Imperium of Man vs. Star Wars galactic Empire: Ground War only

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**nosferatu1001**

rowan - that is why good sensors are a must - and why the Kessel Run is measured in parsecs (its how close you can get to black holes and the like)

They do seem to be able to drop from lightspeed back into real space close to planets, unlike the Imperium, and there were no noted tales I have found of accidents at hyperdrive, apart from around massive real space phenomena like black holes where they were delibvertately flying closer than expected..

**Frazzled**

Omegus wrote:It would become a battle of logistics, in which the Empire is far superior. Significantly faster and far less risky travel, near instantaneous communication over massive distances, and their planet-destroying-level weapons are far more effective.

Failbaddon's Planet Killer took about 20 minutes to destroy it, the Death Star took about 10 seconds and most of that was "commencing primary ignition".

I'd posit thats a debatable statement.

-The GE has the ability to build moon sized ships. IoM not so much.
-Its noted on wookiepedia that droid production was in its quadrillions. While thats way out there its GW in its outlandishness. The latter Galactic Empire should be able to produce military product on a similar scale.

Now just to reinforce the IoM production capacity. Its noted that in Sabbat crusade (Sabbat crusade handbook) that the Imperium employed several (2 off the top of my head) billion troopers alone.

Having said that, although machiavellian, I've not seen evidence that the GE would just keep throwing scads of production at the same target. They don't seem to think WWI sneaky villian slogging it out, but more WWII moustache twirling sneaky villain. if they can't stomp out the IoM in some quick battles I'd proffer their style would be more of redeployment to attack a different region or try something else. I have no facts to support this other than GE bad guy villain always has new plans in proper "muahahah I'll get you next time my pretties!" style.

**TyraelVladinhurst**

lol, awesomeness sheer awesomeness. also (really trying not to get off topic but as someone brought it up) who ever said super star destoryers were limited was dead wrong, the empire produced at least 20 executor class super star destroyers the type vader used. but as was pointed out earlier this matters not, but it is funny that someone mentioned AT AT's being like chimera's as it is so true

**rowan341**

Apart from if you put a chain round a chimera it doesn't fall over and leave everyone inside dead or severely injured. Also I think they made the eyes a little bigger and the hello kitty sign a little smaller on that vader costume than on the original

**TyraelVladinhurst**

if i may point out a reaver stands at 26 meters while an at at stands at 22.5 meters and also has a transport capacity of 40 troops

**Frazzled**

Thats interesting. Titans (ok except imper ators) aren't much bigger. I wonder what GE mobile artillery would do (had during clone wars, assuming similar at the GE period).

**Samus_aran115**

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Samus_aran115 wrote:
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:To further flesh out my previous post, it would be a good idea to examine both armies elite units: Space Marines versus Phase III Dark Troopers, AT-ATs versus a similar-sized titan (I suggest Reaver-class) and so on.

We already discussed this. There were only a couple of those dark troopers made,so they don't qualify as anything impotant that the IoM would have to worry about.

A reaver titan is so much more agile and has two insanely powerful weapons attached to it. ANY of those weapons could easily punch through an AT-AT with a single shot (Multi-laser,meltacannon,gatlling blaster,powerfist).

No contest what-so ever.

ALSO: To the above poster: I'd give the AT-AT BS2, to be honest. The guns on its face barely pivot,and the storm troopers operating it are probably not the smartest cookies.

I'm aware of that, I was using the Dark Trooper as an example.

Ah,sorry then,mate!!

**TyraelVladinhurst**

warlords are 33 meters. also there was an artillery variant of the AT AT mounting heavy ion cannons. and yes the empire does still use those artillery pieces from the clone wars. they also have AT AR's equipped with a heavy blaster cannon

**Frazzled**

4.33 in - mobile artillery. Pretty tough.

**xiophen42**

from what Ive seen debated
space wize the lunar cruiser is the equivalent of an isd II in its durablity and firepower. 40 ranges are greater with faster slt.

the GE has so vastly superior ftl then anyone short of a non damaged webway or the necrons that its nto funny, they have simular size empire. ship numbers are either much lower or much higher depending the fluff you debate. and thier ability to produce more ships is vastly superior to the IOM

They would win war of attrition while tieing or losing the space battles.

On the ground its no contest the Iom or any 40k faction thrashes anything in SW. But when you lose the space fight your ground abilty means nothing.

**Klawz**

Storm Troopers =/= Clone Troopers.

cloning was outlawed by the GE.

**Asherian Command**

What. No. We have never seen a 40k space battle Described that well we can't make presumptions. Remember Presumptions start nerd wars!

**Grey Templar**

Warriors of Ultramar described a Space battle in pretty good detail.

Impierial navy vs Tyranids.

Thunderbolt fighters engagged the lead elements of the enemy fleet first.

at a range comparable to the distance from Earth to the moon the Nova cannons opened fire.

at a range of 5,000 kilometers Ship to Ship fighting began with ordinance and lance batteries.

**Asherian Command**

Yeah but thats the Smurfs. They don't count.

**Grey Templar**

it was the Impierial Navy, smurfs were waiting on the planet watching the show.

**Asherian Command**

Ah. Don't the Smurfs also have access to a Titan legion?
Not only that but the Air battles would be won because in order to land troops for the Empire they need to send down lots of transports. While the Space marines just send down drop pods. and not only that but titans just drop from the sky.

**Grey Templar**

Access to a Titan legion? don't know about that, but they do have the Ultramar defence force.

titans don't drop from the sky. the come down in freakin HUGE transporters the size of a hive spire.

**Asherian Command**

ah. That Explains it.

**IronfrontAlex**

focusedfire wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
i think the war would devolve into a war of attrition and that would be a war the IoM would win, eventually. they are in no rush, they have all eternity.

This is why I think the GE would win. The IoM still relies upon a naturally grown guardsmen wHile the IoM has a much more quickly replaced clones.

clones still take 9 years to grow to fighting age. the IoMs natural reproductive rate would far outstrip the abilities to clone troopers. even if the Empire had a Dozen worlds producing a Million clones annualy the IoM has a Million worlds that it can draw upon for manpower.

the IoM can raise a Million men in 2 months and it can do this for a practically unlimited amount of time. it takes the Empire 9 years to raise the equilivent amount of men.

also SMs would conduct raids on any cloning worlds rather quickly. since the Empire couldn't detect the IoM ships when they are in Warp space they would have no warning and the SMs could be on the ground within 18 minutes of attaining orbit.

**Havoc13**

clones still take 9 years to grow to fighting age. the IoMs natural reproductive rate would far outstrip the abilities to clone troopers. even if the Empire had a Dozen worlds producing a Million clones annualy the IoM has a Million worlds that it can draw upon for manpower.

Incorrect: Only the first few batches of clones from Kamino took that long, once the spaarta cylinders were fully operational it became less then a year. Then one year flash training... You now have MILLIONS of fresh clones on the battlefield, So much the the IoM numerical superiority.

And since the IoM fanbois are taking fluff from all time periods. It is only fair to take from all time periods as well. Can you say Sith wars, pre Darth Bane, Exar Kun, Mandolorian wars, Reven, Malek. Centerpoint Station, Suncrusher, among MANY others... the IoM would be toast so quickly.

Hell give a Sith lord the Suncrusher, a ship that is impervious to ALL energy weapons (so much for your lances) and way to small (little larger then a bomber) to target with a missile, Oh look one shot... the Sol system is now burning gas from a supernova. Chicken-fired Emperor+High lords of Terra = Dead IoM.

**IronfrontAlex**

Forgot to make a few more points.
Force Users can also: Control the enviorment, disable electronics, create force armor and shields, force crush, thought bomb, force storm... which is essentially a warp storm, bye bye imperial navy.. force crush, force blast ect.

and everyone brings up titans, every large imperial mech has shields but here are some large scale armor they got.

Planet defender Ion Cannon
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/V-150_Planet_Defender

ATAHT
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armored_Heavy_Transport

Heavy assault vehicle
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Assault_Vehicle/wheeled_A6_Juggernaut

And this would deff be a titan cracker!
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Self-Propelled_Heavy_Artillery

**Havoc13**

IronfrontAlex wrote:Forgot to make a few more points.
Force Users can also: Control the enviorment, disable electronics, create force armor and shields, force crush, thought bomb, force storm... which is essentially a warp storm, bye bye imperial navy.. force crush, force blast ect.

and everyone brings up titans, every large imperial mech has shields but here are some large scale armor they got.

Planet defender Ion Cannon
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/V-150_Planet_Defender

ATAHT
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armored_Heavy_Transport

Heavy assault vehicle
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Assault_Vehicle/wheeled_A6_Juggernaut

And this would deff be a titan cracker!
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Self-Propelled_Heavy_Artillery

Hush You!

**IronfrontAlex**

... Why? and is this strictly GE or is the sith empire included? the IOM would also need to realize that GE tech is far more advanced and yet a force sensitive indavideual with a wolter would wreak much more hacok, in the star wars expanded universe there are force users that shoot actual and literal firearms similar to a sniper rifle or an autogun and yet they c an take out large targets with them why? because these force users move the bullets into position via the force...

**Klawz**

When did IoM bring up stuff from all IoM vs. GE only, no Sith Empire, or New/Old Republics. Also, clones are outlawed.

**IronfrontAlex**

Klawz wrote:When did IoM bring up stuff from all IoM vs. GE only, no Sith Empire, or New/Old Republics. Also, clones are outlawed.

Good to know since i havent added any yet!

**Havoc13**

Klawz wrote:When did IoM bring up stuff from all IoM vs. GE only, no Sith Empire, or New/Old Republics. Also, clones are outlawed.

READ the entire thread... you will see for yourself.
I do not have the time or inclination to do your research for you.

**Klawz**

Havoc13 wrote:
Klawz wrote:When did IoM bring up stuff from all IoM vs. GE only, no Sith Empire, or New/Old Republics. Also, clones are outlawed.

READ the entire thread... you will see for yourself.
I do not have the time or inclination to do your research for you.

wookiepedia wrote:This uprising provoked Palpatine, who had now made himself Emperor, to decide that an army of genetically identical clones presented too many possibilities of turning against him, just as they had done to the Jedi. Thus, it was through this radical reform that the Fett clones would gradually become overshadowed under a pool of clones from different genetic templates and many more birth-born recruits. Although the Jango Fett template would still certainly be used to produce more clone stormtroopers, the Fett clones would rapidly become lost under the number of recruits, conscripts, and different genetic template-based clones. For all of their loyalty to the Republic/Empire and their unrivaled fighting skills, the Fett clones were "rewarded with the chance" to fight alongside "inferior" and far less skilled soldiers. None of the Fett clones, especially those belonging to the "Fett-pure" 501st would ever truly grow used to fighting alongside the non-Fett stormtroopers that they dubbed as the "new guys".

So I was mistaken, apolgies. But you can't say That you could produce the massive number of clones you have discussed. And I have been READING the entire thread. I don't understand your point.

**rowan341**

And since the IoM fanbois are taking fluff from all time periods. It is only fair to take from all time periods as well. Can you say Sith wars, pre Darth Bane, Exar Kun, Mandolorian wars, Reven, Malek. Centerpoint Station, Suncrusher, among MANY others... the IoM would be toast so quickly.

As far as I can tell nobody has mentioned that or it would have become empire vs pre heresy marine legions with primarchs and so on. From what I can see that hasn't happened so I am afraid I will have to disagree with you there.

And this would deff be a titan cracker!

only one major flaw that I can see. It seems pretty good at tracking things going upward and looks like it has a lot of firepower but doesn't look like it'd be very good at turning which would definitely be a problem when dealing with titans.

**IronfrontAlex**

rowan341 wrote:
And since the IoM fanbois are taking fluff from all time periods. It is only fair to take from all time periods as well. Can you say Sith wars, pre Darth Bane, Exar Kun, Mandolorian wars, Reven, Malek. Centerpoint Station, Suncrusher, among MANY others... the IoM would be toast so quickly.

As far as I can tell nobody has mentioned that or it would have become empire vs pre heresy marine legions with primarchs and so on. From what I can see that hasn't happened so I am afraid I will have to disagree with you there.

And this would deff be a titan cracker!

only one major flaw that I can see. It seems pretty good at tracking things going upward and looks like it has a lot of firepower but doesn't look like it'd be very good at turning which would definitely be a problem when dealing with titans.

it's a MOBILE platform; it pivots.

**Frazzled**

IronfrontAlex wrote:
rowan341 wrote:
And since the IoM fanbois are taking fluff from all time periods. It is only fair to take from all time periods as well. Can you say Sith wars, pre Darth Bane, Exar Kun, Mandolorian wars, Reven, Malek. Centerpoint Station, Suncrusher, among MANY others... the IoM would be toast so quickly.

As far as I can tell nobody has mentioned that or it would have become empire vs pre heresy marine legions with primarchs and so on. From what I can see that hasn't happened so I am afraid I will have to disagree with you there.

And this would deff be a titan cracker!

only one major flaw that I can see. It seems pretty good at tracking things going upward and looks like it has a lot of firepower but doesn't look like it'd be very good at turning which would definitely be a problem when dealing with titans.

it's a MOBILE platform; it pivots.

Plus titans, outstide of warhounds, are relatively slow.