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lord commissar klimino wrote:we talked about this kinda earlier. if the soldier has family nearby when the zombies come,most likely they will leave to go help them so the base will be less defended. just wait. as they send party's out to find food,watch as they loose men or help them loose men. after awhile you will have enough stuff to were you dont need to raid it,or it will be weak enough to.

There are a plethora of situations that could occur where the military is concerned.
I would speculate that armed forces would see it's share of desertion ( for whatever reasons), along with some " field court martial "activity , plus a fairly high loss ratio due to sustained contact (since it will be the military's "job" to engage zombie targets).
However, I firmly believe things will have to be very bad ( game over/ head for the hills bad) before you see military bases emptied, and at that point most of the supplies there would most likely be exuahsted or taken with the remaining forces...
IMO, it would make more sense to let the military handle their business while you concentrate on the matter of aquiring what you need else where...no need to engage in fire fights/ play king of the hill, with a well armed group who are also fighting against zombies...

The air base near my town is pratically a city, a walled in city. with fighter jets and trained personell whos(the majority at least) families live on said base. I dont think thats going anywhere during a zombie apocolypse.

Skycrawler wrote:The air base near my town is pratically a city, a walled in city. with fighter jets and trained personell whos(the majority at least) families live on said base. I dont think thats going anywhere during a zombie apocolypse.

Exactly, when I was in Biloxi ,MS. I was near, and visited friends on Keasler AFB, that place was like a mini city with walls around it, very well stocked, various grocers/ stores, well protected...if secured from outside threat ( which would be a simple matter) and barring internal contamination, I would imagine that place could hold out for some considerable time...
Attacking it with a few dozen men with shotguns and "assault weapons" would be suicide...better to either attempt to join or avoid all together.

Regards bunkers/houses, I would have to go with something a bit hybrid in design, to make it suitable for as many different disasters as possible.

For nuclear "accidents" and so on you want the main body of the house protected by reasonably thick earth walls, meaning a submerged, semi-submerged or covered building to limit your radiation exposure in case you are unable to reach your "main" shelter in time and are caught in the house.

In terms of zombie/survivors/etc, you would probably want the covered building for several reasons - the above ground entrance(s) make it harder for zombies to accidentally wander into your shelter, or to blockade the entrance/exit. The thick walls and raised entrances also help to protect your upper shelter from raiders/etc and the upper shelter may also distract them and serves as cover for your "main" shelter.

Within the upper shelter you want a hidden access main shelter, preferably inside another hidden area (for example, the maintenance area for the house is hidden behind the inner walls, and within that maintenance area is the hidden shelter access). This helps to limit the chance of raiders/etc finding you in the case that they enter your upper shelter, also gives you an added layer of protection against "wandering monsters"

The inner shelter should be dug under the main house and have all the features mentioned over the previous pages and should, if possible, be linked to solar, wind and geothermal power generators, as well as at least one alternate entrance to enable escape/hidden entry if the main house is swarmed or has raiders sheltering in it.

A series of fibreoptic cameras would also allow you to see what is going on on the outside/upper shelter/etc without using power as well as being extremely discrete.

Solar tubes can also carry sunlight from the roof of the upper shelter to the under-shelter.

CptJake wrote:Actually, having helped plan, write and execute base defense plans during riots in Panama, and emergency plans for things like huricanes and earthquakes, I am willing to bet my version is closer than yours.

ok,when the Apocalypse happens,if your right you get 100,000 dollars,if i am i get 100,000. agreed?

lord commissar klimino wrote:

CptJake wrote:Actually, having helped plan, write and execute base defense plans during riots in Panama, and emergency plans for things like huricanes and earthquakes, I am willing to bet my version is closer than yours.

ok,when the Apocalypse happens,if your right you get 100,000 dollars,if i am i get 100,000. agreed?

... ... ...What value ( other than toilet paper) is money going to have in a world over run by walking corpses.?
The very idea of goods/services exchanged for paper depicting the images of dead men will be long gone...

FITZZ wrote:... ... ...What value ( other than toilet paper) is money going to have in a world over run by walking corpses.?
The very idea of goods/services exchanged for paper depicting the images of dead men will be long gone...

That's the point... you can't lose

Screw that, I'm collecting in bottled water, .308 and 5.56 rounds, and AA batteries.

CptJake wrote:Screw that, I'm collecting in bottled water, .308 and 5.56 rounds, and AA batteries.

Ammo/water/ batteries /food and technical/medical know how will be the new coin of the realm...

...Along with alcohol and other items/services better left unmentioned.

yup.silly got it right. i aint giving you nothing. unless its trade...

"hey you,got any 12 gauges round your not using?"
"yeah,you got a gun to use them with?"
"of course."
"i need revolver rounds."
"what type."
"all you have."
"thats not a fair t-"*shoots dude.*
"thanks for the supplies."

totally how id do that

That's okay. I'm sure the troopers at the base you try to loot will split up anything of value you had.

CptJake wrote:That's okay. I'm sure the troopers at the base you try to loot will split up anything of value you had.

like i said,i wont raid a base until its weak. or ill kill them from the shadows when they exit there lil base

Yeah, I'd have to say that unless your dealing with the woefully ignorant and unprepared, there's a high probability you'll end up with a bullet in your head Commissar.

FITZZ wrote: Yeah, I'd have to say that unless your dealing with the woefully ignorant and unprepared, there's a high probability you'll end up with a bullet in your head Commissar.

yeah cause they will be expecting an 16 year old to be following them and then unload on them. if i kill even one ill run off and hide,wait for them to leave,and come back for the loot

never underestimate me! ill come up with random crap to use against you all day if i want plus i wont be alone so my chances just increase

I'd quite enjoy seeing 16 year olds try to take on trained soldiers

lord commissar klimino wrote:

CptJake wrote:That's okay. I'm sure the troopers at the base you try to loot will split up anything of value you had.

like i said,i wont raid a base until its weak. or ill kill them from the shadows when they exit there lil base

So in order to obtain ammo for 'free'....you'll hide outside the protective wall....in a Zombie wasteland.....

I think I spot a flaw....

lord commissar klimino wrote:

FITZZ wrote: Yeah, I'd have to say that unless your dealing with the woefully ignorant and unprepared, there's a high probability you'll end up with a bullet in your head Commissar.

yeah cause they will be expecting an 16 year old to be following them and then unload on them. if i kill even one ill run off and hide,wait for them to leave,and come back for the loot

never underestimate me! ill come up with random crap to use against you all day if i want plus i wont be alone so my chances just increase

No...what I'm saying is...
A) in your example of bartering and shooting the one involved, anyone in that situation will know enough to keep all parties involved covered until exchanges are complette...one person starts shooting...instant blood bath.
B) Ambushing a supplied and trained Military convoy/ patrol is going to result in you/your group getting hosed with SAW and Heavy Weapons fire...

SilverMK2 wrote:I'd quite enjoy seeing 16 year olds try to take on trained soldiers

stranger thing have happened

Mr Mystery wrote:

lord commissar klimino wrote:

CptJake wrote:That's okay. I'm sure the troopers at the base you try to loot will split up anything of value you had.

like i said,i wont raid a base until its weak. or ill kill them from the shadows when they exit there lil base

So in order to obtain ammo for 'free'....you'll hide outside the protective wall....in a Zombie wasteland.....

I think I spot a flaw....

we would be on roofs,2nd floors,you know. zombies cant get everywhere.

Hosed with SAW?

You mean he'll be pelted with a film series which heartedly proves the law of diminshing returns?

That seems a little excessive. I'd rather be shot in the pills.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You haven't seen many Zombie films then have you? I've seen them pop out of cupboards!

SilverMK2 wrote:I'd quite enjoy seeing 16 year olds try to take on trained soldiers

Already did it once....Killed him in 20 sec after the wissle....He wasn't amused...

(in paintball that is)

SilverMK2 wrote:I'd quite enjoy seeing 16 year olds try to take on trained soldiers

Well...it's not that it couldn't be done, history is filled with examples of teenaged Guriela fighters..
It's just that his tactics are highly flawed and not needed to begin with...it's an expenditure of effort that would result in heavy losses with little gain.

FITZZ wrote:

lord commissar klimino wrote:

FITZZ wrote: Yeah, I'd have to say that unless your dealing with the woefully ignorant and unprepared, there's a high probability you'll end up with a bullet in your head Commissar.

yeah cause they will be expecting an 16 year old to be following them and then unload on them. if i kill even one ill run off and hide,wait for them to leave,and come back for the loot

never underestimate me! ill come up with random crap to use against you all day if i want plus i wont be alone so my chances just increase

No...what I'm saying is...
A) in your example of bartering and shooting the one involved, anyone in that situation will know enough to keep all parties involved covered until exchanges are complette...one person starts shooting...instant blood bath.
B) Ambushing a supplied and trained Military convoy/ patrol is going to result in you/your group getting hosed with SAW and Heavy Weapons fire...

for all you know its just between us 2 in trading. plus it was a joke on the trading thing. most guys wont even trade,just take.

blam,one dead from snipers. run away. come back a few hours later if its safe after watching the area for an hour or so.aka,dont give them the chance to aim and shoot you.be gone after your fire weither you killed or not.

FITZZ wrote:Well...it's not that it couldn't be done, history is filled with examples of teenaged Guriela fighters..
It's just that his tactics are highly flawed and not needed to begin with...it's an expenditure of effort that would result in heavy losses with little gain.

Sure, child soldiers and "underdogs" have managed to pull off wins, but it was more your second point which I refer to - there are many, many suburbanite armchair teen warriors out there and I would love to see them schooled

I know I would stand little to no chance against soldiers (or many others) which is why I would attempt to hide or join up with others who I could help and receive aid and protection from in return.

SilverMK2 wrote:

FITZZ wrote:Well...it's not that it couldn't be done, history is filled with examples of teenaged Guriela fighters..
It's just that his tactics are highly flawed and not needed to begin with...it's an expenditure of effort that would result in heavy losses with little gain.

Sure, child soldiers and "underdogs" have managed to pull off wins, but it was more your second point which I refer to - there are many, many suburbanite armchair teen warriors out there and I would love to see them schooled

I know I would stand little to no chance against soldiers (or many others) which is why I would attempt to hide or join up with others who I could help and receive aid and protection from in return.

I agree with your " teen warrior" observation Silver, when real rounds start hitting them it will be a surprise that they can't hit "restart" like in the
games they play.

I also agree that joining with those who would better your chances at survival is a far better tactic then attempting to get into a pissing contest with other survivors, military or otherwise.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

lord commissar klimino wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

lord commissar klimino wrote:

FITZZ wrote: Yeah, I'd have to say that unless your dealing with the woefully ignorant and unprepared, there's a high probability you'll end up with a bullet in your head Commissar.

yeah cause they will be expecting an 16 year old to be following them and then unload on them. if i kill even one ill run off and hide,wait for them to leave,and come back for the loot

never underestimate me! ill come up with random crap to use against you all day if i want plus i wont be alone so my chances just increase

No...what I'm saying is...
A) in your example of bartering and shooting the one involved, anyone in that situation will know enough to keep all parties involved covered until exchanges are complette...one person starts shooting...instant blood bath.
B) Ambushing a supplied and trained Military convoy/ patrol is going to result in you/your group getting hosed with SAW and Heavy Weapons fire...

for all you know its just between us 2 in trading. plus it was a joke on the trading thing. most guys wont even trade,just take.

blam,one dead from snipers. run away. come back a few hours later if its safe after watching the area for an hour or so.aka,dont give them the chance to aim and shoot you.be gone after your fire weither you killed or not.

Well, of course it's speculative as to "who is trading", for all you know..the guy your trading with has a sniper possitioned with his cross hairs on your head...but yeah, I get that your joking.
I suppose there would be those who " just take"...but..in the larger scheme of things I suspect barter/ trade to be more widely used.

And...even if your sniper shot efectively dropped a soldier..and you managed to escape/ avoid being hit by return fire...it's not like his buddies are going to just leave him laying around for you to come back and loot his equipment.

I also agree that joining with those who would better your chances at survival is a far better tactic then attempting to get into a pissing contest with other survivors, military or otherwise.

That is probably one of my weaknesses in the scenario. I have a tendency to want to train and help/protect others. Being military and a father tends to bring out the sheep dog. Having said that, as a sheep dog, woe to the wolves that attack my flock. I do know how to put them down, and won't hesitate or play fair in the process.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

And...even if your sniper shot efectively dropped a soldier..and you managed to escape/ avoid being hit by return fire...it's not like his buddies are going to just leave him laying around for you to come back and loot his equipment.

Heh. Seeing as how we bait now when hunting crap bags, when our homes and families are on the line, getting FAR away from the trained armed pissed off dudes may be better than coming back to loot the bodies (even of your capped buddies).

CptJake wrote:

I also agree that joining with those who would better your chances at survival is a far better tactic then attempting to get into a pissing contest with other survivors, military or otherwise.

That is probably one of my weaknesses in the scenario. I have a tendency to want to train and help/protect others. Being military and a father tends to bring out the sheep dog. Having said that, as a sheep dog, woe to the wolves that attack my flock. I do know how to put them down, and won't hesitate or play fair in the process.

I see you'd be a good man to have around in this scenario Jake...

FITZZ wrote:

CptJake wrote:

I also agree that joining with those who would better your chances at survival is a far better tactic then attempting to get into a pissing contest with other survivors, military or otherwise.

That is probably one of my weaknesses in the scenario. I have a tendency to want to train and help/protect others. Being military and a father tends to bring out the sheep dog. Having said that, as a sheep dog, woe to the wolves that attack my flock. I do know how to put them down, and won't hesitate or play fair in the process.

I see you'd be a good man to have around in this scenario Jake...

...So that he would sacrifice himself to save your life...

I know how you think Fitzz

PS: Hope your sniper is REAL good, and fast:

http://boomerang.bbn.com/docs/jane_june2009.pdf

'Cause recent wars have lead to us using some interesting tech...

Jake

sillyboy wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

CptJake wrote:

I also agree that joining with those who would better your chances at survival is a far better tactic then attempting to get into a pissing contest with other survivors, military or otherwise.

That is probably one of my weaknesses in the scenario. I have a tendency to want to train and help/protect others. Being military and a father tends to bring out the sheep dog. Having said that, as a sheep dog, woe to the wolves that attack my flock. I do know how to put them down, and won't hesitate or play fair in the process.

I see you'd be a good man to have around in this scenario Jake...

...So that he would sacrifice himself to save your life...

I know how you think Fitzz

Absolutely not...

I understand what Jake is saying, especially as a Father myself...protecting my family and any with me would be of the utmost importance...any who would attempt to endanger those with me would be neutralized with extreame prejudice.

CptJake wrote:PS: Hope your sniper is REAL good, and fast:

http://boomerang.bbn.com/docs/jane_june2009.pdf

'Cause recent wars have lead to us using some interesting tech...

Jake

Sound triangulation is very useful


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FITZZ wrote:I understand what Jake is saying, especially as a Father myself...protecting my family and any with me would be of the utmost importance...any who would attempt to endanger those with me would be neutralized with extreame prejudice.

Just a shame we are on the other side of a giant ocean, as I would very much to be with guys such as yourselves during the zombie uprising

While not particularly skilled I am a quick and willing learner and would do as much as I could for the group... so long as you helped me look after the wife anyway