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Lets start at the top.

HQ

Autarch - Ability to take an Exarch power and convert it to an aspect he joins (could get some nice mix's going)
Farseer - The greatest psykers in the universe? I think not, the most useful powers they have access to are the support powers (which are amazing) but i feel some destructive spells would be nice. Mind war is becoming less useful (anything worth using it on is proberly Ld 10) and eldritch storm is often just a waste of points as it is barely used in my local. Having a webway related power (ie, pick up the farseer and his squad and DS them) would fit in well, and is already used in several other armies so the mechanics are already there.
Warlock - Ld 9 would be nice, their presence should inspire guardians some what. Conceal should also work as stealth when a unit is in cover already. Enhance would be nice is you could have +BS instead of +WS as a choice when you buy the power (one or the other in any Eldar turn, never both at the same time)
Avatar - Eternal warrior would be nice. Also i'd imagine him with a higher S and a lower I
Special Characters -

ELITE

Striking Scorpions -
Fire Dragons - ability to swap meltas for flamers would be great
Wraithguard - Fine as is (10 wraithguard with a spirit seer as troops? objective holding ftw) more of a complaint at real life, £8 a model!!! grrr!!!!
Banshees - S3 power weapons fail (doom ftw) and warshout hardly ever works, but... they do scare people, when they work they really do work well. Having a squad upgrade for executioners would add some variety
Harlequins -

TROOPS

Dire Avengers - how about a diresword AND shimmershield combo at +20 points?
Rangers/Pathfinders - bit expensive for a unit that can be beaten in combat by a guardsman with a foam bat. (maybe defensive grenades)
Guardian Defenders - just don't like them, Dire avengers are so much more better for only 4 points each, maybe if they had a warlock power like enhance but for shooting (+1 BS instead of WS) And the option to take melta/flamers instead of a platform.
Storm guardians - an assault unit that is S3, T3... pass.
Guardian jetbikes - a bit of variety on the weapon upgrade (like an EML for instance)

FAST ATTACK

Shining Spears - A decent unit considering the S6 power weapons on the charge but points cost is a bit high.
Warp spiders - Replace surprise assault with something more useful. Exarch Death spinner variant S6 AP- flame template at +10 points
Swooping hawks - look good on paper, fail in practice. lower the cost or improve them somehow.
Vyper - +35 points for holo-fields? on a VYPER?

HEAVY SUPPORT

Support weapon battery - Drop base cost by 10, then you might see them being used more than once in a blue moon
Dark reapers - over priced, drop points to 30
Wraithlord - may taken a d-cannon at ??? points, may not take a second heavy weapon. Eternal warrior just in case?
Falcon - overpriced just a little, most people take the fire prism anyway

GENERAL

Wave Serpents - Open-topped upgrade (or downgrade) for when you have a serpent full of scorpions (or similar)
Vehicle upgrade - Targeting array (+1BS but not on a fire prism its already BS4) +15 points


Can't think of more right now...

I don't play Eldar, but I play against them rather often, so I think I can offer some useful input.

Fire Dragons: That sounds like a nice way of make Fire Dragons useful in more situations, I like it!

Rangers/Pathfinders: They are a sniping unit they should be headshoting the guardsmen with a foam bat.

Wraithlord: ...Eternal Warrior on a Toughness 8 unit? That's a little much.

Avatar: Now, Eternal Warrior does make sence on him, if only for fluff purposes.

Chaos303 wrote:I don't play Eldar, but I play against them rather often, so I think I can offer some useful input.

Fire Dragons: That sounds like a nice way of make Fire Dragons useful in more situations, I like it!

Rangers/Pathfinders: They are a sniping unit they should be headshoting the guardsmen with a foam bat.

Wraithlord: ...Eternal Warrior on a Toughness 8 unit? That's a little much.

Avatar: Now, Eternal Warrior does make sence on him, if only for fluff purposes.

Thanks

Been thinking flamers would be nice on FD for a while now, i think it'll work nicely.
Rangers//Pathfinders, yea well... at their points cost you wont be taking many guys per turn, but a failed pinning test here and there doesn't go amiss
Wraithlord/Avatar. If you think the Avatar should have EW for fluff purposes shouldn't the WL (hard as nails, nearly indestructible, hence T8)
It wouldn't crop up much, but i can think of a few things that could potentially insta kill a WL.

Any other input on this?

EDIT:typo

No ET on Wraithlord and it doesn't make fluff sense like for the Avatar (living embodiment of an enternal god).

Pathfinders/rangers are any use against guardsmen, but great against MEQ and TEQ and MC etc. They don't need to be cheaper you just need to use them correctly...

Like Flamers for the fire dragons would fit in with the Exarch's wargear too. Though would probably make Striking Scorpions redundant and not fit the single purpose fluff of the aspect warriors.

Striking scorpions need to be fixed so the Exarch (and PL) can use the chainsword and claw at the same time, currently it is totally broken.

Farseers are the best psykers inthe game they don't need offesive powers. Whilst your ideas on the Warlocks conceal and enhance sound great with guardians the Jetbike council would become ludicrous. 2+ cover save when turbo boosting, everything has BS5 WS5 at least they are one of the most powerful units in the game as is they would just become a win button with your suggestions.

On the Banshees - War shout is only 5 points and a nice chance at a boon. Yes S3 but that is why you always doom whatever they are charging...

OT on Wave Serpents doesn't fit the fluff and make the already powerful Eldar basically unstoppable. Far too OP in this army.

Dire Avengers should be in close combat so I don't see the need for that option really.

I don't like you changes to the guardians. Guardians are supposed to be a bit rubbish.

I would like more weapons options on the Jetbikes.

Yeah Wraithlord should be able to take support weapon weapons but can then only have 1 weapon.

DR, Support Batteries and Shining spears all need a point drop agreed.

No targeting arrays that is for Tau, Falcon is over priced though.

Well that's my 2 pence anyway.

Numbered your points to make it easier for me.

FlingitNow wrote:
1) No ET on Wraithlord and it doesn't make fluff sense like for the Avatar (living embodiment of an enternal god).
2) Pathfinders/rangers are any use against guardsmen, but great against MEQ and TEQ and MC etc. They don't need to be cheaper you just need to use them correctly...
3)Like Flamers for the fire dragons would fit in with the Exarch's wargear too. Though would probably make Striking Scorpions redundant and not fit the single purpose fluff of the aspect warriors.
4) Striking scorpions need to be fixed so the Exarch (and PL) can use the chainsword and claw at the same time, currently it is totally broken.
5) Farseers are the best psykers inthe game they don't need offesive powers. Whilst your ideas on the Warlocks conceal and enhance sound great with guardians the Jetbike council would become ludicrous. 2+ cover save when turbo boosting, everything has BS5 WS5 at least they are one of the most powerful units in the game as is they would just become a win button with your suggestions.
6) On the Banshees - War shout is only 5 points and a nice chance at a boon. Yes S3 but that is why you always doom whatever they are charging...
7) OT on Wave Serpents doesn't fit the fluff and make the already powerful Eldar basically unstoppable. Far too OP in this army.
8) Dire Avengers should be in close combat so I don't see the need for that option really.
9) I don't like you changes to the guardians. Guardians are supposed to be a bit rubbish.
10) I would like more weapons options on the Jetbikes.
11) Yeah Wraithlord should be able to take support weapon weapons but can then only have 1 weapon.
12) DR, Support Batteries and Shining spears all need a point drop agreed.
13) No targeting arrays that is for Tau, Falcon is over priced though.

If i sound mean, sorry, its just my style of typing.

1) Wraithlords have millennia of experience (according to fluff in the codex) and wraithbone is incredibly hard to destroy (according to fluff in the codex)
2) I do use them correctly... but no matter how well you use them they will get hit on the head (IDEA: adding defensive grenades)
3) The single purpose fluff is broken as soon as the Exarch takes an anti-personnel weapon anyway (hawks, spiders, reapers and spears are good at both anti-infantry and anti-tank so that kinda gak's up the single purpose idea) But in the end its still close ranged firey death.
4) Havn't yet played scorpions as they dont fit in with my current style of play so i can't comment on that.
5) Didn't think about the jetbike council (IDEA improve cover to a max of 3+?) Simple change that the BS enhance doesn't stack with the WS enhance, same as WS enhance doesn't stack with another WS enhance. Choose one or the other at the start of the eldar turn.
6) I know.
7) It's nice to dream
8) Did you mean "shouldn't" well its all down to your style of play, i regularly send in dire avengers when it comes to the charge or be charged scenario, and that weapon combo would be nice to have.
9) Thats why i don't usually use them, but i'd consider it if i had access to the assault weapons without having to ditch my catapults.
10)
11) As i said
12)
13) Yes it is for tau, but im pretty sure the Eldar could utilise something similar. In the same way we still use Krak missiles.

dayve110 wrote: If you think the Avatar should have EW for fluff purposes shouldn't the WL (hard as nails, nearly indestructible, hence T8)
It wouldn't crop up much, but i can think of a few things that could potentially insta kill a WL.

Any other input on this?

EDIT:typo

4 or 5+ Invulnerable save would be more useful, being T8 stops anything other than special attacks that automatically cause instant death. its not like giving eternal warrior to a T4 model to prevent it getting screwed over by a lucky krak missile.

1) Yes millennia of experience but they are not immortal like PLs or the Avatar. They have toughness 8 already. ET should be for unique beings only.
2) OK adding defensive greandes makes sense. I points reduction doesn't as they can be frighteningly effective at range.
3) See point 4.
4) Which is why you want flamers on your firedragons... The main problem I have with the option is that the Firedragons would be better close ranged anti-horde than Striking Scorpions which are the Eldar's close ranged anti-horde experts...
5) Yeah that would fix it.
7) Obviously but Eldar are one of the best armies in the agme as is they don't need codex creep.
8) Yeah it should be "shouldn't". I'd prefer to have the defend ability have a price bump and bestow widthdraw but limit it to the turn in which they are assaulted. Dire Avengers should not be effective in assault but should be able to survive it.
13) Sure they could use it but as pointed out they are powerful enough as is they don't need the bump like Tau do who only have shooting to rely on.

FlingitNow wrote: 4) Which is why you want flamers on your firedragons... The main problem I have with the option is that the Firedragons would be better close ranged anti-horde than Striking Scorpions which are the Eldar's close ranged anti-horde experts...
8) Yeah it should be "shouldn't". I'd prefer to have the defend ability have a price bump and bestow widthdraw but limit it to the turn in which they are assaulted. Dire Avengers should not be effective in assault but should be able to survive it.
13) Sure they could use it but as pointed out they are powerful enough as is they don't need the bump like Tau do who only have shooting to rely on.

4) I don't want flamers because i have no scorpions (40 dire avengers give me a hell of alot of anti-horde) i just really like flamers... and thought, if the Exarch can either take a suped-up melta (fire pike) or a suped-up flamer (heavy flamer) why can't the normal guys take the normal versions of each.
8) According to the fluff in the avenger codex entry they are supposed to be rather decent in assault, in reality they can hold their own better than most units.
13) The fire prism is described as having a tracking array (hence why its BS4) it wouldn't be hard to assume the same technology couldn't be used on the falcon (the main battle tank, strangely the falcon in the worst shot in my army)

4) I know it makes sense but as I say it would make scorpions completely redundant.
8) Fair enough
13) It is more a game balance issue than a fluff issue.

1) I agree that eternal warrior is unnecessary for a T8 unit. A 4 or 5+ invul save would be nice though, perhaps as a war gear option. They also need more attacks. I would like to see the wraithsword give them some kind of bonus in that regard.
4) Maybe for a few squad members, but I'm not sure about the whole unit. Fluff wise it does make sense.
8) It often find it useful for dire avengers to charge a unit they have just shot, especially useful if they have diresword/just bladestormed/ or both. Considering that and that they are apparently the most "tactically flexible" aspect (so says the codex), I wonder why they don't have plasma grenades. I would rather like to see those get distributed to most aspect warriors, and it certainly makes no sense why shining spears and banshees don't have them.
I agree with the LD boost to warlocks.

Unmentioned stuff
I think the avatar needs something like preferred enemy or its equivalent. I mean WS 10 is great but in game terms every schmo with a chaplain or genestealer with feeder tendrils has a better chance to hit than the GOD OF WAR. Seems a bit silly to me. Maybe furious charge as well? OT?

Why don't all the phoenix lords have battle fate?

1) Agreed
4) As I said fluff wise it makes sense a mixed unit would be a bit pointless and no-one would take it whilst an all flamer unit would stuff Scorpions.
8) Yeah plasmas hsould be distributed more evenly. I agree with this.

Yeah warlocks could have a boosted Ld but not convinced te Eldar should be that brave.

Agreed on the Avatar in 1st Ed WS10 meant he would hit nearly everything on a 2 in 2nd Ed it meant he would never get hit in CC and laways dish out the pain.

All the Phoenix Lords need an invulnerable save you can't spend 200 points on a model with no invulnerable save that is just stupid. They get crunched in CC by almost every other IC simply because of that. Karandras needs to be fixed like all Scorpion Exarchs he needs to be able to use the claw and chainsword at the same time.

i think scorpions could still have a place, most eldar armies i see dropped scorpions in favor of harlies anyway but there is still an upside to taking them, being stealthy n such with a 3+sv.

And as for the Phoenix lords... i'd rather just buy yriel, he is cheaper, and can still dish out some mean attacks (and has an inv save)

But what do you think of the other points i raised?

All i think eldar really need, Is cheaper wave serpents,

And some kind of wargear that cancel psychic hooding effects, i.e you cast fortune, they hood it successfully, on a 3+ you cancel their psychic hoods effect, not just hood though, all nullifying powers, eldar are the most powerful psykers in the galaxy ....

I def agree on the wave serpents. They are really good, but 90 points is just too much. I was thinking maybe, if they dropped the points by 10, and just made shuri cannons free (i.e. they come standard on the base serpent), that would even it out. They could of course drop some prices on the other weapon options to even that out too.
Speaking of thing that need points drop, bright lances need something done to them. 45 points is too much even for a twin linked BL. They really are not that good.
Either drop the points a lot (dark lances, cough, cough), or make them AP 1 or something. As it is now, I would never take them.

With a 4+ invul, I would take most of the phoenix lords over yriel any day (though he is pretty great).
I do agree that eldar psker prowess is a bit underrepresented, but I'm not sure that cancelling hoods like that is the best way to do it (although tempting with all the runic weapons running around these days). Maybe, attempts to cancel eldar powers have a -1 modifier to their rolls?

I def agree on the wave serpents. They are really good, but 90 points is just too much. I was thinking maybe, if they dropped the points by 10, and just made shuri cannons free (i.e. they come standard on the base serpent), that would even it out. They could of course drop some prices on the other weapon options to even that out too.

So a faster hugely tougher and equally armed tank with options for vastely superior armament should cost the same as a devilfish? Sure that is really balanced...

Speaking of thing that need points drop, bright lances need something done to them. 45 points is too much even for a twin linked BL. They really are not that good.

A single rail gun is 50 points and has no better chance of penetrating a LR than the Brightlance and isn't TL... 45 for a TL Brightlance is about the same as a TL Lascannon (well it's 60 points on a Pred) for AP2 and similar strength seems about right.

When we said the wave serpent is over priced, we meant in relation to the reasonably priced transports of what are generally considered the upper tier factions. So things like rhinos, chimeras, vendettas, drop pods, battle wagons, trukks, etc. All you proved was that the tau devilfish is also, very much over priced (which is true). Taking a 35 point rhino, improving its front AV by 1, making it a skimmer, and calling it a devilfish, isn't worth 45 more points. Personally I think the devilfish should be around chimera point level since, they have similar armor, main gun etc. We know tau have quite a few problems right now.

All you proved was that the tau devilfish is also, very much over priced (which is true).

Fair enough I still think as the Wave Serpent would be a tank in any other army and can transport a full squad of troops and is fast that it's points value is about right. Yes they are expensive but they brilliant better than the more expensive Falcon if you ask me (which I know you didn't ).

Still think I'm right about the Brightlance in most cases too. Though it shouldn't be double to be twinlinked on the WL that is just stupid. 80 ponts for a TL Bright lance is ludicrous, they should either be half cost for the 2nd weapon (like Tau) or not actually count as a 2nd weapon.

Thinking about it the BL is over costed actually. It should be 30 points and 45 TL on the WL as that is BS4 like a Space Marine and the weapon is directly comparable to a Lascannon. Therefore 20 and 30 for the Falcon and Serpent BS3 level. Does that sound about right? Or should it be 25/35?

Tl brightlances are way too expensive yea, But i would still rather have some counter to psychic hoods, mabye on the idea earlier, but not -1 thats too lenient, -2.

The eldar are masters of psychic shenanigans, and saw that attempt that puny rune priest is going ot make to hood their casting of fortune decades before it happened .... i think theyd come prepared.

As it is, i pretty much wont play space wolves with my eldar, no psyker pwoers = eldar are 100% gimp ...

Easy take 2 farseers he'll only stop half the powers. Yeah the Runic blade or whatever it's called is too OP compared to say Psychic hoods. But hey it is SW we knew they'd gimp everything at least they are miles worse than they used to be so look on the bright side

But to have something that nullifies a nullifying attempt is getting ridiculous, then the imperium could make something that nullifies your nullifiying nullifier and you then make something that....

not ridiculous, if not something to nullify, then something ot make it only work on a 5-6+ even with that cheating wolf guys 3+ hood.

or what if it were like the newer mechanic in other things, like successful invul saves must be rerolled, something like, can never be hooded on a roll below 4+ (to deal with njal the cheater) and sucessful hoods must be rerolled.

mabye some rule for farseers and warlocks, can only ever be hooded or canceled on a roll of 5+, overwrites normal hood rules and runic weapons and njals damn 3+

edit:
and yea take 2 farseers ... well the matter is the only one i care about fportune going off is the jetseer thats in their face with a council, i could care less if the farseer at my board edge babysitting guardians and such is hooded ... it turns a 600 point unit into a steaming pile of slag.

Just thought I should throw it out there...
Is the Avatar not already eternal? I have always played it that way, and the people at my flgs agree with me, seeing as he has the special rule Daemon. Daemon grants fearless, and immunity to instant death(according to Codex: Daemons).

As to EW for the wraithlord, I'd appriciate it. Having someone like a chaos lord with the blissgiver(daemon weapon that inflicts instant death) walk up and slice down three wraithlords in cc is kind of messed up.

*edited for spelling and formatting*