. Like Smurfs got Landspeeders and Attack bikes, Eldar got everything imagianable etc...

I would reccomend to try and get something around to try and get his lootas below 11 men so that they will break, the positive here is that Orks suck at trying to take out AV14 so your Landraider is the ultamite source of getting past the orks.

A Deep striking Nurgle Terminator squad with a heavy flamer would probably be pretty effective but Crippling the Battlewagon rush should probably be the first concern.

Also, don't be afraid to prepare one of the Plaugemarine squads to be sacrificed, throw it into an ork mob before it can multi-charge and get ready to wipe it out with the vindi and the other 2 the next turn or if they aren't doing that bad, be ready to assault the DP in. Smurfs do this amazingly though since they can ATSKNF out of the combat and then ruin the squad.

Some awesome tactics here dude. Especially the predator bit. I had both mine on the same side of the board. Maybe the beginning of my downfall.
I have considered using X2 Daemon princes. I may well end up swinging that way in the end. I have just commented above with my latest idea though. What do you think....
Chaos Lord - Terminator Armour - Daemon Weapon - Nurgle.
Might work. Might not. I'll see.
I do like the idea of using some faster moving units such as Chaos Bikes. They are rather points heavy though......
Cheers bud.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkHound wrote:2 words: Havoc Launchers.

Now each of your Rhinos puts out about as much anti-infantry firepower as the squad it carries.

Do you really rate them so much?
I've never actually used them.
Have you worked the figures on that?
I'd be interested to know the stats on them. IE - 50% chance of this, 20% chance of that.
You catch my drift? Maths was never my strong point.

IMHO daemon weapons are a bit to risky for my liking but they can be quite effective. I would only run a lord like that if your a bit points strapped and you have a unit he would go well with.

Don't get chaos bikers btw! They are expensive and pretty crappy at that .

If you want a "faster" unit I'd go with a raptor squad if anything, but you reall dont "need" it.

Havoc Launchers, seconded.

They'll kill plenty of Orks and make your opponent worry about your Rhinos a little more than he should.

The sound of his list is competetively solid. This is good and bad. In the FLGS the guy with a list like that is gonna be a little overconfident. Learn to bait him.

Don't deploy on the 12. If you really need that forward objective we can get it later.
Try and bait his nobs into a position where your vin will be within 24 and you have side armor on the BW with a pred+ friends.
Run the DP straight for the lootas (using cover of course). He'll either have to pour 30+ shots at it or you get 2-3KP
Tank shock anything under 10 bodies. He'll either think the klaws will do the job (and they might, this is a gamble) or they'll break before that.
Str 8+ is the recommended nob weapon, hence the vin follow up shot. When they bail from the pred take down you drop the pie plate.

The 30 boyz/klaw unit always gives me a hard time, but the longer you can make them walk the better.
Everything said is all good info so far.

Unit of 30 boyz? Tankshock+blasts. 6" tankshock to one side, forcing all the boyz to bunch up at the center. Small blasts will pick up 8 or 9, and large blasts will almost get the entire squad.

Drop Typhus like a bad habbit.

He's an overpriced special character that can get punked by the first power fist sarge that gives him a funny look. Actually this can be pretty much said for all the CSM special characters. (abbadon would've been pretty good if his deamon weapon wasn't so busy opening his throat.)

Sorry to hear you lost mate. No, actually I love it. Bloody plague marines.

But I agree with a lot of what's said here. Typhus does seem pretty expensive, since he's still just sweet sweet candy to any meltagun/powerfist. Maybe with such expensive troops, you need cheaper HQs: how about the old lash sorcerer (who could have been very useful in that game, right?) and a cheap chaos lord, deamon weapon and mark of your choice, maybe MoK.

That'd give you some points for havoc launchers, d. possession on the land raider, and bulking up the terminator unit. I agree that nurgle or tzeentch is the way to go for termis, take a cue from thunderhammer/stormshield marines and increase their survivability.

So possible changes to list: Use either 2 daemon princes, or 2 cheap HQs, or a combination of the two. Try havoc launchers on the rhinos, and possesion on the land raider. Change the terminator unit a bit. Maybe they need some combi-weapons or power fists as a priority.

Dunno where you're going to get the points. Scrapping Typhus will save you a chunk, p. icons and the combi-weapon on a vindicator are obviously not that important (you do know that if you fire the demo cannon, no other weapons can fire that turn, right?)

Tactical advice: Hide the daemon prince behind the land raider, its safer than deepstriking. As said above, assault small ork units, tank shock/flame/shoot up big ork units. The guy who beat you is a pretty good player, with pretty competitive lists, so don't let it get you down, go in and wallop him on the rematch! Also, borrow Gav's ork codex and get to know them.

Basic amendment.
Chaos Lord - Daemon Weapon
(to replace Typhus)
I have used this combo before & it did work well.
Also had the idea of, (for bigger games) sticking him in terminator Armour with the MoN to make him tougher.
(it's still cheaper than Typhus!)
Had the plan of making a suicide assault squad. Similar to the termicide squads.
The idea:-
Raptors X5 - Nurgle - Meltas X2 (170)
What is the general consensus on this?
I realize that for not that many extra points I could do the same with with Terminators. I'm just messing about.
I figured it could be fun deep striking a load of Melta's.
For the same points I could also make a squad that run up the board instead of DS.
Idea #2:-
Raptors X5
Champion - P.Weapon - Khorn - Flamers X2 (170)
Could be fun for a laugh. Also would fit in well with the Blitzkrieg style of war.

Firstly LOL. Secondly LOL. Thirdly here is a battle rep > http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/260662.page

IMO Lukey your list had too much high costing point stuff. The land raider was cack, I would drop it for another vindicator. The predators are really for anti tank, heavy bolters would be betters.

Typhus cost too much. And got it handed too him.

I would add more terminators with mark of nurgle. Slaanesh did nothing. You haven't got enoug raptors, they will get minced.