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So one of the staple units (for good or bad) in all my Chaos armies is the Defiler.
Normally I've been running it with +2 DCCW and its use is fairly simple.

Walk towards the enemy on turns 1-3 (depending) and fire Battle Cannon
then either Fleet into combat with something juicy (and without a hidden Power Fist) or continue firing the Battle Cannon.
Simple, but I feel like there could be more to this unit.

Does anyone have any other tried and true ideas for how to play the Defiler?

In a Chaoszilla or (Monster Mash) it's better/handier to run them with the heavy flamer and autocannon for those situations where a battlecannon doesn't cut it, like baking snipers or hordes, or popping rhinos before you charge in. Plus, you won't have much other shooting, so it's nice to have the different weapon options.

Trouble is any of the weapons options won't get used unless you loose the Battle cannon.

Tri wrote:Trouble is any of the weapons options won't get used unless you loose the Battle cannon.

Which is why I've gone back to Reaper/DCCW in recent games. Its working better because the Reaper is sometims the preferred weapon (against AV10 skimmers for example).

Didn't whitedragon just explain that the Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer and the Reaper Autocannon had uses in addition to the Battle Cannon?

The Autocannon is an accurate anti-vehicle weapon, and the Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer is great for both harrowing hordes, and baking troops in cover.

I'd keep the RAC for those cases when you get an immobilized and weap. destroyed result, so you can keep shootin'. It and the HF, as stated, is great for hordes and troops in cover.

Due to the size of the Defiler's model and the placement of the Heavy Flamer, I'm really not sure how useful it will be, especially if I'm immobilized.

minigun762 wrote:Due to the size of the Defiler's model and the placement of the Heavy Flamer, I'm really not sure how useful it will be, especially if I'm immobilized.

Well you could always take the havoc launcher, if you want range.

I run mine as a distraction. Since most of my army moves forward in rhinos, if the defiler hung back it wouldn't be as big of a threat, and my rhinos would suffer.

But it runs alongside everything else, making a real nuisance of itself. They can't ignore it!

What's great is after 2 turns of advance + run with the defiler, within assault range next turn, people still choose to blow off the battle cannon instead of some ccw. Don't they know what's coming?

Nurglitch wrote:Didn't whitedragon just explain that the Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer and the Reaper Autocannon had uses in addition to the Battle Cannon?

That's exactly what I was thinking. I swear I posted, and you proved it because you read it too. Apparently, I'm either not smart enough to type a coherent post, or other posters aren't literate enough to read it.

Or, we're all on Ignore.

did you see that? that's weird. it was as if whitedragon posted something....

How is any of this New?

Sanctjud wrote:How is any of this New?

i think he's asking for new tactIcs on using the Defiler, not offering any.

I run with DCCW or heavy flamer. the flamer is nice for the numberous horde armies out there (so your not tied up nearly as long trying to take out that orc mob)

whitedragon wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Didn't whitedragon just explain that the Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer and the Reaper Autocannon had uses in addition to the Battle Cannon?

That's exactly what I was thinking. I swear I posted, and you proved it because you read it too. Apparently, I'm either not smart enough to type a coherent post, or other posters aren't literate enough to read it.

Or, we're all on Ignore.

No i read all post but i can't read new posts it till i refresh the page ... which happened after I hit posted. I though most people would work that out so never bother to responded on it.

Personally I don't think that a TL-H.flamer or TL-Autocannon are much use as they don't really gel together as whole, but i can see why people may want them.

alarmingrick wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:How is any of this New?

i think he's asking for new tactIcs on using the Defiler, not offering any.

I was asking for new ones yeah. However I'm not sure if the weapon loadouts really do much for your tactics. Even if you took all 3 weapon systems, its pretty easy to decide what to fire what at (Battlecannon = MEQs, Reaper = light armor, Heavy Flamer = infantry).

My hope is more about how to use the Defiler in roles outside of walking fire support followed by assaulting. Maybe there isn't a better way and thats ok, but it doesn't hurt to ask right?

Sit it beside a dread with two DCCWs. I like running two dreads and two defilers one of each on opposite sides of each other and walk them up the board.

I just park him in one spot and sit there. I generally have my Defiler go for infantry that will be tough to crack (like Terminators, if they are on foot) or light vehicles. I reserve my Vindicators for heavy vehicles like Land Raiders.

Vindicator#9 wrote:Sit it beside a dread with two DCCWs. I like running two dreads and two defilers one of each on opposite sides of each other and walk them up the board.

Interesting idea, the Dread will be unable to hurt the Defiler and 2 walkers are pretty decent in assault. You could even go with a DCCW/Missile Launcher if you want the Dread to have a little bit of extra ranged punch.

I've been running my Defiler in either TL-Heavy Flamer/ DCCW or, more recently and frequently, TL-Heavy Flamer/TL-Heavy Bolter. My army is build more like a shooty army, using Daemons and Possessed to bring the assault portion on later. I use my Defiler like a Vulture from Mechwarrior: use your powerful ranged weapon to weaken your opponent, then advance and use your close ranged burst weapons to finish them off. At close range, a Battlecannon is a bad idea; it can scatter into you, or off target which can force you to bite off more than you can chew in assault. The TL Heavy Weapons more reliably put wounds over the entire squad (short of horde mobs). The Defiler is a bully unit, and needs to get into the low-risk close combats.

I really don't like the Defiler built with all CCWs. Besides looking ugly as hell, it is win big or lose big build. If you can weapon destroyed and immobilize it once each it becomes useless, making any rolls on the damage table more dangerous. As far as actual performance, though, the extra attacks doesn't help broaden it's target range. It is still a bully unit, but now it risks running down its opponents in the initial combat, leaving it exposed. It still can't take on MCs, most other Walkers, or close combat specialists. Built with more guns, it takes longer to neutralize as it will keep firing until it is dead. The Defiler is built as a gun-boat first, an assault unit later.

DarkHound wrote:
-it is win big or lose big build. If you can weapon destroyed and immobilize it once each it becomes useless, making any rolls on the damage table more dangerous.

-As far as actual performance, though, the extra attacks doesn't help broaden it's target range. It is still a bully unit, but now it risks running down its opponents in the initial combat, leaving it exposed.

-The Defiler is built as a gun-boat first, an assault unit later.

A) Yes it is. Which is why you either go big or go home. All youre doing is dumbing it down and making it an "ok" unit instead of a deadly one. Heavy support is too important for CSM to waste 1 (terrible idea for defilers imo) or 2 heavy support choices on an ok unit. If you dont want the risk, choose a different unit. Same thing with the vindicator.

B) The extra attacks help hit those vehicles and get some kills at WS3. I really hate when people talk about the risk of running a unit down. Youre using a 150 point unit on something that is most likely worth an equal amount, and then its going to take a ton of shooting the following turn (that is, if theyre not tied down in combat). That's much better than staying in combat and getting killed by a powerfist hitting you on 3s.

C) I disagree. Its melee oriented and can occasionally shoot the battle cannon of the opportunity presents itself.

Night Lords wrote:I disagree. Its melee oriented and can occasionally shoot the battle cannon of the opportunity presents itself.

Then we aren't going to agree, but I'll argue because I do enjoy the motions.

The issue can be distilled down to splitting your damage between the shooting phase and assault, or going all in for the assault. When you split between shooting and assault, you increase your damage against infantry. The TL-H Flamer and Bolter will deal more damage than two extra CC swings against anything except the odd Terminator or Nob squad, but those aren't the units you want to be engaging because you'll lose. Always hitting on, at best, fours hurts the Defiler as a CC machine.

I don't know... what do you buy the Defiler for?

I buy it for the battle cannon, so I'll be sure to use it as long as I can.
Everything thing else is secondary.

WS3 + Av12 + questionable ability to get through meatbags means a not so healthy combat phase...better to hug whatever cover you can find.

As for Tactics.
Starting them on the board is really hit or miss.
I've favored leaving the min reserves so they will ALWAYS get one shot off, even if it's late game, where they are flexible enough to fleet into combat if there are dudes on my objective placed near the long table edge...at least to contest if there's no helping.

I do just take the Defiler stock, with Reaper and Hvy flamers, just to keep flexible.

But in general I don't expect much out of it.

I must be the odd man out because I feel that if you're using a Defiler you really have to embrace its hybrid nature to get the full effect out of it.

If all you're looking for is a pie plate, the Vindicator does a similar job with a better blast. Or go with a pair of Oblits if you want the added range.

If all you're looking for is an assault walker, a 2x DCCW Dreadnought is 2/3 the price and has WS4/I4 with a roughly equal # of attacks.

The aspect of the Defiler that I like is that you can switch back and forth between being a fire support unit one turn and an assault unit the other. Now while a Defiler might not be great to toss up against 30 Boyz with a hidden Klaw alone, I think it can work pretty well if supported by infantry.

Just a point about chewing through a unit and then copping it from return fire: The Defiler is Fleet. That means you can move and pop smoke, run, assault, win the assault, murder your victims, and then occupy cover when the inevitable return fire comes.

My use of Defilers is like this: Move closer to the enemy, shoot Battle Cannon, move closer to the enemy, shoot Battle Cannon, move cover to the enemy, run, assault. Rinse, repeat. Basically if the enemy is outside of 14", Battlecannon (or Reaper, etc), and if within 13" then charge! At 14"-15" though it depends a bit more on conditions to qualify the risk.

The flamer never gets used on mine because of the shape of the model.
hard to set up good hits with it.


Rac always sees use though, theres always something av 12 or less that needs more holes in it.


extra dccw, in a way, that eggbeater is neat.


Havoc launcher.. sure, another blast to throw around if the cannon is scrapped, and an accurate one at that.

lascannon... too expensive for my tastes when the RAC is free.

Hb .. nah, the rest of the list does the anti-infantry thing just fine.




If you want something flexible and don't use oblit's, the defiler is a nice choice.

arachnid wrote:The flamer never gets used on mine because of the shape of the model.
hard to set up good hits with it.

I need to see a picture of this.

minigun762 wrote:

Vindicator#9 wrote:Sit it beside a dread with two DCCWs. I like running two dreads and two defilers one of each on opposite sides of each other and walk them up the board.

Interesting idea, the Dread will be unable to hurt the Defiler and 2 walkers are pretty decent in assault. You could even go with a DCCW/Missile Launcher if you want the Dread to have a little bit of extra ranged punch.

Try the Dreadnaught Phalanx! 3 dreads w/ TL HB's/DCCW! March them shoulder to shoulder up the field. Hilarious

I read a battle report where the CSM player used 3 Defilers parking three Rhinos in front
so that the Defilers got cover saves.
The enemy had a hard time to take them on.

wuestenfux wrote:I read a battle report where the CSM player used 3 Defilers parking three Rhinos in front
so that the Defilers got cover saves.
The enemy had a hard time to take them on.

I don't think that Rhinos are big enough to cover 50% of a Defiler are they?

Doing the reverse works though.