Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Check the tau flyers. They have a rule that says they can't assault and can only be assaulted by fly units. The drake doesn't have this. It isn't in the core rules either (that we've seen so far).

herlldrake has basicly become a MC

My guess is that warp talon's weapons are not lightning claws. And instead probably something like rend 1. That's why they're cheaper than raptors that are also equipped with pistols, chainswords, nades and have access to all sorts of gear. Melta raptors are gona be great and a power weapon champ won't be sniped out. The death of challenges is one of the best things to happen to 8-th apart from vehicles turning to mc.

As for oblits, i'd like them to be assault 3 or a bit cheaper but they're not that bad as is. 3 wounds and deepstrike. 2+ and 5++ will allow them to occupy the midboard and never leave untill the enemy focuses them really hard. We don't know all the rules yet and it's too eary to cry about them being nerfed.

Yeah, but 3w on 8th are way far of being so effective as 3w on 7th.
Now lot of weapons will be able to blow an obliterator. A laser canon will obey them save several wounds at 5++

Also now because the lower range of their weapons they should use teleport.

In general I think that, sadly, havocs are better now. In particular since they can split fire, so you can use different weapons on the same unit

I don't mind the changes in principle to Oblits but GW are missing an opportunity here. Firstly they're extra-bulky (confirmed by the Land Raider rule on carrying capacity) so GW has confirmed they're the same size category as Centurions. So instead of continuing with this charade that speshul-marines get those and chaos don't why don't GW just admit that the Centurions that turned chaos during the heresy evolved into the Cult of Destruction? It's a gaping whole in 40k lore that needs filling. Give us new centurion sized oblit models already. And while we're at it why are they not T5 to match their size?

The random weapons are a little weird. A single roll would have been better - (1) Heavy 3 S7 AP -1 D 1 (2) Heavy 2 2 S8 AP -2 D 2 (3) Heavy 1 S9 AP -3 D3. It'd be nice to be able to choose your target properly rather than relying on pure chance to dictate what you can hurt. And with their short range they'd benefit from either having assault weapons rather than heavy or by having the ability to deep strike redeploy during the game. They also should have rending 1 on their shots to compensate for their loss of plasma and the overall chaos lack of assault cannons (which is still a joke for the chaos faction). These guys can make any weapon they like (or I guess in 8th terms are harnessing pure destruction itself) but they can't imitate a freakin assault cannon? come on GW.

Oblits now are being moved away from being Havocs+, which is fine, chaos have Havocs to do Havoc things. But that means the Oblits need to fill a new niche. Simply changing their weapons without defining a new role isn't going to cut it. What do they do now that other units won't do better? If they had rend 1, assault weapons and the ability to deep strike redeploy (full on Warp Spider teleport is too much) they'd be great as a heavy harassment unit or a bomb to drop behind enemy lines to mess gak up. As they stand they're an underwhelming and less flexible Havoc unit that will get eaten by a single predator or lascannon devastator squad in a single turn from across the board.

Looks like Oblits have been changed without any real thought into why they needed to be changed. Can anyone divine what role they're meant to play in an army now? Come on GW, just make them twisted corrupted Centurions already. We all know that's what they are after Cents were retconned into marines lists.

Oblits are going to be Counts as Centurions for people playing Spikey Loyalists. Between the loss of their Powerfists, versatile weapon selection, and the ability to be taken in units of 1-3 (instead of 3-5), there really isn't anything to differentiate them other than an Invulnerable I guess.

Havocs were the cost-effective shooting option, Oblits were the "troubleshooter" option, and that role has been effectively invalidated. Deep-Strike? For a better fire arc maybe, but shooting is dictated entirely by the defender and armor facings are gone. To avoid an alphastrike? Sure, if it's an artillery alpha-strike, but DS Melta is effectively dead this edition, while any other short-range shooting can be bubblewrapped with extreme prejudice.

Honestly, I'm not seeing much reason to run Chaos as a few token Havocs with Lascannons, a Warptime Sorcerer and everything else spent in Zombies. Don't even bother fighting, but just plop on objectives and go "I win" due to having more models. Sounds a lot like 6th, minus the Heldrakes.

Hmm. What are Land Raiders going to be good for?

7th ed: Move 12" T1, take a couple of Lascannon shots on re-rolled 6's or else pop smoke, T2, move 6", disembark shock troops effectively 5" due to inset of ramp and pretty much guarantee a charge, fire one Las shot on 3's/4's (depending on Daemonic) and one on 6's, then either sit there as a gun unit or do more ferrying

8th ed: Move 10" T1, blast away with four Las shots on 3's and also damage some Infantry because no way are you sacrificing that firepower just to roll a 1 for Advance and reduce BS3+ hit rate by 25%, T2, either disembark before moving due to no Assault Vehicle or else wait another turn to jump out - but by this point probably have taken 8W of damage and trundle along at 5" with no way to rapidly move away from Melta

A squad mounted in a LR seems to have a reduced threat range. Warptime and rerolls of charge dice look fairly necessary

Edit: wait, when you jump out of a LR you are put within 3" of its tracks and then move and also shoot, this is a bit better than I thought

Edit: speaking of transports, it looks like Havocs can take a Rhino and a squad of Cultists can deploy in it to go claim an objective

Something that hasn't been mentioned about the drake is that it can now take marks and legion rules. We don't know what kind of effect that will have on the drake. Though I'm kinda scared that mark effects and legion rules only apply to auras and maybe the odd psychic power, making both essentially useless on any fast unit like the drake or maybe even bikes.

Yeah, I've been thinking of how odd it is that we no longer purchase marks of chaos but rather give them to a unit which makes me worried that all that a mark of chaos or a legion will allow you to do is to benefit from something like stratigems rather than get anything worth while like +1T, invul, etc.

Not sure whether I like this.

Hmm, we have access to Flyer Wings with our FW fleet, and also to Fortifications without taking a CAD. Also we can take defacto Allied Detachments to keep, say, the detachments of a World Eaters army with a couple of Death Guard holding units 'pure'.

I like the command detachment.

I've always wanted to run nothing but GDs.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Yeah, I've been thinking of how odd it is that we no longer purchase marks of chaos but rather give them to a unit which makes me worried that all that a mark of chaos or a legion will allow you to do is to benefit from something like stratigems rather than get anything worth while like +1T, invul, etc.

Not sure whether I like this.

It's also entirely possible chaos lords (and other HQs potentially) might give different rules to units in range, depending on their own mark.

So a nurgle chaos lord might have a rule where nurgle (or legion) units in range reduce the strength of incoming attacks, or can rerolls saves.

I'm fairly convinced marks and legion tactic army wide rules are both out. Maybe you can spend CP to get those bonuses across your army, but I'd be surprised.

I'd also like to throw in a frown about how our apostles and warpsmiths are still footslogging -_-, yet the god mounts which also don't have a model have rules...

You would think a warpsmith could have built a bike by now

ahh, my jump pack dark apostle. Noooo.

Lol like I ever used that, I've got my Juggerlords, I'm chill.

So managed a tester 8th game, matching up power levels.

7 1x Captain
-- 1x Boltstorm Gauntlet
-- 1x MC power sword

6 5x Intercessor
-- 5x Bolt Rifle
-- 5x Bolt Pistol
-- 5x Frag/Krak grenades

6 5x Intercessor
-- 5x Bolt Rifle
-- 5x Bolt Pistol
-- 5x Frag/Krak grenades

8 3x Inceptor
-- 6x Assault Bolters

12 5x Hellblaster
-- 5x Plasma Incinerator
-- 5x Bolt Pistol
-- 5x Frag/Krak grenades

39

9 1x Lord of Contagion
-- 1x Plaguereaper

7 5x Plague Marines
-- 5x Blight/Krak grenades
-- 4x Plague knife (1x Sword)
-- 2x Bolter
-- 2x Blight Launcher
-- 1x Power Fist
-- 1x Combi-Flamer

7 5x Plague Marines
-- 5x Blight/Krak grenades
-- 4x Plague knife (1x Sword)
-- 2x Bolter
-- 2x Blight Launcher
-- 1x Power Fist
-- 1x Combi-Plasma

10 1x Foetid Bloat-Drone
-- 2x Plaguespitter
-- 1x Plague probe

6 20x Poxwalkers
-- 20x Improvised weapon

39

The Plauge Marines died rather quickly to the Inceptors, I was expecting them to hold up a bit longer, those Inceptors pack a serious punch! Blight Launchers were quite effective at whittling down the Primaris and took out 3 Hellblasters.

The Lord of Contagion is a beast, if a little slow. He took alot of punishment and managed to take out the Primaris Captain, the Inceptors, 2 Hellblasters and 4 Intercessors by himself.

The Drone was unimpressive... doing little in combat and little with its flamers, it did however shrug off everything thrown at it.

The Plauges that reached combat didn't do great with only 1A each. The power Fist did bring down an Intercessor however.

The Poxwalkers were.... unimpressive. Quite fragile even with the 5+ FNP, Slow and a single weak attack, they managed to cause 1 Wound but were quickly dispatched by a combined charge of Primaris who all have 2 or more attacks base.

hmm not exactly inspiring. hopefully mark of Nurgle and detachment bonuses might even things up,



So the loyalists got the correct number of shots (4) on their knight Icarus cannon :-/

Sounds underwhelming on the Nurgle side. Too bad. Kinda expected, though. NuMarine have to be the bestest.

Although that report does sell the plague units pretty short, I am so happy that the Lord is a beast. Chaos has always been about (and the reason why a got into chaos) amazing characters filled to the brim with chaotic rewards that allow them to throw loyalists around like dolls.

I would trade all the legion rewards, chaos marks and cult units if it would be assured that my chaos Lord could rofl stomp any other character in the game just like the good old days.

I'm just excited to make an army of mauler/forgefiends and helldrakes xD

Ecdain wrote:
I'm just excited to make an army of mauler/forgefiends and helldrakes xD

Lead by a brass scorpion

I think, in all honesty, is was the bloat drone holding that list back. Both from what you described and what id been assuming based on stats, seemed mediocre.

Pox walkers sounded even more disappointing that I expected.

Do you think 4 units of plague marines+the lord would've ended up doing better? If so, that actually bodes well for a DG army with a troop heavy list

SilverAlien wrote:
Pox walkers sounded even more disappointing that I expected.

What exactly do people expect from poxwalkers? They are basically 7e plague zombies, they're not supposed to be power houses, they're supposed to be cheap troop choices that can sit on an objective and not move because 1. They are tougher than the equivilent cultist and 2. They are fearless. Do people really expect them to beat the nu-marines in combat?

 mrhappyface wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Pox walkers sounded even more disappointing that I expected.

What exactly do people expect from poxwalkers? They are basically 7e plague zombies, they're not supposed to be power houses, they're supposed to be cheap troop choices that can sit on an objective and not move because 1. They are tougher than the equivilent cultist and 2. They are fearless. Do people really expect them to beat the nu-marines in combat?

I've never really liked troops as a tax/dedicated objective squatters, that's what attracted me to CSM (and admech as well). Admittedly it didn't really work well for CSM, but at least the cult units felt like they had the potential to be more.

From that angle, seeing one of the unique death guard units be basically just that was disappointing, and hearing that they do tend to not even manage to stay up in combat when they get there was expected but still sad.

Warhammer fest games were very different. Death guard put a beating on the new marines in most of the games.

Its really about the player this edition over the army. If you know what to do you'll be able to do it.

Obviously there will be a learning curve but the death guard are fine. Couple of starter sets, convert the spare characters and add multipart PM, new terminators and couple of other bits and the army will be on point

Zombies and Cultists are Zombies and Cultists. You can't expect anything from them besides diing in droves. Obviously that Poxwalkers can't do anything against a elite force as the primaris marines. Put them charging a big unit of Imperial Guard or other equivalent cheap infantry and then you'll see how they do something.

I believe more Infantry would do better than the Drone. Partly because flamers don't do much to T4 W2 Sv3+ models.

The Poxwalkers did make a decent distraction to soak a little Bolt fire and could work well sitting on an objective (the Primaris were sadly sitting on the one random objective we had from the 'Only War' mission)

Seems like you now control an objective with bodies so they could be used to swamp locations. I think they went down quick mostly due to the A2 of the Primaris.

So khorne bezerkers.

Fight twice.

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/18768501_1461837970503461_2667973795471096326_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=f8e15e1bc1b5c31f346e3c953bebd3bc&oe=59A76BC4

So... Demonic Ritual is the new summoning.

It's not a psyhic power.

Interesting...

Oh my goodness berserkers are BEASTS!

Also,I heard that Primaris Marines were getting stomped left and right at Warhammer fest.

I think the fest games started closer than 24" allowing combat earlier + less shooting.