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Local players are complaining because i have begun to fly the speeder wing in my space marine army and other local SM players are doing the same. these are very effective, cheap units which are fast and maneuverable and pack a hard hit. when kitted out with two heavy bolters a squadron of three costs less than a devestator squad by a lot, and they can dish out significantly more firepower, and all the while they can move while firing. the multimelta/ heavyflamer is very viersitile, capable of burning xenos out of cover or popping a landraider. all variants are great for threatening objectives late game.
so whats not to like.
Chaos players and others have pointed out that the speeder wing packs a huge puch for the price. they are hard to melee effectively because they have often moved over 6", they can garner a cover save while moving on the fly, and when used in squadrons they can be pretty darn durable to enemy fire.
have you all faced similar complaints, or feel that these units are too good.?

Speeders are nice, but they are a lot more fragile than a squad of Devs, or even HB attack bikes.

* Squads of land speeders fall quickly due to hit allocation. 1/2 of penetrating hits will destroy a squadren speeder.
* AV 10 is very fragile. Bolters can even damage them.
* You can't move over 6" and fire both HB.

While they are good units, they are not unbalanced.

sennacherib wrote: Local players are complaining because i have begun to fly the speeder wing in my space marine army and other local SM players are doing the same. these are very effective, cheap units which are fast and maneuverable and pack a hard hit. when kitted out with two heavy bolters a squadron of three costs less than a devestator squad by a lot, and they can dish out significantly more firepower, and all the while they can move while firing. the multimelta/ heavyflamer is very viersitile, capable of burning xenos out of cover or popping a landraider. all variants are great for threatening objectives late game.
so whats not to like.
Chaos players and others have pointed out that the speeder wing packs a huge puch for the price. they are hard to melee effectively because they have often moved over 6", they can garner a cover save while moving on the fly, and when used in squadrons they can be pretty darn durable to enemy fire.
have you all faced similar complaints, or feel that these units are too good.?

Don't worry, people will always whine when someone breaks the status quo and beats them down because of it. Don't dumb down your game, tell them to up theirs.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:
Don't worry, people will always whine when someone breaks the status quo and beats them down because of it. Don't dumb down your game, tell them to up theirs.

QFT +1

They are just annoyed as they are unprepared to handle them. Keep using them and laugh in their faces mockingly at their excuse of why they are big whiney babies.

Atleast until they figure out which end of a Lascannon makes stuff die...

Landspeeders are fine, Vypers are overcosted. Hurr!

DarkHound wrote:Atleast until they figure out which end of a Lascannon makes stuff die...

Unless their luck with lascannons is like mine. Seriously it was so bad, when I played CSM, I stopped taking them because I always missed. It sucked


But seriously, screw them. They want to complain because you are LEGALLY kicking their asses, then thats something they need to work out. I think speeders are great for the very same reasons you mentioned. And for kicks, play a game or 2 where they are allowed to ram other vehicles. Its AWESOME ramming a tank at over 20 inches. And usually worth the laugh as the speeder usually explodes in the attempt.

Speeders are a balanced gamble. Fast and fierce, but fragile. OK in my book. Lots, lots, LOTS worse things out there to complain about.

I have been pretty disgusted with speeders, really. Mine always tend to be stunned or shaken half the time, and the other times somebody's multilalaser or something tends to blast them out of the sky.

The bright side is, it's how my opponent's Land Speeders tend to spend the game too.

My point is: No, they are not too beardy.

Im so glad that you all feel the same way that i do.
yes they are very fragile. my primary opponent that has been leading the charge against them plays slanneesh (sp?). i got tired of the fact that he has a higher init., more attacks in melee, better shooting with his sound marines and his troops are fearless. the fact that he also fields stuff that has ap 3 template of doom also makes me fear letting any of his units survive to get up close and personal. this necessitated out shooting him. thanks for the support.

He's just mad that you are altering the local metagame that currently places him at the top.

I commend you!

DarkHound wrote:Atleast until they figure out which end of a Lascannon makes stuff die...

It's the sharp end, duh!

Monster Rain wrote:He's just mad that you are altering the local metagame that currently places him at the top.

I commend you!

QFT.

Right so he's playing Slaanesh marines and he can't kill your speeders, despite having access to sonic blasters/blastmasters? which would easily blow up my FA 10 trukks?

They are not too beardy, he is just not dealing with them effectively and whining about it.

They are AV10...the balance to whole cool package.
IMO, they should start whining when you roll with Vulkan + Mass Attack Bike/Bike list...

Even then, don't pay them any mind.
Adapt or Die...nothing new here.

speeders are not overpowered... if they can't destroy your speeders, they're not trying. perhaps they should try shooting or assaulting them... that usually punks armor 10 vehicles when i try it.

I remember back in 4th ed, speeders were cheap (80 pts I think) and they could pretty much always receive that automatic glancing hits and still unload all of their fire power. I had some friends who thought they were a bit op. But, now they are a bit more expensive, rending got nerfed, you can't move more than 6" and still shoot everything anymore, you need to give up shooting to receive a cover save....

all these things add to a pretty normal unit, that is still effective and far from beardy imo.

sennacherib wrote:Im so glad that you all feel the same way that i do.
yes they are very fragile. my primary opponent that has been leading the charge against them plays slanneesh (sp?). i got tired of the fact that he has a higher init., more attacks in melee, better shooting with his sound marines and his troops are fearless. the fact that he also fields stuff that has ap 3 template of doom also makes me fear letting any of his units survive to get up close and personal. this necessitated out shooting him. thanks for the support.

Now he actually has to put in some ranged anti-tank and fill out his army to be a take all comers list instead of fine-tuned to whoop short-ranged marines. For killing speeders and rhinos an autocannon havoc squad is pretty solid (155 pts.) or a autocannon w/lascannon sponson predator (130). Your army becomes more complex and rounded, now he has to do the same. You both develop superior armies and become better players, sounds good to me.

thanks for all of the opinions.
i feel the same way. my foe is just refusing to change his play style that has worked for him in the past. i guess the moral of the story is evolve or be consumed.

Beardy is what people call your army when they can't think of a way to beat it or (more likely) they're too lazy to retool theirs in order to deal with it.

I have no problem with 'speeders. You'll beat me once, then next time we play I'll bring a Hydra.