New Adeptus Astartes - Page #46 Chaplain and Libby

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**Timotheus**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Well, grav is 35 in the english one.

Just like german and spanish ones. Leaves the french out in the cold...

**Desubot**

Warhams-77 wrote:
The english book:

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/40496270/so-lets-give-this-another-go-heres-to-hoping-this

Well then....

LET THE LIST BUILDING BEGIN!

**Las**

They should be 35. 20 is waay too low.

**Chancetragedy**

Wow SM book has some seriously good rules haha.

**Largo39**

I sitll dont understand how OS works with a demi company.

is EVERYTHING in the demi-company OS? or just the things that were already OS (what i was reading it as), but troops being OS is only defined in a CAD i thought so they wouldnt necessarily be OS here would they?

ALso would a captain on a bike make the bike squad in that slot in a demi OS?

**tetrisphreak**

OS is normally only for a CAD. The Demi company (and battle company) are also OS. This means OS jump marines, dreads, dedicated transports, and even the captain/chapter master.

**spiralingcadaver**

Wow... vanguard vets are looking pretty spicy now.

**Requizen**

Raven Guard gets screwed over even harder. Observe:

1) Shrike has Infiltrate.
2) Shrike can only join Jump Infantry during deployment.
3) Per the Rules FAQ, an IC without Infiltrate cannot join a unit with Infiltrate, and vice versa.
4) Neither of the Jump Infantry units in the codex have Infiltrate

Conclusion: Shrike cannot join any unit during deployment.

Wow, good IC you have there.

**tetrisphreak**

Yes the rule should have been worded that shrikes squad gains infiltrate...house rules or useless captain.

**TheNewBlood**

tetrisphreak wrote:
OS is normally only for a CAD. The Demi company (and battle company) are also OS. This means OS jump marines, dreads, dedicated transports, and even the captain/chapter master.

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Objective Secured as defined in the BRB only applies to troops choices. The only additional units that Objective Secured confers upon are dedicated transports taken for troops choices.

Suddenly, all those free transports are looking mighty nice...

**Ansel Darach**

Just saw this on the LS Storm, Drop Pod goes where??

Jamming Beacon
"Enemies that scatter when Deep Striking within 12" of a model with this special rule roll double the number dice to determine the scatter distance."

**Requizen**

TheNewBlood wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
OS is normally only for a CAD. The Demi company (and battle company) are also OS. This means OS jump marines, dreads, dedicated transports, and even the captain/chapter master.

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Objective Secured as defined in the BRB only applies to troops choices. The only additional units that Objective Secured confers upon are dedicated transports taken for troops choices.

Suddenly, all those free transports are looking mighty nice...

That's not how it works. In a CAD, the benefit is just for Troops. It even says for troops. For the Demi-Company detachment, it's for everyone. Look:

**Slaanesh-Devotee**

Is there a convenient place to look at these leaks in one place instead of poring through page after page of threads?

**jSewell**

Says two demi-companies together form a battle company. Look forward to seeing how this is ruled since it could be argued as being a single formation from both the way it is worded and that it is inside a single detachment

(Since a lot of TOs don't allow duplicate formations within an army)

**RedFox**

wait so the techmarine is now 65 pts, but have MotF stats (was 90 pts) and got a free power axe but need to spend 25 pts for a servo-harness....

pretty good, I prefer this version, I'd run him cheap on a bike or inside a Raider with no upgrades

**tetrisphreak**

TheNewBlood wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
OS is normally only for a CAD. The Demi company (and battle company) are also OS. This means OS jump marines, dreads, dedicated transports, and even the captain/chapter master.

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Objective Secured as defined in the BRB only applies to troops choices. The only additional units that Objective Secured confers upon are dedicated transports taken for troops choices.

Suddenly, all those free transports are looking mighty nice...

No, you are wrong. CAD gives troops OS, but OS is not limited as a troops only rule. The Demi company grants OS to the entire formation. See also skyblight gargoyles - a fast attack choice that is granted OS by a formation.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jSewell wrote:
Says two demi-companies together form a battle company. Look forward to seeing how this is ruled since it could be argued as being a single formation from both the way it is worded and that it is inside a single detachment

(Since a lot of TOs don't allow duplicate formations within an army)

Inb4 ITC bans vindicator squadrons. S10 ap2 ignores cover 10" blast....

**buddha**

I'm liking the tactical doctrines a lot. The tac squad and dev squad one is scary good and makes them work like skitarii.

**Mulletdude**

These new space marine dreadnoughts are better than the Blood Angels ones in just about every way. The 100 pt dread has as many attacks as a death company dread, for 25 less pts. Not going to lie, I'm a bit salty.

**rollawaythestone**

Librarius Conclave - the nominated Librarian harnesses warp charge on 2+. Tigurius has a 2+ re-rollable psychic phase. Eat that, Eldar.

**Kanluwen**

rollawaythestone wrote:
Librarius Conclave - the nominated Librarian harnesses warp charge on 2+. Tigurius has a 2+ re-rollable psychic phase. Eat that, Eldar.

Does it allow Tigurius as an option when taking the formation?

If not--no, he doesn't.

**Hulksmash**

Yeah, it allows Tiggy. And 2 obsec demi-companies to form a single company is crazy good for missions objective missions. Sad thing is I think I have everything I'd want to use for that except for the Grav Devs....

**Chancetragedy**

It specifically calls him out as being allowed(possibly required?) eat your heart out Eldar ;p

**Requizen**

Kanluwen wrote:
rollawaythestone wrote:
Librarius Conclave - the nominated Librarian harnesses warp charge on 2+. Tigurius has a 2+ re-rollable psychic phase. Eat that, Eldar.

Does it allow Tigurius as an option when taking the formation?

If not--no, he doesn't.

It does. 3-5 Librarians, one may be Tigurius.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

How good are VV now?

**buddha**

I'm also liking the land raider formation for battle brothers like skitarii.

**spiralingcadaver**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
How good are VV now?

Power weapons and lightning claws are 5 is the big difference, and they get re-rolls to either/both charge dice.

**Requizen**

buddha wrote:
I'm also liking the land raider formation for battle brothers like skitarii.

It's expensive, but 3 LRs ignoring everything but Explodes single handedly makes Electro-Priests really, really good. And you could even throw in Ruststalkers in there.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

As a BA and former SW player, I'm kinda pissed...

**Hulksmash**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
As a BA and former SW player, I'm kinda pissed...

As a long time time Dark Angel player I'm laughing my hind end off at the BA and SW players

**Slayer-Fan123**

Talys wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
1. OR they could've fixed the core problem of those units. Just making vehicles free isn't fixing the problem when you want to do something like a CAD.
2. Except you completely miss the point about Eldar. Serpentspam isn't the issue. It's the level of balance. There's literally no point to any other troop choice than Scatterbikes. Admit it.
3. I shouldn't HAVE to ally with ANYTHING. Codices are supposed to be standalone forces. You're telling us that we need to buy other armies. That's not how it's supposed to work. Allies should compliment a force, not fix the glaring holes.
4. Nobody is asking for Marines to solo monstrous creatures. Quit the strawman and actually answer the complaints.

1. As I and other people have stated, this would not help the plight of the basic space marine. In 40k there are vehicles that can crush them, big weapons that can vaporize them, and creatures that dwarf space marines in every way and can just squish them. Space marines are better-than-basic infantry, and no infantry is meant to survive the large machines of war.

2. I would say that Windriders are the best troop choice, but not necessarily scatter lasers as their weapon. What has that got to do with anything? They still either have the choice to die or jink.. And anyways, Eldar are millions of years more advanced than humans, so they get some nice bikes. It's not like you can win with just the nice bikes. And they're still way weaker and harder to play than Wave Serpents, in skill-less noob spam armies.

3. Well, look. You're buying 1850 points. So it's not like it's costing you more. And I'm not saying that you CAN'T play space marines by themselves; I'm saying if SM were as powerful as Eldar by themselves, with battle brothers, they'd be an unstoppable force. Which would be terrible. It's your choice whether you want to ally or not -- it's a fact that allies make Space Marines and Eldar more powerful; avail yourself of the option or not. It's part of the game.

4. It's not a straw man argument at all. Half the game can destroy anything without the types of saves that are associated with monstrous creatures, characters with special stuff, or psychic abilities. Terminators have great armor. Even invulnerable saves! Guess what, they still crumple like paper. To "fix" space marines in the sense of making every one of the 1000 of the chapter heroic, you would literally need to make them so powerful that they'd cost a hundred points a model. And then since Aspect Warriors are even MORE powerful, those would cost like, two hundred points a model. And what would be the point? Because ultimately, a Titan or a fortification going kaboom, still should kill a Space Marine with no effort.

You know, kinda like Green Beret charges Abrams, Abrams rolls over Green Beret, movie ends. It doesn't matter how genetically enhanced and awesome the Green Beret is, he was never meant to go charge the tank. That's why he and his other 4 buddies have their own (smaller) tank! Which now, they don't have to pay separately for. Yay. Or you know, you can just say screw the elite forces, and take your own tank. Or 3, and then go kaboom and leave a big crater. Yay again!

Happy times.

1. They're outclassed by other infantry. Looking "elite" is not the same AS actually being elite. You have people that whine over ATSKNF and grenades, but the former doesn't get used because they die quickly and the latter never gets used because you'd have to be a REALLY bad player to have a Tactical Marine charge your Wave Serpent.

2. You actually aren't serious are you? Scatterbikes put out more shots than Wave Serpents for the points and still have a ridiculous range.

3. So you're admitting that the codices are just poorly written. If you absolutely have to ally in something because the core army you WANT to play is that weak, there's a glaring problem in the codex writing. Eldar and Necrons do not have this problem, and they're singular armies. Space Marines are a singular army and SHOULD be able to hold their own. Except they can't.

4. This isn't tanks we're dealing with. We're dealing with Necron Warriors and Scatterbikes.