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I read a Book by Heinlen once(a few times actually) - called 'Starship Troopers'. He wrote the book before GW was even a company. If you ever get bored of the Horus Heresy - this is a great read for SPACE MARINE fans.

GW's IP credibility = zero for me.

As for being selective about thier targets - I agree completely.

As for the delay of GW releases due to some legal wrangling with a small company making addon pieces - I disagree. As if a Multi Million dollar company is going to 'hold back' due to a dispute with a garage sized company - IN MY OPINION.
I read the thread from beginning to end, including MOD edits and all(Nerdrage much- WTF?), and it seems the only people who REALLY know what is going on is Chapterhouse, and GW's Legal team.

Anything else is pure speculation and as praisworthy/believable/disputable as anything else written on a toilet wall, or Interwebs forum.

On a personal note - I think CH's basic flaunting of GW products on thier webpage sounds like this to me - The small man standing on the shoulders of a Giant and screaming "Take me seriously - I'm tall!" syndrome to an extreme.

Chimaera wrote:

Totally take your point on the fantasy stuff but are you honestly telling me if you mixed a 40K Space Marine in with 20 other sci-fi Marine miniatures out there it wouldn't be distinctive. The same goes for a lot of the other 40K armies. Can anyone show me miniatures from another game that look quite same as 40K ones do and were produced before 40K? Maybe they are out there but I am not aware of them.

Soldiers in power armor and guns in the future is NOT exactly original. Both starwars stormtroopers and Heinlein's starship troopers predate space marines by decade or three respectively. Tyranids, especially when you look at the early ones, are a take on aliens- both 3rd ed HT looks like the hive queen and 2nd ed hormagunts- the heads especially were dead ringers for aliens. Balck templars are.....historic templars in space, even down to some symbols. The list goes on....much of GW's concepts were already out there, even the Horus Heresy isnt orginal in its basic concept.

You stuck on minitures, but not on the basic concepts if you look hard enough.

carmachu wrote:

Chimaera wrote:

Totally take your point on the fantasy stuff but are you honestly telling me if you mixed a 40K Space Marine in with 20 other sci-fi Marine miniatures out there it wouldn't be distinctive. The same goes for a lot of the other 40K armies. Can anyone show me miniatures from another game that look quite same as 40K ones do and were produced before 40K? Maybe they are out there but I am not aware of them.

Soldiers in power armor and guns in the future is NOT exactly original. Both starwars stormtroopers and Heinlein's starship troopers predate space marines by decade or three respectively. Tyranids, especially when you look at the early ones, are a take on aliens- both 3rd ed HT looks like the hive queen and 2nd ed hormagunts- the heads especially were dead ringers for aliens. Balck templars are.....historic templars in space, even down to some symbols. The list goes on....much of GW's concepts were already out there, even the Horus Heresy isnt orginal in its basic concept.

You stuck on minitures, but not on the basic concepts if you look hard enough.

Maybe so but the various takes on Troopers in power armour are completely different as well as the biology of the Marines that go in them. Visually the expression of a Stormtrooper or Heinlein's Starship Trooper is nothing like a 40K SM.

Most sci-fi books folllow the same basic of good vs evil plot it's just how they are represented that makes the difference. I would imagine Heinlein drew his inspiration for SST from somewhere also. The difference being he put his own unique original spin on it. I suppose you could also argue that all books drew inspiration from the Bible over a timeline and evolved into the various plots as civilisation grew and cultures/technology evolved.

Would a 40K SM made sense in Star Wars, would I have taken to them so much in the films. I don't think so. The Stormtroopers were visually ideal for the Star Wars films and totally in keeping and credible to that universe. They look nothing like a 40K SM and thats how I like them.

I am not against companies drawing inspriration from history, yesteryear books, expired product or the real world to create a unique product. I do find it a bit rich when you directly ride on the back of someone elses current product and this why I quoted the minis. Fundmentally minis/product is what the lawsuit is about as it's not like CHS are writing creative literature or doing anything else to expand on the 40K universe.

I understand where you coming from around basic concepts but I do not think this is the true crux of GW's lawsuit/argument.

Chimaera wrote:
No I don't. Who has called GW out legally for riding on the back of their product/efforts?

I believe Michael Moorcock considered suing on the 8 pointed star but decided that it wasn't worth the aggro.

Chimaera wrote:Can you show me positively where GW have stolen someones creative work in miniature form, completely ripped off a current concept/product or ridden on the back of someone elses efforts in the current market place? Like I said surely they would have been pulled up by now.

I knew someone would quote Aliens. Actually the only models that resemble Aliens out of the Tyranids are the Genestealers. If Geiger felt GW had ripped his concept so badly I am sure the means were there for a legal challenge. Maybe Geiger didn't see GW as a threat to his business at the time? It's not like GW built the company on the back of Aliens. Can you give me examples of where GW are riding on the back of going concerns of other miniature companies?

Where they aren't the same is that GW exists without Chapterhouse. Chapterhouse only exists because of GW.

Sorry I cut out some parts of your post because I want to concentrate on the ones above. GW was/is Citadel Minatures, who traded off of other peoples IP in that they produced and marketed 'lead' figures for use with DnD, RuneQuest etc. Now they weren't sued, as far as I know, because the companies involved did not produce those minatures and saw it as a net benefit to them.

Aliens. The rumour mill has it that GW received a C&D letter over one of their figure lines, now I can't substantiate that, but I believe that it was in relation to them getting too close to a certain movie franchise. ANyone else help me on that?

Turn back time 20 years and the following statement is true;

The RPG market exists without GW/Citadel. GW/Citadel only exists because of RPGs.

Give CHS 20 years, you never know what they might become.

Cheers

Andrew

Chimaera wrote:Can you show me positively where GW have stolen someones creative work in miniature form, completely ripped off a current concept/product or ridden on the back of someone elses efforts in the current market place? Like I said surely they would have been pulled up by now.

Always difficult to influence the good common sence of a lynch mob, but as you asked:

1.) They got a C&D by Battletech in the late 80s ( http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315559 esp. EldarWolf)

2.) They couldn't release these tomb king models, being a too close rip off from the movie. http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Tomb_Kings_-_Unreleased

3.) They probably received a C&D for the Diaz daemonettes, that disappeared from the stores without a warning.

4.) Rumours of a C&D for their Car Wars clone, not confirmed.

5.) Michael Moorcocks Chaos Star that GW claims the copyright of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol_of_Chaos

6.) Roger Dean pic from 70s, ( http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=70190 )



plus



7.) http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/386075.page

8.) http://web.archive.org/web/20071125132841/http://ca.geocities.com/crazy40kguy/namesandhomages.html

Biggest issue wiuth them is that they spout off the compnay line about "IP IP IP," when they literally built the company on Sci Fi standard fare.

We could literally pick each and every one of thier figures apart and find where they ALL came from.

RAMBO, The Dirty Dozen, ZULU, Aliens, Thier regiments are homage to whatever your fancy is. It's not nessesarily a bad thing, seeing as they abdicated themselves from the conversation with WYSIWYG rules, not supporting whole lines, putting out garbage miniatures, and claiming that they are top drawer, and even the point of them literally ignoring other whole ranges for years leaves it open on how far someone wants to go with it.

Positively, GW has been doing it since it's inception, they made no bones about it, until people started cranking out better product then they themselves did.

Want a positive? GW stole the idea for a shampoo bottle.... ( And made it into a tank.) LOL

They also stole my time. LMAO damn, dirty, stealing, stealers.

Also, I've always had a suspicion that the biological aspects of the Tau are more than a slight homage to Blizzard's Protoss - noseless, blue-skinned, four-fingered, hoofed aliens (the Protoss even have naturally swept-back head crests which could have evolved into the Tau's helmet design). An interesting circle considering the Blizzard/GW rumors.

The truth is, GW hasn't been sued because there is very little about their designs that are not very generic, or logical extensions of existing works, or even just covered by plain inspiration.
I believe that the sole reason GW were able to even begin a lawsuit against CHS was that CHS were about to release a full model of the Doom of Malantai, named as such, and that could potentially have caused problems for GW. Add-on parts to any number of products are legal, and sold every single day for cars, iPods, etc.

I hope one outcome of this cases is that CHS are found not guilty of trademark infringement (by way of fair use), and so companies like Scibor can rename all their 'galactic knights' to something more appropriate.

Aside from proving that the creators of Warhammer are also nerds that didn't live under a rock their whole lives I'm not sure what the parade of pop-culture above is meant to be demonstrating.
I'm not being deliberately obtuse, I know you're saying "GW are saying people are thieves, but THEY are also thieves!". I'm just not seeing any similarities between the two situations.

To me it's the difference between a concept artist designing a spaceship for a movie and drawing on ocean liners or WW1 planes for inspiration and a concept artist designing a spaceship for a movie and just redrawing a star destroyer.

Looking at that photo of the Stormtrooper made me realize how similar the Heresy pattern power armours helmet is.

No, there is no hypocracy in issuing C&D's like confetti whilst blantantly plagarising all and sundry.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:No, there is no hypocracy in issuing C&D's like confetti whilst blantantly plagarising all and sundry.

Useful commentary, thanks.
So you can only claim, and therefore protect, your own IP if it's entirely unique and in no way related to anything that has ever existed?

plastictrees -Useful commentary, thanks.
So you can only claim, and therefore protect, your own IP if it's entirely unique and in no way related to anything that has ever existed?

OTT - but pretty much, yeah. AFAIK.

carmachu wrote:

Chimaera wrote:

Totally take your point on the fantasy stuff but are you honestly telling me if you mixed a 40K Space Marine in with 20 other sci-fi Marine miniatures out there it wouldn't be distinctive. The same goes for a lot of the other 40K armies. Can anyone show me miniatures from another game that look quite same as 40K ones do and were produced before 40K? Maybe they are out there but I am not aware of them.

Soldiers in power armor and guns in the future is NOT exactly original. Both starwars stormtroopers and Heinlein's starship troopers predate space marines by decade or three respectively.

You stuck on minitures, but not on the basic concepts if you look hard enough.

This line about "Heinlein's starship troopers predate space marines by three decades respectively".

Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" and its concept of 'Space Marines' was predated by the "Lensman" series by Edward Elmer Smith(With the "Galactic Marines" appearing in 1937) and even he was beaten to the punch by Bob Olsen who wrote two short stories called "Captain Brink of the Space Marine"(1932) and "The Space Marines and the Slavers" (1936).

If you're going to say that Heinlein "defined the concept" of soldiers in power armor with guns though, it's a far more accurate statement.

I wouldn't consider Star Wars' Stormtroopers to be an example of the "Space Marine" concept though. They're not wearing power armor, and they're not Marines. The Empire actually has Marines, and they wear something totally different.

Furthermore, it's also worth noting that the Mobile Infantry that Heinlein described wore what would be considered 'battle suits' and not 'powered armor'.

...Don't look at me like that. I can let the nerd flag fly here on Dakka, curse you!

Kanluwen wrote:
...Don't look at me like that. I can let the nerd flag fly here on Dakka, curse you!

Dude, you just out-nerded everyone in this thread in the history of EVAR.

And for that, I salute you.

plastictrees wrote:Aside from proving that the creators of Warhammer are also nerds that didn't live under a rock their whole lives I'm not sure what the parade of pop-culture above is meant to be demonstrating.
I'm not being deliberately obtuse, I know you're saying "GW are saying people are thieves, but THEY are also thieves!". I'm just not seeing any similarities between the two situations.

To me it's the difference between a concept artist designing a spaceship for a movie and drawing on ocean liners or WW1 planes for inspiration and a concept artist designing a spaceship for a movie and just redrawing a star destroyer.

The same could be said of CH designers. They even said as much, though not word for word obviously, in court by not contesting access to GW products. Change everything in your post to CH related items and *gasp* it means the same thing and has just as much merit.

This will turn into another circular discussion on derivative works and their legality (though even a well-read layman can say that they generally are legal).

Anywho.

agnosto wrote:

This will turn into another circular discussion on derivative works and their legality (though even a well-read layman can say that they generally are legal).

Indeed. It's gotten so bad, sometimes I'm confused about whether I'm reading Dakka Discussions or Seibertron.com's 3rd Party and KO Forum.

agnosto wrote:

plastictrees wrote:Aside from proving that the creators of Warhammer are also nerds that didn't live under a rock their whole lives I'm not sure what the parade of pop-culture above is meant to be demonstrating.
I'm not being deliberately obtuse, I know you're saying "GW are saying people are thieves, but THEY are also thieves!". I'm just not seeing any similarities between the two situations.

To me it's the difference between a concept artist designing a spaceship for a movie and drawing on ocean liners or WW1 planes for inspiration and a concept artist designing a spaceship for a movie and just redrawing a star destroyer.

The same could be said of CH designers. They even said as much, though not word for word obviously, in court by not contesting access to GW products. Change everything in your post to CH related items and *gasp* it means the same thing and has just as much merit.

How could the same be said of CH designers? Change what in my post to CH related items? I mention one imaginary scenario and no GW or CH items whatsoever. Really, explain what you're talking about. How is drawing inspiration from movies, books etc. the same as reproducing imagery used by another miniature company to be used in the game that miniature company produces? I'm not even making a moral judgement here, I'm just saying the "GW is not the originalz!" scenario that everyone always trots out is not the same thing at all.

Am I crazy in thinking that maybe GW is just holding back a Tyranid second release because they are having trouble designing a 2 part kit with Tyrannofex and Tervigon? And/Or that they are waiting for the sculptors to knock out all of the special characters and other options that they neglected in the first release?

I look at the dark eldar release and its widely accepted that Jes Goodwin was given plenty of time to get it right, why is it such a stretch to believe that whatever team they have on the Tyranid 2nd wave was allowed similiar freedom, given how profitable DE were?

Just my opinion.

Also, I only read the first and last post in this thread, from Kroot(1st) to Plat(last as I write this), so if this post inadvertently parrots someone else opinion thats been debunked/argued over for 10 pages, apologies, but I've read this type of thread before and its pretty much always the same.

NELS1031 wrote:Am I crazy in thinking that maybe GW is just holding back a Tyranid second release because they are having trouble designing a 2 part kit with Tyrannofex and Tervigon? And/Or that they are waiting for the sculptors to knock out all of the special characters and other options that they neglected in the first release?

I look at the dark eldar release and its widely accepted that Jes Goodwin was given plenty of time to get it right, why is it such a stretch to believe that whatever team they have on the Tyranid 2nd wave was allowed similiar freedom, given how profitable DE were?

Just my opinion.

Also, I only read the first and last post in this thread, from Kroot(1st) to Plat(last as I write this), so if this post inadvertently parrots someone else opinion thats been debunked/argued over for 10 pages, apologies, but I've read this type of thread before and its pretty much always the same.

I think it's just as likely that they didn't see great sales from the 1st Tyranid wave and so they were just going to fit in the second wave whenever, if at all.

It would be nice to see GW move away from the feast or famine strategy of army releases, but I don't see how that can happen without blowing up every part of how they release editions and army books.

plastictrees wrote:I think it's just as likely that they didn't see great sales from the 1st Tyranid wave and so they were just going to fit in the second wave whenever, if at all.

It would be nice to see GW move away from the feast or famine strategy of army releases, but I don't see how that can happen without blowing up every part of how they release editions and army books.

Ya, that works too, I suppose.

To even reinforce your theory, I have to ask the folks who think a lawsuit is holding up the Tyranid 2nd wave, where are my 3 missing rare choices* and Razorgor chariot for my beloved Beastmen? What lawsuit is holding them up? The respective Codex and Army Book were released within a few months of each other if my memory serves correct.

*Even though I rarely if ever would use them in a game, I'd still purchase them for modeling options and completion's sake.

plastictrees wrote:It would be nice to see GW move away from the feast or famine strategy of army releases, but I don't see how that can happen without blowing up every part of how they release editions and army books.

Would this be such a terrible thing? It's not exactly working out for anyone besides marine players.

RuneGrey wrote:

plastictrees wrote:It would be nice to see GW move away from the feast or famine strategy of army releases, but I don't see how that can happen without blowing up every part of how they release editions and army books.

Would this be such a terrible thing? It's not exactly working out for anyone besides marine players.

Not at all, I just think it makes it less likely to actually happen.

plastictrees wrote:
I'm not being deliberately obtuse, I know you're saying "GW are saying people are thieves, but THEY are also thieves!". I'm just not seeing any similarities between the two situations..

Bolding the part I'm trying to explain. I'm not sure if the folks posting the examples of derivative works but in a courtroom the legalese for this is called "Dirty Hands". CHS can essentially say once things get moving that GW can't sue us for doing something that they themselves have already done multiple times in the past.

Simpler way of saying it: You can't sue me for something you yourself are guilty of.

Did i get this right, andrew, biccat?

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:

plastictrees wrote:
I'm not being deliberately obtuse, I know you're saying "GW are saying people are thieves, but THEY are also thieves!". I'm just not seeing any similarities between the two situations..

Bolding the part I'm trying to explain. I'm not sure if the folks posting the examples of derivative works but in a courtroom the legalese for this is called "Dirty Hands". CHS can essentially say once things get moving that GW can't sue us for doing something that they themselves have already done multiple times in the past.

Simpler way of saying it: You can't sue me for something you yourself are guilty of.

Did i get this right, andrew, biccat?

I understand that that's what people are saying, I'm just not seeing how the two situations are comparable.

Chimaera wrote:

carmachu wrote:

Chimaera wrote:
This may be correct but again why has GW been left to continue withour interuption legally if they are in the wrong. I also think 40k has a much more distinctive GW branding than there fantasy side and is much more easily identifiable.

I'm sure the lawyers will correct me, but if I recall right from the other thread, you cant trademark/copyright concepts. Which is what lizardmen- with swords, clubs, aztec weapons, all qualify as.

No 40k is NOT anymore distictive then fantasy. VArious concepts are just as influenced by other items as fantasy.

Totally take your point on the fantasy stuff but are you honestly telling me if you mixed a 40K Space Marine in with 20 other sci-fi Marine miniatures out there it wouldn't be distinctive. The same goes for a lot of the other 40K armies. Can anyone show me miniatures from another game that look quite same as 40K ones do and were produced before 40K? Maybe they are out there but I am not aware of them.

I think that could be argued, however CH aren't making Space Marines so where is the problem?

Has Chapterhouse actually copied anything? I mean, I've checked the site (briefly mind you) and all I saw was add ons and stuff GW hasn't released/made yet. They said stuff like "will fit on a Rhino" and "Space marine shoulderpad". I could really see the rage if they copied something directly, but they've merely filled some gaps and used the names in regards to 'for use with'. I've followed several of these threads and I'm firmly in the 'wtf is GW doing?' camp.
People keep putting forth the car company example, and I believe it works. Anything CH has put out either has to have GW model's as it's base, or they haven't put it out and it's been forever. With the Doom of Mal...Malen... the tyranid doom creature thingy, if GW put one out people would often buy it from GW rather than CH for many reasons. One of which is most players don't know CH exists, so will buy the GW version.
As for the OT, if these rumors _are_ true, I've just lost the last bit of respect for GW as a company I had. But surely not even they're that stupid...

It's not just about physical models though, which is why the auto industry is a bad analogy. Ford doesn't have series of books, games, illustrations etc. about the Ford Funkenhammer and it's various adventures which it releases prior to actually producing the Ford Funkenhammer.

So? GW didn't supply a demand. And this is only about the models. Anything else... well that gets tricky. And it seems that if ford were to release their Funkenhammer at around the time it released the other stuff, even if it took a year, it would solve the problem wouldn't it?
To take the D&D example previously, couldn't GW make the codex, release all of said models, then move on. You have everythign in the codex. Great you have a full army. But wait, what's this? An expansion? With new rules and models coming with it? and so on and so forth. They could keep every army updated in between editions, and still keep producing fresh new models, and keep the profits coming year after year. WOTC produced a new book for 3.5 every frigging month. At LEAST 1 per month. And they had so many more things to deal with than just D&D.
I both hope and fear them doing something like this. Because for one I'd be broke. But then I'd have more 40k stuff, and it's new.

CoI wrote:Has Chapterhouse actually copied anything? I mean, I've checked the site (briefly mind you) and all I saw was add ons and stuff GW hasn't released/made yet. They said stuff like "will fit on a Rhino" and "Space marine shoulderpad". I could really see the rage if they copied something directly, but they've merely filled some gaps and used the names in regards to 'for use with'. I've followed several of these threads and I'm firmly in the 'wtf is GW doing?' camp.
People keep putting forth the car company example, and I believe it works. Anything CH has put out either has to have GW model's as it's base, or they haven't put it out and it's been forever. With the Doom of Mal...Malen... the tyranid doom creature thingy, if GW put one out people would often buy it from GW rather than CH for many reasons. One of which is most players don't know CH exists, so will buy the GW version.
As for the OT, if these rumors _are_ true, I've just lost the last bit of respect for GW as a company I had. But surely not even they're that stupid...

My personal belief is that the entire suit was brought because of the Doom of Malantai model. The topic of this thread is 'Changes to GW release schedule because of Chapterhouse lawsuit' and I believe the Doom model could have had an effect. The reasoning being:
1) GW used the words 'Doom of Malantai' in a copyrighted work, but the text provided was (possibly) not sufficient enough to lead the Doom itself copyright protection as a character. 'Doom of Malantai' is relegated to the category of 'short phrase' and thus unprotectable.
2) CHS produces a Doom model. CHS now owns the unregistered trademark 'Doom of Malantai' on a tabletop wargaming brain-bug figure.
3) GW attempts to sell a 'Doom of Malantai' figure, but cannot, as CHS owns the trademark.

For the rest of CHS designs, they are mostly add-on parts (and thus probably allowable derivative works under fair use) featuring sufficiently generic heraldry, numerals or symbols. The Tervigon kit is another contender which falls into both categories: insufficiently described by GW so it is not protectable as a character, and sufficiently different from anything GW makes that it is 'inspired' or 'fair use derivative' rather than copied.

GW is maintaining that anything and everything that is obviously designed for their universe is their intellectual property, and that using the aesthetic of GW products when producing your own is infringement, but this stance does not seem tenable.

plastictrees wrote:It's not just about physical models though, which is why the auto industry is a bad analogy. Ford doesn't have series of books, games, illustrations etc. about the Ford Funkenhammer and it's various adventures which it releases prior to actually producing the Ford Funkenhammer.

GW does not have a series of books, games and illustrations relating to the Tervigon or the Doom of Malantai. They have short paragraphs and single images which are insufficient to make GW's expression of the concept of 'brood bug' and 'brain bug' unique enough to be protectable as characters. CHS most probably could not produce a Sanguinus or Horus model, because they have a lot of story behind them which makes them characters.
Laws like this are in place to prevent a company, say Ford, from writing a book called 'The Adventures of the Ford Lineup' which reads something like.
"Bob walked out of his house and into his garage. In there, he saw all his cars: the Ford Aaaaaaaa, the Ford Aaaaaaab, the Ford Aaaaaaac, the Ford Aaaaaaad... .. and finally, his favourite, the Ford Zzzzzzzzz. Then he went back inside, the end."
...and then claiming copyright/trademark on every single possible 8 character word.

In the case of some of CHS's addon parts like 'Star Fox Shoulderpads', it is simple enough to say: "ok, you claim these copy your products. Show me your Star Fox product." to which GW goes .. "uh... er... ummm... this is a Space Marine book which says 'there are over 1000 Space Marine chapters' "
In the case of say, 'Black Templar' marines, which are identifiable by their distinctive armour, you need to separate out what makes them unique. GW can't prevent someone from making shoulder-pad shaped objects, because its a simple 3D object. They can't prevent people from putting elements which are in the public domain on said shoulderpads. Templar Crosses have been around for a sight longer than GW has.

CoI wrote:So? GW didn't supply a demand. And this is only about the models. Anything else... well that gets tricky. And it seems that if ford were to release their Funkenhammer at around the time it released the other stuff, even if it took a year, it would solve the problem wouldn't it?
To take the D&D example previously, couldn't GW make the codex, release all of said models, then move on. You have everythign in the codex. Great you have a full army. But wait, what's this? An expansion? With new rules and models coming with it? and so on and so forth. They could keep every army updated in between editions, and still keep producing fresh new models, and keep the profits coming year after year. WOTC produced a new book for 3.5 every frigging month. At LEAST 1 per month. And they had so many more things to deal with than just D&D.
I both hope and fear them doing something like this. Because for one I'd be broke. But then I'd have more 40k stuff, and it's new.

Go back to the whining of 10 years ago, when people were saying "my whole army just got released, now I'm not going to see any new products for another 8 years!!" GW's sales strategy (seemingly) relies on their staggered edition/codex/wave releases brining in a sizable influx of cash at certain points. And to be honest, as they're the biggest wargames miniatures makers in the world, can you really say it doesn't work? Whilst as a gamer I'd prefer constant releases and updates, I can see the business sense in wave releases.

Who remembers the Blood Bowl Crisis of a couple of years back?

I think there are similarities between that situation and now.